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Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us?

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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#141 » by G R E Y » Thu Oct 8, 2015 4:46 pm

Northface82 wrote:
GREY 1769 wrote:Of course DD hopes to re-sign with the Raps. He may get money elsewhere, but on what other team does he get first option as 'best player', (which he's not even that on the Raps right now)?


Lakers, after Kobe steps down? It's a possibility.
(btw, I also thinks he re-signs in T.O.)

If the Lakers give DD the kind of money he'll be seeking and want him in Kobe's role, they can have him. At least they won't be able to say 'Didn't see that coming' when he chucks with wanton abandon or dribbles into double teams. I don't see Lakers making this move unless they strike out with other prime targets. FO people in the league know DD is not one of those players.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#142 » by Naija Boy » Thu Oct 8, 2015 5:16 pm

jeeves123 wrote:
Hero wrote:
jeeves123 wrote:I'm not worried he'll pull a Bosh on us. I'm praying he'll pull a Bosh on us.


..and then what?
Declining Lowry, declining Carroll, no rebounds Pat and defensive liability, no passing JV gonna do something worthwhile? They gonna make Toronto a FA destination?


The money it frees up will easily fill the hole DeRozan will leave.

DeRozan is extremely replaceable on the free agent market for a lot less money. How important is the 2-guard position anyway anymore? Who's the last 2-guard to lead a team to a title? Wade, 2006? Don't give me Kobe in 2009-2010. Lakers won because of Gasol, Odom and Bynum, they won in spite of Kobe. Anyway, it's a long time ago, and no one is confusing Kobe and Wade with DeRozan.

Bottom line is that paying slightly above-average players franchise player money is a sure way to guarantee extended treadmill 40 win seasons, and no one wants that.

Lowry is at $12 million, and he's infinitely more valuable to this team than DeRozan so that would put DeRozan at $8-9 million tops.


DeRozan is not easily replaceable in free agency in 2016.

Horford and Durant are the two guys we have any kind of chance at, who would legitimately upgrade the team. After that you're looking at Batum as a side-grade, where he gives you something different but doesn't really move the needle forwards or backwards.

After that you get a bunch of wing players who are not as good as DeRozan. Either they're inefficient in medium-sized roles, only capable of being efficient in small roles, just plain bad or some combination otherwise. If we walk into 2016-17 with Eric Gordon, Luol Deng, Jeff Green, OJ Mayo, Courtney Lee, either Crawford, Evan Turner, Randy Foye or someone of the like instead of DeMar, we are going to be a worse team, period. Those players cannot handle the usage does and thus cannot take pressure off Lowry. Converting him into the #1 option, which is something he has shown he cannot sustain efficiently over the course of a season.

And as for the last part about DD being worth 8-9M because Lowry is making 12M. I strongly urge you to read this thread and gain an understanding of the cap. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1409151#start_here

(Sorry for the bold but it's getting annoying repeating this 5 times a day.).

Lowry's contract was signed with the CURRENT cap environment in mind (under a ~67M cap last year), because only the last guaranteed year of his deal (next year) will be within the new cap environment, and then he'll sign a new (and probably his last big) contract in 2017 under a 108M cap.

He signed for a little under 20% of the cap, so if he were to get a new deal next season it would be worth ~20M per year. And remember that the 12M per year for Lowry was actually considered to be a steal at the time. Based on this, saying DeRozan is worth 8-9M next year is borderline idiotic, as you would likely have trouble even signing Courtney Lee for that kind of money in the offseason. That's less than 10% of the cap in 2016-17 and isn't even starter money.

UNDERSTAND the new cap environment before speaking on what you think players are worth.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#143 » by jeeves123 » Fri Oct 9, 2015 12:57 am

Naija Boy wrote:
jeeves123 wrote:
Hero wrote:
..and then what?
Declining Lowry, declining Carroll, no rebounds Pat and defensive liability, no passing JV gonna do something worthwhile? They gonna make Toronto a FA destination?


The money it frees up will easily fill the hole DeRozan will leave.

DeRozan is extremely replaceable on the free agent market for a lot less money. How important is the 2-guard position anyway anymore? Who's the last 2-guard to lead a team to a title? Wade, 2006? Don't give me Kobe in 2009-2010. Lakers won because of Gasol, Odom and Bynum, they won in spite of Kobe. Anyway, it's a long time ago, and no one is confusing Kobe and Wade with DeRozan.

