Semi OT: Anyone lose money in the crypto crash?

[VanWest82]

You want a value proposition for Bitcoin? Here it is: imagine you live in Turkey, Argentina, Venezuala, Zimbabwe, Iran, Sudan, South Sudan, Liberia, Lebanon or any of these other countries with **** governments that don't know how to manage their economies. You're getting killed with inflation/currency devaluation. It isn't so easy to get your hands on real assets that aren't impacted by this. But you do have an internet connection.

[KL78192020]

You want a value proposition for Bitcoin? Here it is: imagine you live in Turkey, Argentina, Venezuala, Zimbabwe, Iran, Sudan, South Sudan, Liberia, Lebanon or any of these other countries with **** governments that don't know how to manage their economies. You're getting killed with inflation/currency devaluation. It isn't so easy to get your hands on real assets that aren't impacted by this. But you do have an internet connection.

Didn't work out to well for El Salvador.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/el-salvadors-bitcoin-holdings-down-60percent-to-60-million-one-year-later.html

[VanWest82]

You want a value proposition for Bitcoin? Here it is: imagine you live in Turkey, Argentina, Venezuala, Zimbabwe, Iran, Sudan, South Sudan, Liberia, Lebanon or any of these other countries with **** governments that don't know how to manage their economies. You're getting killed with inflation/currency devaluation. It isn't so easy to get your hands on real assets that aren't impacted by this. But you do have an internet connection.

Didn't work out to well for El Salvador.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/el-salvadors-bitcoin-holdings-down-60percent-to-60-million-one-year-later.html

I wasn't suggesting it was an alternative currency for a country, just an alternative for citizens stuck living in a crappy country as an accessible savings vehicle.

[deck]

You want a value proposition for Bitcoin? Here it is: imagine you live in Turkey, Argentina, Venezuala, Zimbabwe, Iran, Sudan, South Sudan, Liberia, Lebanon or any of these other countries with **** governments that don't know how to manage their economies. You're getting killed with inflation/currency devaluation. It isn't so easy to get your hands on real assets that aren't impacted by this. But you do have an internet connection.

Yeah, thats fair. BTC as an inflation hedge is a worth while narrative. But this is far from revolutionary. With an internet connection, those people could also buy gold, stocks, other currencies, etc.

[KL78192020]

You want a value proposition for Bitcoin? Here it is: imagine you live in Turkey, Argentina, Venezuala, Zimbabwe, Iran, Sudan, South Sudan, Liberia, Lebanon or any of these other countries with **** governments that don't know how to manage their economies. You're getting killed with inflation/currency devaluation. It isn't so easy to get your hands on real assets that aren't impacted by this. But you do have an internet connection.

Didn't work out to well for El Salvador.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/el-salvadors-bitcoin-holdings-down-60percent-to-60-million-one-year-later.html

I wasn't suggesting it was an alternative currency for a country, just an alternative for citizens stuck living in a crappy country as an accessible savings vehicle.

It's the same logic, imagine you're in a one of those 3rd world countries and you put your money into BTC, and it loses 70% of its value when you need it, you're screwed.

[VanWest82]

Didn't work out to well for El Salvador.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/el-salvadors-bitcoin-holdings-down-60percent-to-60-million-one-year-later.html

I wasn't suggesting it was an alternative currency for a country, just an alternative for citizens stuck living in a crappy country as an accessible savings vehicle.

It's the same logic, imagine you're in a one of those 3rd world countries and you put your money into BTC, and it loses 70% of its value when you need it, you're screwed.

Most of the countries I listed lost a heck of a lot more than that on their currencies in the last couple years. At least with Bitcoin one could make a pretty solid argument that it'll bounce back at some point.

[VanWest82]

You want a value proposition for Bitcoin? Here it is: imagine you live in Turkey, Argentina, Venezuala, Zimbabwe, Iran, Sudan, South Sudan, Liberia, Lebanon or any of these other countries with **** governments that don't know how to manage their economies. You're getting killed with inflation/currency devaluation. It isn't so easy to get your hands on real assets that aren't impacted by this. But you do have an internet connection.

Yeah, thats fair. BTC as an inflation hedge is a worth while narrative. But this is far from revolutionary. With an internet connection, those people could also buy gold, stocks, other currencies, etc.

