Official Ochai Agbaji Thread - Welcome to Toronto, Ochai!

[ForeverTFC]

Again, only a year ago:

Read on Twitter

That really just kind of proves my point though. Either they believed him to be that skilled, and then got a rude wake up call realizing he ain't it. Otherwise, why would they trade him for scraps.

Or they were posturing for more value, because it was at the trade deadline, and Ainge is one of the best GMs in the league.

Unless you can think of some reason why an "untouchable" 14th OA player was traded for one of the absolute worst picks in the first round, in a rumoured bad draft.

I think the situations are very different. If you read the Jazz forums and sub-reddits, they didn’t like the deal and giving up Ochai. The prevailing thought on their end is that:
1) they really wanted to trade Kelly instead of losing him for nothing but couldn’t fetch a first for him and needed to add something
2) Ochai is ultimately a role player and the Jazz would not be where they need to be to justify a second contract for him
3) this is a signal by Ainge that the rebuild will be longer than they thought after over performing last year and thinking they were ahead of schedule

Jazz don’t believe they have a number 1 yet. Raptors do. So our FO is valuing him different than the Jazz.

I’ve always said that not believing we have our franchise player in Barnes is a valid debate. And if you don’t think Scottie is that, then maybe you hold on for some <1% chance at the back end of the draft. But if you are a believer in Scottie, the expected value of Ocahi is just higher and the move makes a ton more sense when you realize how complementary he is to Scottie.

[BHF]

This is a sg version of Precious Achiuwa, hands of stone just the way Masai likes his african players

[Scase]

Again, only a year ago:

Read on Twitter

That really just kind of proves my point though. Either they believed him to be that skilled, and then got a rude wake up call realizing he ain't it. Otherwise, why would they trade him for scraps.

Or they were posturing for more value, because it was at the trade deadline, and Ainge is one of the best GMs in the league.

Unless you can think of some reason why an "untouchable" 14th OA player was traded for one of the absolute worst picks in the first round, in a rumoured bad draft.

I think the situations are very different. If you read the Jazz forums and sub-reddits, they didn’t like the deal and giving up Ochai.

TBF, tons of Raptors fans thought that Flynn just needed some extra time, or he was being used poorly, etc. So that shouldn't be factored in.

The prevailing thought on their end is that:
1) they really wanted to trade Kelly instead of losing him for nothing but couldn’t fetch a first for him and needed to add something
2) Ochai is ultimately a role player and the Jazz would not be where they need to be to justify a second contract for him
3) this is a signal by Ainge that the rebuild will be longer than they thought after over performing last year and thinking they were ahead of schedule

Number 1) is just a general expectation/hope of any expiring. And if Ochai was worth keeping, you'd rather let a 31 year old centre walk for nothing, than trading an "untouchable" prospect. Like would we trade Gradey for the 28th pick, just so Thad didn't walk for nothing? It doesn't check out at all.

Number 2) is really the same here as it is in Utah. We are not going to be where we need to be, to justify his second contract. Roleplayers of Ochai's quality/talent level are a dime a dozen. They are quite literally the last type of need you fill.

Number 3) this is speculation (as it all is tbf) that I think requires much more of a leap in logic over say, they realized he wasn't "untouchable", or were just posturing. No one ever considers a role player in a rebuild to be untouchable. The more obvious and realistic answer, is it was just to try and bleed more value out of a trade partner than the player is worth (Masai), and not some inherent spectacular value of a mid player.

Players of Scotties calibre are "untouchable", not a guy who has shown very few NBA level skills at 24.

Jazz don’t believe they have a number 1 yet. Raptors do. So our FO is valuing him different than the Jazz.

I’ve always said that not believing we have our franchise player in Barnes is a valid debate. And if you don’t think Scottie is that, then maybe you hold on for some <1% chance at the back end of the draft. But if you are a believer in Scottie, the expected value of Ocahi is just higher and the move makes a ton more sense when you realize how complementary he is to Scottie.

This for sure is up for debate. But even if we say that Scottie absolutely is that #1 player, there is no rush to get a player like Ochai. All of this is somewhat moot though, if we assume (as has been the case the last 4 years) that Masai thinks again that a rather limited core is "it".

If Masai pictures this core as the final centrepiece of a successful team, you are likely right in most of your assessment. I just hope that isn't the case, as I'd rather not be in this exact position again, 3-5 years from now.

