Tank World Order (The Remix Vol. IV)

[Scase]

I'm sorry, I am not exactly sure what point you're trying to make. The team was bad, but didn't want to be, and then they traded their best players and got worse...which is not tanking?

Does it have to come from the Process region of Philadelphia to count? And why is this an important hill for everyone to die on?

The team got marginally worse.This is what you seem to be missing. The team didn't bottom out and be horrendous going for as good as a pick as possible. They traded for players in their 4/5th years to be the core moving forward, not rookies/prospects or high picks. I never stated it was a hill to die on, you felt the need to be antagonistic about the definition of the word tank.

I'm not really understanding the argument. Is Memphis tanking this season?

1. We've clearly held guys out, significantly lowering our chances to win, since the trades.

2. The trades themselves completely neutered our ability to withstand a Barnes injury. Why is that not part of the tanking calculus? We had 3 very good forwards. We traded two, getting no forwards back in return, resulting in a lineup so thin, that an injury makes us the worst team in the league... That's tanking. Again is Memphis tanking?

Are we expecting to get guys back healthy, and try and push for the playoffs as soon as next season? Ya. I would think so. That doesn't mean they aren't tanking right now.

We're overtly tanking now, since the Barnes/Jak injuries. Prior to that you could easily argue it's a retool.

The trades didn't neuter the ability to withstand anything. We were at a .390 winning percentage with the entire lineup prior to the trades. Take Barnes out of that lineup and the wins crater, take Barnes out of this one, and they crater. It's the same thing. Bad team before, marginally worse team now.

Memphis lost damn near their entire team to injuries, they are just bad due to that. They definitely have leaned into it more as of late with some dubious scratches. We only held people out since the major injuries, if no injuries occurred, we'd be playing a full starting lineup as we did right before the injuries.

We don't have a horrendous roster, we have one that is good enough to eek out enough wins to keep out of the absolute bottom of the league.

Tanking is about intent, half a season of bad basketball is not tanking, TO ME, it's bad basketball.

where is the "tanking doesn't work" crowd to chastise the FO for the tank.

Flip flopping and defending because Masai now has picks in this draft.

[Fairview4Life]

I'm sorry, I am not exactly sure what point you're trying to make. The team was bad, but didn't want to be, and then they traded their best players and got worse...which is not tanking?

Does it have to come from the Process region of Philadelphia to count? And why is this an important hill for everyone to die on?

The team got marginally worse.This is what you seem to be missing. The team didn't bottom out and be horrendous going for as good as a pick as possible. They traded for players in their 4/5th years to be the core moving forward, not rookies/prospects or high picks. I never stated it was a hill to die on, you felt the need to be antagonistic about the definition of the word tank.

I'm not really understanding the argument. Is Memphis tanking this season?

1. We've clearly held guys out, significantly lowering our chances to win, since the trades.

2. The trades themselves completely neutered our ability to withstand a Barnes injury. Why is that not part of the tanking calculus? We had 3 very good forwards. We traded two, getting no forwards back in return, resulting in a lineup so thin, that an injury makes us the worst team in the league... That's tanking. Again is Memphis tanking?

Are we expecting to get guys back healthy, and try and push for the playoffs as soon as next season? Ya. I would think so. That doesn't mean they aren't tanking right now.

We're overtly tanking now, since the Barnes/Jak injuries. Prior to that you could easily argue it's a retool.

The trades didn't neuter the ability to withstand anything. We were at a .390 winning percentage with the entire lineup prior to the trades. Take Barnes out of that lineup and the wins crater, take Barnes out of this one, and they crater. It's the same thing. Bad team before, marginally worse team now.

Memphis lost damn near their entire team to injuries, they are just bad due to that. They definitely have leaned into it more as of late with some dubious scratches. We only held people out since the major injuries, if no injuries occurred, we'd be playing a full starting lineup as we did right before the injuries.