How are you going to get the gold? Where are you going to store it? These aren't always easy questions depending where you live. Same thing with participating in foreign stock exchanges. Not always straight forward.

[BlackThought]

1. Bitcoin is too slow and too expensive to be used in practical terms as a currency. ASICs will help with this, but nothing can fundamentally change the fact that it is too slow to be a transitional currency. This is why layer 2 protocols exist, and it is why at present day, Bitcoin is relegated to being a speculative asset.

2. Bitcoin as a currency is negative sum, for every dollar that buys in, some percent of that dollar is removed and converted back to fiat. This is fundamentally required in order for mining to be profitable. Even in the Utopian world where we run the whole thing off renew-ables, miners will still take profits to extract tangible value from the system. So while the deflationary aspect of Bitcoin is appealing as a hedge against fiat being devalued, the money flowing out of the currency in the form of miners taking profits is massively offsetting that advantage.

3. Bitcoin is a greater fool scheme; in order for people to sell their bitcoin for a profit someone else must buy their bitcoin at a higher price. This is a fundamental truth because a mined bitcoin as zero intrinsic value. This isn't to say you can't make money off bitcoin, but one must acknowledge it for what it is, a speculative asset where making a profit is predicated on being able to sell your bitcoin for more to someone else in the future.

4. Bitcoin does nothing to provide banking services and does nothing to democratize the banking industry as so many advocates claim. The problem with the government fiscal policy and banking and everything else is greed. The problem is human nature. Bitcoin doesn't fix this, and if you actually take a critical look at the industry, the opposite is true. Bitcoin as created a new playground for greed, fraud, and speculation to run rampant.

5. As of November 2022, more than 51% of all bitcoin wallets are down vs. the price they bought in at. Meaning more than 51% of all people that have bought in have lost money. The 49% are people that bought in early, and have been extracting value from the system the whole time. And many of those early investors were already the uber rich, like Peter Thiel and doucebags like the Winklevoss twins https://slashdot.org/story/22/11/21/232218/more-than-50-of-bitcoin-addresses-are-now-in-loss
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First of I appreciate you taking the time to write a lengthy response. And I was wrong in that you do know more about the subject than I originally thought. I apologize.

That said, the first 3 points of your argument basically describes what gold is. Bitcoin being the digital version of gold does share these characteristics. I don't find it troubling that it does not work as an everyday currency the same way I don't try to use gold for everyday transaction. The fact that you can transact it easier than trying to transact in gold makes it even better than gold.

I'll go back to my original statement.

It's days like this that I appreciate BTC for its finite supply. It's 21 million total and nobody can change it.

Bitcoin being finite is one of the main reason why people deem it valuable. On a day where fiat gets debased, I appreciate this characteristic of bitcoin. By the way, I would say the same thing for gold as well.

As for your 4th point I don't have an answer for it. Is human greed the source of all the problems, perhaps. What I is see a system build solely on a monetory system that can be easily altered leading to these current problems and I would like to explore the option of a system built on a fixed monetory policy or even a system where both systems share a balance of power.

As for your last point I'm sure that number is a lot lower as of today. Again, one can always cherry pick a time frame to fit their narrative but I think nobody can argue that bitcoin in the long run has been increasing in value.

[anotherhomer]

I'm not sure if bitcoin will be the permanent crypto hedge but therea a good chance it will be around for a while

[anotherhomer]

i guess refshateto was right....friday was really the bottom FOR THIS CURRENT MARKET, until the next downturn in a few months

i honestly, thought monday would had been a bloodbath

so as a result, i'm doing not too bad, well until the next downturn.....basically my percentages doubled....so that's the other thing, so much volatility that in a week you can literally double your gain, or loss half of that gain

that said, i may had brought the wrong crypto stocks....i think some have better performance

bitcoin exposure +61/62%
ethereum exposure +63/40%
Crypto stocks: 35-75%'

Note: i'm not bragging but i could had easily been back to 10-15% overall or back to break even, had the week gone as bad as i originally thought it was

that said guys don't be greedy.....if you buy, do it knowing there could be a lot more volatility,
and if u swing trade, don't do it on your TFSA

that said, if you accept the fact, governments hate Crypto, there could be something blow it up, there'll be tons and tons of swings, and you got a few year horizon, it maybe a risk worth taking.....that said....i can't comment on the crypto outside of bitcoin or ethereum....those could blow up, or you could lose it all

