Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0

[YogurtProducer]

Indiana has zero idea how to use Siakam. He’s been switched into Beal and not gottten the ball so many times

[mrdressup]

Indiana has zero idea how to use Siakam. He’s been switched into Beal and not gottten the ball so many times

Has he ever fit in the flow of a team offense? You kinda have to give him the ball and hope they send two players at him. He just doesn't move enough to be useful off ball. They' ll have to figure it out. He's an iso player.

[YogurtProducer]

Indiana has zero idea how to use Siakam. He’s been switched into Beal and not gottten the ball so many times

Has he ever fit in the flow of a team offense? You kinda have to give him the ball and hope they send two players at him. He just doesn't move enough to be useful off ball. They' ll have to figure it out. He's an iso player.

I mean yes? He was a perfect fit in 2019 and 2020, and even this year he played off players more than he ever has before (and his efficiency skyrocketed as a result).

Not much more Siakam can do when Beal is switched onto him than going to the post and hoping his teammates realize that’s a guaranteed bucket and giving him the ball.

[tanuki1031]

It has to be as frustrating for Siakam as it is watching him as a Raptors fan.

All things considered he has played well in his two games with the Pacers so far.

Offense
He's treated on the court like a 4th option and instead of isolating himself on the wing he's moving around to where he can receive a pass to help ball movement or a score - only the Pacers aren't even looking in his direction. He's fighting to get deep post position especially when he recognizes a mismatch (no entry passes again) and he's crashing the goal for O-boards.
You can tell when he's had enough and he'll do the GTJ thing of keeping the ball for an entire possession to get his shot off.

Defense
Even though he's been scored against repeatedly by the opposing team's best player he's been doing the right things on defense. Guarding with legit effort, hands up and pestering, bringing help. He's gotten beat many times, yes, but there are also times when his new Pacers teammates showed no effort or awareness.


If Siakam played like he is playing now on the Pacers he would still be a Toronto Raptor, we'd have won a bunch more games, and probably a reasonable extension could have been worked out. This Siakam with Barnes would have no doubt worked.

[James_Raptors]

OG Anunoby is a +190 in plus-minus over his first 11 games with the New York Knicks. That is the best mark since 1996-97, when plus-minus first started being tracked, by a player through their first 11 games with a team. Second-best is Pau Gasol, who was a +154.

And yes, the Knicks have the #1 defensive rating in the NBA since the trade.

[WuTang_OG]

almost former

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[EastonEddy]

It has to be as frustrating for Siakam as it is watching him as a Raptors fan.

All things considered he has played well in his two games with the Pacers so far.

Offense
He's treated on the court like a 4th option and instead of isolating himself on the wing he's moving around to where he can receive a pass to help ball movement or a score - only the Pacers aren't even looking in his direction. He's fighting to get deep post position especially when he recognizes a mismatch (no entry passes again) and he's crashing the goal for O-boards.
You can tell when he's had enough and he'll do the GTJ thing of keeping the ball for an entire possession to get his shot off.

Defense
Even though he's been scored against repeatedly by the opposing team's best player he's been doing the right things on defense. Guarding with legit effort, hands up and pestering, bringing help. He's gotten beat many times, yes, but there are also times when his new Pacers teammates showed no effort or awareness.


If Siakam played like he is playing now on the Pacers he would still be a Toronto Raptor, we'd have won a bunch more games, and probably a reasonable extension could have been worked out. This Siakam with Barnes would have no doubt worked.

What?

No offense but you have got everything backward.

The Pacers are completely looking off Siakam because they have selfish guards and run plays for Turner in the post. I didn't get a chance to watch the game today but the first two games I have no idea why he was brought there because anytime he had a mismatch or a transition opportunity he was completely ignored.

The Raptors easiest path to a successful season was to make Siakam the focal point. Early on in the season they tried to drastically reduce Pascal's role and it took a few games before everyone was wtf are the Raptors doing and he was reinstated in a more appropriate role. Its hard enough to get players in the NBA to sacrifice their stats in order to win but for some reason the fanbase here wants Pascal, in his prime, to sacrifice his stats, in a contract year, in order for us to be less competitive so Scottie can "learn." Like this is pro sports guys aren't here to learn if they are the best they will get those opportunities and if not you trade the better player and feature the youngster (like we did).

[sbsat]

Precious doing some very good things for the knicks

[tanuki1031]

It has to be as frustrating for Siakam as it is watching him as a Raptors fan.

All things considered he has played well in his two games with the Pacers so far.