We don't have a horrendous roster, we have one that is good enough to eek out enough wins to keep out of the absolute bottom of the league.

Tanking is about intent, half a season of bad basketball is not tanking, TO ME, it's bad basketball.

So the Spurs didn't tank for Tim Duncan? Only a full on Philly tank counts to you? I think tanking means something different. I think the 06/07 Wolves tanked halfway through the year. They intended to lose games and even very famously had Mark Madsen shoot a bunch of threes in game 82. I think the Warriors tanked to close out the year they out coin flipped us. We also tried to tank that year and got got by some scrubs playing for a contract.

I think we tanked in the Tampa year and are tanking right now.

[Duffman100]

Tanking means like 17 different things now.

[dohboy_24]

Tanking for the most part is intentional, and usually reserved for most/all of a season.

We'll finish with a worse record this year, because we had a worse team. We were 10 games below .500 when we traded Siakam and 12-20 when we traded OG. We were just bad.

We went 16-25 with Siakam for a .390 winning percentage.
We went 5-11 after he was traded up until barnes was injured, for a .312 winning percentage.

This is a retool that pivoted into an unexpected tank with 26 games left in the season out of sheer necessity.

OK, so we were playing bad before we traded OG (37.5% win percentage) and Siakam (39% winning percentage or 10 games below .500) and didn't play very well during the 16 games before Scottie was injured (31% winning percentage), but that's not most/all of the season?

Are you suggesting our tank wasn't intentional or bad enough (i.e. Detroit, Washington, San Antonio, Charlotte with less than 25% winning percentages) to be considered one before we pivoted into an unexpected tank with 26 games left in the season?

Not to mention, you don't typically tank and trade for established 4/5 year players.

Should it only be a single down year before we return to the play-in/playoffs, trading for more established players who are more well-known commodities who can fill defined roles is more ideal than having more prospects who need to develop and grow (i.e. Gradey Dick, Ochai Agbaji) alongside Scottie as the #1 guy - especially when we could possibly have three (3) first round picks playing for the team next year that we're already going to have to work with on a daily basis for the next few years before they can reach their full potential.

[KL78192020]

Wut?

I think he’s saying this team sucked regardless, even before the deadline with Siakam and OG. Although they wouldn’t be losing this much if Barnes, and co were healthy.

Well, they sure as hell wouldn't be playing ten deep, starting Olynyk at C, and someone would have been back from injury I'm sure.

They are tanking. But sure, the injuries to Barnes and Poeltl started it or were the reason for it.

I can't quite understand the desire to keep the pick so badly when it's likely at the cost of that is next years pick. I'm guessing, the FO decided a top 6 pick now vs their optimistic outlook that next years' pick might/will be non-lottery. Except, they still have to find a way to get this team out of the lottery....

Well I bet the hope is to make the playoffs next year so the pick will be 15-20 range. So is the 16th pick better next year vs the 6th pick this year. They could also just pivot again next year, if the team record is 15-25 halfway into the season next year they might just tank again.

[islandboy53]

Tanking means like 17 different things now.

I was today years old when I learned that it’s not tanking if you don’t do it for the whole year. Which seems to put the whole “Tampa Tank” in question. What were we actually doing that year?

[islandboy53]

The team got marginally worse.This is what you seem to be missing. The team didn't bottom out and be horrendous going for as good as a pick as possible. They traded for players in their 4/5th years to be the core moving forward, not rookies/prospects or high picks. I never stated it was a hill to die on, you felt the need to be antagonistic about the definition of the word tank.



We're overtly tanking now, since the Barnes/Jak injuries. Prior to that you could easily argue it's a retool.

The trades didn't neuter the ability to withstand anything. We were at a .390 winning percentage with the entire lineup prior to the trades. Take Barnes out of that lineup and the wins crater, take Barnes out of this one, and they crater. It's the same thing. Bad team before, marginally worse team now.

