Team Canada Basketball Thread V4.0

[ItsDanger]

If Jamal plays, don't worry about the draw. The top teams we need to beat aren't in our group.

[mojo13]

Start winning they said. It will improve your ranking they said. That will avoid all these groups of death they said.

I don't know man...

Would you rather be with France, Germany or Serbia, USA? I'd argue these 4 plus Canada re the top 5 in the world right now.

Right now we have Australia (Top 6-10) and a possiblity of Spain (Top 6-10) AND Slovenia/Greece (Top 6-10). But perhaps neither.

[Mattd97]

Start winning they said. It will improve your ranking they said. That will avoid all these groups of death they said.

I don't know man...

Would you rather be with France, Germany or Serbia, USA? I'd argue these 4 plus Canada re the top 5 in the world right now.

Right now we have Australia (Top 6-10) and a possiblity of Spain (Top 6-10) AND Slovenia/Greece (Top 6-10). But perhaps neither.

We've both been around the program long enough for scars. Mine are deep enough I'm not putting us above any of the teams in our group until we see it consistently.

[frumble]

I am focused on the bottom team in each group and, barring major upsets in the qualifiers, Japan and SSD will be the two weakest by a decent margin. That gives the teams in those groups an advantage. Games against Japan and SSD will not be walkovers, but they will likely be considerably easier than games against Australia, Spain, or Greece/Slovenia/Croatia.

Given the format to move on to the quarters (top two from each group plus two of the three 3rd-place teams), having one game against a relatively easy opponent can make a huge difference. E.g., Germany could lose to France and Latvia but still make it through at 1-2 if they beat Japan by enough to have a decent point differential. It will also help with seeding for the next round.

If we go 2-1 it shouldn't matter, but I would feel better about our chances if we had Japan or SSD in our group.

Anyone hearing anything about big man availability and selection?

[Hair Canada]

Ugh. It's been a few months since we discussed this in detail, but my recollection was that there was an excellent chance we would have Japan or South Sudan in our group.

I don;t think any of us really understood the draw principles and probabilites.
I was shocked to see both Japan and South Sudan drawn ahead of OQT PUR only to pass over our Group A and forced into Group B and C.
It took me some time to figure out why. they treated all OQTs as Euro teams and had to have max. 3 (ok) and min. 2 (weird) Euro teams in each pool. Essentially once we got drawn with Australia we automatically were NOT getting Japan or South Sudan. Not sure anyone realized that before hand.

Thanks for the explanation - I did not realize that.

Anyone read the Cathal Kelly column in today's Globe and care to give a quick summary?
I am no longer a subcriber so can't access it.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-mens-olympic-basketball-team-faces-test-of-ambition-as-murray-and/

Thanks.

Honestly, not really worth reading. Mostly a bunch of cheap shots at Murray. Some representative excerpts:

Denver Nugget Jamal Murray is Canada’s other game-altering star. He did not take the pledge, but is full of excuses. He’s a little banged up or he’s in a contract year or the dog ate his plane ticket. Murray’s never shut Canada down exactly, but he misses a lot of phone calls. Murray begged off the 2023 FIBA championships where Canada finished a surprise third and qualified for Paris 2024. But he made sure to be there for the first photo-op.

“I still showed up for training camp. I was still around the guys,” Murray told reporters a few months ago. “I felt the vibe there, and they did a great job. They’re on the come up, and we’ve got enough guys to go out there and compete for gold next year.” Did you catch the slippery pronoun switch in there? ‘They’ qualified, but ‘we’ will be at the Olympics.

Should someone who did more than “feel the vibe” lose their place because Murray skipped rehearsals, but is raring to go for opening night?

Is it strictly fair that he didn’t do the hard work and gets to enjoy the glory? No, it isn’t. But if you want perfect fairness in sport, stick to T-ball... Perversely, the idea that a Murray will steal the spot of someone who never quite made the big time adds more flavour to the broth. That sort of brutality makes this story real, rather than comforting. It ratchets up the stakes... That assumes Murray is healthy, which you can never assume. The man has ankles that twist in a brisk wind.

