Perspective

[Steelo Green]

People continuously say the same stuff. "We are the same as last year, blah blah blah"

Well, again, no we're not, and the numbers even prove the additions are making an impact and we are a different team on the whole.

Hell I don't think we have ever had a perfect backup PG, a swingman who can actually guard some of the best wings in the world, and smart veteran presences who make open mid range jumpers.

WE ARE THE SAME, YES WE ARE, SAME SAME SAME, gets annoying. Either speak regarding what's actually happening or not at all.

"First round exit, guaranteed, same problems as last year", is simply just baiting to get emotional responses or likes on posts vs actual discussion.

And no, this does not mean I think they are a contender.

[PurpleTrees]

Need to ban the repetitive posters. We get it, you dont like the team.

Aren't most people repetitive with their opinions? The opposite of that is wishy-washy isn't it? Or do you just want the ones you don't agree with banned?

No, most people aren't this repetitive with their opinions. Its fine to say it once a while but as we have seen on here, its the same posters that keep repeating themselves and hijacking threads.

[dalton749]

I hope being on the road that much to start the year has helped to boost the team chemistry, and with no hot start they aren't over confident.

[Mikistan]

People are still pointing at the regular season record as validation?

Yeah sure, and last year's team was the best Raptors in franchise history.

[Steelo Green]

Need to ban the repetitive posters. We get it, you dont like the team.

Aren't most people repetitive with their opinions? The opposite of that is wishy-washy isn't it? Or do you just want the ones you don't agree with banned?

No, most people aren't this repetitive with their opinions. Its fine to say it once a while but as we have seen on here, its the same posters that keep repeating themselves and hijacking threads.

Agreed, and those opinions go with the wind, ie win or loss.

A loss on RGM say even against the Warriors, is indicative of our future success in a 82 game season.

I wish people could look at things with perspective and holistically.

[Steelo Green]

People are still pointing at the regular season record as validation?

Yeah sure, and last year's team was the best Raptors in franchise history.

What about the other plethora of points made? ORTG? DRTG? SOS? Improved D? Changes to personnel? Shall I go on?

[Latrell]

People are still pointing at the regular season record as validation?

Yeah sure, and last year's team was the best Raptors in franchise history.

Well , the playoffs aren't here yet are they?

It's a discussion board, are we not allowed to discuss how the team is doing currently based on the season so far?

[The_Hater]

People are still pointing at the regular season record as validation?

Yeah sure, and last year's team was the best Raptors in franchise history.

What about the other plethora of points made? ORTG? DRTG? SOS? Improved D? Changes to personnel? Shall I go on?

All good points but of course the counter argument is the small sample size. i think the Raps have played well overall so far and the stats in the OP support that but the season is always full of peaks and valleys. And it doesn't necessarily mean that they're ready to compete with the elite of the EC. That appears to be the point that many of the detractors are trying to make. The Raps started red hot out of the gate last season too then posted a losing record the final 4 months and bowed out quietly in the playoffs.

[Steelo Green]

People are still pointing at the regular season record as validation?

Yeah sure, and last year's team was the best Raptors in franchise history.

What about the other plethora of points made? ORTG? DRTG? SOS? Improved D? Changes to personnel? Shall I go on?

All good points but of course the counter argument is the small sample size. i think the Raps have played well overall so far and the stats in the OP support that but the season is always full of peaks and valleys. And it doesn't necessarily mean that they're ready to compete with the elite of the EC. That appears to be the point that many of the detractors are trying to make. The Raps started red hot out of the gate last season too then posted a losing record the final 4 months and bowed out quietly in the playoffs.

I agree regarding the sample size to a degree, but what I vehemently argue is that this is a completely different team in the way they play on both sides of the ball, and they had some pretty big upgrades in certain areas.

Our D has regressed yes, bench scoring is down, but given that our D has improved so much, it was a trade off that was easily worth it.

I do think the O will pick up from the bench. Terrence isn't this bad of a player, he has just had a rough patch, and got injured right in the middle of it all. Plus CoJo is still hesitant to shoot the 3, even though I really believe he has the ability to do so.