[Thaddy]

A 23 year old whose only played 2 full seasons has things he needs to improve?

THIS IS SHOCKING NEWS.

Now while this is like 80% valid, I think a 4 year college player in his 2nd pro year, should be a much more polished player. This isn't a one and done, or a HS > pro player. Dude had 4 years in a highly organized league, playing for one of the best teams in the country. Same with Scottie winning ROTY, or this team winning the chip, expectations get raised.

Maybe I have lower expectations, but players taken mid 1st and beyond, aren't sure things. He was also taken higher than he probably should've been. If you can get a role player with a later pick, you've won. I think Ochai's shown enough as a POA defender and from corner 3 range to suggest he could develop into a top 9/10 rotation player. He isn't there yet, but I think it's too early to say either way.

I was mostly responding to the post above me suggesting that people are remaining silent on Ochai when this very thread is dedicated to him, with many people outlining his many flaws.

Is it worth investing the time to develop a player that only tops out as a top 9 rotation player? I'd rather have a pick that could be a young 19 year old like GG Jackson with core player potential.

[Tripod]

Now while this is like 80% valid, I think a 4 year college player in his 2nd pro year, should be a much more polished player. This isn't a one and done, or a HS > pro player. Dude had 4 years in a highly organized league, playing for one of the best teams in the country. Same with Scottie winning ROTY, or this team winning the chip, expectations get raised.

Maybe I have lower expectations, but players taken mid 1st and beyond, aren't sure things. He was also taken higher than he probably should've been. If you can get a role player with a later pick, you've won. I think Ochai's shown enough as a POA defender and from corner 3 range to suggest he could develop into a top 9/10 rotation player. He isn't there yet, but I think it's too early to say either way.

I was mostly responding to the post above me suggesting that people are remaining silent on Ochai when this very thread is dedicated to him, with many people outlining his many flaws.

Is it worth investing the time to develop a player that only tops out as a top 9 rotation player? I'd rather have a pick that could be a young 19 year old like GG Jackson with core player potential.

Why not both?

We have possibly 3 picks in the top 32 this year....if we want a GGJ tye, we can grab one.

Having a very good defensive guy can bring lots of value to a team. He has something others don't have. Now he needs to work on upping that S%

[Scase]

Maybe I have lower expectations, but players taken mid 1st and beyond, aren't sure things. He was also taken higher than he probably should've been. If you can get a role player with a later pick, you've won. I think Ochai's shown enough as a POA defender and from corner 3 range to suggest he could develop into a top 9/10 rotation player. He isn't there yet, but I think it's too early to say either way.

I was mostly responding to the post above me suggesting that people are remaining silent on Ochai when this very thread is dedicated to him, with many people outlining his many flaws.

Is it worth investing the time to develop a player that only tops out as a top 9 rotation player? I'd rather have a pick that could be a young 19 year old like GG Jackson with core player potential.

Why not both?

We have possibly 3 picks in the top 32 this year....if we want a GGJ tye, we can grab one.

Having a very good defensive guy can bring lots of value to a team. He has something others don't have. Now he needs to work on upping that S%

Why not use one of those picks to grab a 19 year old version of Ochai that you can develop into exactly what you need while having him on contract control for longer? I don't think Ochai is so bad we should just waive him, but he's also not really worth spending too much time on either.

It's all about roster spots IMO, the same reason I didn't want to see (pre all the injuries) GTJ out there eating up 30mpg and Gradey playing 15. There are limited minutes, and I'd rather spend those on guys who will be here for a while/are young. Ochai is 24 in less than a month, not old by any stretch, but compared to a 19/20 year old newly drafted, that's a rather large gap. He was traded for a reason.

[Tripod]

Is it worth investing the time to develop a player that only tops out as a top 9 rotation player? I'd rather have a pick that could be a young 19 year old like GG Jackson with core player potential.

Why not both?

We have possibly 3 picks in the top 32 this year....if we want a GGJ tye, we can grab one.

Having a very good defensive guy can bring lots of value to a team. He has something others don't have. Now he needs to work on upping that S%

Why not use one of those picks to grab a 19 year old version of Ochai that you can develop into exactly what you need while having him on contract control for longer? I don't think Ochai is so bad we should just waive him, but he's also not really worth spending too much time on either.