Bottom line is that paying slightly above-average players franchise player money is a sure way to guarantee extended treadmill 40 win seasons, and no one wants that.

Lowry is at $12 million, and he's infinitely more valuable to this team than DeRozan so that would put DeRozan at $8-9 million tops.


DeRozan is not easily replaceable in free agency in 2016.

Horford and Durant are the two guys we have any kind of chance at, who would legitimately upgrade the team. After that you're looking at Batum as a side-grade, where he gives you something different but doesn't really move the needle forwards or backwards.

After that you get a bunch of wing players who are not as good as DeRozan. Either they're inefficient in medium-sized roles, only capable of being efficient in small roles, just plain bad or some combination otherwise. If we walk into 2016-17 with Eric Gordon, Luol Deng, Jeff Green, OJ Mayo, Courtney Lee, either Crawford, Evan Turner, Randy Foye or someone of the like instead of DeMar, we are going to be a worse team, period. Those players cannot handle the usage does and thus cannot take pressure off Lowry. Converting him into the #1 option, which is something he has shown he cannot sustain efficiently over the course of a season.

And as for the last part about DD being worth 8-9M because Lowry is making 12M. I strongly urge you to read this thread and gain an understanding of the cap. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1409151#start_here

(Sorry for the bold but it's getting annoying repeating this 5 times a day.).

Lowry's contract was signed with the CURRENT cap environment in mind (under a ~67M cap last year), because only the last guaranteed year of his deal (next year) will be within the new cap environment, and then he'll sign a new (and probably his last big) contract in 2017 under a 108M cap.

He signed for a little under 20% of the cap, so if he were to get a new deal next season it would be worth ~20M per year. And remember that the 12M per year for Lowry was actually considered to be a steal at the time. Based on this, saying DeRozan is worth 8-9M next year is borderline idiotic, as you would likely have trouble even signing Courtney Lee for that kind of money in the offseason. That's less than 10% of the cap in 2016-17 and isn't even starter money.

UNDERSTAND the new cap environment before speaking on what you think players are worth.


I UNDERSTAND the new cap environment. Just because you have more money to spend that means you should spend it stupidly?

That's like getting a raise from $20 an hour to $35 an hour and buying something more expensive when something less expensive does the exact same job. You should spend that extra $15 an hour on something that makes your situation better. We have seen the ceiling of the Raptors with DeRozan playing a big role. 2 straight first round losses. Is it really worth giving DeRozan more than he's worth just because you can?

By the way, I'd rather have Courtney Lee than DeRozan and I'm being dead serious. He can shoot the 3 and defend. That's all you need from a 2-guard.

What are you talking about with usage? Can you define that for me? If usage is DeRozan dribbling off his foot and pounding the ball for 20 seconds then throwing up a deep 2 which clangs off the back iron, I'm gonna throw up.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#144 » by Naija Boy » Fri Oct 9, 2015 7:57 am

jeeves123 wrote:
Naija Boy wrote:
jeeves123 wrote:
The money it frees up will easily fill the hole DeRozan will leave.

DeRozan is extremely replaceable on the free agent market for a lot less money. How important is the 2-guard position anyway anymore? Who's the last 2-guard to lead a team to a title? Wade, 2006? Don't give me Kobe in 2009-2010. Lakers won because of Gasol, Odom and Bynum, they won in spite of Kobe. Anyway, it's a long time ago, and no one is confusing Kobe and Wade with DeRozan.

Bottom line is that paying slightly above-average players franchise player money is a sure way to guarantee extended treadmill 40 win seasons, and no one wants that.

Lowry is at $12 million, and he's infinitely more valuable to this team than DeRozan so that would put DeRozan at $8-9 million tops.


DeRozan is not easily replaceable in free agency in 2016.

Horford and Durant are the two guys we have any kind of chance at, who would legitimately upgrade the team. After that you're looking at Batum as a side-grade, where he gives you something different but doesn't really move the needle forwards or backwards.