You and I both know my friend how last year went with our O. The ISO ball isn't gone necessarily, but it has decreased, and the bench is different now with systematic offense and not those end of the quarter blow my mind threes by Lou every time.

Again, I think we are headed for more of a 2013-2014 type season, where we were better on both sides, and on the cusp of finally breaking out of the first round.

IIRC the Raptors were bottom 5-10 in D last year (again early this year, but even last season we were very poor on that side to start the year, unlike this year), and no team historically has won a round being that poor on that side of the ball.

We are a better equipped team for the post season, of course I am not dubbing this some finals contender, but I do believe we will go 6-7 games in a first round, depending on matchup, and could take at least one step forward.

Here's hoping, of course, I can't predict the future, but the signs are positive and a different positive than last season.

[sca]

People are still pointing at the regular season record as validation?

Yeah sure, and last year's team was the best Raptors in franchise history.

I'm really mad that they still haven't won any 2016 play-off games.

[vini_vidi_vici]

Did you guys know CoJo is leading the team in % of finishes of ISOs? 5th in the L at 19.0%?? Why does he (edit: not) get the Lou treatment?? Both were/are highly efficient in them, despite the bulk??

Did you know that at .88OPPP ISO finishes is higher than PnR Ball/PostUps? And just .01 less than SpotUps (generally the most efficient of high volume finishes)??

Did you know last year in the POs, ISOs was one of 2 different (among 11) finishes the Raps actually improved on over their RS finishes?? And was a top team in them during the POs??

I dont know why ppl are so adverse to them, but carry on.

[bluerap23]

Does anyone believe this team is likely to win a round in the playoffs? There is a very good chance this team wins 50 games. There is also a very good chance they get swept in the first round.

[The_Hater]

What about the other plethora of points made? ORTG? DRTG? SOS? Improved D? Changes to personnel? Shall I go on?

All good points but of course the counter argument is the small sample size. i think the Raps have played well overall so far and the stats in the OP support that but the season is always full of peaks and valleys. And it doesn't necessarily mean that they're ready to compete with the elite of the EC. That appears to be the point that many of the detractors are trying to make. The Raps started red hot out of the gate last season too then posted a losing record the final 4 months and bowed out quietly in the playoffs.

I agree regarding the sample size to a degree, but what I vehemently argue is that this is a completely different team in the way they play on both sides of the ball, and they had some pretty big upgrades in certain areas.

Our D has regressed yes, bench scoring is down, but given that our D has improved so much, it was a trade off that was easily worth it.

I do think the O will pick up from the bench. Terrence isn't this bad of a player, he has just had a rough patch, and got injured right in the middle of it all. Plus CoJo is still hesitant to shoot the 3, even though I really believe he has the ability to do so.

You and I both know my friend how last year went with our O. The ISO ball isn't gone necessarily, but it has decreased, and the bench is different now with systematic offense and not those end of the quarter blow my mind threes by Lou every time.

Again, I think we are headed for more of a 2013-2014 type season, where we were better on both sides, and on the cusp of finally breaking out of the first round.

IIRC the Raptors were bottom 5-10 in D last year (again early this year, but even last season we were very poor on that side to start the year, unlike this year), and no team historically has won a round being that poor on that side of the ball.

We are a better equipped team for the post season, of course I am not dubbing this some finals contender, but I do believe we will go 6-7 games in a first round, depending on matchup, and could take at least one step forward.

Here's hoping, of course, I can't predict the future, but the signs are positive and a different positive than last season.

And your argument/opinion has people that don't agree with it. Overall, I don't think the talent is much different than last season, there's just more defensive minded players. I still don't think this team wins as many games as the they did the past 2 seasons.

[Steelo Green]

All good points but of course the counter argument is the small sample size. i think the Raps have played well overall so far and the stats in the OP support that but the season is always full of peaks and valleys. And it doesn't necessarily mean that they're ready to compete with the elite of the EC. That appears to be the point that many of the detractors are trying to make. The Raps started red hot out of the gate last season too then posted a losing record the final 4 months and bowed out quietly in the playoffs.