If Murray wants to go, that’s fine, but he has to suffer for it. He should need to ask. If Canada blows up in Paris, he deserves more than everyone else’s share of the blame. He was the front-runner who messed up the chemistry.

[Hair Canada]

As for the draw, when we were talking about it a few months ago, Canada was sitting at #6 in the world, which meant it would have been in the second strength bracket. But Latvie was dagerously close and has since played some EuroBasket qualifiers, beating a depleted #2 Spain and passing Canada in the rankings. Though I'm not sure that would actually matter for the draw given FIBA's convoluted principles (which somehow alwasy seem to make sure Canada gets a harder group in the first stage).

[WaltFrazier]

Jamal tweaked his ankle late in the game tonight and came out. Don't think it's a bad sprain but still scary.

[WaltFrazier]

Captain Kelly Olynyk says let's take the best players

https://torontosun.com/sports/basketball/nba/toronto-raptors/dont-close-any-doors-canadian-captain-olynyk-says-of-adding-reinforcements-for-olympics

[mojo13]

As for the draw, when we were talking about it a few months ago, Canada was sitting at #6 in the world, which meant it would have been in the second strength bracket. But Latvie was dagerously close and has since played some EuroBasket qualifiers, beating a depleted #2 Spain and passing Canada in the rankings. Though I'm not sure that would actually matter for the draw given FIBA's convoluted principles (which somehow alwasy seem to make sure Canada gets a harder group in the first stage).

I doubt Canada will ever be in a probable position to get a "favourable" draw.

The geo balancing priciples push Canada towards European teams and Australia.
Nice that we are always forced to miss the USA, but that also pushes us away from the the rest of the America's teams. Which are mostly very favourable match-ups at this point. Australia is likely in a similar boat. Although life has been pretty easy for them as their qualfying path to majors is pretty simple - thus they tend to be overranked by FIBA and enjoy somewhat favourable draws. Of late their fan base is pretty whiny when Canada is in their draw. They are the ones crying Pool of Death for the Olympics, much more than Canadian fans.

Canada over the last 10 years has been underranked (but they earned that poor rankings) - the only reason we have had hard draws is becuase we are the strong team coming out of the lower Pots.

[mojo13]

Captain Kelly Olynyk says let's take the best players

https://torontosun.com/sports/basketball/nba/toronto-raptors/dont-close-any-doors-canadian-captain-olynyk-says-of-adding-reinforcements-for-olympics

yeah...that's not what he said.

[ItsDanger]

Olynyk is actually saying take the best players, if you read between the lines.

[tecumseh18]

I don;t think any of us really understood the draw principles and probabilites.
I was shocked to see both Japan and South Sudan drawn ahead of OQT PUR only to pass over our Group A and forced into Group B and C.
It took me some time to figure out why. they treated all OQTs as Euro teams and had to have max. 3 (ok) and min. 2 (weird) Euro teams in each pool. Essentially once we got drawn with Australia we automatically were NOT getting Japan or South Sudan. Not sure anyone realized that before hand.

Thanks for the explanation - I did not realize that.

Anyone read the Cathal Kelly column in today's Globe and care to give a quick summary?
I am no longer a subcriber so can't access it.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-mens-olympic-basketball-team-faces-test-of-ambition-as-murray-and/

Thanks.

Honestly, not really worth reading. Mostly a bunch of cheap shots at Murray. Some representative excerpts:

Denver Nugget Jamal Murray is Canada’s other game-altering star. He did not take the pledge, but is full of excuses. He’s a little banged up or he’s in a contract year or the dog ate his plane ticket. Murray’s never shut Canada down exactly, but he misses a lot of phone calls. Murray begged off the 2023 FIBA championships where Canada finished a surprise third and qualified for Paris 2024. But he made sure to be there for the first photo-op.

