OT: The decline of LeBron James

[DreamTeam09]

Still not a goat in my eyes. Not the best qplayer in the nba either. Curry makes a better/bigger impact on the game right now. I mean back to back years his man won finals MVP. 2-6 in the finals. 1-3 against the spurs. Relies way too much on other parts to achieve the ultimate goal.

If he did what he did last year in the PO, he should've done that the whole time in miami and won 4x or do it this year with everyone healthy and back. But he's already planting the seeds about it being Kyrie teams n he could be the best player in the nba. Well lebron, you're going to have to be the best to win it.

But hey I'm looked at as a lebron hater so...[/quote


Why do people use the whole "2-6" thing as an argument like that? Those are 6 finals, 5 straight... that's amazing. If he got eliminated earlier in the playoffs the times he didn't win, that would make his finals percentage higher and it would look better, but it really isn't. Is Curry not making the finals in the 2013-2014 season better than making it and losing? No.

If you get there, then you should win no? I mean when talking about the goats. I mean you are praising him for getting there and losing most of the time no? Out of those 6 appearances he was the favorite 4x and still only has 2. One of which where he folded on the biggest play of the series and Bosh x Ray Allen are the ones who get remembered 1st for that chip imho.

[primopastalove2]

Still not a goat in my eyes. Not the best qplayer in the nba either. Curry makes a better/bigger impact on the game right now. I mean back to back years his man won finals MVP. 2-6 in the finals. 1-3 against the spurs. Relies way too much on other parts to achieve the ultimate goal.

If he did what he did last year in the PO, he should've done that the whole time in miami and won 4x or do it this year with everyone healthy and back. But he's already planting the seeds about it being Kyrie teams n he could be the best player in the nba. Well lebron, you're going to have to be the best to win it.

But hey I'm looked at as a lebron hater so...[/quote


Why do people use the whole "2-6" thing as an argument like that? Those are 6 finals, 5 straight... that's amazing. If he got eliminated earlier in the playoffs the times he didn't win, that would make his finals percentage higher and it would look better, but it really isn't. Is Curry not making the finals in the 2013-2014 season better than making it and losing? No.

If you get there, then you should win no? I mean when talking about the goats. I mean you are praising him for getting there and losing most of the time no? Out of those 6 appearances he was the favorite 4x and still only has 2. One of which where he folded on the biggest play of the series and Bosh x Ray Allen are the ones who get remembered 1st for that chip imho.

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Still not a goat in my eyes. Not the best qplayer in the nba either. Curry makes a better/bigger impact on the game right now. I mean back to back years his man won finals MVP. 2-6 in the finals. 1-3 against the spurs. Relies way too much on other parts to achieve the ultimate goal.

If he did what he did last year in the PO, he should've done that the whole time in miami and won 4x or do it this year with everyone healthy and back. But he's already planting the seeds about it being Kyrie teams n he could be the best player in the nba. Well lebron, you're going to have to be the best to win it.

But hey I'm looked at as a lebron hater so...[/quote


Why do people use the whole "2-6" thing as an argument like that? Those are 6 finals, 5 straight... that's amazing. If he got eliminated earlier in the playoffs the times he didn't win, that would make his finals percentage higher and it would look better, but it really isn't. Is Curry not making the finals in the 2013-2014 season better than making it and losing? No.

If you get there, then you should win no? I mean when talking about the goats. I mean you are praising him for getting there and losing most of the time no? Out of those 6 appearances he was the favorite 4x and still only has 2. One of which where he folded on the biggest play of the series and Bosh x Ray Allen are the ones who get remembered 1st for that chip imho.

This is just so dumb, so just because the 2007 Cavs were in the finals they were supposed to beat prime Spurs dynasty? Can you even name the Cavs starting line up without using the Internet. What about the 2015 Cavs they were supposed to beat the best team in the league with 3 Knicks rejects and and 2 international scrubs in their starting line up, lol. The fact that they even took 2 games just goes to show how dominant LBJ is, he could have taken last years Knicks and done the same. Switch Curry and LeBron, and the Cavs get swept. And lol at 4x favourites, that's revisionist history, LBJ was the favourite in 2011, and 2013 he is 1-1. Every other year he was the underdog. No people remember him taking over the 4qrt in game 6 scoring 18 points when his team was down double digits finishing with 30-10-10. Scoring 55 points in 5 qrt a between game 6 and 7 against the Spurs to win both games and the chip. You said it yourself you are a LeBron hater you diminished his accomplishment and his exaggerate his failures you set unattainable standards and bash him if he doesn't not achieve them without any context at all. Their is nobody in NBA history that can do all the things lbj can do so tell me what all-time great could have done better in LBJ situation. Lol if you say Bird.