I agree regarding the sample size to a degree, but what I vehemently argue is that this is a completely different team in the way they play on both sides of the ball, and they had some pretty big upgrades in certain areas.

Our D has regressed yes, bench scoring is down, but given that our D has improved so much, it was a trade off that was easily worth it.

I do think the O will pick up from the bench. Terrence isn't this bad of a player, he has just had a rough patch, and got injured right in the middle of it all. Plus CoJo is still hesitant to shoot the 3, even though I really believe he has the ability to do so.

You and I both know my friend how last year went with our O. The ISO ball isn't gone necessarily, but it has decreased, and the bench is different now with systematic offense and not those end of the quarter blow my mind threes by Lou every time.

Again, I think we are headed for more of a 2013-2014 type season, where we were better on both sides, and on the cusp of finally breaking out of the first round.

IIRC the Raptors were bottom 5-10 in D last year (again early this year, but even last season we were very poor on that side to start the year, unlike this year), and no team historically has won a round being that poor on that side of the ball.

We are a better equipped team for the post season, of course I am not dubbing this some finals contender, but I do believe we will go 6-7 games in a first round, depending on matchup, and could take at least one step forward.

Here's hoping, of course, I can't predict the future, but the signs are positive and a different positive than last season.

And your argument/opinion has people that don't agree with it. Overall, I don't think the talent is much different than last season, there's just more defensive minded players. I still don't think this team wins as many games as the they did the past 2 seasons.

It is entirely possible (also Edit I meant our O has regressed) they don't win as many games.

Talent level is an interesting point. Is Biyombo, Carroll, Scola, CoJo > Lou, Grieves, Amir? Well the former are having an impact, the latter, Amir is having an impact, Lou is a shadow of himself last year, Grieves has fallen off the map.

I think talent has improved, advanced stats would prove so. CoJo is better than both the PGs, Carroll has essentially replaced Ross which is a big improvement on the D, and he starting to come around on offense as he is recovering from his injury, Biyombo is all D, no O, and Scola is a vet big who is actually a really useful tool in our arsenal we never had.

Mix in with the growth of Jonas as well, which has to be included in talent, and I don't see how one thinks the talent base is relatively the same.

Also talent base doesn't necessarily equate to winning in the playoffs or winning games either.

I do think we are a better team going forward talent wise and for the playoffs, but I don't think it's unfair if people think the talent base is the same or we win less games. That's why it's a forum haha we have our own opinions and at the end of the day we're all hoping we make some strides in June.

[The_Hater]

I agree regarding the sample size to a degree, but what I vehemently argue is that this is a completely different team in the way they play on both sides of the ball, and they had some pretty big upgrades in certain areas.

Our D has regressed yes, bench scoring is down, but given that our D has improved so much, it was a trade off that was easily worth it.

I do think the O will pick up from the bench. Terrence isn't this bad of a player, he has just had a rough patch, and got injured right in the middle of it all. Plus CoJo is still hesitant to shoot the 3, even though I really believe he has the ability to do so.

You and I both know my friend how last year went with our O. The ISO ball isn't gone necessarily, but it has decreased, and the bench is different now with systematic offense and not those end of the quarter blow my mind threes by Lou every time.

Again, I think we are headed for more of a 2013-2014 type season, where we were better on both sides, and on the cusp of finally breaking out of the first round.

IIRC the Raptors were bottom 5-10 in D last year (again early this year, but even last season we were very poor on that side to start the year, unlike this year), and no team historically has won a round being that poor on that side of the ball.

We are a better equipped team for the post season, of course I am not dubbing this some finals contender, but I do believe we will go 6-7 games in a first round, depending on matchup, and could take at least one step forward.

Here's hoping, of course, I can't predict the future, but the signs are positive and a different positive than last season.

And your argument/opinion has people that don't agree with it. Overall, I don't think the talent is much different than last season, there's just more defensive minded players. I still don't think this team wins as many games as the they did the past 2 seasons.

