Official Immanuel Quickley Thread

[johanliebert]

The issue with Quick is how him and Scottie pair together.

When Scottie was on the floor with him it seemed like a bit of confusion out there.

I’m wondering if they can co exist.

This is what i’m waiting to see. Once Scottie went down it was clear IQ would start scoring again. That OT loss to the pels a few months back showed me Barnes had an issue with IQ pounding the rock. After that game the staff had barnes run point until the injury.

[HumbleRen]

They should have good chemistry going forward.

The issue is mainly Scottie’s fault as to why they don’t have much synergy. Scottie is not a good screener, he needs to work on it to fully unlock him and IQ’s chemistry.

Scottie makes quick decisons with the ball and knows where to go. IQ is a ball stopper thats why they have no synergy.

Not really, Scottie is just a bad screener lol.

If Scottie wants to be the hub of an offence, he needs to be average at the very least at setting strong screens otherwise he’s never going to fully optimize his guards.

[brownbobcat]

They should have good chemistry going forward.

The issue is mainly Scottie’s fault as to why they don’t have much synergy. Scottie is not a good screener, he needs to work on it to fully unlock him and IQ’s chemistry.

Scottie makes quick decisons with the ball and knows where to go. IQ is a ball stopper thats why they have no synergy.

Not really, Scottie is just a bad screener lol.

If Scottie wants to be the hub of an offence, he needs to be average at the very least at setting strong screens otherwise he’s never going to fully optimize his guards.

There's a lot more to being a playmaker than just making quick reads.

Draymond is amazing at quick reads, but he can rarely create an advantage for others - his gift is exploiting them. The team has got to figure out how to maximize Scottie's vision without him necessarily being the ball-handler. It would be interesting to try out some of GSW's sets, but that doesn't work without great screens.

[Scase]

Scottie makes quick decisons with the ball and knows where to go. IQ is a ball stopper thats why they have no synergy.

Not really, Scottie is just a bad screener lol.

If Scottie wants to be the hub of an offence, he needs to be average at the very least at setting strong screens otherwise he’s never going to fully optimize his guards.

There's a lot more to being a playmaker than just making quick reads.

Draymond is amazing at quick reads, but he can rarely create an advantage for others - his gift is exploiting them. The team has got to figure out how to maximize Scottie's vision without him necessarily being the ball-handler. It would be interesting to try out some of GSW's sets, but that doesn't work without great screens.

It's not just ball handling, Scottie knows how to direct an offence. He doesn't just make exploitative passes, he directs his teammates where to go and when to go there, and then he makes the exploitative pass. I love IQ and am high on him, but he does not possess the vision that Scottie does, I wouldn't go so far as to call him a ball stopper, but the offence is definitely a step or two slower with him at the helm.

He is good at breaking down the D, but he is not an offensive maestro. His ideal role is secondary ball handler and off ball scoring threat. If utilized effectively, he could arguably be the top scorer on the team.

[ash_k]

after Darko, IQ is the biggest beneficiary of this season..Had we gone into the playoffs, it could have cost him some zeros on his contract. Anybody that watched the playoffs, last season, knows what I am talking about.

[HumbleRen]

Not really, Scottie is just a bad screener lol.

If Scottie wants to be the hub of an offence, he needs to be average at the very least at setting strong screens otherwise he’s never going to fully optimize his guards.

There's a lot more to being a playmaker than just making quick reads.

Draymond is amazing at quick reads, but he can rarely create an advantage for others - his gift is exploiting them. The team has got to figure out how to maximize Scottie's vision without him necessarily being the ball-handler. It would be interesting to try out some of GSW's sets, but that doesn't work without great screens.

It's not just ball handling, Scottie knows how to direct an offence. He doesn't just make exploitative passes, he directs his teammates where to go and when to go there, and then he makes the exploitative pass. I love IQ and am high on him, but he does not possess the vision that Scottie does, I wouldn't go so far as to call him a ball stopper, but the offence is definitely a step or two slower with him at the helm.

