Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV)

[akakalakin]

Masai admitted tanking and Raptors were penalized by the NBA several years ago. Curious why not this year

you got it mixed up with bryan colangelo

uh no ,absolutely Masai

[Bruin]

Potentially good news for the Olympic team too

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=6Hx3ZCSHlysihvhqh0K3hw

[islandboy53]

Masai admitted tanking and Raptors were penalized by the NBA several years ago. Curious why not this year

you got it mixed up with bryan colangelo

uh no ,absolutely Masai

This is from April, 2021. There's no reference to any "admission of tanking" for obvious reasons. Equally obviously, they haven't been fined this year because they're complying with league policies.

"The NBA announced today that the Toronto Raptors have been fined $25,000 for failing to comply with league policies governing player rest and injury reporting."

[deck]

Stop trying to use logic and make sense. The naysayers will still ask same one-dimensional, static question that they always ask: how many teams have won a championship by just tanking (i.e., how many teams have won a championship by tanking and keeping all of their drafted players, but did not trade any of those draftees for other players, because adding that proviso would destroy the reason I am asking the original question)?

I agree with you: tank for a purpose, even if it's for a few seasons. We don't have to keep all the players we tanked for. That has to be emphasized over and over again. Our 2018-19 championship won in part to shrewd trades of our top 10 drafted players (e.g., DD + Poeltl for Leonard, JV for Gasol).

I think that's what tank naysayers are afraid of -- that tanking actually works if it is done dynamically. Hence why they have to focus their question, stated above, with the stipulation that tanking teams aren't allowed to trade their players..

Right, but we didn't tank to get DD, JV, or Ross. And in the years following 2013/2014 we also didn't gut the team for draft picks to try to get a generational talent through the draft. A significant amount of disagreement on the board is simply a definition problem regarding the word 'tank'. We didn't make any tanking moves leading up to 2019, we actually did the opposite in that the team was always incrementally improving going back to 2010-ish time frame. This has been debated many times, and I've never seen anyone put forward a coherent argument that 2019 is somehow the result of tanking.

Tanking by definition means making your team purposefully bad in hopes of drafting future players, either by sitting healthy players, or by trading players away for future draft compensation. The Raptors have done this twice (of their own volition) in the entire history of our franchise; first to get Barnes, and again this year after trading Siakam.

Very few if anyone will debate that getting talent via the draft is a plausible way to improve a team. I also suspect very few people had a problem with shutting down Lowry in 2021 to move up in the draft to get Barnes. Plenty of people though likely see the inherent problems with trading away your best players for draft picks, as the timelines involved in those kinds of moves are typically half decades rather than one or two seasons. It's also why GMs are likely not going to favour those options, as they will likely be fired before the franchise exits that kind of tanking.

I'm not sure on the history there.

I thought the Raptors definitely tanked in 2010-11 for JV after Bosh left. They finished third worst with 22 wins but that was when the lottery was just top 3 and they slipped 2 spots during the Young Gunz/Onez era. They then tanked again in strike shortened 2012 with JV playing at home. They were one win away from getting Lillard but instead slipped to 8th on a Ben Uzoh triple double W vs Nets leading to Coin Toss Ross. For 2012-2013 Colangelo "accelerated the rebuild" to disastrous results which lead to him getting fired/Masai hired and sent a 1-5 & 15-30 playoff protected draft pick to Houston for Lowry.

They didn't tank for DD in 2009 though, they were just bad which I'm sure played a large part in Bosh leaving. And they were also a lottery team in 2010 with a 40-42 record selecting Davis 13th.

And definitely agree on the 2013 to 2019 era. Lots of calls for tanking but never happened.

Raptors under Masai have been situational tankers. 2021 in Tampa and then this year once Scottie went down. I don't think they tank next year but I really think they should. They are going to be one Poeltl trade or injury away from bad.

That's kind of what I mean by 'own volition'. Bosh forced his way out, and that off season (2010) we still tried to make moves to improve, like signing Kleiza. We also didn't move anyone for draft picks; we instead made lateral trades (Turkoglu for Barbosa). I would concede that we did sign a bunch of 1 year contracts that year in December (2011) that were all terrible, so maybe by this point the team was resigned to the season being a write-off, and were tanking.

In 2011/2012, we were actually sending draft picks out (a 1st for James Johnson), and were again signing players ostensibly to improve (Mikael Peitrus). Maybe without these moves we would have landed Lillard.

So I would concede a situational tank in 2010/2011 due to Bosh forcing his way out, but regardless, to claim 2019 is attributable to tanking is still extremely tenuous.

[LoveMyRaps]

Potentially good news for the Olympic team too

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=6Hx3ZCSHlysihvhqh0K3hw

Would they actually play him this late in the season?

[LoveMyRaps]

10 games left

Wish we could sim the rest

maybe we get 1 win

should secure 6

Hopefully we're able create enough separation with the Grizzlies by April 9th, so we can take the game against the Pacers seriously and potentially win.

[ArthurVandelay]

10 games left

Wish we could sim the rest

maybe we get 1 win

should secure 6

Hopefully we're able create enough separation with the Grizzlies by April 9th, so we can take the game against the Pacers seriously and potentially win.