It's all about roster spots IMO, the same reason I didn't want to see (pre all the injuries) GTJ out there eating up 30mpg and Gradey playing 15. There are limited minutes, and I'd rather spend those on guys who will be here for a while/are young. Ochai is 24 in less than a month, not old by any stretch, but compared to a 19/20 year old newly drafted, that's a rather large gap. He was traded for a reason.

Again, we "could" possibly add 3 19-20 year olds this offseason if we want to.

And the deal wasn't just the 1st for Ochai, we added KO too.

So instead of taking an extra, very low chance of adding even a rotational player, we took the guaranteed one in KO and the young one with upside who has shown he CAN be that too. Knowing you have turned one pick into 2 depth guys, allows you even more rope to swing for the fences with the other picks. And reality is the Dteroit pick likely spend most the year in the 905.

Ochai fits the Barnes timeline. His defense fits a need. He is already a bench defensive guy vs guards. His shooting long term will determine how much playing time he gets. We need a shutdown guy. And reality is, lots of college guys play bad defense for their first few years in the league.

We turned 1 late asset into 2 assets that can 100% play in the rotation next year. That matters.

As for geing traded, Utah wanted to tank to keep their pick and were willing to to move 2 guys to play worse guys instead, for a shot in the dark pick. It's what Ainge does.

[PoundTown]

This dude was a 3 point sniper in college and can't hit a shot nowadays. Weird. If he can figure out the shot, he'd be really solid off the bench.

[Scase]

Why not both?

We have possibly 3 picks in the top 32 this year....if we want a GGJ tye, we can grab one.

Having a very good defensive guy can bring lots of value to a team. He has something others don't have. Now he needs to work on upping that S%

Why not use one of those picks to grab a 19 year old version of Ochai that you can develop into exactly what you need while having him on contract control for longer? I don't think Ochai is so bad we should just waive him, but he's also not really worth spending too much time on either.

It's all about roster spots IMO, the same reason I didn't want to see (pre all the injuries) GTJ out there eating up 30mpg and Gradey playing 15. There are limited minutes, and I'd rather spend those on guys who will be here for a while/are young. Ochai is 24 in less than a month, not old by any stretch, but compared to a 19/20 year old newly drafted, that's a rather large gap. He was traded for a reason.

Again, we "could" possibly add 3 19-20 year olds this offseason if we want to.

And the deal wasn't just the 1st for Ochai, we added KO too.

So instead of taking an extra, very low chance of adding even a rotational player, we took the guaranteed one in KO and the young one with upside who has shown he CAN be that too. Knowing you have turned one pick into 2 depth guys, allows you even more rope to swing for the fences with the other picks. And reality is the Dteroit pick likely spend most the year in the 905.

Ochai fits the Barnes timeline. His defense fits a need. He is already a bench defensive guy vs guards. His shooting long term will determine how much playing time he gets. We need a shutdown guy. And reality is, lots of college guys play bad defense for their first few years in the league.

We turned 1 late asset into 2 assets that can 100% play in the rotation next year. That matters.

As for geing traded, Utah wanted to tank to keep their pick and were willing to to move 2 guys to play worse guys instead, for a shot in the dark pick. It's what Ainge does.

Not sure how the roster spots are looking tbh, perhaps adding 3 is a possibility, but I can't remember with all the injuries, you are probably right

As for him being a "guaranteed" rotational player, I disagree with that. All he can do is play defence at an above average capacity, he can't shoot. That isn't a rotational player, not on a good team at least. As I've said before, he's a 4 year college player, they are supposed to be much more NBA ready than this.

Losing Ochai didn't make the Jazz worse, and as for KO they just didn't want to lose an asset for nothing. And if Ochai being included is part of that, it doesn't really speak much to his value. If he was truly worth keeping, they would have.

[islandboy53]

Why not use one of those picks to grab a 19 year old version of Ochai that you can develop into exactly what you need while having him on contract control for longer? I don't think Ochai is so bad we should just waive him, but he's also not really worth spending too much time on either.

It's all about roster spots IMO, the same reason I didn't want to see (pre all the injuries) GTJ out there eating up 30mpg and Gradey playing 15. There are limited minutes, and I'd rather spend those on guys who will be here for a while/are young. Ochai is 24 in less than a month, not old by any stretch, but compared to a 19/20 year old newly drafted, that's a rather large gap. He was traded for a reason.