He is good at breaking down the D, but he is not an offensive maestro. His ideal role is secondary ball handler and off ball scoring threat. If utilized effectively, he could arguably be the top scorer on the team.

Scottie doesn’t have break down ability or is able to drive to the rim 10-15 times a game as a lead playmaker, that’s not too big of an issue if you’re a great screener but he currently isn’t.

There’s just no really getting around it, to maximize Scottie as a player, he just simply needs to get better at it. I think he can, just needs to be emphasized by the coaching staff around him.



IQ is one of the best off ball players on the earth, they can make it work, there’s no excuse for it not to work.

[brownbobcat]

It's not just ball handling, Scottie knows how to direct an offence. He doesn't just make exploitative passes, he directs his teammates where to go and when to go there, and then he makes the exploitative pass.

I love IQ and am high on him, but he does not possess the vision that Scottie does, I wouldn't go so far as to call him a ball stopper, but the offence is definitely a step or two slower with him at the helm.

He is good at breaking down the D, but he is not an offensive maestro. His ideal role is secondary ball handler and off ball scoring threat. If utilized effectively, he could arguably be the top scorer on the team.

There is no point in directing your teammates if you can't create an advantage (either for you or them). That's why fully maximizing a guard like IQ is going to be very important. If you can create an advantage for him in the first place, that starts the whole process going to get the ball back and then really exploit the chaos. Scottie in the short roll with momentum would be great because he can make the reads and (unlike Draymond) actually continue diving all the way or bully someone in the paint.

Mix that in with some DHOs & reverse PnR where Scottie can also start making reads like a play-action QB and they could really have something.

[NinjaBro]

He's gonna average over 20ppg for the rest of the season.

Mike Breen: BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANG

IQ is gonna be special man. Don't stop believing in the kid, otherwise you're gonna look foolish.

Since this post:


17 games

22ppg
8apg
6rpg
1.2spg

45% from the field
38% from deep (8 attempts per game)
85% from the charity stripe


FOLKS, WE GOT ANOTHER ONE. ALL-STAR SZN LOADING.

You were also happy about the McDaniels signing, BAAAAAAAANNNGGG!

We need to trade Siakam for AJ Griffen before it's too late! - PhilBlackson

[Scase]

There's a lot more to being a playmaker than just making quick reads.

Draymond is amazing at quick reads, but he can rarely create an advantage for others - his gift is exploiting them. The team has got to figure out how to maximize Scottie's vision without him necessarily being the ball-handler. It would be interesting to try out some of GSW's sets, but that doesn't work without great screens.

It's not just ball handling, Scottie knows how to direct an offence. He doesn't just make exploitative passes, he directs his teammates where to go and when to go there, and then he makes the exploitative pass. I love IQ and am high on him, but he does not possess the vision that Scottie does, I wouldn't go so far as to call him a ball stopper, but the offence is definitely a step or two slower with him at the helm.

He is good at breaking down the D, but he is not an offensive maestro. His ideal role is secondary ball handler and off ball scoring threat. If utilized effectively, he could arguably be the top scorer on the team.

Scottie doesn’t have break down ability or is able to drive to the rim 10-15 times a game as a lead playmaker, that’s not too big of an issue if you’re a great screener but he currently isn’t.

There’s just no really getting around it, to maximize Scottie as a player, he just simply needs to get better at it. I think he can, just needs to be emphasized by the coaching staff around him.



IQ is one of the best off ball players on the earth, they can make it work, there’s no excuse for it not to work.

Teaching Scottie how to screen is probably one of the easiest things they can teach him, I'm not concerned about that.

It's not just ball handling, Scottie knows how to direct an offence. He doesn't just make exploitative passes, he directs his teammates where to go and when to go there, and then he makes the exploitative pass.

I love IQ and am high on him, but he does not possess the vision that Scottie does, I wouldn't go so far as to call him a ball stopper, but the offence is definitely a step or two slower with him at the helm.

He is good at breaking down the D, but he is not an offensive maestro. His ideal role is secondary ball handler and off ball scoring threat. If utilized effectively, he could arguably be the top scorer on the team.

