Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0

[Duffman100]

Continued from viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1831454&start=1960

[YogurtProducer]

Crazy that Lowry, Demar, Siakam, OG, Valanciunas, are all on playoff teams. If we would have held steady that was pretty much our SL in 2018.

Our 2017-18 team fully developed would be fun to watch today.

Lowry/FVV
Demar/Delon
OG/Norm
Siakam
Valanciunas/Poeltl

Just an unprecedented run of scouting and drafting.

Obviously a salary cap would never let it happen.. but if that team stuck together for the past 6 years how good would we be? You would think the chemistry between them would be unmatched.

[Walid]

Crazy that Lowry, Demar, Siakam, OG, Valanciunas, are all on playoff teams. If we would have held steady that was pretty much our SL in 2018.

Our 2017-18 team fully developed would be fun to watch today.

Lowry/FVV
Demar/Delon
OG/Norm
Siakam
Valanciunas/Poeltl

Just an unprecedented run of scouting and drafting.

Obviously a salary cap would never let it happen.. but if that team stuck together for the past 6 years how good would we be? You would think the chemistry between them would be unmatched.

When you present it like that, Bryan Colangelo made some quality moves which set us up for the Ujiri era.

We got Kyle Lowry for Gary Forbes and a first (which ended up being Steven Adams). I'd add Terrence Ross and Ed Davis to your rotation as well, both ended up being fair picks where they were selected.

[YogurtProducer]

Crazy that Lowry, Demar, Siakam, OG, Valanciunas, are all on playoff teams. If we would have held steady that was pretty much our SL in 2018.

Our 2017-18 team fully developed would be fun to watch today.

Lowry/FVV
Demar/Delon
OG/Norm
Siakam
Valanciunas/Poeltl

Just an unprecedented run of scouting and drafting.

Obviously a salary cap would never let it happen.. but if that team stuck together for the past 6 years how good would we be? You would think the chemistry between them would be unmatched.

When you present it like that, Bryan Colangelo made some quality moves which set us up for the Ujiri era.

We got Kyle Lowry for Gary Forbes and a first (which ended up being Steven Adams). I'd add Terrence Ross and Ed Davis to your rotation as well, both ended up being fair picks where they were selected.

Well T-Ross was moved for Ibaka so he was not there that year, and Ed Davis was moved for Gay, so he DEFINITELY was not here at all.

Colangelo's team was Lowry/Demar/Gay/Bargs/Val + Ross/Amir.. lets not try and skew reality to act like Colangelo was anything but a horrible GM as he went off and further proven in Philly. Literally had the best asset base in possibly NBA history and **** it within 12 months.

[ruckus]

Maybe it's too early but I think we can objectively look back at Pascal's career as a Rsptor and ask "why was his value around the league so low?"

It sounds like Masai was getting lowballed on Siakam offers since the last trade deadline.

Pascal is an allstar caliber player and while I'm OK with what we got for him, the return does feel underwhelming.

[lebron stopper]

Crazy that Lowry, Demar, Siakam, OG, Valanciunas, are all on playoff teams. If we would have held steady that was pretty much our SL in 2018.

Our 2017-18 team fully developed would be fun to watch today.

Lowry/FVV
Demar/Delon
OG/Norm
Siakam
Valanciunas/Poeltl

Just an unprecedented run of scouting and drafting.

Obviously a salary cap would never let it happen.. but if that team stuck together for the past 6 years how good would we be? You would think the chemistry between them would be unmatched.

Probably, DeMar would still take away shots from OG/Pascal/Fred/Norm/Delon while Lowry would be forced into a much lesser role again, and in particular he would share a lot of the same spots as Pascal so he would have a tough time developing. Nurse would get fed up with DeMar's horrific defense and refusal to shoot threes and that eventually helps fuel friction in the locker room.

It's hard to speculate and even more difficult to really know for sure, but I guess that team would be trending downward, continue as playoff fodder but for the emerging Celtics/Sixers/Bucks/maybe even Pacers instead of the recently departed LeBron James, and eventually conclude with a fire sale at some point to make way for the younger guys. The Lowry and DeRozan duo becomes just another tortured chapter of Raptors history, fun but eventually forgotten. DeRozan sticks around too long and "becomes a villain" after repeated playoff failures take their toll on a weary fanbase. Lowry is not considered the greatest Raptor because there is no title run.