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[Raps in 4]

I think he's not as bouncy as when he first came in, but Lebron's statistical decline has more to do with him being a "big 3" player, as opposed to a Kobe-go-it-all type.

There was a tweet circulating today about Lebron vs Kobe vs Jordan at his current age (31). Lebron has more points, rebounds, assists, etc than either one of the other two. Lebron has a great mind too, so as he ages, he can be more of a playmaker as opposed to a one man train.

Have we already seen the best of Lebron? Yes. But barring injuries, he will easily be an MVP caliber player for another 2 to 3 seasons, and an allstar player for another 4 to 5 seasons after that.

Why would anyone compare Kobe to those two?

[Johnny Bball]

This article and conversation is ridiculously premature. He's a great player.

[wow09]

All this talk that he relies purely on athleticism is insane. Lebron is the smartest player in the league and possibly of all time. I personally do not like him or the Cavs but as a true fan of the NBA to say Lebron is in decline or won't be elite in a few years is crazy

[iktuz]

All this talk that he relies purely on athleticism is insane. Lebron is the smartest player in the league and possibly of all time. I personally do not like him or the Cavs but as a true fan of the NBA to say Lebron is in decline or won't be elite in a few years is crazy

He truly is the smartest player in the league right now, not going to make any assumptions about all time. Even if his athleticism is declining as the years go on, his basketball iq and experience will still keep growing. Maybe he won't be as dominant, but I can definitely see him becoming a bigger playmaker.

[DeKobe DeBryant]

Another 27/10/7 game on great shooting.

Cavs on a 7-0 winning streak.

[Hero]

Still not a goat in my eyes. Not the best qplayer in the nba either. Curry makes a better/bigger impact on the game right now. I mean back to back years his man won finals MVP. 2-6 in the finals. 1-3 against the spurs. Relies way too much on other parts to achieve the ultimate goal.

If he did what he did last year in the PO, he should've done that the whole time in miami and won 4x or do it this year with everyone healthy and back. But he's already planting the seeds about it being Kyrie teams n he could be the best player in the nba. Well lebron, you're going to have to be the best to win it.

But hey I'm looked at as a lebron hater so...

Why do people use the whole "2-6" thing as an argument like that? Those are 6 finals, 5 straight... that's amazing. If he got eliminated earlier in the playoffs the times he didn't win, that would make his finals percentage higher and it would look better, but it really isn't. Is Curry not making the finals in the 2013-2014 season better than making it and losing? No.

Finals record is basically something haters fall back on to discredit LBJ.
The fact that this man has gone to this many finals is a great accomplishment.

[Arman_tanzarian]

Still not a goat in my eyes. Not the best qplayer in the nba either. Curry makes a better/bigger impact on the game right now. I mean back to back years his man won finals MVP. 2-6 in the finals. 1-3 against the spurs. Relies way too much on other parts to achieve the ultimate goal.

If he did what he did last year in the PO, he should've done that the whole time in miami and won 4x or do it this year with everyone healthy and back. But he's already planting the seeds about it being Kyrie teams n he could be the best player in the nba. Well lebron, you're going to have to be the best to win it.

But hey I'm looked at as a lebron hater so...

Why do people use the whole "2-6" thing as an argument like that? Those are 6 finals, 5 straight... that's amazing. If he got eliminated earlier in the playoffs the times he didn't win, that would make his finals percentage higher and it would look better, but it really isn't. Is Curry not making the finals in the 2013-2014 season better than making it and losing? No.

Finals record is basically something haters fall back on to discredit LBJ.
The fact that this man has gone to this many finals is a great accomplishment.

