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Looking forward, from a basketball standpoint, the Raptors should deal DeRozan, who is perhaps the most overpaid player in the league. Yes, he scores, but get this: In the last two seasons the Raptors have outscored their opponents by more points when DeRozan was sitting. That's not what you want from a player that makes $27 million a year.
"I definitely knew he traveled, but I didn't know they were going to call it. That was one of them situations in which a great player made a move...and they called the call. And I was like, 'Oh, man, there is a God.'
Scott Hall wrote:super_balls wrote:Scott Hall wrote:
Who is DeRozan supposed to pass to when the Raps have been playing 3 on 5? Carroll, Siakam, Bebe?
He does frustrate me on 2 on 1's or general fast breaks... I've never seen him pass and usually gets a charge then
bitches at the ref lol
The dude was scoring 28 ppg on 48% FG and getting to the FT line at a good rate while him and Lowry were carrying
these slugs to a top 3 seed in the East up until a couple of weeks ago. He gets injured and cools down a bit and the vultures
are already circling him.
It's like when Vince Carter and Bosh led teams that were surrounded by crap. People start reaching and over analyzing
them and pointing fingers towards them and convince themselves that their the problem when its clear their supporting
cast is the problem.
This. x100
Playing at any level, it was always hard for me (as a guard) to pass the ball to guys that can't make shots. Your trying to win, are you really going to pass the ball to the scrub who will either a) brick the shot(s) or b) do something aimless and not create a shot for others.
I'm glad you mentioned that because I was gonna use that as an example...
In a bigger sense it's why guys like Durant go to GS and Lebron bounces around and is always bitching about more help.
If these guys don't win people blame them not the $hitty players around them.
I've never been a Kobe fan but I always loved when he'd cuss out the scrubs he had to play with like Smush Parker,
Jordan Farmer, Sasha Vujacic etc.
hsb wrote:Looking forward, from a basketball standpoint, the Raptors should deal DeRozan, who is perhaps the most overpaid player in the league. Yes, he scores, but get this: In the last two seasons the Raptors have outscored their opponents by more points when DeRozan was sitting. That's not what you want from a player that makes $27 million a year.
So lazy and not even just him, net rating/plus-minus/rpm etc, have been abused to ridiculous means by many of the posters on here too.
Scott Hall wrote:MasaiLegs wrote:Scott Hall wrote:
Who is DeRozan supposed to pass to when the Raps have been playing 3 on 5? Carroll, Siakam, Bebe?
He does frustrate me on 2 on 1's or general fast breaks... I've never seen him pass and usually gets a charge then
bitches at the ref lol
The dude was scoring 28 ppg on 48% FG and getting to the FT line at a good rate while him and Lowry were carrying
these slugs to a top 3 seed in the East up until a couple of weeks ago. He gets injured and cools down a bit and the vultures
are already circling him.
It's like when Vince Carter and Bosh led teams that were surrounded by crap. People start reaching and over analyzing
them and pointing fingers towards them and convince themselves that their the problem when its clear their supporting
cast is the problem.
Derozan is what he is, a high volume, low FG% scorer. Throughout his career he's shot around .420. He was lights out to being the season but over the past 15 games he's been sub 0.400 at over 20 FGA. I'm not saying the supporting cast has been great, but I think after so many seasons I think we know what we have in him and that isn't a franchise player to build around. So it's not like an all of a sudden thing, we've been watching this for years.
And the team won 56 games and was 2 games away from the finals with him as a lead guy....
If you want to look at his career history look at the scrubs he's had to play with earlier in his career....
Even the biggest DeRozan haters don't accuse him of being selfish...
Lowry and DeRozan have to score and take shots out of necessity and then Valanciunas who's like the 3rd option
doesn't play in the 4th quarters.
What's the options to pass?
Patterson missing WIDE open 3's?
Carroll fumbling the ball or missing wide open layups under the rim?
Bebe and his bad hands or taking stupid charges?
Siakam who can't do anything other then dunk?
Poeltl who can't finish under the rim?
The problem with DeRozan is defense not offense
artsncrafts wrote:Englemann makes some valid points, you guys need to take off your homer glasses.
-Declining
-Rental
-Overpay when he is FA
-Not beating CLE (I doubt we even make the ECF)
Now we didnt give up too much for this year's sake but you have to take into account the insane amount of money Masai will offer Ibaka and then grade the trade.
Rapsfan07 wrote:artsncrafts wrote:Englemann makes some valid points, you guys need to take off your homer glasses.
-Declining
-Rental
-Overpay when he is FA
-Not beating CLE (I doubt we even make the ECF)
Now we didnt give up too much for this year's sake but you have to take into account the insane amount of money Masai will offer Ibaka and then grade the trade.
I wouldn't worry too much. Ibaka looks to be Worth about $20M. Even with his current production, in this market, that's still a reasonable deal.
Plus Ibaka and Masai have a pretty good Relationship and I'm confident he will like it here where he has something to play for.