There is no point in directing your teammates if you can't create an advantage (either for you or them). That's why fully maximizing a guard like IQ is going to be very important. If you can create an advantage for him in the first place, that starts the whole process going to get the ball back and then really exploit the chaos. Scottie in the short roll with momentum would be great because he can make the reads and (unlike Draymond) actually continue diving all the way or bully someone in the paint.

Mix that in with some DHOs & reverse PnR where Scottie can also start making reads like a play-action QB and they could really have something.

Yet somehow he manages to do it every single game, multiple times. The offence always looks better with Scottie at the helm, but there is definitely room for improvement all around. As Ren said, they are very talented players, no way we can't make it work.

[brownbobcat]

Yet somehow he manages to do it every single game, multiple times. The offence always looks better with Scottie at the helm, but there is definitely room for improvement all around. As Ren said, they are very talented players, no way we can't make it work.

Obviously I'm not saying Scottie can't do it at all, but there are levels to this. Jokic is unguardable because he's an unstoppable scorer within 15 feet, decent from 3 and dimes it from ever conceivable angle all over the court. Scottie can be shut down 1v1 right now and he still has to turn his back to protect the ball, which is why it's important for him to create advantages for others.

[Scase]

Yet somehow he manages to do it every single game, multiple times. The offence always looks better with Scottie at the helm, but there is definitely room for improvement all around. As Ren said, they are very talented players, no way we can't make it work.

Obviously I'm not saying Scottie can't do it at all, but there are levels to this. Jokic is unguardable because he's an unstoppable scorer within 15 feet, decent from 3 and dimes it from ever conceivable angle all over the court. Scottie can be shut down 1v1 right now and he still has to turn his back to protect the ball, which is why it's important for him to create advantages for others.

Well yeah, you put up literally any player in the NBA against Jokic's skill set/level they look worse. Scottie came back from an off season with a legit 3 pointer, I'm not exactly expecting him to come back next season with the exact same game. Scottie needs to learn how to set a proper screen for sure, but using him primarily as a screener and letting IQ run the offence is a colossal waste of talent.

[HumbleRen]

Yet somehow he manages to do it every single game, multiple times. The offence always looks better with Scottie at the helm, but there is definitely room for improvement all around. As Ren said, they are very talented players, no way we can't make it work.

Obviously I'm not saying Scottie can't do it at all, but there are levels to this. Jokic is unguardable because he's an unstoppable scorer within 15 feet, decent from 3 and dimes it from ever conceivable angle all over the court. Scottie can be shut down 1v1 right now and he still has to turn his back to protect the ball, which is why it's important for him to create advantages for others.

Well yeah, you put up literally any player in the NBA against Jokic's skill set/level they look worse. Scottie came back from an off season with a legit 3 pointer, I'm not exactly expecting him to come back next season with the exact same game. Scottie needs to learn how to set a proper screen for sure, but using him primarily as a screener and letting IQ run the offence is a colossal waste of talent.

So are what Sabonis and Jokic doing is a waste of time ? I disagree with this line of thinking, asking Scottie to be a better screener doesn't mean deemphasizing Scottie's role on offence, it means enhancing it. Giving him more options to manipulate the opposing team's defense. It goes both ways too, inverted screens from IQ giving Scottie an open lane to the rim. We're not asking him to be Poeltl lol.

[Scase]

Obviously I'm not saying Scottie can't do it at all, but there are levels to this. Jokic is unguardable because he's an unstoppable scorer within 15 feet, decent from 3 and dimes it from ever conceivable angle all over the court. Scottie can be shut down 1v1 right now and he still has to turn his back to protect the ball, which is why it's important for him to create advantages for others.

Well yeah, you put up literally any player in the NBA against Jokic's skill set/level they look worse. Scottie came back from an off season with a legit 3 pointer, I'm not exactly expecting him to come back next season with the exact same game. Scottie needs to learn how to set a proper screen for sure, but using him primarily as a screener and letting IQ run the offence is a colossal waste of talent.

