Former Raptor discussion thread 3.0

[DemHeavyHands]

Banton last night vs Knicks , 42 minutes, 16 2 2. Second leading scorer. Only saw highlights, looked pretty good in transition.

That stat line is kind of awful for 42 min lol. He’s just an end of bench guy getting mins for a franchise that’s playing for ping pong balls

Well, he's scoring more than Gradey, in the same situation.

I always remember his game last season against the Pistons when Fred was out. Dalano was knocking down 3s and just dominating the game. I never understood why Nurse refused to play him much after that. It was one of many puzzling Nick moves that year.

Yeah I remember that game, half of the board was ready to declare dalano a better prospect than Scottie after that game

[mdenny]

OG had been a plus in every single game he has played for the Knicks. Crazy how impactful he is. Very underrated player while he was here by those who love the offensive jumpshooting combo-guard.

It's hilarious how crucial this stat is suddenly. And in terms of an 'impact measure' it's most effective in off-setting by team outcomes. (ie a +20 game in a 20 point win could be considered null in terms of relative impact).

But LUCKY FOR US....the two players you are comparing happened to play for the same team for multiple years!

Since 2018/19 season (including his NY tenure)....OG is a +903.

Since 2018/19 season....the player who you hilariously continue to claim "is not a point guard" (he's 4th in assists amongst point guards this season - not a common characteristic for those designated as 'combo-guards'). He's a +1311.

You were literally obsessed with blaming fred for everything while he lead our team in plus-minus. So this is all pretty hilarious.

So we have 6 seasons worth. 5 of which they played for the same team. A 408 point total difference.

So fred has been, on average, +68 points better than OG per season over the last 6 years. 5 of which they played on the same team.

In other words....you probably should reconsider everything you typed in this post.

[And1Skip]

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[kanersen]

OG had been a plus in every single game he has played for the Knicks. Crazy how impactful he is. Very underrated player while he was here by those who love the offensive jumpshooting combo-guard.

I'm not a stats guy but I assume this is good.

Read on Twitter

Really liking what we're getting from Quickley and Barrett too. Good trade for both teams. I always liked OG even more than Bridges but it was clear he wasn't returning. All those teams who weren't willing to give what the Knicks gave up really missed out.

Yup, welcome to what all of us here already knew.
Happy OG is getting recognized on a competitive NY team.

OG is the piece that puts you over the top, and this Raptors squad is worlds away from being in that conversation.
Quickley and RJ on the other hand, are great additions to our starting lineup. RJ's an absolute unit and gives our offence a new dimension we really needed.

Even Precious has managed to salvage his career on the Knicks as a bench piece.
Win-win trade.

[Tha Cynic]

OG had been a plus in every single game he has played for the Knicks. Crazy how impactful he is. Very underrated player while he was here by those who love the offensive jumpshooting combo-guard.

It's hilarious how crucial this stat is suddenly. And in terms of an 'impact measure' it's most effective in off-setting by team outcomes. (ie a +20 game in a 20 point win could be considered null in terms of relative impact).

But LUCKY FOR US....the two players you are comparing happened to play for the same team for multiple years!

Since 2018/19 season (including his NY tenure)....OG is a +903.

Since 2018/19 season....the player who you hilariously continue to claim "is not a point guard" (he's 4th in assists amongst point guards this season - not a common characteristic for those designated as 'combo-guards'). He's a +1311.

You were literally obsessed with blaming fred for everything while he lead our team in plus-minus. So this is all pretty hilarious.

So we have 6 seasons worth. 5 of which they played for the same team. A 408 point total difference.

So fred has been, on average, +68 points better than OG per season over the last 6 years. 5 of which they played on the same team.

In other words....you probably should reconsider everything you typed in this post.

OG. This is about OG. If you've watched OG and didn't like to use him as a scapegoat to move attention away from your favourite player, you would understand how impactful he is, especially if you project it in playoff scenarios where he won't be someone teams can focus on attacking.

[Los_29]

OG had been a plus in every single game he has played for the Knicks. Crazy how impactful he is. Very underrated player while he was here by those who love the offensive jumpshooting combo-guard.