After that you get a bunch of wing players who are not as good as DeRozan. Either they're inefficient in medium-sized roles, only capable of being efficient in small roles, just plain bad or some combination otherwise. If we walk into 2016-17 with Eric Gordon, Luol Deng, Jeff Green, OJ Mayo, Courtney Lee, either Crawford, Evan Turner, Randy Foye or someone of the like instead of DeMar, we are going to be a worse team, period. Those players cannot handle the usage does and thus cannot take pressure off Lowry. Converting him into the #1 option, which is something he has shown he cannot sustain efficiently over the course of a season.

And as for the last part about DD being worth 8-9M because Lowry is making 12M. I strongly urge you to read this thread and gain an understanding of the cap. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1409151#start_here

(Sorry for the bold but it's getting annoying repeating this 5 times a day.).

Lowry's contract was signed with the CURRENT cap environment in mind (under a ~67M cap last year), because only the last guaranteed year of his deal (next year) will be within the new cap environment, and then he'll sign a new (and probably his last big) contract in 2017 under a 108M cap.

He signed for a little under 20% of the cap, so if he were to get a new deal next season it would be worth ~20M per year. And remember that the 12M per year for Lowry was actually considered to be a steal at the time. Based on this, saying DeRozan is worth 8-9M next year is borderline idiotic, as you would likely have trouble even signing Courtney Lee for that kind of money in the offseason. That's less than 10% of the cap in 2016-17 and isn't even starter money.

UNDERSTAND the new cap environment before speaking on what you think players are worth.


I UNDERSTAND the new cap environment. Just because you have more money to spend that means you should spend it stupidly?

That's like getting a raise from $20 an hour to $35 an hour and buying something more expensive when something less expensive does the exact same job. You should spend that extra $15 an hour on something that makes your situation better. We have seen the ceiling of the Raptors with DeRozan playing a big role. 2 straight first round losses. Is it really worth giving DeRozan more than he's worth just because you can?

By the way, I'd rather have Courtney Lee than DeRozan and I'm being dead serious. He can shoot the 3 and defend. That's all you need from a 2-guard.

What are you talking about with usage? Can you define that for me? If usage is DeRozan dribbling off his foot and pounding the ball for 20 seconds then throwing up a deep 2 which clangs off the back iron, I'm gonna throw up.


You don't seem to understand actually.

First of all, if DeRozan gets an 18-20M per year deal. Yes he's getting a "raise", but in reality we're paying him about the same proportion of the cap that we paid him on his last extension. And no it doesn't handicap the team moving forwards. We wouldn't be able to sign anyone in 2016 (DeRozan is probably a top 5 free agent next year anyway, and if you aren't getting KD or Horford... then you bring him back), but in 2017 (a deeper FA class) we'd have plenty of cap space.

As for Courtney Lee over DD. Do you know why Courtney Lee works well on the Grizzlies? Because they have two dominant post players who can get 20 on any given night. On top of that they have a starting PG who is at least as good, if not better than Lowry. We are not in that situation. Swap out DD for Courtney Lee and all of a sudden we have ONE player on the roster who can create offence (Lowry) and he's going to be a 30 year old expiring in 2016-17

It's just asset management. If you can't get a better replacement for DD, you bring him back for a reasonable deal and WORST CASE you have a trade chip if things don't pan out, or you want to go a different direction. If you let DD walk and sign Courtney Lee because you're mad about DD not being a good #1 option, you've made the team worse and lost a trade asset (as no one is going to give up squat in a deal for a mid-tier 3+D SG).


Edit: Let me make the numbers a bit more clear.

Let's just say we give DeRozan a deal that's at around 20M per year. Here's what our situation looks like in 2017 FA

DD: 20M
Lowry cap hold: 18M
JV: 14M
DC: 14M
Bruno: 2M
Delon: 2M
2016 NYK/DEN Pick: 3M
Roster Charges: 2.5M
Total: 75.5M

The cap would be 108M, meaning we'd have ~33M cap space and enough room to offer the mid-max with DeRozan, Lowry, DC, JV on the books (i.e. 4 starters signed) and 3 of our best prospects in Bruno, Delon and whoever we draft with the Knicks/Nuggets pick.

So re-signing DeRozan does not handicap us in any way.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#145 » by Danchan » Fri Oct 9, 2015 9:03 am

[quote][/quote]Lets use derozans 20 mil and find someone else.

