Official NBA General Discussion 2023-24 V2.0

[mdenny]

"Get your bag culture" = maximizing one's career earnings.

This is the primary motivation for everyone. Not just basketball players. Criticizing players for 'trying to earn alot of money' is crazy.

[bballsparkin]

Rough start for JV in the 3rd quarter.

[ArthurVandelay]

"Get your bag culture" = maximizing one's career earnings.

This is the primary motivation for everyone. Not just basketball players. Criticizing players for 'trying to earn alot of money' is crazy.

I don't think anyone is criticizing players for trying to earn a lot of money. No one here has said that.

The issue is how players go about trying to earn a lot of money.

If the player's focus is on getting your touches or their role, AT THE EXPENSE OF TEAM SUCCESS, then there is the problem.

I believe that was the issue last year. Guys were worried about stats rather than team success. When stats becomes the primary motivational driver for getting the bag, your team culture is effed.

[Mikistan]

"Get your bag culture" = maximizing one's career earnings.

This is the primary motivation for everyone. Not just basketball players. Criticizing players for 'trying to earn alot of money' is crazy.

I don't think anyone is criticizing players for trying to earn a lot of money. No one here has said that.

The issue is how players go about trying to earn a lot of money.

If the player's focus is on getting your touches or their role, AT THE EXPENSE OF TEAM SUCCESS, then there is the problem.

I believe that was the issue last year. Guys were worried about stats rather than team success. When stats becomes the primary motivational driver for getting the bag, your team culture is effed.

Bet on yourself culture, gm talks about selfishness, team goes from one of the least assists per game to one of the most over 1 season, but we cant blame them!

[douggood]

530 et start time for bucks/pacers game 3

[Merit]

I said the same a few weeks ago. It's an extremely short list of teams that have won whose best player is an undersized guard. And the ones that did were generational talents, no doubt about it Hall of Famers. One of the refs in Game 1 was bigger than Brunson. Not bashing him at all, the guy is a bulldog and full credit to him for what he has become. But unfortunately, that unchangeable limitation is a thing.

They have the role player pieces who play huge and have the clutch gene. Josh Hart, OG, Donte. They’re hardcore. The pistons comparison is apt. They’re arguably better with Randle missing since they don’t have a poor defender who can be attacked, Brunson’s size differential aside. Thibs knows what he’s doing and he finally has decent personnel. OG is huge for them.

The Pistons comparison is what fans invoke to try and convince themselves their team can win without a top 10 player. We did the same many years ago when we had DD/Kyle leading us. They are the exception to the rule and of course it will eventually happen again but it won't be a team whose best player is a tiny guard. Not only did the rest of the last 30 title winners have a top 10 player at that time, almost all of them had a player (or 2-3) that are arguably among the top 100 players of all time.

We should also note that those Pistons did have 2 guys who ended up in the Hall of Fame (and I will insist Rasheed was better than both of them and would have been a HoFer if not for being a hothead, and pothead). These Knicks do not have anyone that will be in the Hall of Fame.

Having said all that, I don't dispute the rest of your post. Hart and Donte are absolute dogs, and I don't mind their swagger because they get after it at both ends. OG is OG, the only reason I think his contract will be brutal is because of how injury prone he is. And I also agree that they are better off without Randle. We've seen how embarrassingly bad he can be in the playoffs and right now he would be trying to do too much while Brunson is struggling.

Yeah I was thinking earlier pistons - bad boy pistons with Isaiah (Kyle/Brunson sized) Now of course they don’t have Dumars and Laimbeer etc. but they are defensive minded, have balanced scoring, two solid bigs and decent wing depth. Their ability to guard is what makes me believe in them. OG was a huge addition to their team.

The bad boy pistons were before my era of ball so maybe some of the posters with deeper knowledge can elaborate better than I can.

Agreed that Rasheed is deserving of being in the hall, but I’m not sure Ben Wallace would see much of the floor in this era. He’s like Bam without a shot. I think the storyline is what appeals to me the most, especially since the Knicks are the underdog. Also want to take a minute and shout you out for coming with facts and analysis. These types of conversations add value to the board. Cheers.

[Merit]

"Get your bag culture" = maximizing one's career earnings.

This is the primary motivation for everyone. Not just basketball players. Criticizing players for 'trying to earn alot of money' is crazy.