It's hilarious how crucial this stat is suddenly. And in terms of an 'impact measure' it's most effective in off-setting by team outcomes. (ie a +20 game in a 20 point win could be considered null in terms of relative impact).

But LUCKY FOR US....the two players you are comparing happened to play for the same team for multiple years!

Since 2018/19 season (including his NY tenure)....OG is a +903.

Since 2018/19 season....the player who you hilariously continue to claim "is not a point guard" (he's 4th in assists amongst point guards this season - not a common characteristic for those designated as 'combo-guards'). He's a +1311.

You were literally obsessed with blaming fred for everything while he lead our team in plus-minus. So this is all pretty hilarious.

So we have 6 seasons worth. 5 of which they played for the same team. A 408 point total difference.

So fred has been, on average, +68 points better than OG per season over the last 6 years. 5 of which they played on the same team.

In other words....you probably should reconsider everything you typed in this post.

+1311 and +903 both seem wild. Wonder where that would rank league wide.

[right between the eyes]

Lmao at the 76ers signing DJ Wilson to a 10 day. This guy is cheeks. I guess Nurse sees something in him that nobody else does.

[WaltFrazier]

Lmao at the 76ers signing DJ Wilson to a 10 day. This guy is cheeks. I guess Nurse sees something in him that nobody else does.

I didn't realize till I read the wiretap article about this and looked at his career stats, Wilson has not played in the NBA since the 2022 season with Raps. Putting up numbers in the G league since then till this Sixers call up. He's got perseverance anyway.

[mdenny]

OG had been a plus in every single game he has played for the Knicks. Crazy how impactful he is. Very underrated player while he was here by those who love the offensive jumpshooting combo-guard.

It's hilarious how crucial this stat is suddenly. And in terms of an 'impact measure' it's most effective in off-setting by team outcomes. (ie a +20 game in a 20 point win could be considered null in terms of relative impact).

But LUCKY FOR US....the two players you are comparing happened to play for the same team for multiple years!

Since 2018/19 season (including his NY tenure)....OG is a +903.

Since 2018/19 season....the player who you hilariously continue to claim "is not a point guard" (he's 4th in assists amongst point guards this season - not a common characteristic for those designated as 'combo-guards'). He's a +1311.

You were literally obsessed with blaming fred for everything while he lead our team in plus-minus. So this is all pretty hilarious.

So we have 6 seasons worth. 5 of which they played for the same team. A 408 point total difference.

So fred has been, on average, +68 points better than OG per season over the last 6 years. 5 of which they played on the same team.

In other words....you probably should reconsider everything you typed in this post.

+1311 and +903 both seem wild. Wonder where that would rank league wide.

That 'bench mob' year.....fred/siakam/poetl were each around +300 on the season which matches the eye test. That season it felt like just about every game.....the bench mob would build a 15 point lead sometime late in the first/early in the second.

[mdenny]

OG had been a plus in every single game he has played for the Knicks. Crazy how impactful he is. Very underrated player while he was here by those who love the offensive jumpshooting combo-guard.

It's hilarious how crucial this stat is suddenly. And in terms of an 'impact measure' it's most effective in off-setting by team outcomes. (ie a +20 game in a 20 point win could be considered null in terms of relative impact).

But LUCKY FOR US....the two players you are comparing happened to play for the same team for multiple years!

Since 2018/19 season (including his NY tenure)....OG is a +903.

Since 2018/19 season....the player who you hilariously continue to claim "is not a point guard" (he's 4th in assists amongst point guards this season - not a common characteristic for those designated as 'combo-guards'). He's a +1311.

You were literally obsessed with blaming fred for everything while he lead our team in plus-minus. So this is all pretty hilarious.

So we have 6 seasons worth. 5 of which they played for the same team. A 408 point total difference.

So fred has been, on average, +68 points better than OG per season over the last 6 years. 5 of which they played on the same team.

In other words....you probably should reconsider everything you typed in this post.

OG. This is about OG. If you've watched OG and didn't like to use him as a scapegoat to move attention away from your favourite player, you would understand how impactful he is, especially if you project it in playoff scenarios where he won't be someone teams can focus on attacking.