Offense
He's treated on the court like a 4th option and instead of isolating himself on the wing he's moving around to where he can receive a pass to help ball movement or a score - only the Pacers aren't even looking in his direction. He's fighting to get deep post position especially when he recognizes a mismatch (no entry passes again) and he's crashing the goal for O-boards.
You can tell when he's had enough and he'll do the GTJ thing of keeping the ball for an entire possession to get his shot off.

Defense
Even though he's been scored against repeatedly by the opposing team's best player he's been doing the right things on defense. Guarding with legit effort, hands up and pestering, bringing help. He's gotten beat many times, yes, but there are also times when his new Pacers teammates showed no effort or awareness.


If Siakam played like he is playing now on the Pacers he would still be a Toronto Raptor, we'd have won a bunch more games, and probably a reasonable extension could have been worked out. This Siakam with Barnes would have no doubt worked.

What?

No offense but you have got everything backward.

The Pacers are completely looking off Siakam because they have selfish guards and run plays for Turner in the post. I didn't get a chance to watch the game today but the first two games I have no idea why he was brought there because anytime he had a mismatch or a transition opportunity he was completely ignored.

Huh? This is exactly what I said - dumb Pacers not giving Siakam the ball in the flow of the offense.

The Raptors easiest path to a successful season was to make Siakam the focal point. Early on in the season they tried to drastically reduce Pascal's role and it took a few games before everyone was wtf are the Raptors doing and he was reinstated in a more appropriate role. Its hard enough to get players in the NBA to sacrifice their stats in order to win but for some reason the fanbase here wants Pascal, in his prime, to sacrifice his stats, in a contract year, in order for us to be less competitive so Scottie can "learn." Like this is pro sports guys aren't here to learn if they are the best they will get those opportunities and if not you trade the better player and feature the youngster (like we did).

The way Siakam is willingly and successfully playing now on the Pacers is how you've described the team and fans urging Siakam to play and failing to do so. Somehow after the trade it got real easy for Siakam to buy into sacrificing touches and stats in what is still a contract year. Ironically, the team he was traded to has not embraced Siakam's addition nor his comparatively self-less play.

According to you:
Selfless Siakam on Raptors = failed Raptors experiment & guy in his prime shouldn't have had to sacrifice
Selfless SIakam on Pacers = failed trade, Pacers guys are selfish and not using (a selfless) Siakam properly

Is your next progression Selfish Siakam / focal point on the Pacers = Siakam getting stats & $$ = path to success for the Pacers
because Siakam focal point = easiest path to success for the Raptors?

No offense taken but you've done a shite job of explaining what I got backwards and made it annoying to try and grasp whatever point you were trying to make, especially when you repeat the same observations I had made.

Scottie, RJ, IQ, Dennis, Jontay, etc. would all be making the passes those selfish Pacers guards aren't making to Siakam had he played the way he is now while still with the Raptors, and everyone would have been arguably better off if that were the case.

[EastonEddy]

It has to be as frustrating for Siakam as it is watching him as a Raptors fan.

All things considered he has played well in his two games with the Pacers so far.

Offense
He's treated on the court like a 4th option and instead of isolating himself on the wing he's moving around to where he can receive a pass to help ball movement or a score - only the Pacers aren't even looking in his direction. He's fighting to get deep post position especially when he recognizes a mismatch (no entry passes again) and he's crashing the goal for O-boards.
You can tell when he's had enough and he'll do the GTJ thing of keeping the ball for an entire possession to get his shot off.

Defense
Even though he's been scored against repeatedly by the opposing team's best player he's been doing the right things on defense. Guarding with legit effort, hands up and pestering, bringing help. He's gotten beat many times, yes, but there are also times when his new Pacers teammates showed no effort or awareness.


If Siakam played like he is playing now on the Pacers he would still be a Toronto Raptor, we'd have won a bunch more games, and probably a reasonable extension could have been worked out. This Siakam with Barnes would have no doubt worked.

What?

No offense but you have got everything backward.

The Pacers are completely looking off Siakam because they have selfish guards and run plays for Turner in the post. I didn't get a chance to watch the game today but the first two games I have no idea why he was brought there because anytime he had a mismatch or a transition opportunity he was completely ignored.

Huh? This is exactly what I said - dumb Pacers not giving Siakam the ball in the flow of the offense.

I was agreeing with you.

The Raptors easiest path to a successful season was to make Siakam the focal point. Early on in the season they tried to drastically reduce Pascal's role and it took a few games before everyone was wtf are the Raptors doing and he was reinstated in a more appropriate role. Its hard enough to get players in the NBA to sacrifice their stats in order to win but for some reason the fanbase here wants Pascal, in his prime, to sacrifice his stats, in a contract year, in order for us to be less competitive so Scottie can "learn." Like this is pro sports guys aren't here to learn if they are the best they will get those opportunities and if not you trade the better player and feature the youngster (like we did).