I dont know if this new player would work out, what i do know is derozan doesnt work.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#146 » by Naija Boy » Fri Oct 9, 2015 9:45 am

Danchan wrote:
Lets use derozans 20 mil and find someone else.

I dont know if this new player would work out, what i do know is derozan doesnt work.


If you're not getting a surefire upgrade this is a brainless and pointless move.

With DeRozan there are certainties that benefit the team:
- He doesn't get injured
- He should have relatively good trade value
- He's about to entire his prime
- He can put up 20ppg at close to league average efficiency, making him a volume scorer and not a chucker
- He plays well with Lowry, and makes the game easier for him
- He literally has zero off-court baggage.

Now those things do not mean keep DeRozan at all costs. But it does mean keep DeRozan unless you're getting an upgrade. There's no point swapping him out for someone else just so the team can stay where it's at or potentially get worse.

Plus now that he's free from injury and we're (hopefully) not going to run iso after iso this year, if DeRozan can get back to his 2013-14 form, it's likely he'll maintain high trade value even over the life of a 20M/annum deal. Meaning that if a trade becomes available for a superior talent he can be used as an enticing piece in a package, or if we tear it down we could secure several picks or prospects in exchange for him.

Going out and doing some 2 for 1 garbage bin nonsense with the 20M (like signing Courtney Lee and another role player) because we don't like DD would be idiotic.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#147 » by tsherkin » Fri Oct 9, 2015 11:35 am

Naija Boy wrote:With DeRozan there are certainties that benefit the team:
- He doesn't get injured


Bad timing on the heels of an injury-plagued season, though. :D

- He should have relatively good trade value
- He's about to entire his prime


Hmmm. To the first, I'm leery of assigning trade value to him at this point, especially right after the worst season he's had in recent memory, raw PPG average aside.

- He can put up 20ppg at close to league average efficiency, making him a volume scorer and not a chucker


Hmm. No, actually. As a below-average-efficiency volume shooter, he's definitely shooting way too much and this isn't really a selling point for him. He's actually blowing around 30% of our possessions with inefficient offense that only looks not as bad as it could because he's also quite good about not turning it over. DeRozan's typically below league average in both efficiency and ORTG, and very frequently a net negative on offense by OBPM as well.

His offense actually isn't a major selling point, leastwise not in most of his seasons. If he's able to return to 2014 form, then we have a reasonably different conversation though, I'll grant you that. That year, his playmaking was coupled with near-average efficiency to the point that he was a net positive for us on offense for reasons other than making Lowry not have to score 20 ppg.

- He plays well with Lowry, and makes the game easier for him


Yes, when both our healthy and clicking, our team looks quite a bit better than when one or the other (or both!) are banged up, for sure.

Now those things do not mean keep DeRozan at all costs. But it does mean keep DeRozan unless you're getting an upgrade. There's no point swapping him out for someone else just so the team can stay where it's at or potentially get worse.


Yeah, unless there's an upgrade on the horizon, the hope that he'll play like he did in the RS two years ago leaves it not a good move to just trade/release him for the sake of doing it.

we're (hopefully) not going to run iso after iso this year,


After that being all of what Casey has run for four years now, I'm not holding my breath. We're finally ZOMG talking about maybe trying to ICE pick and rolls and altering our overall defensive strategies, the notion of this attempt being revolutionary for Casey as we begin the year which marks his presence on our team for half a decade. This is not a man who changes much, nor quickly.


if DeRozan can get back to his 2013-14 form, it's likely he'll maintain high trade value even over the life of a 20M/annum deal. Meaning that if a trade becomes available for a superior talent he can be used as an enticing piece in a package, or if we tear it down we could secure several picks or prospects in exchange for him. I strongly suspect we'll see a lot of isos (as usual) and a lot of 1-4, 2-4 PnR.

Lacking Lou Williams, though, I suppose you could say we'll see a reduction in isos maybe (depending on where his shots go), but we'll likely also be poorer on offense for his absence in the regular season.


Going out and doing some 2 for 1 garbage bin nonsense with the 20M (like signing Courtney Lee and another role player) because we don't like DD would be idiotic.


