Do we credit Valanciunas' development to Magloire?

sortpar · Post #21 » by **sortpar** » Tue Sep 9, 2014 10:50 pm

At Jonas' age, chances are there are a lot of people that can be included in his development - including Magloire.

I think from a Raptor fan perspective, I am just looking for him to progress into the player that I believe that he can be. Maybe that's unfair to Jonas, but he just seems to me that he can be an elite player in this league.

changes · Post #22 » by **changes** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:27 pm

His development was about as mediocre as Magloire. So I guess, yes.

alevirfe · Post #23 » by **alevirfe** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:14 pm

Bill Bayno!

yassillio · Post #24 » by **yassillio** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:07 pm

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:Haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate. All I know is he didn't have any post game before he met jamal mcgloire, FACT.

What post game are we talking about here ? Back the defender, dribble , dribble , dribble, lose the ball and look at the refs for not blowing the whistle ? Or is it the pump fake , back the defender up and do the running awkward hook shot ?

I am one of JV's biggest fans, but let's not get carried away.... He has indeed improved in terms of positioning , jumping straight up with his hands up, rebounding and defense. I hope working with hakeem over the summer will give him 2 good moves down low. Mix those with the pump fakes, put back dunks and running the court after a missed shot, we should have ourselves a 14.5 points and 9.5 rebounds per game. Not too shabby for a 3rd year player.

WiggOuts · Post #25 » by **WiggOuts** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:53 pm

I think just about any retired big man could do just as much with Val as Magloire has. Im not really a fan of Jamal. I kind of got the impression that he used the Raptors for his post NBA career, he only came here cause he knew no one else wanted him... He was only an all star because of a ridiculous lack of depth at the C and there were tons of injuries in the west. IMO Val will far surpass Magloires career status in a couple years, there was nothing about Magloires game that warranted him being and all star let alone an assistant coach...he hopped on for a free ride

Thespianoid · Post #26 » by **Thespianoid** » Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:35 pm

yassillio wrote:
GreatWhiteStiff wrote:Haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate. All I know is he didn't have any post game before he met jamal mcgloire, FACT.

What post game are we talking about here ? Back the defender, dribble , dribble , dribble, lose the ball and look at the refs for not blowing the whistle ? Or is it the pump fake , back the defender up and do the running awkward hook shot ?

He defaulted to what you described way too often last year, which was incredibly infuriating.

But he does undoubtedly have a post game. Every time something like this gets brought up, and it's pretty often in Jonas discussions, I have to link my post.

The problem is, he had little awareness for how the defense was playing him and would often play right into their hands.

RedX · Post #27 » by **RedX** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:22 am

EG73 · Post #28 » by **EG73** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:39 am

We don't even know if he 'developed'. Did he improved from season 2 to season 3 ? I don't think we can conclude from the FIBA tournament (I have to admit I didn't watched FIBA games). Wait until he plays NBA games before comparing with last season.

ballislife · Post #29 » by **ballislife** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:16 am

Guys... you do realize Magloire was an NBA All-Star right? He might've been a scrub when he came here, but he was a legit C in the NBA... there's a lot JV has probably learnt from him. Not just "anyone" can become an NBA All-star... it takes some serious skill and knowledge to go that far.

All in all, I credit part of JV's development (and future development) to Magloire. He's had a lot of influences (ex. Sabonis), but Magloire is the big man who showed him the ropes since entering the league as a rook.

BackOnDaBlock · Post #30 » by **BackOnDaBlock** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:31 am

he had a bad 2nd season so no1 deservs any credit this is the year tho if he dont play better specialy on D and if he keeps cryin wen he dnt get the ball even tho he sucks ima b pissd

Stolen Identity · Post #31 » by **Stolen Identity** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:52 am

BackOnDaBlock wrote:he had a bad 2nd season so no1 deservs any credit this is the year tho if he dont play better specialy on D and if he keeps cryin wen he dnt get the ball even tho he sucks ima b pissd

Bad ? Compared to what, his rookie year ?

BackOnDaBlock · Post #32 » by **BackOnDaBlock** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:54 am

Stolen Identity wrote:
BackOnDaBlock wrote:he had a bad 2nd season so no1 deservs any credit this is the year tho if he dont play better specialy on D and if he keeps cryin wen he dnt get the ball even tho he sucks ima b pissd

Bad ? Compared to what, his rookie year ?

i meant bad development wise he dint rlly get better frm his 1st year

Raps in 4 · Post #33 » by **Raps in 4** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:28 am

I'd go so far as to credit the entire team's success last season to Magloire.