Again, we "could" possibly add 3 19-20 year olds this offseason if we want to.

And the deal wasn't just the 1st for Ochai, we added KO too.

So instead of taking an extra, very low chance of adding even a rotational player, we took the guaranteed one in KO and the young one with upside who has shown he CAN be that too. Knowing you have turned one pick into 2 depth guys, allows you even more rope to swing for the fences with the other picks. And reality is the Dteroit pick likely spend most the year in the 905.

Ochai fits the Barnes timeline. His defense fits a need. He is already a bench defensive guy vs guards. His shooting long term will determine how much playing time he gets. We need a shutdown guy. And reality is, lots of college guys play bad defense for their first few years in the league.

We turned 1 late asset into 2 assets that can 100% play in the rotation next year. That matters.

As for geing traded, Utah wanted to tank to keep their pick and were willing to to move 2 guys to play worse guys instead, for a shot in the dark pick. It's what Ainge does.

Not sure how the roster spots are looking tbh, perhaps adding 3 is a possibility, but I can't remember with all the injuries, you are probably right

As for him being a "guaranteed" rotational player, I disagree with that. All he can do is play defence at an above average capacity, he can't shoot. That isn't a rotational player, not on a good team at least. As I've said before, he's a 4 year college player, they are supposed to be much more NBA ready than this.

Losing Ochai didn't make the Jazz worse, and as for KO they just didn't want to lose an asset for nothing. And if Ochai being included is part of that, it doesn't really speak much to his value. If he was truly worth keeping, they would have.

Ochai was a part of Utah's rotation last year, averaging 20 mpg, scoring 8 points on decent shooting, including 35% from 3, and solid defence. He was doing essentially the same this year on slightly lower 3 point shooting at the time of the trade. Obviously, getting a 1st back for Olynyk's expiring required sending back one of their many young prospects, including 2023 1st round picks George, Hendricks & Sensabaugh. George and Hendricks are arguably better prospects than Ochai, and Utah wasn't giving them up. Doesn't mean they didn't value him.

Ochai is a part of Toronto's rotation in the near term. His shooting should return to at least his Utah levels - good on corner 3's, not so much ATB - and he will continue to be part of the rotation as the team grows from rebuilding team with potential to good team.

[Tripod]

Again, we "could" possibly add 3 19-20 year olds this offseason if we want to.

And the deal wasn't just the 1st for Ochai, we added KO too.

So instead of taking an extra, very low chance of adding even a rotational player, we took the guaranteed one in KO and the young one with upside who has shown he CAN be that too. Knowing you have turned one pick into 2 depth guys, allows you even more rope to swing for the fences with the other picks. And reality is the Dteroit pick likely spend most the year in the 905.

Ochai fits the Barnes timeline. His defense fits a need. He is already a bench defensive guy vs guards. His shooting long term will determine how much playing time he gets. We need a shutdown guy. And reality is, lots of college guys play bad defense for their first few years in the league.

We turned 1 late asset into 2 assets that can 100% play in the rotation next year. That matters.

As for geing traded, Utah wanted to tank to keep their pick and were willing to to move 2 guys to play worse guys instead, for a shot in the dark pick. It's what Ainge does.

Not sure how the roster spots are looking tbh, perhaps adding 3 is a possibility, but I can't remember with all the injuries, you are probably right

As for him being a "guaranteed" rotational player, I disagree with that. All he can do is play defence at an above average capacity, he can't shoot. That isn't a rotational player, not on a good team at least. As I've said before, he's a 4 year college player, they are supposed to be much more NBA ready than this.

Losing Ochai didn't make the Jazz worse, and as for KO they just didn't want to lose an asset for nothing. And if Ochai being included is part of that, it doesn't really speak much to his value. If he was truly worth keeping, they would have.

Ochai was a part of Utah's rotation last year, averaging 20 mpg, scoring 8 points on decent shooting, including 35% from 3, and solid defence. He was doing essentially the same this year on slightly lower 3 point shooting at the time of the trade. Obviously, getting a 1st back for Olynyk's expiring required sending back one of their many young prospects, including 2023 1st round picks George, Hendricks & Sensabaugh. George and Hendricks are arguably better prospects than Ochai, and Utah wasn't giving them up. Doesn't mean they didn't value him.