It is entirely possible (also Edit I meant our O has regressed) they don't win as many games.

Talent level is an interesting point. Is Biyombo, Carroll, Scola, CoJo > Lou, Grieves, Amir? Well the former are having an impact, the latter, Amir is having an impact, Lou is a shadow of himself last year, Grieves has fallen off the map.

I think talent has improved, advanced stats would prove so. CoJo is better than both the PGs, Carroll has essentially replaced Ross which is a big improvement on the D, and he starting to come around on offense as he is recovering from his injury, Biyombo is all D, no O, and Scola is a vet big who is actually a really useful tool in our arsenal we never had.

Mix in with the growth of Jonas as well, which has to be included in talent, and I don't see how one thinks the talent base is relatively the same.

Also talent base doesn't necessarily equate to winning in the playoffs or winning games either.

I do think we are a better team going forward talent wise and for the playoffs, but I don't think it's unfair if people think the talent base is the same or we win less games. That's why it's a forum haha we have our own opinions and at the end of the day we're all hoping we make some strides in June.

15 games of advanced stats doesn't prove the talent is better. That's a pretty big reach. We're still at a point where 1-2 games can cause huge fluctuations in any team stat.

I also think that many have forgetten the Raps started 24-7 last season and people were actually starting threads that 60 wins were in play. And we all know how that ended. I think it's always smart not to overrate or underrate players or teams based on small sample sizes. It's a long season full of ups and downs.

[omar36]

perspective about what? this team wont make any noise in the playoffs which most of us care for.

the offense has no movement once again and will be the reason we will be out in the first round.
f that offense stat, seriously. we were what top 5 last year? look at how far that got us against the wizards when it came time to play tighter D. we are so fkin predictable.
give or take, the teams we will face in the first will be bulls/heat/hawks. no way we could beat the heat/bulls cause their star power will negate all the calls demar usually gets and frankly they are much better.

hawks are our best chance but even then, they play as a team and will likely kill us in 5/6.

....Says the Official Tank Nation Leader of Toronto (See Sig).

although i thank you for the compliment, the leader of tank nation is probably danchan or someone who has been on the tank for years
i have just recently given up hope and and seen the light

but seriously, what is so special about this team? they have improved sure but so has the east.

[Alasen]

I honestly dont care what this teams stats are during the regular season, or how many wins they end up with or what their Offense and Defense is ranked at. The fact remains that this team lacks the TALENT to make any kind of noise in the playoffs and everyone here knows this. Until this team gets a legit Superstar we will forever be mired in mediocrity and be seen as the playoff fodder that every team in the East will be salivating to play against in the 1st round. Posting meaningless statistics 15 games into the season isn't going to change anyones "Perspective" on that cold hard truth.

[MVP-]

Did you guys know CoJo is leading the team in % of finishes of ISOs? 5th in the L at 19.0%?? Why does he (edit: not) get the Lou treatment?? Both were/are highly efficient in them, despite the bulk??

Did you know that at .88OPPP ISO finishes is higher than PnR Ball/PostUps? And just .01 less than SpotUps (generally the most efficient of high volume finishes)??

Did you know last year in the POs, ISOs was one of 2 different (among 11) finishes the Raps actually improved on over their RS finishes?? And was a top team in them during the POs??

I dont know why ppl are so adverse to them, but carry on.

People here are pretty stupid. They just don't wanna see DD/Lowry ISO, they wanna see JV do it.

[Tofubeque]

I have no idea how this team has a top-10 offense, honestly. We have no 3 point shooting most nights and go through huge dry spells. How many times have we been held to like 15 points in a quarter?

But hey, I don't watch all 29 other teams. Maybe everyone starts the year off shooting poorly (except the Warriors)

[DG88]

I have no idea how this team has a top-10 offense, honestly. We have no 3 point shooting most nights and go through huge dry spells. How many times have we been held to like 15 points in a quarter?

But hey, I don't watch all 29 other teams. Maybe everyone starts the year off shooting poorly (except the Warriors)

They score efficiently in the paint and get to the free throw line at a high rate as well.