Memphis lost damn near their entire team to injuries, they are just bad due to that. They definitely have leaned into it more as of late with some dubious scratches. We only held people out since the major injuries, if no injuries occurred, we'd be playing a full starting lineup as we did right before the injuries.

We don't have a horrendous roster, we have one that is good enough to eek out enough wins to keep out of the absolute bottom of the league.

Tanking is about intent, half a season of bad basketball is not tanking, TO ME, it's bad basketball.

where is the "tanking doesn't work" crowd to chastise the FO for the tank.

Flip flopping and defending because Masai now has picks in this draft.

Everyone loves a good situational tank.

[akakalakin]

you got it mixed up with bryan colangelo

uh no ,absolutely Masai

This is from April, 2021. There's no reference to any "admission of tanking" for obvious reasons. Equally obviously, they haven't been fined this year because they're complying with league policies.

"The NBA announced today that the Toronto Raptors have been fined $25,000 for failing to comply with league policies governing player rest and injury reporting."

Masai Ujiri “Last year, the Tampa tank year, we won. You know why we won? Scottie Barnes.”

[DelAbbot]

Tanking means like 17 different things now.

Any losing that contributes to ping pong balls / draft odds is tanking

[Fairview4Life]

Tanking means like 17 different things now.

Any losing that contributes to ping pong balls / draft odds is tanking

Then reply to Scase, not duffman.

[Scase]

Tanking for the most part is intentional, and usually reserved for most/all of a season.

We'll finish with a worse record this year, because we had a worse team. We were 10 games below .500 when we traded Siakam and 12-20 when we traded OG. We were just bad.

We went 16-25 with Siakam for a .390 winning percentage.
We went 5-11 after he was traded up until barnes was injured, for a .312 winning percentage.

This is a retool that pivoted into an unexpected tank with 26 games left in the season out of sheer necessity.

OK, so we were playing bad before we traded OG (37.5% win percentage) and Siakam (39% winning percentage or 10 games below .500) and didn't play very well during the 16 games before Scottie was injured (31% winning percentage), but that's not most/all of the season?

Are you suggesting our tank wasn't intentional or bad enough (i.e. Detroit, Washington, San Antonio, Charlotte with less than 25% winning percentages) to be considered one before we pivoted into an unexpected tank with 26 games left in the season?

Not to mention, you don't typically tank and trade for established 4/5 year players.

Should it only be a single down year before we return to the play-in/playoffs, trading for more established players who are more well-known commodities who can fill defined roles is more ideal than having more prospects who need to develop and grow (i.e. Gradey Dick, Ochai Agbaji) alongside Scottie as the #1 guy - especially when we could possibly have three (3) first round picks playing for the team next year that we're already going to have to work with on a daily basis for the next few years before they can reach their full potential.

Are you suggesting that while we had OG and Siakam on the team we were tanking?

I can fully understand if people want to consider trading those 2 away as when the tank began, I don't agree but I can see the rationale. But there is no way anyone can reliably argue we've been tanking the whole season. So at best we started "tanking" 41 games into the season once Siakam was gone. I would hardly call that the majority of the season.

And my argument is that we didn't go into full tank until the injuries, which again was with like 25 games remaining. I'm by no means suggesting my definition of tanking is the be all end all, but there has got to be at least a base line, and 41 games would have to be the absolute earliest anyone could realistically call this a tank.

Prior to the injuries we were running a full starting 5, and giving limited to no minutes to the rookies/bad players we have. Sacrificing winning to focus on development is a pretty key part of actual tanking.

Prior vs Post Scottie injury :

Ochai 14.2mpg vs 24.5mpg
Nwora 11.7mpg vs 16mpg
Gradey 15.3mpg vs 28.8mpg
McDaniels 8.8mpg vs 13mpg
Jontay 13mpg vs 15.8mpg

Sure looks a lot more like we are sacrificing wins for development there. I get it, more injuries = more minutes, but lets not pretend that there wasn't a very obvious shift since the injuries occurred.