Ochai is a part of Toronto's rotation in the near term. His shooting should return to at least his Utah levels - good on corner 3's, not so much ATB - and he will continue to be part of the rotation as the team grows from rebuilding team with potential to good team.

Exactly.

I have said all along that his defense makes him a rotational guy and that his shooting% will determine just how many minutes.

If he can even just hit the corner 3 at a good rate, he can play with the starters and fill a need. That need being guarding guards at POA and allowing others to slot into better defensive spots. And he is showing he can be a good backdoor cutter to the rim for YAK, IQ, KO and Barnes to feed for some easy dunks.

Having a guy focus on defense 1st, offense 2nd...and not worrying about "getting his", is OK.

And hey, if one of the drafted guys this year or next year become better than him, that's great. It helps to raise the floor.

But this deal was a low risk, solid reward. We already know what we were getting...and not getting.

[ArthurVandelay]

I'm hopeful on Agbaji.

It's not just his 3s, he was giving Gary a run for his money on the missed lay ups too.

But the last few games, he's making his drives and attempts in close. Hopefully he starts putting it all together. No reason he can't be 8/9/10th man in the rotation. Might not seem like much, but for the Raptors and the lack of depth the last few seasons, that is a start.

[Scase]

Again, we "could" possibly add 3 19-20 year olds this offseason if we want to.

And the deal wasn't just the 1st for Ochai, we added KO too.

So instead of taking an extra, very low chance of adding even a rotational player, we took the guaranteed one in KO and the young one with upside who has shown he CAN be that too. Knowing you have turned one pick into 2 depth guys, allows you even more rope to swing for the fences with the other picks. And reality is the Dteroit pick likely spend most the year in the 905.

Ochai fits the Barnes timeline. His defense fits a need. He is already a bench defensive guy vs guards. His shooting long term will determine how much playing time he gets. We need a shutdown guy. And reality is, lots of college guys play bad defense for their first few years in the league.

We turned 1 late asset into 2 assets that can 100% play in the rotation next year. That matters.

As for geing traded, Utah wanted to tank to keep their pick and were willing to to move 2 guys to play worse guys instead, for a shot in the dark pick. It's what Ainge does.

Not sure how the roster spots are looking tbh, perhaps adding 3 is a possibility, but I can't remember with all the injuries, you are probably right

As for him being a "guaranteed" rotational player, I disagree with that. All he can do is play defence at an above average capacity, he can't shoot. That isn't a rotational player, not on a good team at least. As I've said before, he's a 4 year college player, they are supposed to be much more NBA ready than this.

Losing Ochai didn't make the Jazz worse, and as for KO they just didn't want to lose an asset for nothing. And if Ochai being included is part of that, it doesn't really speak much to his value. If he was truly worth keeping, they would have.

Ochai was a part of Utah's rotation last year, averaging 20 mpg, scoring 8 points on decent shooting, including 35% from 3, and solid defence. He was doing essentially the same this year on slightly lower 3 point shooting at the time of the trade. Obviously, getting a 1st back for Olynyk's expiring required sending back one of their many young prospects, including 2023 1st round picks George, Hendricks & Sensabaugh. George and Hendricks are arguably better prospects than Ochai, and Utah wasn't giving them up. Doesn't mean they didn't value him.

Ochai is a part of Toronto's rotation in the near term. His shooting should return to at least his Utah levels - good on corner 3's, not so much ATB - and he will continue to be part of the rotation as the team grows from rebuilding team with potential to good team.

Ochai as recently as early Feb last year, was considered "untouchable" by the Jazz FO. Not even a year later and he's being traded for essentially scraps, that should say something. Ainge loves his draft picks, but he's also a rather good judge of talent/potential.

This holds a fair amount of weight in my assessment.

[islandboy53]

Not sure how the roster spots are looking tbh, perhaps adding 3 is a possibility, but I can't remember with all the injuries, you are probably right

As for him being a "guaranteed" rotational player, I disagree with that. All he can do is play defence at an above average capacity, he can't shoot. That isn't a rotational player, not on a good team at least. As I've said before, he's a 4 year college player, they are supposed to be much more NBA ready than this.

Losing Ochai didn't make the Jazz worse, and as for KO they just didn't want to lose an asset for nothing. And if Ochai being included is part of that, it doesn't really speak much to his value. If he was truly worth keeping, they would have.