So are what Sabonis and Jokic doing is a waste of time ? I disagree with this line of thinking, asking Scottie to be a better screener doesn't mean deemphasizing Scottie's role on offence, it means enhancing it. Giving him more options to manipulate the opposing team's defense. It goes both ways too, inverted screens from IQ giving Scottie an open lane to the rim. We're not asking him to be Poeltl lol.

Primarily =/= more. As I said before, he needs to become a better screener, but making it sound like his primary role is to just create advantages for others is silly.

[brownbobcat]

Yet somehow he manages to do it every single game, multiple times. The offence always looks better with Scottie at the helm, but there is definitely room for improvement all around. As Ren said, they are very talented players, no way we can't make it work.

Obviously I'm not saying Scottie can't do it at all, but there are levels to this. Jokic is unguardable because he's an unstoppable scorer within 15 feet, decent from 3 and dimes it from ever conceivable angle all over the court. Scottie can be shut down 1v1 right now and he still has to turn his back to protect the ball, which is why it's important for him to create advantages for others.

Well yeah, you put up literally any player in the NBA against Jokic's skill set/level they look worse. Scottie came back from an off season with a legit 3 pointer, I'm not exactly expecting him to come back next season with the exact same game. Scottie needs to learn how to set a proper screen for sure, but using him primarily as a screener and letting IQ run the offence is a colossal waste of talent.

I never said "primarily", but it makes too much sense as a big part of his arsenal. I don't understand this weird pride about "running the offence". If he creates tons of space for IQ to hit 3s, is that not creating offence? Is that not playmaking? It's certainly a lot easier than developing an iso game from scratch. Doing this properly opens up so many options for a 2-man game, IQ can set screens for Scottie and vice versa. It lets Barnes get into motion and build momentum facing the basket without having to beat his man off the dribble. Why are we acting like setting screens is grunt work when Karl Malone scored 36,000 points doing it?

The path is going to be exceptionally difficult for Barnes to become a young-LeBron-like playmaker who drew doubles as walking mismatch - that's just not his game. Yes, I expect he will progress and get better at it, but that should be the final stage and not the next one.

[HumbleRen]

Well yeah, you put up literally any player in the NBA against Jokic's skill set/level they look worse. Scottie came back from an off season with a legit 3 pointer, I'm not exactly expecting him to come back next season with the exact same game. Scottie needs to learn how to set a proper screen for sure, but using him primarily as a screener and letting IQ run the offence is a colossal waste of talent.

So are what Sabonis and Jokic doing is a waste of time ? I disagree with this line of thinking, asking Scottie to be a better screener doesn't mean deemphasizing Scottie's role on offence, it means enhancing it. Giving him more options to manipulate the opposing team's defense. It goes both ways too, inverted screens from IQ giving Scottie an open lane to the rim. We're not asking him to be Poeltl lol.

Primarily =/= more. As I said before, he needs to become a better screener, but making it sound like his primary role is to just create advantages for others is silly.

I mean it kinda is ? It’s his only elite trait outside of being versatile as hell.

If he becomes a better scorer, than yeah, be a more traditional jumbo creator but he currently isn’t. He’s a very unique player who doesn’t really have a go to scoring move going to his 4th year.

[Scase]

Obviously I'm not saying Scottie can't do it at all, but there are levels to this. Jokic is unguardable because he's an unstoppable scorer within 15 feet, decent from 3 and dimes it from ever conceivable angle all over the court. Scottie can be shut down 1v1 right now and he still has to turn his back to protect the ball, which is why it's important for him to create advantages for others.

Well yeah, you put up literally any player in the NBA against Jokic's skill set/level they look worse. Scottie came back from an off season with a legit 3 pointer, I'm not exactly expecting him to come back next season with the exact same game. Scottie needs to learn how to set a proper screen for sure, but using him primarily as a screener and letting IQ run the offence is a colossal waste of talent.