[islandboy53]

Tanking for the most part is intentional, and usually reserved for most/all of a season.

We'll finish with a worse record this year, because we had a worse team. We were 10 games below .500 when we traded Siakam and 12-20 when we traded OG. We were just bad.

We went 16-25 with Siakam for a .390 winning percentage.
We went 5-11 after he was traded up until barnes was injured, for a .312 winning percentage.

This is a retool that pivoted into an unexpected tank with 26 games left in the season out of sheer necessity.

OK, so we were playing bad before we traded OG (37.5% win percentage) and Siakam (39% winning percentage or 10 games below .500) and didn't play very well during the 16 games before Scottie was injured (31% winning percentage), but that's not most/all of the season?

Are you suggesting our tank wasn't intentional or bad enough (i.e. Detroit, Washington, San Antonio, Charlotte with less than 25% winning percentages) to be considered one before we pivoted into an unexpected tank with 26 games left in the season?

Not to mention, you don't typically tank and trade for established 4/5 year players.

Should it only be a single down year before we return to the play-in/playoffs, trading for more established players who are more well-known commodities who can fill defined roles is more ideal than having more prospects who need to develop and grow (i.e. Gradey Dick, Ochai Agbaji) alongside Scottie as the #1 guy - especially when we could possibly have three (3) first round picks playing for the team next year that we're already going to have to work with on a daily basis for the next few years before they can reach their full potential.

Are you suggesting that while we had OG and Siakam on the team we were tanking?

I can fully understand if people want to consider trading those 2 away as when the tank began, I don't agree but I can see the rationale. But there is no way anyone can reliably argue we've been tanking the whole season. So at best we started "tanking" 41 games into the season once Siakam was gone. I would hardly call that the majority of the season.

And my argument is that we didn't go into full tank until the injuries, which again was with like 25 games remaining. I'm by no means suggesting my definition of tanking is the be all end all, but there has got to be at least a base line, and 41 games would have to be the absolute earliest anyone could realistically call this a tank.

Prior to the injuries we were running a full starting 5, and giving limited to no minutes to the rookies/bad players we have. Sacrificing winning to focus on development is a pretty key part of actual tanking.

Prior vs Post Scottie injury :

Ochai 14.2mpg vs 24.5mpg
Nwora 11.7mpg vs 16mpg
Gradey 15.3mpg vs 28.8mpg
McDaniels 8.8mpg vs 13mpg
Jontay 13mpg vs 15.8mpg

Sure looks a lot more like we are sacrificing wins for development there. I get it, more injuries = more minutes, but lets not pretend that there wasn't a very obvious shift since the injuries occurred.

Everyone agrees that we are tanking. Even you. Except that you are creating this bizarre “definition” that requires a team to play this way for a whole season, or at least 41 games, for it to qualify as a real tank. Which means Portland and Washington weren’t really tanking last year, though they are now. Of course, you’re welcome to use this “definition” for your own purposes. Just don’t expect anyone else to do the same.

[Psubs]

Welcome back Mitchell Robinson!

[ArthurVandelay]

OK, so we were playing bad before we traded OG (37.5% win percentage) and Siakam (39% winning percentage or 10 games below .500) and didn't play very well during the 16 games before Scottie was injured (31% winning percentage), but that's not most/all of the season?

Are you suggesting our tank wasn't intentional or bad enough (i.e. Detroit, Washington, San Antonio, Charlotte with less than 25% winning percentages) to be considered one before we pivoted into an unexpected tank with 26 games left in the season?




Should it only be a single down year before we return to the play-in/playoffs, trading for more established players who are more well-known commodities who can fill defined roles is more ideal than having more prospects who need to develop and grow (i.e. Gradey Dick, Ochai Agbaji) alongside Scottie as the #1 guy - especially when we could possibly have three (3) first round picks playing for the team next year that we're already going to have to work with on a daily basis for the next few years before they can reach their full potential.