Mmm. Courtney Lee would actually be a good addition. On his own, he wouldn't be sufficient to replace DeRozan, but don't forget you're talking about a 40% 3pt shooter on ~ 3PA/g. That has a lot of value to our type of offense. You find a second guy so you can split the offense between two players and that doesn't seem so unpalatable any longer. Had we kept Lou, it would have looked even better, IMO.

The thing about DeRozan is that we use him to take pressure from Lowry. Most people seem to believe he's our lead on offense, but he's very clearly just a guy soaking up possessions. Still, even with him generally doing a poor job of using those possessions, it allows us to leverage Lowry's wicked productivity on O at a reasonable usage rate, so we would need to find a way to totally replace DeRozan at an equivalent level in order to move him. Lee would be a start, but the second guy would have to be reasonably decent as well, and then we're still talking about maybe running in place or getting a little worse (because DD handled a lot of iso sets, and a spot-up shooter can be used only so often).

I wouldn't have minded if we replaced DeRozan with Lee and, say, Afflalo, and we committed to running a lot more half-court sets where we move our 2 guard around without the ball for catch-and-shoot while we see what's going on at the point, and I'd like us to let the dogs out and run a little more, too (just push and see, then pull it back if there's nothing instead of forcing it).


But yes, you're right: there's no need for a hasty move. The TYPES of players we could go after to replace DeRozan will be available all the way up until the deadline, so there's no rush to do that. And we still have to wonder if Casey would go out and use them properly or not.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#148 » by theonlyeastcoastrapsfan » Fri Oct 9, 2015 12:06 pm

Im worried they will pay him too much because they don't want to let him go for nothing in the same year the Lowry is able to opt out at the end of the season. I don't want to end up at the end of the day just keeping the players we have now, we need to have a way to get better. How much space do we really have next year if we resign DeMar to a 20m or so deal, especially given that Lowry will soon be looking to cash in as well.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#149 » by Naija Boy » Fri Oct 9, 2015 2:56 pm

Stopped reading your post Tsherkin as soon as you said he blows 30% of our possessions. So many things wrong with that.

First of all, he doesn't use 30% of our possessions. He uses 28% of our possessions while he's on the court, which is < 75% of the game. So he actually uses about 20% of our possessions.

Secondly you're implying that he blows EVERY possession where he touches the ball which is just flat out incorrect.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#150 » by Naija Boy » Fri Oct 9, 2015 3:00 pm

I also don't really see the point of replacing DeRozan with Lee and Afflalo like you suggested. First of all, signing Lee and trading for Afflalo would likely cost just as much per year if not more than signing DeRozan. Secondly, it doesn't move the needle much. And thirdly both of those guys are ~30 (Afflalo is 29 actually, 30 in a few days), meaning not only do they start off with mediocre trade value, but it will continue to decline.

Whether you agree that DeRozan's a positive impact player or not, it is essentially a fact that 2013-14 DeRozan (if he can get back to that form) is a high value trade asset. So mortgaging that asset to sign two role players that barely improve the team if at all just makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Edit: Also I really think Lee's impact as a shooter is being overstated. Yes he makes them at a high clip, but he only takes < 3 3 pointers per game. He has NEVER even made 100 3s in a season, and last year was his first year actually making 90. Hell in DeMar's last healthy season (2013-14) he only made 8 less threes than Lee did (albeit at a lower clip) so it's not like we're talking about some prolific 3pt shooter here. Not to mention last year Lee was at a slightly above average TS% in a minuscule role with the Grizzlies where wing players have a TON of space because of how dominant they are inside.

I would argue that Ross is far more dangerous of a 3PT shooter than Courtney Lee. Has taken around 5 a game over the last two years and made roughly 2 at a 38.5% clip.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#151 » by And1+2 » Fri Oct 9, 2015 3:17 pm

Meh, never liked Bosh when he was here (IMO his game jumped leaps and bounds after he left Toronto, but he was asked to do way to much here and had to fill the shoes of VC with a not so stellar cast, so maybe my expectations were slightly unreasonable). I don't really care that much for DD either, his defence in particular is a huge liability and has been since he entered the league and he doesn't know how to be effective in a non-ISO offensive system - which is where the league is heading.

Regardless, Derozan will probably leave Toronto with class and won't exactly leave us hanging if he does...