Ochai was a part of Utah's rotation last year, averaging 20 mpg, scoring 8 points on decent shooting, including 35% from 3, and solid defence. He was doing essentially the same this year on slightly lower 3 point shooting at the time of the trade. Obviously, getting a 1st back for Olynyk's expiring required sending back one of their many young prospects, including 2023 1st round picks George, Hendricks & Sensabaugh. George and Hendricks are arguably better prospects than Ochai, and Utah wasn't giving them up. Doesn't mean they didn't value him.

Ochai is a part of Toronto's rotation in the near term. His shooting should return to at least his Utah levels - good on corner 3's, not so much ATB - and he will continue to be part of the rotation as the team grows from rebuilding team with potential to good team.

Ochai as recently as early Feb last year, was considered "untouchable" by the Jazz FO. Not even a year later and he's being traded for essentially scraps, that should say something. Ainge loves his draft picks, but he's also a rather good judge of talent/potential.

This holds a fair amount of weight in my assessment.

This is a weak argument, man. So, a year ago, Ochai was "untouchable" for Utah. Did he decline that badly this year? No, he did not. Even you must be able to see that. At the same time, as I noted, Utah added three (3) FRP's last June, and 2 of those 3 appear to have more potential than Agbaji. Hence, he was no longer untouchable. There's nothing complicated about it. To obtain their desired return for Olynyk, Utah had to include someone Toronto wanted, namely Agbaji.

I'm not sure what your end game is here. Agbaji is a work in progress, a young player with some potential who has a chance to become a solid rotation piece for us, no matter how many times you try to tell us otherwise. Your assessment here lacks much credibility, imo, but you're welcome to it.

[tdotrep2]

He's a great defender with a good looking shot... given the current situation we are in it is worth waiting to see if his shot comes around. If it does we would have a hell of a young role player on our hands.

[YogurtProducer]

Not sure how the roster spots are looking tbh, perhaps adding 3 is a possibility, but I can't remember with all the injuries, you are probably right

As for him being a "guaranteed" rotational player, I disagree with that. All he can do is play defence at an above average capacity, he can't shoot. That isn't a rotational player, not on a good team at least. As I've said before, he's a 4 year college player, they are supposed to be much more NBA ready than this.

Losing Ochai didn't make the Jazz worse, and as for KO they just didn't want to lose an asset for nothing. And if Ochai being included is part of that, it doesn't really speak much to his value. If he was truly worth keeping, they would have.

Ochai was a part of Utah's rotation last year, averaging 20 mpg, scoring 8 points on decent shooting, including 35% from 3, and solid defence. He was doing essentially the same this year on slightly lower 3 point shooting at the time of the trade. Obviously, getting a 1st back for Olynyk's expiring required sending back one of their many young prospects, including 2023 1st round picks George, Hendricks & Sensabaugh. George and Hendricks are arguably better prospects than Ochai, and Utah wasn't giving them up. Doesn't mean they didn't value him.

Ochai is a part of Toronto's rotation in the near term. His shooting should return to at least his Utah levels - good on corner 3's, not so much ATB - and he will continue to be part of the rotation as the team grows from rebuilding team with potential to good team.

Exactly.

I have said all along that his defense makes him a rotational guy and that his shooting% will determine just how many minutes.

If he can even just hit the corner 3 at a good rate, he can play with the starters and fill a need. That need being guarding guards at POA and allowing others to slot into better defensive spots. And he is showing he can be a good backdoor cutter to the rim for YAK, IQ, KO and Barnes to feed for some easy dunks.

Having a guy focus on defense 1st, offense 2nd...and not worrying about "getting his", is OK.

And hey, if one of the drafted guys this year or next year become better than him, that's great. It helps to raise the floor.

But this deal was a low risk, solid reward. We already know what we were getting...and not getting.

In terms of "fit" Agbaji to me actually might be a starter for us next year if he can actually find the 3 point shot a bit.