I don't think anyone is criticizing players for trying to earn a lot of money. No one here has said that.

The issue is how players go about trying to earn a lot of money.

If the player's focus is on getting your touches or their role, AT THE EXPENSE OF TEAM SUCCESS, then there is the problem.

I believe that was the issue last year. Guys were worried about stats rather than team success. When stats becomes the primary motivational driver for getting the bag, your team culture is effed.

Bet on yourself culture, gm talks about selfishness, team goes from one of the least assists per game to one of the most over 1 season, but we cant blame them!

Oh you can definitely blame Fred. I also think we needed a backup PG - or at least one more guard - and a backup big FAR sooner. My hypothesis is that would’ve both increased winning and reduced Fred’s ability to force the issue because there would’ve been at least a palatable alternative to him. Scottie at PG and operation 69 was a worthy idea but a failed experiment thus far.

[Dr Positivity]

This is why no one outside of Boston believes in Boston winning it all or believed that Tatum was a real MVP candidate.

They just don't perform in close games and for how talented Tatum is, he's just not THAT guy. I just don't see the killer in him like MJ, Kobe, KD and all the superstar level wings.

He is to a guy like Kawhi as Ewing is to Hakeem, just not quite the same level.

I do think though that "tier 1.5" stars hit the under in ring count since Isiah (yes he was in that category) possibly due to chance. Ewing could have won if Starks was clutch. Payton or Drexler could have won if they made the finals in the right year. Webber Kings got screwed. Etc. The Celtics can still win based on superb depth around a tier 1.5 star.

[Merit]

They have the role player pieces who play huge and have the clutch gene. Josh Hart, OG, Donte. They’re hardcore. The pistons comparison is apt. They’re arguably better with Randle missing since they don’t have a poor defender who can be attacked, Brunson’s size differential aside. Thibs knows what he’s doing and he finally has decent personnel. OG is huge for them.

The Pistons comparison is what fans invoke to try and convince themselves their team can win without a top 10 player. We did the same many years ago when we had DD/Kyle leading us. They are the exception to the rule and of course it will eventually happen again but it won't be a team whose best player is a tiny guard. Not only did the rest of the last 30 title winners have a top 10 player at that time, almost all of them had a player (or 2-3) that are arguably among the top 100 players of all time.

We should also note that those Pistons did have 2 guys who ended up in the Hall of Fame (and I will insist Rasheed was better than both of them and would have been a HoFer if not for being a hothead, and pothead). These Knicks do not have anyone that will be in the Hall of Fame.

Having said all that, I don't dispute the rest of your post. Hart and Donte are absolute dogs, and I don't mind their swagger because they get after it at both ends. OG is OG, the only reason I think his contract will be brutal is because of how injury prone he is. And I also agree that they are better off without Randle. We've seen how embarrassingly bad he can be in the playoffs and right now he would be trying to do too much while Brunson is struggling.

Knicks board has some talk of Randle for Kat. Others say add Donovan Mitchell somehow. I've no idea but it seems they have the picks and assets to sign a scorer this summer as well as re-sign OG. Lots of variables of course like most teams. But I think they're in one of the better positions in the league.

Kat >>>>>> Randle. Knicks can definitely add another star but if they get Mitchell, he better be able to guard up because that is a TINY backcourt, even with Mitchell’s shiftiness and wingspan.

[Merit]

This is why no one outside of Boston believes in Boston winning it all or believed that Tatum was a real MVP candidate.

They just don't perform in close games and for how talented Tatum is, he's just not THAT guy. I just don't see the killer in him like MJ, Kobe, KD and all the superstar level wings.

He is to a guy like Kawhi as Ewing is to Hakeem, just not quite the same level.

I do think though that "tier 1.5" stars hit the under in ring count since Isiah (yes he was in that category) possibly due to chance. Ewing could have won if Starks was clutch. Payton or Drexler could have won if they made the finals in the right year. Webber Kings got screwed. Etc. The Celtics can still win based on superb depth around a tier 1.5 star.

Agreed. Tier 1.5 stars need another two 2’s or another 1.5. I think Boston has that in Brown and Porzingis. I’d take the over on Boston. They just have too many weapons. Also Joe Mazzula is a killer.