It's a horrible argument. Most dudes don't go to the finals dragging along pavlovic and Gibson at a tender age of 23 and then delly and then ex knick rejects. Most of the years he lost aside from 11, his team's just were no longer able to match the firepower of the opponent. 14 and 15 were amazing finals performances, you can't win if the other team is simply performing way better on offence across the board.

Here just to use MJ as a the standard, not saying he's better or at his level, I have no one at MJ's level but please tell me how many other guys have consistently produced like this throughout an entire career?

930 career regular season games for Bulls Jordan:

29.1 PER, 58.0% TS, 27.4 WS/48, 9.0 BPM, 99.8 VORP

935 career regular season games for James:

27.7 PER, 58.1% TS, 24.0 WS/48, 9.2 BPM, 103.4 VORP

179 career playoff games for Jordan:

28.6 PER, 56.8% TS, 25.5 WS/48, 10.1 BPM, 22.8 VORP

178 career playoff games for James:

27.4 PER, 56.5% TS, 23.4 WS/48, 10.4 BPM, 23.7 VORP

[Randle McMurphy]

What he did last year in the playoffs, I don't know if I've ever seen that. I don't give a crap if warriors won, but the man was playing with scrubs in the finals.

Should have won the Finals MVP in that series and everyone knew it. He outclassed Curry, Green, Thompson, the real winner (Iguodala), and every other player in it by a mile.

[DreamTeam09]

okay like i said, He's been to the finals 6x 4 of them, he was the favourite. I didn't expect him to beat the Spurs the 1st time he was with the cavs . (Although that was a closer series than ppl like to remember, all the games were close)

I didn't get at him for losing last year(Although again, he was up 2-1 and all of the games were close for that series, his % were horrible tho)

4x he was the favourite, he won 2, and one of them like I said was a big shoutout to Bosh, Ray allen, wade.

You guys can marvel and appreciate someone for getting to the finals 5x in a conference that everyone called the "Leastern Conference" up untill this year, but to be a goat getting there isn't enough imho.

I've seen Jason terry torture lebron in a finals.
Young K.Leonard had a bad game 1 and after that went on to have a great series and won finals mvp covering lebron.

Dwade took a veteran group kinda like that 1st cavs team and won a chip.

Jordan went to the finals 3x in a row, chilled then went back 3x in a row and is 6 for 6

You mean to tell me Jordan would still be a goat if he was 2-6 in the finals even though he went there 6x in a 8yr span? No, no he wouldn't.

[dTox]

okay like i said, He's been to the finals 6x 4 of them, he was the favourite. I didn't expect him to beat the Spurs the 1st time he was with the cavs . (Although that was a closer series than ppl like to remember, all the games were close)

I didn't get at him for losing last year(Although again, he was up 2-1 and all of the games were close for that series, his % were horrible tho)

4x he was the favourite, he won 2, and one of them like I said was a big shoutout to Bosh, Ray allen, wade.

You guys can marvel and appreciate someone for getting to the finals 5x in a conference that everyone called the "Leastern Conference" up untill this year, but to be a goat getting there isn't enough imho.

I've seen Jason terry torture lebron in a finals.
Young K.Leonard had a bad game 1 and after that went on to have a great series and won finals mvp covering lebron.

Dwade took a veteran group kinda like that 1st cavs team and won a chip.

Jordan went to the finals 3x in a row, chilled then went back 3x in a row and is 6 for 6

You mean to tell me Jordan would still be a goat if he was 2-6 in the finals even though he went there 6x in a 8yr span? No, no he wouldn't.

Jordan's team won 55+ games without him, I don't think any of Lebron's team is capable of pulling that off without his presence, nor did he have a coach like Phil Jackson leading the way, it was always some unproven rookie coach that he dragged to the finals. None of these coaches found any success remotely close after his departure.

[colonel_von]

okay like i said, He's been to the finals 6x 4 of them, he was the favourite. I didn't expect him to beat the Spurs the 1st time he was with the cavs . (Although that was a closer series than ppl like to remember, all the games were close)

I didn't get at him for losing last year(Although again, he was up 2-1 and all of the games were close for that series, his % were horrible tho)

4x he was the favourite, he won 2, and one of them like I said was a big shoutout to Bosh, Ray allen, wade.

You guys can marvel and appreciate someone for getting to the finals 5x in a conference that everyone called the "Leastern Conference" up untill this year, but to be a goat getting there isn't enough imho.