IQ/Agbaji/RJ/Barnes/Poeltl. Our starting lineup could use the POA defender, and our bench would actually be solid with some combination of Dick/Brown/GTJ/Olynyk/picks (or whoever those pieces end up being after the off-season)

[pingpongrac]

To me, Agbaji is a solid OG replacement in this new era of Raptors basketball. He doesn't have the versatility of OG who can defend 1-4 at a very high level and also defend some 5s adequately, but he's exactly what people had been pining for on the defensive end after the OG trade – as in a guy that can defend the elite guards – so Scottie can preserve some energy and roam a bit more on defence. Offensively, he's a bit more fluid than OG was in his first few seasons yet still not a guy that you want creating or being more than a 5th option at this stage. Similar to OG, he can be a decent offensive player if he gets most of his offence from corner threes and cuts/in transition.

I've been impressed with his play lately. 11/6/2 with some very solid defensive plays (and games) mixed in over the past 10 days. He just needs to get that three-point percentage in the 35-37% range and I can see him as the 5th starter alongside Quickley, Barrett, Scottie and Poeltl next season with Gradey being our 6th man playing 25+ minutes off the bench.

[Tripod]

Not sure how the roster spots are looking tbh, perhaps adding 3 is a possibility, but I can't remember with all the injuries, you are probably right

As for him being a "guaranteed" rotational player, I disagree with that. All he can do is play defence at an above average capacity, he can't shoot. That isn't a rotational player, not on a good team at least. As I've said before, he's a 4 year college player, they are supposed to be much more NBA ready than this.

Losing Ochai didn't make the Jazz worse, and as for KO they just didn't want to lose an asset for nothing. And if Ochai being included is part of that, it doesn't really speak much to his value. If he was truly worth keeping, they would have.

Ochai was a part of Utah's rotation last year, averaging 20 mpg, scoring 8 points on decent shooting, including 35% from 3, and solid defence. He was doing essentially the same this year on slightly lower 3 point shooting at the time of the trade. Obviously, getting a 1st back for Olynyk's expiring required sending back one of their many young prospects, including 2023 1st round picks George, Hendricks & Sensabaugh. George and Hendricks are arguably better prospects than Ochai, and Utah wasn't giving them up. Doesn't mean they didn't value him.

Ochai is a part of Toronto's rotation in the near term. His shooting should return to at least his Utah levels - good on corner 3's, not so much ATB - and he will continue to be part of the rotation as the team grows from rebuilding team with potential to good team.

Ochai as recently as early Feb last year, was considered "untouchable" by the Jazz FO. Not even a year later and he's being traded for essentially scraps, that should say something. Ainge loves his draft picks, but he's also a rather good judge of talent/potential.

This holds a fair amount of weight in my assessment.

When seeing what Jazz fans thought of the deal, hardly any were down on Ochai. They just thought there were only so many minutes and the younger guys needed those minutes.

And it's fine you think highly of Ainge, but it's not like Masai is a buffoon.

In the end, we have to wait to see how he develops. Let's see if an offseason with our development guys helps him take the next step.

[PD28]

If he can develop his shot, he'll be a player in this league. I don't think he's elite enough on the defensive end to overlook his lack of shooting.

[YogurtProducer]

Ochai was a part of Utah's rotation last year, averaging 20 mpg, scoring 8 points on decent shooting, including 35% from 3, and solid defence. He was doing essentially the same this year on slightly lower 3 point shooting at the time of the trade. Obviously, getting a 1st back for Olynyk's expiring required sending back one of their many young prospects, including 2023 1st round picks George, Hendricks & Sensabaugh. George and Hendricks are arguably better prospects than Ochai, and Utah wasn't giving them up. Doesn't mean they didn't value him.

Ochai is a part of Toronto's rotation in the near term. His shooting should return to at least his Utah levels - good on corner 3's, not so much ATB - and he will continue to be part of the rotation as the team grows from rebuilding team with potential to good team.

Ochai as recently as early Feb last year, was considered "untouchable" by the Jazz FO. Not even a year later and he's being traded for essentially scraps, that should say something. Ainge loves his draft picks, but he's also a rather good judge of talent/potential.

This holds a fair amount of weight in my assessment.

When seeing what Jazz fans thought of the deal, hardly any were down on Ochai. They just thought there were only so many minutes and the younger guys needed those minutes.

And it's fine you think highly of Ainge, but it's not like Masai is a buffoon.

In the end, we have to wait to see how he develops. Let's see if an offseason with our development guys helps him take the next step.

It is a hilariously bad take to act like Ainge's player evaluations should be taken as gospel but ignore Masais.

Some people on this board have legit convinced themselves Masai cannot evaluate talent. It is mind blowing.