The way Siakam is willingly and successfully playing now on the Pacers is how you've described the team and fans urging Siakam to play and failing to do so. Somehow after the trade it got real easy for Siakam to buy into sacrificing touches and stats in what is still a contract year. Ironically, the team he was traded to has not embraced Siakam's addition nor his comparatively self-less play.

According to you:
Selfless Siakam on Raptors = failed Raptors experiment & guy in his prime shouldn't have had to sacrifice
Selfless SIakam on Pacers = failed trade, Pacers guys are selfish and not using (a selfless) Siakam properly

Is your next progression Selfish Siakam / focal point on the Pacers = Siakam getting stats & $$ = path to success for the Pacers
because Siakam focal point = easiest path to success for the Raptors?

I don't think my post is that hard to understand? The Pacers and Raptors situations are completely different. The Pacers have a bona fide star in Haliburton who is a better offensive player than Pascal Siakam and the Pacers have the highest offensive rating in the league. The Raptors have Barnes, Barrett and Quickley who are worse offensive players than Pascal Siakam thus Pascal should have been featured to give the team the best chance to win.

So ya on the Pacers I expect Siakam to be selfless especially as he acclimates to the team and on the Raptors I expect him to be the #1 option so the team wins as many games as possible.


No offense taken but you've done a shite job of explaining what I got backwards and made it annoying to try and grasp whatever point you were trying to make, especially when you repeat the same observations I had made.

Scottie, RJ, IQ, Dennis, Jontay, etc. would all be making the passes those selfish Pacers guards aren't making to Siakam had he played the way he is now while still with the Raptors, and everyone would have been arguably better off if that were the case.

I just don't really understand what you are trying to say so the feeling is mutual. You point out the problems the Pacers have with freezing out/properly utilizing Pascal at the moment (treated like a "4th option") and than say oh if he just played like this on the Toronto Raptors he would still be here, fit with Barnes and we would have won more games? Its not just that the Pacer guards aren't passing to him he is not being put in positions to succeed (i.e. being parked at the corner three for multiple possessions or put away from the basket to allow Turner to work in the post).

I just don't understand how you are knowledgeable enough to summarize exactly why Pascal is not being utilized properly on the Pacers and why he looks like ass and than you turn around and say man I wish we had this Pacers Trashcal Siakam version on our 2023-2024 Toronto Raptors? The Pacers are not using him correctly its not just that the guards aren't passing to him!

[Dude-niagara]

What?

No offense but you have got everything backward.

The Pacers are completely looking off Siakam because they have selfish guards and run plays for Turner in the post. I didn't get a chance to watch the game today but the first two games I have no idea why he was brought there because anytime he had a mismatch or a transition opportunity he was completely ignored.

Huh? This is exactly what I said - dumb Pacers not giving Siakam the ball in the flow of the offense.

I was agreeing with you.

The Raptors easiest path to a successful season was to make Siakam the focal point. Early on in the season they tried to drastically reduce Pascal's role and it took a few games before everyone was wtf are the Raptors doing and he was reinstated in a more appropriate role. Its hard enough to get players in the NBA to sacrifice their stats in order to win but for some reason the fanbase here wants Pascal, in his prime, to sacrifice his stats, in a contract year, in order for us to be less competitive so Scottie can "learn." Like this is pro sports guys aren't here to learn if they are the best they will get those opportunities and if not you trade the better player and feature the youngster (like we did).

The way Siakam is willingly and successfully playing now on the Pacers is how you've described the team and fans urging Siakam to play and failing to do so. Somehow after the trade it got real easy for Siakam to buy into sacrificing touches and stats in what is still a contract year. Ironically, the team he was traded to has not embraced Siakam's addition nor his comparatively self-less play.

According to you:
Selfless Siakam on Raptors = failed Raptors experiment & guy in his prime shouldn't have had to sacrifice
Selfless SIakam on Pacers = failed trade, Pacers guys are selfish and not using (a selfless) Siakam properly

Is your next progression Selfish Siakam / focal point on the Pacers = Siakam getting stats & $$ = path to success for the Pacers
because Siakam focal point = easiest path to success for the Raptors?

I don't think my post is that hard to understand? The Pacers and Raptors situations are completely different. The Pacers have a bona fide star in Haliburton who is a better offensive player than Pascal Siakam and the Pacers have the highest offensive rating in the league. The Raptors have Barnes, Barrett and Quickley who are worse offensive players than Pascal Siakam thus Pascal should have been featured to give the team the best chance to win.