There's a reason why the Kawhi trade was the greatest move Masai ever made. It's not just that he got a top 4 player in the league for basically nothing (yes, DeMar + Jakob + FRP is basically nothing compared to Kawhi), it's also that the trade also doubled as a stealth salary dump. If things didn't work out, at least the team could move on from its previous era sooner and focus on what was up and coming. Genius trade on so many levels and everyone still in the organization benefited tremendously from it.

[YogurtProducer]

Crazy that Lowry, Demar, Siakam, OG, Valanciunas, are all on playoff teams. If we would have held steady that was pretty much our SL in 2018.

Our 2017-18 team fully developed would be fun to watch today.

Lowry/FVV
Demar/Delon
OG/Norm
Siakam
Valanciunas/Poeltl

Just an unprecedented run of scouting and drafting.

Obviously a salary cap would never let it happen.. but if that team stuck together for the past 6 years how good would we be? You would think the chemistry between them would be unmatched.

Probably, DeMar would still take away shots from OG/Pascal/Fred/Norm/Delon while Lowry would be forced into a much lesser role again, and in particular he would share a lot of the same spots as Pascal so he would have a tough time developing. Nurse would get fed up with DeMar's horrific defense and refusal to shoot threes and that eventually helps fuel friction in the locker room.

It's hard to speculate and even more difficult to really know for sure, but I guess that team would be trending downward, continue as playoff fodder but for the emerging Celtics/Sixers/Bucks/maybe even Pacers instead of the recently departed LeBron James, and eventually conclude with a fire sale at some point to make way for the younger guys. The Lowry and DeRozan duo becomes just another tortured chapter of Raptors history, fun but eventually forgotten. DeRozan sticks around too long and "becomes a villain" after repeated playoff failures take their toll on a weary fanbase. Lowry is not considered the greatest Raptor because there is no title run.

There's a reason why the Kawhi trade was the greatest move Masai ever made. It's not just that he got a top 4 player in the league for basically nothing (yes, DeMar + Jakob + FRP is basically nothing compared to Kawhi), it's also that the trade also doubled as a stealth salary dump. If things didn't work out, at least the team could move on from its previous era sooner and focus on what was up and coming. Genius trade on so many levels and everyone still in the organization benefited tremendously from it.

Oh 100% - I would make that trade 100/100 times

But it would have been cool if somehow once Kawhi left we could have gotten Delon Val and DD back and sacrifice Gasol

The longevity of Lowry and Demar is actually crazy. Who would have thought in 2017 they still would be starting 7 years later.

[Mr_NC]

This happened with OG too but soon as Pascal got traded, all US media just started singing his accolades and how great he is and his skill set etc, which is to be expected but it’s still funny and sad to see.

[MadDesperado]

Maybe it's too early but I think we can objectively look back at Pascal's career as a Rsptor and ask "why was his value around the league so low?"

It sounds like Masai was getting lowballed on Siakam offers since the last trade deadline.

Pascal is an allstar caliber player and while I'm OK with what we got for him, the return does feel underwhelming.

I think it's fair to question what his ceiling is as a main guy on the team. The championship team was very nuanced as he had Kawhi, Lowry and Gasol doing all of the grunt work so to speak, and all he had to do was be in the right spot to finish the play. So the #2 on a championship team narrative is suspect imo.

In the years that followed he looked good on paper, but you could make an argument for empty calorie stats given that NN's approach was to just out hustle the opponent and win via defensive effort. The offense just had to tread water and you could do that force feeding Siakam and FVV, despite it looking ugly.

So with all of those things combined I can understand getting lowballed by other teams, especially considering the expiring contract. His fit with Indiana is perfect tho and he can reach another level in his game which may make teams like Atlanta and Dallas really regret not putting together a better offer.

[TimeForChange]

Read on Twitter

[pingpongrac]

Definitely will be tuning into the Pacers/Blazers game later.

[Michael Jordan]

What a strange game in Indiana tonight; Siakam and Hali were +16/17 while Mathurin and McConell were (-21)/(-19)

Meanwhile Jeremy Grant and Brogdon went **** for 67 combined points.

Raps should target Grant.

[ImaBeatDatAzz]

What a strange game in Indiana tonight; Siakam and Hali were +16/17 while Mathurin and McConell were (-21)/(-19)

Meanwhile Jeremy Grant and Brogdon went **** for 67 combined points.