I never said "primarily", but it makes too much sense as a big part of his arsenal. I don't understand this weird pride about "running the offence". If he creates tons of space for IQ to hit 3s, is that not creating offence? Is that not playmaking? It's certainly a lot easier than developing an iso game from scratch. Doing this properly opens up so many options for a 2-man game, IQ can set screens for Scottie and vice versa. It lets Barnes get into motion and build momentum facing the basket without having to beat his man off the dribble. Why are we acting like setting screens is grunt work when Karl Malone scored 36,000 points doing it?

The path is going to be exceptionally difficult for Barnes to become a young-LeBron-like playmaker who drew doubles as walking mismatch - that's just not his game. Yes, I expect he will progress and get better at it, but that should be the final stage and not the next one.

What pride? I'm not Scottie, there's no ego or pride here. The offence just flows better with him controlling it. I'm not disparaging it, and I think using Malone is a terrible argument. It worked for malone due to the offence the league centred around, PnR is not something an entire players career can revolve around, and still be a top performer.

As I have said multiple times now, he absolutely should be better at it, and should be a part of his game. I just don't think the offence would run as smoothly with him being a more passive screener, rather than an active passer.

[brownbobcat]

What pride? I'm not Scottie, there's no ego or pride here. The offence just flows better with him controlling it. I'm not disparaging it, and I think using Malone is a terrible argument.

Let's talk specifics and not semantics - what does "controlling" an offense mean? PnR ballhandler, isos, what? I would love Scottie to get better at all those things too, but it's simply not the best way to max out his current talents. He excels on processing info when the pace is frenetic, he is not a guy that creates mismatches on his own at an elite level right now. The stats show that and so does the eye test. Being a screener is not mutually exclusive with getting the ball back. Somebody tell me what the difference is between freeing a shooter with a "passive" screen vs making a good "active" pass to that shooter, I'd love to hear it.

It worked for malone due to the offence the league centred around, PnR is not something an entire players career can revolve around, and still be a top performer.

That doesn't make sense, the league was not centred around the PnR back then. The point is conceptual and not meant as strict comparison - obviously nobody spams that style of mid post screen action anymore. But you can be an amazing player that utilizes screens either as the setter or user. Jokic, old Lebron, Steph all do it.

[Scase]

What pride? I'm not Scottie, there's no ego or pride here. The offence just flows better with him controlling it. I'm not disparaging it, and I think using Malone is a terrible argument.

Let's talk specifics and not semantics - what does "controlling" an offense mean? PnR ballhandler, isos, what? I would love Scottie to get better at all those things too, but it's simply not the best way to max out his current talents. He excels on processing info when the pace is frenetic, he is not a guy that creates mismatches on his own at an elite level right now. The stats show that and so does the eye test. Being a screener is not mutually exclusive with getting the ball back. Somebody tell me what the difference is between freeing a shooter with a "passive" screen vs making a good "active" pass to that shooter, I'd love to hear it.

It worked for malone due to the offence the league centred around, PnR is not something an entire players career can revolve around, and still be a top performer.

That doesn't make sense, the league was not centred around the PnR back then. The point is conceptual and not meant as strict comparison - obviously nobody spams that style of mid post screen action anymore. But you can be an amazing player that utilizes screens either as the setter or user. Jokic, old Lebron, Steph all do it.

Maybe facilitating the offence is a better term to use. Scottie works best as an offensive hub, he sees the court better than anyone on our team, and better than most in the league, couple that with being 6'9 and he literally sees it better than most. He can make passes shorter players can't, and as you said processes info faster. Last year was a huge leap in growth for him, and there is no reason to assume more of that isn't on the way.

As I've mentioned before, the offence flows more smoothly, and results in easier shots for his teammates. Scottie is in the 97th percentile in AST% at his position, that is the highest percentile on the team. That alone is an elite mismatch, despite the fact that he isn't an ISO threat.

As for the "league centred around it" was not specific to the PnR, but rather the league not being centred around the 3 ball as it is today. The league back then was still heavily dominated by bigs scoring close to the basket, it is not anymore. You can't run a successful championship calibre offence, with the PnR being the primary/majority offensive set, like you could in Malones era.