So ya on the Pacers I expect Siakam to be selfless especially as he acclimates to the team and on the Raptors I expect him to be the #1 option so the team wins as many games as possible.


No offense taken but you've done a shite job of explaining what I got backwards and made it annoying to try and grasp whatever point you were trying to make, especially when you repeat the same observations I had made.

Scottie, RJ, IQ, Dennis, Jontay, etc. would all be making the passes those selfish Pacers guards aren't making to Siakam had he played the way he is now while still with the Raptors, and everyone would have been arguably better off if that were the case.

I just don't really understand what you are trying to say so the feeling is mutual. You point out the problems the Pacers have with freezing out/properly utilizing Pascal at the moment (treated like a "4th option") and than say oh if he just played like this on the Toronto Raptors he would still be here, fit with Barnes and we would have won more games? Its not just that the Pacer guards aren't passing to him he is not being put in positions to succeed (i.e. being parked at the corner three for multiple possessions or put away from the basket to allow Turner to work in the post).

I just don't understand how you are knowledgeable enough to summarize exactly why Pascal is not being utilized properly on the Pacers and why he looks like ass and than you turn around and say man I wish we had this Pacers Trashcal Siakam version on our 2023-2024 Toronto Raptors? The Pacers are not using him correctly its not just that the guards aren't passing to him!

Just happy Siakam does not play for this team, no I am not a hater but I knew paying Siakam more after the age of 30 would not end well. So losing games this season with Siakam was really winning, I kinda figured if we sucked bad and lost then MLSE would never sign off on 4 year max and because of that Siakam is finally gone. I would love for the Pacers to give him a 5 year deal because again I have nothing against him and wish him great success with his new team

The truth is I stopped believing in this guy after the bubble when he choked as the top guy with a team that had a chance that year. Had Masai not had a huge emotional attachment with Siakam then the Raptors most likely have Haliburton on this team. Yes the Kings wanted Siakam after our Tampa tank season and Masai said no. The Kings had Siakam's good buddy Rico Hines as a lead assistant and after Raptors refused trade they traded Haliburton to the Pacers for Sabonis.

Maybe Siakam stans should think about that, Raptors could have had the best PG in the NBA and a top 8-10 player on our team and FO passed him over for Siakam.

Just glad it's finally over and we picked a direction…..GO RAPTORS!

[EastonEddy]

Just happy Siakam does not play for this team, no I am not a hater but I knew paying Siakam more after the age of 30 would not end well. So losing games this season with Siakam was really winning, I kinda figured if we sucked bad and lost then MLSE would never sign off on 4 year max and because of that Siakam is finally gone. I would love for the Pacers to give him a 5 year deal because again I have nothing against him and wish him great success with his new team

The truth is I stopped believing in this guy after the bubble when he choked as the top guy with a team that had a chance that year. Had Masai not had a huge emotional attachment with Siakam then the Raptors most likely have Haliburton on this team. Yes the Kings wanted Siakam after our Tampa tank season and Masai said no. The Kings had Siakam's good buddy Rico Hines as a lead assistant and after Raptors refused trade they traded Haliburton to the Pacers for Sabonis.

Maybe Siakam stans should think about that, Raptors could have had the best PG in the NBA and a top 8-10 player on our team and FO passed him over for Siakam.

Just glad it's finally over and we picked a direction…..GO RAPTORS!

Ya that's fair enough to be happy we chose a direction. The team could not go on any longer in its previous form so even though I am a big Siakam fan it was time to move on from him because the fit no longer makes sense because we are a losing team and he is an aging player.

I find it funny you stopped believing in Siakam after the bubble. So you stopped believing in him as a fourth year guy a year removed from hitting a championship winning shot and being arguably the Raptors second best player behind Kawhi on the 19-20 team?

The 20-21 year was Siakam's first year as the focal point of the team and one of the most unique seasons in NBA history due to the pandemic. They had a 53-19 record before the regular season ended due to the pandemic so Pascal didn't even get a full season as the man. Siakam's struggles in the playoffs are pretty well documented but, honestly, what I remember from that series is Pascal beating his defender time after time and missing a ton of bunnies. It sucked but I just saw a player who was having a bad series and missing a ton of easy looks (that he appeared to generate quite easily). This happens to a lot of young players learning to be the focal point of a team especially when you don't even get a full season to practice in that role.