TLDR: I guess I don't care.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#152 » by dante9988 » Fri Oct 9, 2015 3:28 pm

would a player like avery bradley be better for us?
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#153 » by theonlyeastcoastrapsfan » Fri Oct 9, 2015 3:41 pm

At what point would we expect DeMar to be able know the difference between a good shot and bad shot, or do we assume he already knows and either doesn't care, or thinks he should take it anyway?
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#154 » by LastNameEver » Fri Oct 9, 2015 4:05 pm

you want to pay wealthfares man richard hamilton 90 mil. let him go
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#155 » by Vlade Divac » Fri Oct 9, 2015 4:42 pm

Omg I would be happiest fan ever. I am worried that Masai will give him max which he counts on


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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#156 » by agentzero2010 » Fri Oct 9, 2015 4:53 pm

anyone worried that DeRozan has played like poop in the first 3 preseason games?
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#157 » by Volcano » Fri Oct 9, 2015 5:01 pm

Naija Boy wrote:With DeRozan there are certainties that benefit the team:
- He doesn't get injured
- He should have relatively good trade value
- He's about to entire his prime
- He can put up 20ppg at close to league average efficiency, making him a volume scorer and not a chucker
- He plays well with Lowry, and makes the game easier for him
- He literally has zero off-court baggage.


wth??? why don't you list something that he does that actually helps the team on the court?

A lot of players can play well with Lowry. Lou Will and GV took on some of the load last season too..now they're both gone.

- DD is a good FT drawer
- He's able to follow a defensive system
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#158 » by DarkSaturn » Fri Oct 9, 2015 5:34 pm

Have a hard time blaming DeRozan for making a run to LA when he has the chance. So many obvious benefits, home town, huge market, nice weather...etc. Maybe more important though, it will synergize with his one truly elite skill - driving into congestion and looking to get fouled. It wasn't until his fifth season with the Raptors that he was finally able to consistently get these calls, by comparison Harden started to get those calls in bunches starting in the 3rd season and hit massive numbers in season 4.

Maybe I'm jaded from the too many years of seeing terrible calls and league apologies, but I see DeRozan in LA going from 7.5 FTA per 36 up to 9.5+ range like Harden.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#159 » by Danchan » Fri Oct 9, 2015 6:35 pm

DarkSaturn wrote:Have a hard time blaming DeRozan for making a run to LA when he has the chance. So many obvious benefits, home town, huge market, nice weather...etc. Maybe more important though, it will synergize with his one truly elite skill - driving into congestion and looking to get fouled. It wasn't until his fifth season with the Raptors that he was finally able to consistently get these calls, by comparison Harden started to get those calls in bunches starting in the 3rd season and hit massive numbers in season 4.

Maybe I'm jaded from the too many years of seeing terrible calls and league apologies, but I see DeRozan in LA going from 7.5 FTA per 36 up to 9.5+ range like Harden.


and he'd still be half the player harden is. harden before his third season was a lockdown defender with already great efficiency on offense.
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Re: Anyone worried DeRozan will pull a Bosh on us? 

Post#160 » by Naija Boy » Fri Oct 9, 2015 7:48 pm

Danchan wrote:
DarkSaturn wrote:Have a hard time blaming DeRozan for making a run to LA when he has the chance. So many obvious benefits, home town, huge market, nice weather...etc. Maybe more important though, it will synergize with his one truly elite skill - driving into congestion and looking to get fouled. It wasn't until his fifth season with the Raptors that he was finally able to consistently get these calls, by comparison Harden started to get those calls in bunches starting in the 3rd season and hit massive numbers in season 4.

Maybe I'm jaded from the too many years of seeing terrible calls and league apologies, but I see DeRozan in LA going from 7.5 FTA per 36 up to 9.5+ range like Harden.


and he'd still be half the player harden is. harden before his third season was a lockdown defender with already great efficiency on offense.


Ok first of all I agree DD is nowhere near as good as Harden.

However.... on which planet was Harden a lockdown defender? Dude sometimes I don't even understand what you post. It's like you post whatever you want when it comes to criticizing DD. Harden is one of the most criticized players in the league for his defence and has never been a lockdown defender (or anything close) at any point in his career.

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