I've seen Jason terry torture lebron in a finals.
Young K.Leonard had a bad game 1 and after that went on to have a great series and won finals mvp covering lebron.

Dwade took a veteran group kinda like that 1st cavs team and won a chip.

Jordan went to the finals 3x in a row, chilled then went back 3x in a row and is 6 for 6

You mean to tell me Jordan would still be a goat if he was 2-6 in the finals even though he went there 6x in a 8yr span? No, no he wouldn't.

I'd say his only bad loss in the finals was the Dallas one and only because he himself should have played better... but even then his team was thin as paper outside of the Big 3. It had Mike Bibby and Arroyo splitting PG, with Joel Anthony at center. That is horrendous.

Dallas was pretty strong 1-8 on that team

[2pat]

Still the best player in the game even if he is declining.

[LLJ]

This article and conversation is ridiculously premature. He's a great player.

Nobody is saying he still isn't great...

[Johnny Bball]

This article and conversation is ridiculously premature. He's a great player.

Nobody is saying he still isn't great...

Ever wonder if you a bit too literal sometimes?

An interesting article about the LeBron's lack of dominance over the rest of the league over the last couple of seasons.

[LLJ]

This article and conversation is ridiculously premature. He's a great player.

Nobody is saying he still isn't great...

Ever wonder if you a bit too literal sometimes?

An interesting article about the LeBron's lack of dominance over the rest of the league over the last couple of seasons.

It's a valid question. He's still a great player, but he really is not as good as he was 3 or 4 years ago. Before he was far and away the most impactful player in the league. Now, he still is but only in fits and spurts. He's closer to the pack now than he was before.

[bigbob]

Still not a goat in my eyes. Not the best qplayer in the nba either. Curry makes a better/bigger impact on the game right now. I mean back to back years his man won finals MVP. 2-6 in the finals. 1-3 against the spurs. Relies way too much on other parts to achieve the ultimate goal.

If he did what he did last year in the PO, he should've done that the whole time in miami and won 4x or do it this year with everyone healthy and back. But he's already planting the seeds about it being Kyrie teams n he could be the best player in the nba. Well lebron, you're going to have to be the best to win it.

But hey I'm looked at as a lebron hater so...

no...warriors have a stacked team..they just signed all these amazing players by luck before they broke out, for pennies on the dollar. Draymond Green getting paid only $15 mill?? Lolol, dude would be a super max on any other team...steph curry still getting paid only 12 mill, klay thompson locked for $16 mill. They have 3 legit mvp candidates in their peaks playing together for average cap of $14 mill each or $42 mill for the trio. Cavs 3 stars cost almost $60 mill...doesn't leave much room left over for getting decent role players.

[The_Hater]

Bron is aging and had a ton of miles on him so he has to pace himself through the regular season now. As far as I'm concerned, that's the only difference in his regular season statistical line now because he was still the best player in last seasons NBA playoffs carrying that ragtag bunch as far as he did.

[DreamTeam09]

Still not a goat in my eyes. Not the best qplayer in the nba either. Curry makes a better/bigger impact on the game right now. I mean back to back years his man won finals MVP. 2-6 in the finals. 1-3 against the spurs. Relies way too much on other parts to achieve the ultimate goal.

If he did what he did last year in the PO, he should've done that the whole time in miami and won 4x or do it this year with everyone healthy and back. But he's already planting the seeds about it being Kyrie teams n he could be the best player in the nba. Well lebron, you're going to have to be the best to win it.

But hey I'm looked at as a lebron hater so...

no...warriors have a stacked team..they just signed all these amazing players by luck before they broke out, for pennies on the dollar. Draymond Green getting paid only $15 mill?? Lolol, dude would be a super max on any other team...steph curry still getting paid only 12 mill, klay thompson locked for $16 mill. They have 3 legit mvp candidates in their peaks playing together for average cap of $14 mill each or $42 mill for the trio. Cavs 3 stars cost almost $60 mill...doesn't leave much room left over for getting decent role players.

my friend, the cavs team is stacked. Mozgov TT Shumpert JR smith would start on a lot of teams and are making a lot of coin. Not to mention Av is paid. Cavs have a team to win it all, but they won't this year.