Are you suggesting that while we had OG and Siakam on the team we were tanking?

I can fully understand if people want to consider trading those 2 away as when the tank began, I don't agree but I can see the rationale. But there is no way anyone can reliably argue we've been tanking the whole season. So at best we started "tanking" 41 games into the season once Siakam was gone. I would hardly call that the majority of the season.

And my argument is that we didn't go into full tank until the injuries, which again was with like 25 games remaining. I'm by no means suggesting my definition of tanking is the be all end all, but there has got to be at least a base line, and 41 games would have to be the absolute earliest anyone could realistically call this a tank.

Prior to the injuries we were running a full starting 5, and giving limited to no minutes to the rookies/bad players we have. Sacrificing winning to focus on development is a pretty key part of actual tanking.

Prior vs Post Scottie injury :

Ochai 14.2mpg vs 24.5mpg
Nwora 11.7mpg vs 16mpg
Gradey 15.3mpg vs 28.8mpg
McDaniels 8.8mpg vs 13mpg
Jontay 13mpg vs 15.8mpg

Sure looks a lot more like we are sacrificing wins for development there. I get it, more injuries = more minutes, but lets not pretend that there wasn't a very obvious shift since the injuries occurred.

Everyone agrees that we are tanking. Even you. Except that you are creating this bizarre “definition” that requires a team to play this way for a whole season, or at least 41 games, for it to qualify as a real tank. Which means Portland and Washington weren’t really tanking last year, though they are now. Of course, you’re welcome to use this “definition” for your own purposes. Just don’t expect anyone else to do the same.

Gotta consistently poop on Masai

Now that the tank is obvious and Masai is doing exactly what was wanted by many (just not fast enough), have to now change what tanking actually means to keep the hate on. It’s exhausting.

[islandboy53]

Are you suggesting that while we had OG and Siakam on the team we were tanking?

I can fully understand if people want to consider trading those 2 away as when the tank began, I don't agree but I can see the rationale. But there is no way anyone can reliably argue we've been tanking the whole season. So at best we started "tanking" 41 games into the season once Siakam was gone. I would hardly call that the majority of the season.

And my argument is that we didn't go into full tank until the injuries, which again was with like 25 games remaining. I'm by no means suggesting my definition of tanking is the be all end all, but there has got to be at least a base line, and 41 games would have to be the absolute earliest anyone could realistically call this a tank.

Prior to the injuries we were running a full starting 5, and giving limited to no minutes to the rookies/bad players we have. Sacrificing winning to focus on development is a pretty key part of actual tanking.

Prior vs Post Scottie injury :

Ochai 14.2mpg vs 24.5mpg
Nwora 11.7mpg vs 16mpg
Gradey 15.3mpg vs 28.8mpg
McDaniels 8.8mpg vs 13mpg
Jontay 13mpg vs 15.8mpg

Sure looks a lot more like we are sacrificing wins for development there. I get it, more injuries = more minutes, but lets not pretend that there wasn't a very obvious shift since the injuries occurred.

Everyone agrees that we are tanking. Even you. Except that you are creating this bizarre “definition” that requires a team to play this way for a whole season, or at least 41 games, for it to qualify as a real tank. Which means Portland and Washington weren’t really tanking last year, though they are now. Of course, you’re welcome to use this “definition” for your own purposes. Just don’t expect anyone else to do the same.

Gotta consistently poop on Masai

Now that the tank is obvious and Masai is doing exactly what was wanted by many (just not fast enough), have to now change what tanking actually means to keep the hate on. It’s exhausting.

Mind boggling. Can you imagine working, or living, with someone like this?

[2019nbachamps]

We tanked in Tampa. We were 2 games out of the playoffs after COVID hit us yet we gave up on the season for a lotto pick.

We aren’t tanking now, we just suck. Playing IQ and RJ would get a few more wins but our standing would be maybe 1 spot higher. The teams below us aren’t tanking either. They’re either rebuilding (eg Spurs, Portland) or are horribly managed (eg Charlotte, Pistons, Wizards).