[refshateRaps]

i guess refshateto was right....friday was really the bottom FOR THIS CURRENT MARKET, until the next downturn in a few months

i honestly, thought monday would had been a bloodbath

so as a result, i'm doing not too bad, well until the next downturn.....basically my percentages doubled....so that's the other thing, so much volatility that in a week you can literally double your gain, or loss half of that gain

that said, i may had brought the wrong crypto stocks....i think some have better performance

bitcoin exposure +61/62%
ethereum exposure +63/40%
Crypto stocks: 35-75%'

Note: i'm not bragging but i could had easily been back to 10-15% overall or back to break even, had the week gone as bad as i originally thought it was

that said guys don't be greedy.....if you buy, do it knowing there could be a lot more volatility,
and if u swing trade, don't do it on your TFSA

that said, if you accept the fact, governments hate Crypto, there could be something blow it up, there'll be tons and tons of swings, and you got a few year horizon, it maybe a risk worth taking.....that said....i can't comment on the crypto outside of bitcoin or ethereum....those could blow up, or you could lose it all

Yes, OPEX and Quad witching day today...
Rarely indicative of market direction and all about closing at prices as to extract a greater sum upon on expiry. These are the days when one should begin to realize they are sitting at a heavily controlled casino. The decent news for those not heavily impacted by the destructive, fear rituals is the greater casino also has very controlled pay-out periods post carnage where almost all the MMs and now algos are forced to flip bullish in near unison.

FOMC Wednesday afternoon, they likely either run us up into it or run out of it... Either way loading days on the market maker- margin shake-out, reversal candle days should be coming to a close next week.

If it is what I do believe it is, my friend... Ho Man! I'll be forced to take some very hefty profits over next 2-8 weeks on any euphoria. Time less relevant to me then actual targets. Also keeping a long term bull bias following any pull back.

What do I know? Follow you own reads.

All the best

[refshateRaps]

Friday Scoreboard & recap

$BTCUSD start of thread: 16,767.64

$BTCUSD current: 26,691.01

Scoreboard. Will update on Fridays

$BTCUSD start of thread: 16,767.64

$BTCUSD current: 20,422.18

Too much emotion on the pullbacks to talk bullish around here. We'll let the scoreboard talk and keep the theme simple, Bears don't wanna see this pull back as the cock back like a James Johnson bout to slam that $25K barrier. That simple. $25k break, gonna break the black hearts.

Disclaimer: (For those that need it every post.)

Most importanty, don't follow the sell-outs on TV. Always follow your gut, win or lose you'll always learn quicker on your own decisions.

'That was nasty right? I cocked that joint back and banged it on em'

Watch on YouTube

Some were so nice, respectful and friendly on Friday too, ya really hate to see it.

[Dino-Might]

You want a value proposition for Bitcoin? Here it is: imagine you live in Turkey, Argentina, Venezuala, Zimbabwe, Iran, Sudan, South Sudan, Liberia, Lebanon or any of these other countries with **** governments that don't know how to manage their economies. You're getting killed with inflation/currency devaluation. It isn't so easy to get your hands on real assets that aren't impacted by this. But you do have an internet connection.

Yeah, thats fair. BTC as an inflation hedge is a worth while narrative. But this is far from revolutionary. With an internet connection, those people could also buy gold, stocks, other currencies, etc.

How are you going to get the gold? Where are you going to store it? These aren't always easy questions depending where you live. Same thing with participating in foreign stock exchanges. Not always straight forward.

You need to be a Nigerian prince.

[anotherhomer]

Dude blew past thr 1700 and 27000 mark
That said, I prefer to hold. I dislike buying and selling on volatility

I say this....at this moment, I think there maybe opportunities for it to drop again


Maybe next week, few months or next year most likely....honestly, I'm looking to diversify elsewhere

Friday Scoreboard & recap

$BTCUSD start of thread: 16,767.64

$BTCUSD current: 26,691.01

Scoreboard. Will update on Fridays

$BTCUSD start of thread: 16,767.64

$BTCUSD current: 20,422.18

Too much emotion on the pullbacks to talk bullish around here. We'll let the scoreboard talk and keep the theme simple, Bears don't wanna see this pull back as the cock back like a James Johnson bout to slam that $25K barrier. That simple. $25k break, gonna break the black hearts.