That would be awesome

Our own (twisted) version of a play in game lol

[2019nbachamps]

Dudes need to stop with the false narrative we’re tanking now. We were cheeks with OG/Siakam and cheeks after trading them. The recent injuries forced our FO’s hand. Let’s hope we get lucky in the lotto and keep our pick. I won’t be surprised if we try to win again next season and end up in a similar position. Anyways, I can stomach losing now that we’re clearly focusing on development. A year too late but better than never.

[Johnny Bball]

Dudes need to stop with the false narrative we’re tanking now. We were cheeks with OG/Siakam and cheeks after trading them. The recent injuries forced our FO’s hand. Let’s hope we get lucky in the lotto and keep our pick. I won’t be surprised if we try to win again next season and end up in a similar position. Anyways, I can stomach losing now that we’re clearly focusing on development. A year too late but better than never.

Wut?

[WuTang_OG]

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302746&page=56

[KL78192020]

Dudes need to stop with the false narrative we’re tanking now. We were cheeks with OG/Siakam and cheeks after trading them. The recent injuries forced our FO’s hand. Let’s hope we get lucky in the lotto and keep our pick. I won’t be surprised if we try to win again next season and end up in a similar position. Anyways, I can stomach losing now that we’re clearly focusing on development. A year too late but better than never.

Wut?

I think he’s saying this team sucked regardless, even before the deadline with Siakam and OG. Although they wouldn’t be losing this much if Barnes, and co were healthy.

[DelAbbot]

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302746&page=56

Sounds very logical and reasonable.

[DelAbbot]

I'm still waiting for the next win so I can go NinjaBro

Shut this baby down!!

[Johnny Bball]

Dudes need to stop with the false narrative we’re tanking now. We were cheeks with OG/Siakam and cheeks after trading them. The recent injuries forced our FO’s hand. Let’s hope we get lucky in the lotto and keep our pick. I won’t be surprised if we try to win again next season and end up in a similar position. Anyways, I can stomach losing now that we’re clearly focusing on development. A year too late but better than never.

Wut?

I think he’s saying this team sucked regardless, even before the deadline with Siakam and OG. Although they wouldn’t be losing this much if Barnes, and co were healthy.

Well, they sure as hell wouldn't be playing ten deep, starting Olynyk at C, and someone would have been back from injury I'm sure.

They are tanking. But sure, the injuries to Barnes and Poeltl started it or were the reason for it.

I can't quite understand the desire to keep the pick so badly when it's likely at the cost of that is next years pick. I'm guessing, the FO decided a top 6 pick now vs their optimistic outlook that next years' pick might/will be non-lottery. Except, they still have to find a way to get this team out of the lottery....

[Scase]

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302746&page=56

Sounds very logical and reasonable.

Weird how so many people can identify that we were never tanking until the entire roster went out, yet so many pro compete/Masai people on here want to claim that "This is what you tankers wanted" all the time. Masai didn't tank in Tampa, and he ain't tanking this year.

[DelAbbot]

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302746&page=56

Sounds very logical and reasonable.

Weird how so many people can identify that we were never tanking until the entire roster went out, yet so many pro compete/Masai people on here want to claim that "This is what you tankers wanted" all the time. Masai didn't tank in Tampa, and he ain't tanking this year.

Looking back to Tampa, he did tank after the TDL, and it was masterful in that we played many games with one or two starters and remained competitive and still lost. It was much more fun / exciting to cheer for losses when it's not guaranteed like these days.

[WuTang_OG]

Sounds very logical and reasonable.

Weird how so many people can identify that we were never tanking until the entire roster went out, yet so many pro compete/Masai people on here want to claim that "This is what you tankers wanted" all the time. Masai didn't tank in Tampa, and he ain't tanking this year.

Looking back to Tampa, he did tank after the TDL, and it was masterful in that we played many games with one or two starters and remained competitive and still lost. It was much more fun / exciting to cheer for losses when it's not guaranteed like these days.

they sat out everyone that year. they clearly tanked once season got lost. he's admitted it a bunch

MASAI UJIRI: Yeah, so it's patience, really. When you have young players, we have to always be patient, we have to be. And it's not going to go good all the time. I sat here and told you guys it's not going to be pretty. I think you guys remember that. It's going to be up and down. That's just how development works, how building works. But their mindset, the mindset has to be winning.

However you look at it, last year, the Tampa tank year, we won.

[DelAbbot]

The high points of my Raptors fandom was playoffs 2019 and Tampa season after TDL

The dopamine / memories from those time periods I will take to my grave.

[Scase]

Sounds very logical and reasonable.

Weird how so many people can identify that we were never tanking until the entire roster went out, yet so many pro compete/Masai people on here want to claim that "This is what you tankers wanted" all the time. Masai didn't tank in Tampa, and he ain't tanking this year.

Looking back to Tampa, he did tank after the TDL, and it was masterful in that we played many games with one or two starters and remained competitive and still lost. It was much more fun / exciting to cheer for losses when it's not guaranteed like these days.

Not really, we were playing a full starting lineup until there were 22 games left in the season. And even then, we still had Siakam/OG/GTJ playing after that. Siakam/OG/GTJ were playing in game 55 of 72, it was only in game 57 of 72 where we had only one starter playing. I wouldn't call shutting the SL down with 15 games left in the season tanking personally.

For additional context, that first game with no starters (GTJ was playing but we can give that a pass) was April 18th, with the final game of the season being May 16th, 14 games left in the season.

[ArthurVandelay]

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302746&page=56

I'm officially convinced no fanbase is ever happy....

so we traded poetlt away for nothing.Should just traded him to boston