[WuTang_OG]

Keep the wins rolling.

[Scase]

OK, so we were playing bad before we traded OG (37.5% win percentage) and Siakam (39% winning percentage or 10 games below .500) and didn't play very well during the 16 games before Scottie was injured (31% winning percentage), but that's not most/all of the season?

Are you suggesting our tank wasn't intentional or bad enough (i.e. Detroit, Washington, San Antonio, Charlotte with less than 25% winning percentages) to be considered one before we pivoted into an unexpected tank with 26 games left in the season?




Should it only be a single down year before we return to the play-in/playoffs, trading for more established players who are more well-known commodities who can fill defined roles is more ideal than having more prospects who need to develop and grow (i.e. Gradey Dick, Ochai Agbaji) alongside Scottie as the #1 guy - especially when we could possibly have three (3) first round picks playing for the team next year that we're already going to have to work with on a daily basis for the next few years before they can reach their full potential.

Are you suggesting that while we had OG and Siakam on the team we were tanking?

I can fully understand if people want to consider trading those 2 away as when the tank began, I don't agree but I can see the rationale. But there is no way anyone can reliably argue we've been tanking the whole season. So at best we started "tanking" 41 games into the season once Siakam was gone. I would hardly call that the majority of the season.

And my argument is that we didn't go into full tank until the injuries, which again was with like 25 games remaining. I'm by no means suggesting my definition of tanking is the be all end all, but there has got to be at least a base line, and 41 games would have to be the absolute earliest anyone could realistically call this a tank.

Prior to the injuries we were running a full starting 5, and giving limited to no minutes to the rookies/bad players we have. Sacrificing winning to focus on development is a pretty key part of actual tanking.

Prior vs Post Scottie injury :

Ochai 14.2mpg vs 24.5mpg
Nwora 11.7mpg vs 16mpg
Gradey 15.3mpg vs 28.8mpg
McDaniels 8.8mpg vs 13mpg
Jontay 13mpg vs 15.8mpg

Sure looks a lot more like we are sacrificing wins for development there. I get it, more injuries = more minutes, but lets not pretend that there wasn't a very obvious shift since the injuries occurred.

Everyone agrees that we are tanking. Even you. Except that you are creating this bizarre “definition” that requires a team to play this way for a whole season, or at least 41 games, for it to qualify as a real tank. Which means Portland and Washington weren’t really tanking last year, though they are now. Of course, you’re welcome to use this “definition” for your own purposes. Just don’t expect anyone else to do the same.

I have repeatedly stated that we ARE tanking, this isn't a difficult concept. I've written it in plain English.

we didn't go into full tank until the injuries

This is a retool that pivoted into an unexpected tank with 26 games left in the season out of sheer necessity.

We're overtly tanking now, since the Barnes/Jak injuries.

If you can't gather it from that, I don't know what to tell you man.

Maybe I can make it clearer I guess.

HEY ISLANDBOY53, WE ARE CURRENTLY TANKING.

That good enough? Or should I hire Alvin Williams to do a cameo?

[Vampirate]

Atlanta, Bulls and the Nets can fight over the last 2 playin spots, we are officially eliminated.

Was and Brooklyn are the only teams that we have a chance to beat however we've lost to both during this hilarious losing streak.

We are probably the worst team in the league with what the lineups we are putting out.

[The Duke]

This team was doomed to fail, it lacked talent and was always a non playoff/play-in team (the original full squad). Masai didn’t see it that way. He Let them play, finally realized it was not going to end well in the playoffs, and will lose assets for nothing.

Traded OG
(Still just sucked, not tanking)

Traded Siakam
(Sucked more, potential tanking realization set in)

3-win pizza party to derail the plan?
(Not so fast, Insert real tanking intent moving forward)

Barnes / Jak injury
(Glory, let the tanking all hang out)