Disclaimer: (For those that need it every post.)

Most importanty, don't follow the sell-outs on TV. Always follow your gut, win or lose you'll always learn quicker on your own decisions.

'That was nasty right? I cocked that joint back and banged it on em'

Watch on YouTube

Some were so nice, respectful and friendly on Friday too, ya really hate to see it.

[Agimat]

If I had known what I know now, this may sound ludicrous, but you can generate 5-6 figures upside without owning any asset, network, reputation, or money, and you wouldn't have needed to invest in crypto in such a volatile market.

Onlyfans I bet

Ummmm sex sells

but both are true, I'll soon write a post about it and maybe you guys could get some ideas from it, but companies like AirBnB and Uber are doing it and if you can imitate their business model and apply it to ourselves.

[El Mas Chingon]

You want a value proposition for Bitcoin? Here it is: imagine you live in Turkey, Argentina, Venezuala, Zimbabwe, Iran, Sudan, South Sudan, Liberia, Lebanon or any of these other countries with **** governments that don't know how to manage their economies. You're getting killed with inflation/currency devaluation. It isn't so easy to get your hands on real assets that aren't impacted by this. But you do have an internet connection.

Didn't work out to well for El Salvador.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/13/el-salvadors-bitcoin-holdings-down-60percent-to-60-million-one-year-later.html

El Salvador's Bitcoin experiment is not just economic. It's very geopolitical. The national currency is the US Dollar. That alone makes it vastly different than the above listed countries. The strength of the US Dollar in these inflationary times has actually helped the country.

5 years ago El Salvador severed ties with Taiwan. Moving to closer relations with China. That has royally pissed off western institutions like the IMF and World Bank. Not to mention the US. The article you posted is from October. There was consistent media coverage last year portraying the economic situation on an unavoidable path to default. In January the predicted catastrophe did not materialize. The country paid its debt and interest in full by the due date.

The economy in El Salavador is not formalized. Maybe 20% of jobs are officially registered. I.E. most people don't pay income tax. There is multi generational mistrust of the government due to a history of corruption. It was always going to be a hard sell to get locals to use a gov app for financial transactions. It didn't help that the app had issues from the get go.

Bitcoin was as much a PR move as an initial step to move away from the US Dollar. The ultimate goal is to have a Central American trading block and ideally (but close to impossible) Central American currency. You won't read about that in western media.

What you will read about is Honduras following El Salvador's lead and breaking ties with Taiwan and moving closer to China.

Are threats to the petro dollar positive or negative for bitcoin? I don't know. Is bitcoin the ultimate solution? I'm not sold.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/15/honduras-to-switch-ties-from-taiwan-to-china-says-president

[Johnny Bball]

I'm not sure if bitcoin will be the permanent crypto hedge but therea a good chance it will be around for a while

There's no chance its an infationary hedge since most of its drop was when rates were going up the most.

[BlackThought]

I'm not sure if bitcoin will be the permanent crypto hedge but therea a good chance it will be around for a while

There's no chance its an infationary hedge since most of its drop was when rates were going up the most.

On May 10th of 2020

Gold was $1704 per ounce
Bitcoin was $8756 per coin.

March 20 of 2023

Gold is $2003 per ounce
Bitcoin is $28000 per coin.

Neither are great inflation hedges but since the covid situation that led to this entire inflation problem, you would be better off holding bitcoin than gold.

[greekman]

need some advice. I'm heavily invested in oil stocks. should I sell now and switch to bitcoin stocks ? will oil recover ?

[Johnny Bball]

I'm not sure if bitcoin will be the permanent crypto hedge but therea a good chance it will be around for a while

There's no chance its an infationary hedge since most of its drop was when rates were going up the most.

On May 10th of 2020

Gold was $1704 per ounce
Bitcoin was $8756 per coin.

March 20 of 2023

Gold is $2003 per ounce
Bitcoin is $28000 per coin.

Neither are great inflation hedges but since the covid situation that led to this entire inflation problem, you would be better off holding bitcoin than gold.

Well since the beginning of covid wasn't the beginnning of inflation, this really isn't, in any way, meaningful. I could have bought AMD or any meme stock at the start of covd and sold it high and made a ton. AMD is not an inflationary hedge.