“I still showed up for training camp. I was still around the guys,” Murray told reporters a few months ago. “I felt the vibe there, and they did a great job. They’re on the come up, and we’ve got enough guys to go out there and compete for gold next year.” Did you catch the slippery pronoun switch in there? ‘They’ qualified, but ‘we’ will be at the Olympics.

Should someone who did more than “feel the vibe” lose their place because Murray skipped rehearsals, but is raring to go for opening night?

That's insane. I always used to like Kelly as a writer - at least he was creative and not boring - but this is not worthy of "Canada's national paper". Jamal has been around the program for a few years, and has either been legit hurt or just finished a (excellent) Finals run that he clearly needed to recover from. Hey, would Steve Nash and his bad back have played in the Olympics if he ever even made the NBA Finals?

Although I was a bit disappointed when Jamal and RJ didn't team up for a jersey swap in Denver a few weeks ago. All the focus was on the Porter brothers. They both dominated that fourth quarter. Is there bad blood between them?

[WaltFrazier]

Olynyk is actually saying take the best players, if you read between the lines.

Yes. He's not going to diss anyone, or name names. But he wants the best players, which means NBA guys.

[SharoneWright]

Olynyk is actually saying take the best players, if you read between the lines.

Yes. He's not going to diss anyone, or name names. But he wants the best players, which means NBA guys.

Good for Kelly.

The guiding principle is this: Imagine what Justin Trudeau would do, and do the opposite.

[DoctaJ]

Olynyk is actually saying take the best players, if you read between the lines.

Yes. He's not going to diss anyone, or name names. But he wants the best players, which means NBA guys.

Good for Kelly.

The guiding principle is this: Imagine what Justin Trudeau would do, and do the opposite.

[Mattd97]

As for the draw, when we were talking about it a few months ago, Canada was sitting at #6 in the world, which meant it would have been in the second strength bracket. But Latvie was dagerously close and has since played some EuroBasket qualifiers, beating a depleted #2 Spain and passing Canada in the rankings. Though I'm not sure that would actually matter for the draw given FIBA's convoluted principles (which somehow alwasy seem to make sure Canada gets a harder group in the first stage).

I doubt Canada will ever be in a probable position to get a "favourable" draw.

The geo balancing priciples push Canada towards European teams and Australia.
Nice that we are always forced to miss the USA, but that also pushes us away from the the rest of the America's teams. Which are mostly very favourable match-ups at this point. Australia is likely in a similar boat. Although life has been pretty easy for them as their qualfying path to majors is pretty simple - thus they tend to be overranked by FIBA and enjoy somewhat favourable draws. Of late their fan base is pretty whiny when Canada is in their draw. They are the ones crying Pool of Death for the Olympics, much more than Canadian fans.

Canada over the last 10 years has been underranked (but they earned that poor rankings) - the only reason we have had hard draws is becuase we are the strong team coming out of the lower Pots.

I think it actually better to be in the US's group too really. Id much rather lose a round robin game and finish second in my group than play the USA in the knock out rounds.

[Mattd97]

Honestly, not really worth reading. Mostly a bunch of cheap shots at Murray. Some representative excerpts:

Denver Nugget Jamal Murray is Canada’s other game-altering star. He did not take the pledge, but is full of excuses. He’s a little banged up or he’s in a contract year or the dog ate his plane ticket. Murray’s never shut Canada down exactly, but he misses a lot of phone calls. Murray begged off the 2023 FIBA championships where Canada finished a surprise third and qualified for Paris 2024. But he made sure to be there for the first photo-op.

“I still showed up for training camp. I was still around the guys,” Murray told reporters a few months ago. “I felt the vibe there, and they did a great job. They’re on the come up, and we’ve got enough guys to go out there and compete for gold next year.” Did you catch the slippery pronoun switch in there? ‘They’ qualified, but ‘we’ will be at the Olympics.

Should someone who did more than “feel the vibe” lose their place because Murray skipped rehearsals, but is raring to go for opening night?