Waylon Mercy · Post #34 » by **Waylon Mercy** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:12 am

Magloire is the the reason why humanity exists

Rhythm043 · Post #35 » by **Rhythm043** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:59 am

WiggOuts wrote:I think just about any retired big man could do just as much with Val as Magloire has. Im not really a fan of Jamal. I kind of got the impression that he used the Raptors for his post NBA career, he only came here cause he knew no one else wanted him... He was only an all star because of a ridiculous lack of depth at the C and there were tons of injuries in the west. IMO Val will far surpass Magloires career status in a couple years, there was nothing about Magloires game that warranted him being and all star let alone an assistant coach...he hopped on for a free ride

How do you really know how good Magloire is working with players? None of us are there day to day to see and dont really have inside information on it. Also, I know he's a Kentucky guy like Casey but I doubt he can really just "hop on for a free ride". He must be good at something and I am sure if he wasn't, Masai would have sent him packing already. I am sure he could be a coach somewhere else like Miami with Pat Riley, he seemed to like him. The year he made the all star team he averages 14 and 10. That was pretty good numbers for a C that season.

BackseatBoss · Post #36 » by **BackseatBoss** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:37 am

BackOnDaBlock wrote:
Stolen Identity wrote:
BackOnDaBlock wrote:he had a bad 2nd season so no1 deservs any credit this is the year tho if he dont play better specialy on D and if he keeps cryin wen he dnt get the ball even tho he sucks ima b pissd

Bad ? Compared to what, his rookie year ?

i meant bad development wise he dint rlly get better frm his 1st year

Are you just playing dumb right now? His defense improved drastically, his rebounding was much better, his post game was much better, his decision making overall became much better. The only things he regressed in is blocked shots and quickness, but overall he was definitely a much better player in year 2 than in year 1.

Thespianoid · Post #37 » by **Thespianoid** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:38 am

BackseatBoss wrote:
BackOnDaBlock wrote:
Stolen Identity wrote:
Bad ? Compared to what, his rookie year ?

i meant bad development wise he dint rlly get better frm his 1st year

Are you just playing dumb right now? His defense improved drastically, his rebounding was much better, his post game was much better, his decision making overall became much better. The only things he regressed in is blocked shots and quickness, but overall he was definitely a much better player in year 2 than in year 1.

I would count his post game in the list of regressions. He gained a left/right hook, but that's about all he added to his arsenal during year 2. The turnaround jumpers, the baseline spins, the dropsteps, his favorite running hook, those he all had his 2nd year with Rytas and during year 1 with the Raptors.

Jonas was actually smarter and more patient in the post during his rookie season. Fewer instances of ridiculous, unnecessary pump fakes, aimless dribbling/backing down/general hesitation, and forcing of the same moves into the teeth of the defense. He also was more willing to pass out of a post touch once he began his dribble.

I think he's regained some of that patience and decision making to go along with slightly regained mobility, judging by his play during the FIBA tournament, but we'll see how he does when the NBA starts up again.

yassillio · Post #38 » by **yassillio** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:13 pm

Thespianoid wrote:
yassillio wrote:
GreatWhiteStiff wrote:Haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate. All I know is he didn't have any post game before he met jamal mcgloire, FACT.

What post game are we talking about here ? Back the defender, dribble , dribble , dribble, lose the ball and look at the refs for not blowing the whistle ? Or is it the pump fake , back the defender up and do the running awkward hook shot ?

He defaulted to what you described way too often last year, which was incredibly infuriating.

But he does undoubtedly have a post game. Every time something like this gets brought up, and it's pretty often in Jonas discussions, I have to link my post.

The problem is, he had little awareness for how the defense was playing him and would often play right into their hands.

Remember when the traditional big man in the NBA needed 5 years to develop ? His reaction to the D, will only get better from here. I want him to learn to be patient, suck the defense in, and make the simple pass. I hate when he does his running awkward jump hook and passes it when he's left his feet already.

I have no doubt he will turn into a machine eventually, but like I said, the short corner jumper, 2 good post moves, P&R, running the floor should get him to be 19 &11 player in a few years.

La patience mes amis...la patience

BackOnDaBlock · Post #39 » by **BackOnDaBlock** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:46 pm

Post #40 » by **pbj** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:05 pm

BackseatBoss wrote:
BackOnDaBlock wrote:
Stolen Identity wrote:
Bad ? Compared to what, his rookie year ?

i meant bad development wise he dint rlly get better frm his 1st year

Are you just playing dumb right now? His defense improved drastically, his rebounding was much better, his post game was much better, his decision making overall became much better. The only things he regressed in is blocked shots and quickness, but overall he was definitely a much better player in year 2 than in year 1.

LOL ur so mentall challenged