I am not familiar with the offer for Haliburton but its easy to criticize with the benefit of hindsight. By the way who are you referring as a top 8-10 player is it Scottie Barnes? In Pascals third season he was an integral piece of a championship team and in his fourth season (first as primary option) his team had the second best record in the league. If you keep the faith in Scottie as long as you did in Pascal that means Scottie has like midway through 24-25 season before you write him off since you apparently didn't even give Pascal a full regular season as the first option before stopping believing in him. With all you have said about Pascal when Scottie loses to Memphis and Detroit in the same season how do you get past that in your mind lol?

[Dude-niagara]

Just happy Siakam does not play for this team, no I am not a hater but I knew paying Siakam more after the age of 30 would not end well. So losing games this season with Siakam was really winning, I kinda figured if we sucked bad and lost then MLSE would never sign off on 4 year max and because of that Siakam is finally gone. I would love for the Pacers to give him a 5 year deal because again I have nothing against him and wish him great success with his new team

The truth is I stopped believing in this guy after the bubble when he choked as the top guy with a team that had a chance that year. Had Masai not had a huge emotional attachment with Siakam then the Raptors most likely have Haliburton on this team. Yes the Kings wanted Siakam after our Tampa tank season and Masai said no. The Kings had Siakam's good buddy Rico Hines as a lead assistant and after Raptors refused trade they traded Haliburton to the Pacers for Sabonis.

Maybe Siakam stans should think about that, Raptors could have had the best PG in the NBA and a top 8-10 player on our team and FO passed him over for Siakam.

Just glad it's finally over and we picked a direction…..GO RAPTORS!

Ya that's fair enough to be happy we chose a direction. The team could not go on any longer in its previous form so even though I am a big Siakam fan it was time to move on from him because the fit no longer makes sense because we are a losing team and he is an aging player.

I find it funny you stopped believing in Siakam after the bubble. So you stopped believing in him as a fourth year guy a year removed from hitting a championship winning shot and being arguably the Raptors second best player behind Kawhi on the 19-20 team?

The 20-21 year was Siakam's first year as the focal point of the team and one of the most unique seasons in NBA history due to the pandemic. They had a 53-19 record before the regular season ended due to the pandemic so Pascal didn't even get a full season as the man. Siakam's struggles in the playoffs are pretty well documented but, honestly, what I remember from that series is Pascal beating his defender time after time and missing a ton of bunnies. It sucked but I just saw a player who was having a bad series and missing a ton of easy looks (that he appeared to generate quite easily). This happens to a lot of young players learning to be the focal point of a team especially when you don't even get a full season to practice in that role.

I am not familiar with the offer for Haliburton but its easy to criticize with the benefit of hindsight. By the way who are you referring as a top 8-10 player is it Scottie Barnes? In Pascals third season he was an integral piece of a championship team and in his fourth season (first as primary option) his team had the second best record in the league. If you keep the faith in Scottie as long as you did in Pascal that means Scottie has like midway through 24-25 season before you write him off since you apparently didn't even give Pascal a full regular season as the first option before stopping believing in him. With all you have said about Pascal when Scottie loses to Memphis and Detroit in the same season how do you get past that in your mind lol?

Haliburton was top 8-10 player we missed on, to be clear I stopped believing in Siakam after the bubble as the top option. he was always miscast and more suited to being a 2A or 2B guy. Even in his last ALL NBA season when the Raptors lost to Philly in the playoffs, he choked in game 3 and was not great in game 2. After you lose game 1 In a 7 game series, those are most important games because we fell behind 0-3 and series is over. I don't care that he played well in game 4 because it's garbage time at that point

Again I wish him and his family well and hope he gets paid full 5 year max with Pacers.

[pingpongrac]

Siakam is cooking the Sixers so far. 8/6/5 after the first quarter lol.

[Tripod]

Siakam is cooking the Sixers so far. 8/6/5 after the first quarter lol.

Nurse just helping another one of his guys get the bag

[Syd-TK3]

OG is genuinely the perfect fit for the Knicks

[lobosloboslobos]

OG with 22 pts, 5 steals and +36 in 25 mins against nuggets

holding jamaal murray to 9 pts on 3-11 in 30 mins

100-68 Knicks end of 3rd q

[Agimat]

Thibs has unlocked OG. A difference maker for the Knicks +201 and up, lol

[lobosloboslobos]

jesus OG will end the game at +38 in 29 minutes with 26 pts on 10/18 shooting and 6 steals

insane impact, as most of us always knew

[lobosloboslobos]

meanwhile pascal leads the pacers over a stomp of the 76ers with a triple double of 24/12/10 on 8-12 shooting

i guess that means tomorrow night RJ and IQ will smash the clips right? right?