T Ross Defense

[tms]

best defender ever . pure dominance

[Boogie!]

Another stat. Toronto's record this year was a franchise record 56-26.

Toronto's record in games Ross did not play: 3-6
for comparison, record when Demar did not play: 3-1

Ross is very important to this team. It boggles my mind that every single page in the offseason thread contains trades involved in sending Ross out.

That's a small sample size. Also Ross not being a starter was a much bigger factor to our success imo.

the two seasons prior ross was a starter and we set franchise records in wins with 47 and then 48...

we made bigger strides last year, not because ross "wasnt starting" but because we actually improved on our defensive weaknesses by adding a great backup big man and more defense out of the point guard position.

its still super odd to me that people's logic is so simplistic as to imply that moving a valuable role player on our team will be the key factor in our improvement...

[nbafan341]

definitely agree with the post, welcome to the board. I think the reaosn we call t-ross inconsistent is because, at a young age and as a draft pick that we tanked for, we expect him to be a starter, we thought he'd be beter htan derozan because he could shoot and play defence and had a 51 pt game. It's the expectations that us raptor fans have. It reminds me of hyped I got about powell, but I took his comments about waht he wanted to improve on for summer league seriously. Even with his first game where he had a good stats and enough assist, i noticed him ball hogging at times and not following into the mentality of getting others better. he was inconsistent and didnt follow through with his goal nor his defence/decision making and it showed throughout all of summer league and not just the one game that we lost. OVerall, people will turn on powell the same way they turned on ross: EXPECTATION.

[mademan]

He's a part of out best lineups, our best 3 pt shooter, not a defensive liability but everyone wants to ship him out for a bag of chips?

I get the Powell love, but let's see some regular season consistency over a large sample before throwing players away in his favour.

Ross is the definition of regular season consistency lol. At this point ross has shown who he is, a streaky shooter that plays above avg defense sometimes. I don't think it would be hard for norm to replicate that at worse

Norm is not yet proven to be a good 3pt shooter and he has a slow release. Ross is a very consistent 3pt shooter with a quicker trigger and a higher point of release. I absolutely do not think Norm can replace what Ross does and we would really really miss him. Thinking about Norm/DD being primary wings is scary to me

[deeps6x]

One shortcoming of this stat is it won't capture all the times that, for example, Ross gets lost on a screen, then someone in our very help-conscious defense scrambles out to his man, then Ross' man finds someone for an easy basket. And if OP was looking at DFG% instead of opponent FG%, Ross isn't punished for plays where he leaves someone wide open and doesn't contest the shot.

NBA defense is so incredibly dependent on all 5 guys on the floor, and it's tough to capture with stats like this. Reddick probably wouldn't rank as highly if he didn't have Deandre Jordan behind him; players he guards will be less eager to drive the lane, so he can play them closer, and then when they do drive the lane, they force shots up quicker, wary of Jordan's help defense. Reddick still deserves credit for recognizing this and playing accordingly. Durant also no doubt benefits from playing in front of Ibaka/Adams. Ross you could argue benefits from sharing a lot of minutes with Biyombo and Patterson.

All that said, the sample size is definitely big here, he's in good company, and I agree he's a good on-ball defender. I think he gets a lot of undue hate on here for his xbox and baby mamas and whatever. Though he also hasn't exactly lit it up for us in the playoffs.

I also agree that he gets a lot of undue hate here, but lets keep it real as well. Unless Masai starts valuing Offensive plus Defensive production per dollar earned, DD is going to be entrenched here. After that, should we keep Powell or Ross as the SG backup? Well Powell earns 1/10th of what Ross earns... so it makes it kind of an easy decision about who should be expendable. (personally, and even more so now, DD is the one that should be traded - if we can get a decent return for him - I just don't think management agrees with me)

Also, your comments about Reddick and Jordan.... it kind of makes me think you are over looking that Ross was in the exact same situation with Biyombo - but our pair was playing against backups mostly. But the situation was still the same.

It would be interesting to know if the numbers for Ross were drastically different or mostly the same the previous season - when he didn't have Biyombo backing him up. (You know, when we had a void at backup C, instead of a great defensive C known for his blocking)

[deeps6x]

He's a part of out best lineups, our best 3 pt shooter, not a defensive liability but everyone wants to ship him out for a bag of chips?

I get the Powell love, but let's see some regular season consistency over a large sample before throwing players away in his favour.

Ross is the definition of regular season consistency lol. At this point ross has shown who he is, a streaky shooter that plays above avg defense sometimes. I don't think it would be hard for norm to replicate that at worse

Norm is not yet proven to be a good 3pt shooter and he has a slow release. Ross is a very consistent 3pt shooter with a quicker trigger and a higher point of release. I absolutely do not think Norm can replace what Ross does and we would really really miss him. Thinking about Norm/DD being primary wings is scary to me

I don't think about Norm replacing Ross either. I think about Norm replacing DD. Ross will most likely never be willing to take it to the rim like DD does, but we've seen a lot more from Powell in this regard. We've seen Norm putting in better defensive 'effort' than DD a lot of the time as well. Combine these two things with a much better 3 point shot than DD has... and hey, I can imagine Powell making DD expendable. Maybe not this season, but possibly next summer or 6 months after that.

Ross at 25 now, seems like his full range of abilities have been displayed for us. He has had flashes of greatness in several areas, but the consistent effort and work necessary to sustain this greatness and become a star ... well that has never been a visible part of his personality. And I also question his BBIQ some times as well. That said, he is a very attractively priced backup SG/SF hybrid. And as the cap increases this summer and next summer start filtering throughout the league, his value will increase even more. I'm fine with keeping him, but there really is only room for 2 quality rotation SGs on the team. Minute wise as well as financially. However, as Powell makes next to nothing in comparison, I suppose we can maintain the status quo until it comes time to pay him. There is no need to rush to trade anyone as long as we keep winning at a 50+ win pace.

[vjkid]

I think the Raptors fan perspective on Ross is a guy who can do everything, but looks lost on the court at times and is inconsistent. He probably could be one of the top 2 guards in the league if he just played every possession with 100% focus, but it feels like he plays at best 70% focus on most nights.

[triple_threat]

Another stat. Toronto's record this year was a franchise record 56-26.

Toronto's record in games Ross did not play: 3-6
for comparison, record when Demar did not play: 3-1

Ross is very important to this team. It boggles my mind that every single page in the offseason thread contains trades involved in sending Ross out.

That's a small sample size. Also Ross not being a starter was a much bigger factor to our success imo.

the two seasons prior ross was a starter and we set franchise records in wins with 47 and then 48...

we made bigger strides last year, not because ross "wasnt starting" but because we actually improved on our defensive weaknesses by adding a great backup big man and more defense out of the point guard position.

its still super odd to me that people's logic is so simplistic as to imply that moving a valuable role player on our team will be the key factor in our improvement...

Regular season is one thing, but we are a first round exit with ross starting. He also wasn't our best guard off the bench. "Very important" to this team is an overstatement. He's easily replaceable.

[HomieOmey]

I want to love the guy and I rather not give up on him since I can see him "figuring it out" with another team, but it just baffles me how his three point and defence stats were so great during the regular season yet it didn't look like he was contributing much during the playoffs. There weren't too many stretches when it looked like he was truly making a difference on either side of the court. Even in Lowry's most awful stretches it always felt like he was controlling the game in other ways.