I'd say $100M/5years gets it done. No, Ibaka hasn't been the other worldly player he was in his early OKC days but that doesn't mean he's a scrub right now. I can guarantee you that he will contribute more than Ross and the 25th pick would have. No doubt about that.
McGregFan wrote:Risk101 wrote:That Engelmann dude is an idiot. How does a late first round pick and Ross, who is as inconsistent as they come, make little sense in getting a talented big like Ibaka?
If you can't beat cleveland you should definitely blow it up and strive to be the orlando magic
McGregFan wrote:Risk101 wrote:That Engelmann dude is an idiot. How does a late first round pick and Ross, who is as inconsistent as they come, make little sense in getting a talented big like Ibaka?
If you can't beat cleveland you should definitely blow it up and strive to be the orlando magic
Truthrising wrote:hsb wrote:Looking forward, from a basketball standpoint, the Raptors should deal DeRozan, who is perhaps the most overpaid player in the league. Yes, he scores, but get this: In the last two seasons the Raptors have outscored their opponents by more points when DeRozan was sitting. That's not what you want from a player that makes $27 million a year.
So lazy and not even just him, net rating/plus-minus/rpm etc, have been abused to ridiculous means by many of the posters on here too.
That's what i've been saying for so long, all the advanced shows that even though DD's an ok scorer not elite or anything, he's a really bad defender, if not the worst defender which outweighs all the good things he does on the offensive end. The guy is essentially a 0.0 BPM. essentially it's better to have him sit on the bench which in turn doesn't freeze out his teammates and they tend to play better when there's ball movement.
YogurtProducer wrote:Courtside wrote:ATLTimekeeper wrote:I'm pretty sure Rudy and Kyle are still really close. I think you need to read the media here as an extension of the fanbase. These guys get emotionally involved, too. I think only Michael Grange can keep his cool.
Yeah, they're still friends. Proof that having a friend traded off your team isn't going to send you off the deep end. If the result of trading Demar was that we A) got better (unknown at this point) as well as B) made Kyle the highest paid player on a new deal and C) made him the clear big dog on the team, Kyle would not only get over the loss of Demar in a trade, he might actually welcome it (with the Rudy experience under his belt as well).ATLTimekeeper wrote:Kyle is a sore loser, so it's possible that he'd go after DeMar or other teammates, but the fact that he was arguing with Casey in the game and he's had a history of butting heads with Casey (and other coaches in the past) would point more in that direction.
You're right about the sore loser part. He wants to win. Ask yourself why he keeps arguing with Casey, though? Casey clearly favors Demar as our lead scorer and part of the "ride or die"mentality that KL may have been part of, but also clearly takes issue with. Is there a possibility he butts heads with Casey over the pecking order that is in place? Kyle clearly has an issue with our strategy and lack of adjustments by the coach, most of which revolve around Demar. Look at last night, Kyle seemed to relish the way they came back in the 4th with DD parked on the bench.
You know I have a bias here, which I admit to fully, but what I'm seeing on the floor this season is that even though KL and DD are good buds, they are not so attached that losing Demar would make Kyle want out. I actually think the opposite could be true, given the points I noted in the first section of my response. KL's ego is definitely that big, and if we're choosing between the ego's of DD and KL, I know which one is the winner that I do what I can to keep around.
Boom. I think Kyle is starting to get frustrated with Demar and for good reason. Imagine you are Kyle, you make the smart plays and carry this team. But you see Demar go out every night and put up 20 shots regardless of what the situation is.
People think that it is impossible Kyle could ever be mad at Demar but what even makes people think they are soooooo close that Kyle would bolt if his buddy was not here? It isn't like Kyle could just run to wherever Demar would be traded to anyways - that is not how it works. Kyle and Demar remind me of the relationship between Durant and Westbrook. Durant knows he is the better player yet he had to watch Westbrook attempt to take over night after night even though he had no business doing so. Same with Demar and Lowry.
If we were to move Demar do you really think Kyle would sulk? I don't. Look at how different Kyle played in the 4th Q last night. It was night and day,
artsncrafts wrote:Englemann makes some valid points, you guys need to take off your homer glasses.
-Declining
-Rental
-Overpay when he is FA
-Not beating CLE (I doubt we even make the ECF)
Now we didnt give up too much for this year's sake but you have to take into account the insane amount of money Masai will offer Ibaka and then grade the trade.
ROBBS wrote:Risk101 wrote:That Engelmann dude is an idiot. How does a late first round pick and Ross, who is as inconsistent as they come, make little sense in getting a talented big like Ibaka?
Yeah I disagree in saying this trade makes little sense in the short-term. Ibaka absolutely upgrades the talent on this team and gives us a legit PF. If the logic is that it's still not enough to beat Cleveland, well Ross and the late extra first rounder isn't a huge pill to swallow to see if that's the case.
Long term though, after we inevitably sign him to a huge deal, is a different story.