My bad. So who was the 'offensive jumpshooting combo guard' you were talking about?

[Duffman100]

OG had been a plus in every single game he has played for the Knicks. Crazy how impactful he is. Very underrated player while he was here by those who love the offensive jumpshooting combo-guard.

It's hilarious how crucial this stat is suddenly. And in terms of an 'impact measure' it's most effective in off-setting by team outcomes. (ie a +20 game in a 20 point win could be considered null in terms of relative impact).

But LUCKY FOR US....the two players you are comparing happened to play for the same team for multiple years!

Since 2018/19 season (including his NY tenure)....OG is a +903.

Since 2018/19 season....the player who you hilariously continue to claim "is not a point guard" (he's 4th in assists amongst point guards this season - not a common characteristic for those designated as 'combo-guards'). He's a +1311.

You were literally obsessed with blaming fred for everything while he lead our team in plus-minus. So this is all pretty hilarious.

So we have 6 seasons worth. 5 of which they played for the same team. A 408 point total difference.

So fred has been, on average, +68 points better than OG per season over the last 6 years. 5 of which they played on the same team.

In other words....you probably should reconsider everything you typed in this post.

+1311 and +903 both seem wild. Wonder where that would rank league wide.

That concoction of the team really failed because of the consistent lack of a bench. The starters were actually pretty good.

Even with a bench, they weren't going to win a title. But we would have had another 50(ish) win team on our hands to build off of. Losing the assets of the title and missing on all the fringe pickups really hampered our ability to build that bench.

[YogurtProducer]

It's hilarious how crucial this stat is suddenly. And in terms of an 'impact measure' it's most effective in off-setting by team outcomes. (ie a +20 game in a 20 point win could be considered null in terms of relative impact).

But LUCKY FOR US....the two players you are comparing happened to play for the same team for multiple years!

Since 2018/19 season (including his NY tenure)....OG is a +903.

Since 2018/19 season....the player who you hilariously continue to claim "is not a point guard" (he's 4th in assists amongst point guards this season - not a common characteristic for those designated as 'combo-guards'). He's a +1311.

You were literally obsessed with blaming fred for everything while he lead our team in plus-minus. So this is all pretty hilarious.

So we have 6 seasons worth. 5 of which they played for the same team. A 408 point total difference.

So fred has been, on average, +68 points better than OG per season over the last 6 years. 5 of which they played on the same team.

In other words....you probably should reconsider everything you typed in this post.

+1311 and +903 both seem wild. Wonder where that would rank league wide.

That concoction of the team really failed because of the consistent lack of a bench. The starters were actually pretty good.

Even with a bench, they weren't going to win a title. But we would have had another 50(ish) win team on our hands to build off of. Losing the assets of the title and missing on all the fringe pickups really hampered our ability to build that bench.

Yeah for two years there I can remember thinking "it would be nice just once if our bench stole us a game". We got so accustomed for a half decade of our bench winning us games that when we went to the other polar extreme it was a culture shock

I think/hope that is where we are going again. Get 10 guys on the team who can all play to push each other and win games with multiple combinations. Then consolidate trade when it is time.

Our top end talent is worse now, but we conceivably have 9 or so guys right now (plus 3 possible picks this year) that I am comfortable seeing on the floor. It was tough with Svi and Hernangomez and Birch being our like 7th/8th men for two years

[dTox]

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[WaltFrazier]

+1311 and +903 both seem wild. Wonder where that would rank league wide.

That concoction of the team really failed because of the consistent lack of a bench. The starters were actually pretty good.

Even with a bench, they weren't going to win a title. But we would have had another 50(ish) win team on our hands to build off of. Losing the assets of the title and missing on all the fringe pickups really hampered our ability to build that bench.

Yeah for two years there I can remember thinking "it would be nice just once if our bench stole us a game". We got so accustomed for a half decade of our bench winning us games that when we went to the other polar extreme it was a culture shock

I think/hope that is where we are going again. Get 10 guys on the team who can all play to push each other and win games with multiple combinations. Then consolidate trade when it is time.