Raps should target Grant.

I always wanted grant, he is ur long term Siakam replacement. The difference is he can actually shoot the 3 very efficiently

[YogurtProducer]

What a strange game in Indiana tonight; Siakam and Hali were +16/17 while Mathurin and McConell were (-21)/(-19)

Meanwhile Jeremy Grant and Brogdon went **** for 67 combined points.

Raps should target Grant.

I always wanted grant, he is ur long term Siakam replacement. The difference is he can actually shoot the 3 very efficiently

I also like grant, but salary wise it wouldn’t work. 27-34M on his deal over 4 years.

With RJ making 25, IQ gonna make 20-25, Scottie max coming, etc. I don’t know if we can take on another deal like that, even though the fit is pretty fantastic.

In theory - what would we need to give for grant? Likely similar to what we just got for Siakam?

[ImaBeatDatAzz]

What a strange game in Indiana tonight; Siakam and Hali were +16/17 while Mathurin and McConell were (-21)/(-19)

Meanwhile Jeremy Grant and Brogdon went **** for 67 combined points.

Raps should target Grant.

I always wanted grant, he is ur long term Siakam replacement. The difference is he can actually shoot the 3 very efficiently

I also like grant, but salary wise it wouldn’t work. 27-34M on his deal over 4 years.

With RJ making 25, IQ gonna make 20-25, Scottie max coming, etc. I don’t know if we can take on another deal like that, even though the fit is pretty fantastic.

In theory - what would we need to give for grant? Likely similar to what we just got for Siakam?

uhh, i would give portland: 1 frp, our detroit second, bruce brown and boucher

[YogurtProducer]

I always wanted grant, he is ur long term Siakam replacement. The difference is he can actually shoot the 3 very efficiently

I also like grant, but salary wise it wouldn’t work. 27-34M on his deal over 4 years.

With RJ making 25, IQ gonna make 20-25, Scottie max coming, etc. I don’t know if we can take on another deal like that, even though the fit is pretty fantastic.

In theory - what would we need to give for grant? Likely similar to what we just got for Siakam?

uhh, i would give portland, 1 frp, our detroit second, bruce brown and boucher

Just doesn't make a lot of sense. Grant is not enough of an improvement over brown to give up 1 first, the 31st pick, and Boucher, and pay him 15M more than you can re-sign Brown for when he is a FA.

I would rather keep the picks, trade Boucher for literally anything, and possibly get more picks/youth out of Brown. I could see a world where Brown/Boucher could bring back a 1st and a couple 2nds.

[ImaBeatDatAzz]

I also like grant, but salary wise it wouldn’t work. 27-34M on his deal over 4 years.

With RJ making 25, IQ gonna make 20-25, Scottie max coming, etc. I don’t know if we can take on another deal like that, even though the fit is pretty fantastic.

In theory - what would we need to give for grant? Likely similar to what we just got for Siakam?

uhh, i would give portland, 1 frp, our detroit second, bruce brown and boucher

Just doesn't make a lot of sense. Grant is not enough of an improvement over brown to give up 1 first, the 31st pick, and Boucher, and pay him 15M more than you can re-sign Brown for when he is a FA.

I would rather keep the picks, trade Boucher for literally anything, and possibly get more picks/youth out of Brown. I could see a world where Brown/Boucher could bring back a 1st and a couple 2nds.

Oh I just checked and Grant is 29, never mind. He needs to be on a contender now, maybe Dallas gets him. If he was 26-27 I would go all in for him and he would be a great addition to the core.

[Mister Ze]

Thibs played OG 42-43 minutes 3 times in 4 days. Definitely not a big deal but it’ll start to add up if he doesn’t chill .

Brown for Grimes + Fournier + Future First is a sweet deal. Then you can unload Schroder/Trent at the deadline.

[tanuki1031]

Second game in a row Carlisle has Siakam matched against the other team's best player. Hard lessons being learned early.

And they're still not looking for him on offense. Nembhard, Nesmith, Hield, Turner completely ignoring whichever side Siakam's on. Way to make your prized acquisition feel welcomed!

[EastonEddy]

Not sure I understand the point of trading for Siakam if they are not going to make him a focal point of the offense. The Pacer guards seem super selfish.