[brownbobcat]

Maybe facilitating the offence is a better term to use. Scottie works best as an offensive hub, he sees the court better than anyone on our team, and better than most in the league, couple that with being 6'9 and he literally sees it better than most. He can make passes shorter players can't, and as you said processes info faster. Last year was a huge leap in growth for him, and there is no reason to assume more of that isn't on the way.

As I've mentioned before, the offence flows more smoothly, and results in easier shots for his teammates. Scottie is in the 97th percentile in AST% at his position, that is the highest percentile on the team. That alone is an elite mismatch, despite the fact that he isn't an ISO threat.

As for the "league centred around it" was not specific to the PnR, but rather the league not being centred around the 3 ball as it is today. The league back then was still heavily dominated by bigs scoring close to the basket, it is not anymore. You can't run a successful championship calibre offence, with the PnR being the primary/majority offensive set, like you could in Malones era.

We're not disagreeing on much, except that I think Scottie as screener is actually the key to unlocking him as a hub. I strongly believe it's just technical elements (like footwork and handle) that he needs to master.

Take something simple like Barnes executing the DHO like a play action QB, with the option to hand off or run it himself. It becomes unstoppable if he can screen as well as Sabonis. Mastering that opens up the door for Barnes to be the ball-handler for more PnRs - either to attack slower bigs or run inverted actions with IQ and bully-ball guards. A huge problem with Barnes as the PnR ballhandler now is that Toronto doesn't have any pick & pop threats, so it's going to be easier for Ds to drop cover and just live with the Barnes jumper.

That's why they need to utilize someone like IQ who can actually hurt them from outside. Then you can switch it up and unleash Barnes as the short roller a la Draymond, except that Barnes would actually be a massive threat to score once he's given momentum and space.

Barnes has the vision to see the pass, but actually generating the opportunity for the pass is the next level of playmaking.

[Scase]

Maybe facilitating the offence is a better term to use. Scottie works best as an offensive hub, he sees the court better than anyone on our team, and better than most in the league, couple that with being 6'9 and he literally sees it better than most. He can make passes shorter players can't, and as you said processes info faster. Last year was a huge leap in growth for him, and there is no reason to assume more of that isn't on the way.

As I've mentioned before, the offence flows more smoothly, and results in easier shots for his teammates. Scottie is in the 97th percentile in AST% at his position, that is the highest percentile on the team. That alone is an elite mismatch, despite the fact that he isn't an ISO threat.

As for the "league centred around it" was not specific to the PnR, but rather the league not being centred around the 3 ball as it is today. The league back then was still heavily dominated by bigs scoring close to the basket, it is not anymore. You can't run a successful championship calibre offence, with the PnR being the primary/majority offensive set, like you could in Malones era.

We're not disagreeing on much, except that I think Scottie as screener is actually the key to unlocking him as a hub. I strongly believe it's just technical elements (like footwork and handle) that he needs to master.

Take something simple like Barnes executing the DHO like a play action QB, with the option to hand off or run it himself. It becomes unstoppable he can screen as well as Sabonis. Mastering that opens up the door for Barnes to be the ball-handler for more PnRs - either to attack slower bigs or run inverted actions with IQ and bully-ball guards. A huge problem with Barnes as the PnR ballhandler now is that Toronto doesn't have any pick & pop threats, so it's going to be easier for Ds to drop cover and just live with the Barnes jumper.

That's why they need to utilize someone like IQ who can actually hurt them from outside. Then you can switch it up and unleash Barnes as the short roller a la Draymond, except that Barnes would actually be a massive threat to score once he's given momentum and space.

Barnes has the vision to see the pass, but actually generating the opportunity for the pass is the next level of playmaking.

I would love to have Scottie work on his elbow jumper/mid range shot this summer along side him working on screening, I think it would open up a lot of the floor for everyone else.

I appreciate the extra details, this makes a lot more sense, I think I may have misunderstood what you were suggesting earlier, my apologies. Sounds like we're in complete agreement on this one!