Our top end talent is worse now, but we conceivably have 9 or so guys right now (plus 3 possible picks this year) that I am comfortable seeing on the floor. It was tough with Svi and Hernangomez and Birch being our like 7th/8th men for two years

Re last paragraph, are there really 9 solid players now? I keep reading other posters say half the guys playing now won't be back.

[raptorforlife88]

Fred ranks 24th in the league in EPM this year. And honestly given the Rockets are 1-6 without him playing and 34-29 with him, that tracks.

[WaltFrazier]

That concoction of the team really failed because of the consistent lack of a bench. The starters were actually pretty good.

Even with a bench, they weren't going to win a title. But we would have had another 50(ish) win team on our hands to build off of. Losing the assets of the title and missing on all the fringe pickups really hampered our ability to build that bench.

Yes, literally every pick-up was a failure. That core would have been so much better with a bench that had a veteran backup PG and some shooting. It's the biggest reason the team is at such a low ebb now, that didn't have to be this way.

[Los_29]

That concoction of the team really failed because of the consistent lack of a bench. The starters were actually pretty good.

Even with a bench, they weren't going to win a title. But we would have had another 50(ish) win team on our hands to build off of. Losing the assets of the title and missing on all the fringe pickups really hampered our ability to build that bench.

Yeah for two years there I can remember thinking "it would be nice just once if our bench stole us a game". We got so accustomed for a half decade of our bench winning us games that when we went to the other polar extreme it was a culture shock

I think/hope that is where we are going again. Get 10 guys on the team who can all play to push each other and win games with multiple combinations. Then consolidate trade when it is time.

Our top end talent is worse now, but we conceivably have 9 or so guys right now (plus 3 possible picks this year) that I am comfortable seeing on the floor. It was tough with Svi and Hernangomez and Birch being our like 7th/8th men for two years

Re last paragraph, are there really 9 solid players now? I keep reading other posters say half the guys playing now won't be back.

This is a good question.

IQ, RJ, Scottie, Yak, GTJ, KO, Brown, Ochai and Gradey. Question marks with Ochai and Gradey as they still need to establish themselves. Potential to be a solid 9 though. Wonder if GTJ will be back. If not, they’ll have to replace him somehow.

[YogurtProducer]

That concoction of the team really failed because of the consistent lack of a bench. The starters were actually pretty good.

Even with a bench, they weren't going to win a title. But we would have had another 50(ish) win team on our hands to build off of. Losing the assets of the title and missing on all the fringe pickups really hampered our ability to build that bench.

Yeah for two years there I can remember thinking "it would be nice just once if our bench stole us a game". We got so accustomed for a half decade of our bench winning us games that when we went to the other polar extreme it was a culture shock

I think/hope that is where we are going again. Get 10 guys on the team who can all play to push each other and win games with multiple combinations. Then consolidate trade when it is time.

Our top end talent is worse now, but we conceivably have 9 or so guys right now (plus 3 possible picks this year) that I am comfortable seeing on the floor. It was tough with Svi and Hernangomez and Birch being our like 7th/8th men for two years

Re last paragraph, are there really 9 solid players now? I keep reading other posters say half the guys playing now won't be back.

What do you mean by right now? As in in our current state of tanking? If so yeah, I expect most of them to be gone. I am talking JFL, Carton, Boucher, Ramsey, McDaniels, etc.

But I think we do have 9/10 guys you can conceivably being guys who can talk yourself into being able to play (some) minutes on good teams: IQ, GTJ, Dick, Brown, Barrett, Agbaji, Barnes, Porter, Olynyk, Poeltl.

If we keep our pick and even get one rotational guy from IND/DET picks then we are looking at a 10-12 man roster you can build something with. Brown is likely traded, and I would bet only one of Agbaji/Porter actually become dependable bench guys but that is a huge step up from say 2021-22 when we last made the playoffs where after our starters (FVV/GTJ/Barnes/OG/SIama) our bench was Precious, Boucher, Thad, and Birch.

[WaltFrazier]

Pascal and Kawhi guarding each other right now.

Malachi 30 minutes, 14/3/3 vs Knicks tonight. Not sure he's in the NBA after this year.

[XTC]

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Brooks doesn't want it with Derozan.