[PhilBlackson]

This is why no one outside of Boston believes in Boston winning it all or believed that Tatum was a real MVP candidate.

They just don't perform in close games and for how talented Tatum is, he's just not THAT guy. I just don't see the killer in him like MJ, Kobe, KD and all the superstar level wings.

He is to a guy like Kawhi as Ewing is to Hakeem, just not quite the same level.

I do think though that "tier 1.5" stars hit the under in ring count since Isiah (yes he was in that category) possibly due to chance. Ewing could have won if Starks was clutch. Payton or Drexler could have won if they made the finals in the right year. Webber Kings got screwed. Etc. The Celtics can still win based on superb depth around a tier 1.5 star.

That's exactly the level I see Tatum at...Drexler, Ewing, Malone...really GREAT players but guys who weren't quite THE guy.

Of course I can't write him off because he hasn't even reached his peak & I guess you can give an outside hope that he has some sort of epiphany that he realizes he needs to with the attitude of a DOG & just be dominant and heck LEAD....I'm not talking sh*t as some Cs hater, I just genuinely don't see THAT kinda stuff in him. It actually reminds me of VC, all the talent in the world to be THE guy but doesn't quite have that fire CONSISTENTLY like the true elite of the elite have.

Like Tatum has the skillset to basically be a bigger version of Kawhi, can imagine if Kawhi was 6'9-6'10 like Tatum and healthy?! He'd be DOMINATING in the Playoffs, there's no reason Tatum shouldn't be crushing undersized MIA, he's probably taller/longer than anyone in the Heat's starting lineup and so skilled . I just find myself on too many occasions watching the Celtics in tough series and just waiting for JT to takeover and instead sometimes it's Brown being the one that tries to put on the cape and Tatum fades into the background, heck that happened for an entire series - you never heard of Pippen over MJ, Russ/Harden over KD etc for an ENTIRE SERIES. That just doesn't happen when you're one of those ones. I'm gonna have to see that from Tatum but right now I'm yet to.

[WaltFrazier]

Tatum says it himself in a NBA ad that was just on - playoff Jason is not a thing

[SirKen]

It would be poetic justice if Embiid gets a season or career ending injury in this series.

[Basketball_Jones]

Embiid injuring another player what a surprise. Only way this loser can win.

[GP2]

Embiid injuring another player what a surprise. Only way this loser can win.

I would never wish an injury on a player, but this guy makes it so tough.

[Basketball_Jones]

Embiid injuring another player what a surprise. Only way this loser can win.

I would never wish an injury on a player, but this guy makes it so tough.

Greatest free throw shooter of all time so exciting to watch. Really makes great use of that 7 foot height and athleticism on those free throws.

[GP2]

Embiid injuring another player what a surprise. Only way this loser can win.

I would never wish an injury on a player, but this guy makes it so tough.

Greatest free throw shooter of all time so exciting to watch. Really makes great use of that 7 foot height and athleticism on those free throws.

Oh, the free throw stuff is annoying, but mostly okay. I didn't really mind Houston Harden either. It's boring for sure, but that's a rules/officiating issue. Where Embiid gets me is him "clumsily" hurting people many times during his career. It's like he still doesn't know his own force and the space his body occupies.

[Wise80]

I would never wish an injury on a player, but this guy makes it so tough.

Greatest free throw shooter of all time so exciting to watch. Really makes great use of that 7 foot height and athleticism on those free throws.

Oh, the free throw stuff is annoying, but mostly okay. I didn't really mind Houston Harden either. It's boring for sure, but that's a rules/officiating issue. Where Embiid gets me is him "clumsily" hurting people many times during his career. It's like he still doesn't know his own force and the space his body occupies.

I youtubed it. Are we talking about the Robinson flagrant?

What a piece of ****. He's such a baby. Is Robinson out now, or is he fine?

[Duffman100]

Embiid is so dirty.

[mrdressup]

It would be poetic justice if Embiid gets a season or career ending injury in this series.

If you hire Nurse you should expect that guys will be overworked to make it look like he can coach. If you remove superstars from his teams he's shown himself to be a really mediocre coach that is averse to offensive structure. His approach to defense is similarly just to negate superstars. Win or die trying is always debatable. Winning, if it is just about sipping champagne is pretty hollow and quite ephemeral. The clock starts ticking on when your next championship is going to be the minute you win.