Is it strictly fair that he didn’t do the hard work and gets to enjoy the glory? No, it isn’t. But if you want perfect fairness in sport, stick to T-ball... Perversely, the idea that a Murray will steal the spot of someone who never quite made the big time adds more flavour to the broth. That sort of brutality makes this story real, rather than comforting. It ratchets up the stakes... That assumes Murray is healthy, which you can never assume. The man has ankles that twist in a brisk wind.

If Murray wants to go, that’s fine, but he has to suffer for it. He should need to ask. If Canada blows up in Paris, he deserves more than everyone else’s share of the blame. He was the front-runner who messed up the chemistry.

Guys can skip all they like, but with all the admonishment that Wiggins has gotten for years, its more than fair to call out Murray.
Wiggins has had his issues this year that may keep him off, but last summer he was our third best player and people were keeping him off for these same exact reasons

[mojo13]

Honestly, not really worth reading. Mostly a bunch of cheap shots at Murray. Some representative excerpts:

Denver Nugget Jamal Murray is Canada’s other game-altering star. He did not take the pledge, but is full of excuses. He’s a little banged up or he’s in a contract year or the dog ate his plane ticket. Murray’s never shut Canada down exactly, but he misses a lot of phone calls. Murray begged off the 2023 FIBA championships where Canada finished a surprise third and qualified for Paris 2024. But he made sure to be there for the first photo-op.

“I still showed up for training camp. I was still around the guys,” Murray told reporters a few months ago. “I felt the vibe there, and they did a great job. They’re on the come up, and we’ve got enough guys to go out there and compete for gold next year.” Did you catch the slippery pronoun switch in there? ‘They’ qualified, but ‘we’ will be at the Olympics.

Should someone who did more than “feel the vibe” lose their place because Murray skipped rehearsals, but is raring to go for opening night?

Is it strictly fair that he didn’t do the hard work and gets to enjoy the glory? No, it isn’t. But if you want perfect fairness in sport, stick to T-ball... Perversely, the idea that a Murray will steal the spot of someone who never quite made the big time adds more flavour to the broth. That sort of brutality makes this story real, rather than comforting. It ratchets up the stakes... That assumes Murray is healthy, which you can never assume. The man has ankles that twist in a brisk wind.

If Murray wants to go, that’s fine, but he has to suffer for it. He should need to ask. If Canada blows up in Paris, he deserves more than everyone else’s share of the blame. He was the front-runner who messed up the chemistry.

Guys can skip all they like, but with all the admonishment that Wiggins has gotten for years, its more than fair to call out Murray.
Wiggins has had his issues this year that may keep him off, but last summer he was our third best player and people were keeping him off for these same exact reasons

Seeing Murray at camp wearing Team Canada gear each of the last two summers goes a long way for optics.
Hearing him talk glowingly about the SMNT, the players, the coach and his desire to play for Canada matter tremendously as well.

We don't get that from Wiggins. We don't see him hanging around the team, even if he has no intention of playing. We don;t see him at camp, even in street clothes. We get humms and haws and maybes when he is asked if he wants to play. He even was quoted that he wouldn't lose sleep over it if he doesn't. That his perogative - maybe he is just being honest and Murray is feeding us what we need to hear, but you can see how the fans may not line up in Wiggins corner like they do Murray. Heck...even when Wiggs has near as many SMNT caps as someone like TT, we still crap on him (and love Murray when he has zero caps).

I'm pretty critical of Murray and how he's really never played for Canada since turning pro. He is a bit of an injury prone player who is legit banged up most summers (if not outright injured). But even I can admit it really seems he truely, deeply WANTS to play for Canada. That matters. And it is not soemthing I can usually say about Wiggins (or Boucher or Clarke or Lyles).

[WaltFrazier]

Jamal missing his 4th game. Not good.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39835306/nuggets-jamal-murray-misses-4th-straight-improvement

[SharoneWright]

Regardless of the Worlds experience, we're gonna need Edey in the Olympics. He's not ready. But we have no size. And the rules will help.

We need at least 12 Edey minutes against a host of bigs, including but not limited to, the USA of A.