[Woj] Dennis and Thad for Dinwiddie (waived)

[Johnny Bball]

I really don't get why people joke about "bitcoin" with Dinwiddie. What he did with his contract had nothing to do with Bitcoin. If his he was paid in Bitcoin back then, he'd be super rich by now as the price of BTC was like $7K and now its over $48K. I have some BTC in my portfolio and have made quite a bit of money on that when I sold at the high points and re-bought at the low points. I've had ETH too but got rid of that at profit. Anyways, what Dinwiddie did was a bit more complicated and don't quite understand it. As always with crypto, never trust all the crap coins out there. People rag on bitcoin but look at it now.

If everyone could buy low and sell high then we'd all be rich but the truth is a lot of people got screwed over in the crypto world. I'm not going to pretend I know enough to carry on this conversation though. I was just making a joke lol.

Yeah just people should just joke about "crypto" in general as if anyone actually knows a bit about investments, that bitcoin is not that. It never even fluctuated that much. The general rule was always just trust bitcoin and maybe etherium but nothing else.

There's a difference between trading something worthless to make money, as opposed to investing in it.

[brownbobcat]

I don't know that its matter where the pick is much in this draft. There's some talent in this draft. But does anyone really think you couldn't trade Poeltl for a say 10th - 15th pick in the draft? Is kind of splitting hairs TBH. The only part that makes people angry is seemingly not tanking it out for three years.

And I don't like Poeltl that much.

I think near every raptor was waiting/worrying abour being traded and the players really weren't putting in much effort. But we shall see.

We couldn't get a lottery pick in this weak draft for Pascal Siakam and you think we could get one for Jakob Poeltl?

Of course not, no lottery team will trade their lotto picks for a 3 month rental. Lol Indiana has no lottery picks, just like every other playoff/contender.

If Siakam is a rental, then so was Poeltl - Indiana just isn't dumb enough to trade a lightly protected future 1st.

[SpezNc]

If everyone could buy low and sell high then we'd all be rich but the truth is a lot of people got screwed over in the crypto world. I'm not going to pretend I know enough to carry on this conversation though. I was just making a joke lol.

Yeah just people should just joke about "crypto" in general as if anyone actually knows a bit about investments, that bitcoin is not that. It never even fluctuated that much. The general rule was always just trust bitcoin and maybe etherium but nothing else.

There's a difference between trading something worthless to make money, as opposed to investing in it.

We are getting far away from Basketball but crypto currency is like a legal ponzi scheme.

[Johnny Bball]

We couldn't get a lottery pick in this weak draft for Pascal Siakam and you think we could get one for Jakob Poeltl?

Of course not, no lottery team will trade their lotto picks for a 3 month rental. Lol Indiana has no lottery picks, just like every other playoff/contender.

If Siakam is a rental, then so was Poeltl - Indiana just isn't dumb enough to trade a lightly protected future 1st.

You mean like 2026 protected 1-4?

[brownbobcat]

Of course not, no lottery team will trade their lotto picks for a 3 month rental. Lol Indiana has no lottery picks, just like every other playoff/contender.

If Siakam is a rental, then so was Poeltl - Indiana just isn't dumb enough to trade a lightly protected future 1st.

You mean like 2026 protected 1-4?

They're not a lottery team.

[Mattatron]

We couldn't get a lottery pick in this weak draft for Pascal Siakam and you think we could get one for Jakob Poeltl?

Of course not, no lottery team will trade their lotto picks for a 3 month rental. Lol Indiana has no lottery picks, just like every other playoff/contender.

If Siakam is a rental, then so was Poeltl - Indiana just isn't dumb enough to trade a lightly protected future 1st.

Poeltl was no rental, because Masai made it clear that he don't want to rebuild and is pushing for the playoffs. + Poeltl wanted to come back to Toronto. Neither Washington, Detroit or another Lottery Team would trade their highly valued FRP's for Siakam who doesn't move the needle for them.

Again, why should a Lottery Team make a move for Siakam and give up Lotto Picks, for someone who doesn't want to play for a Lottery Team, and would leave in FA. This is nonsense. You just want to hate.

Indiana Pick 2026 is 1-4 protected.

[Mattatron]

If Siakam is a rental, then so was Poeltl - Indiana just isn't dumb enough to trade a lightly protected future 1st.

You mean like 2026 protected 1-4?

They're not a lottery team.

Didn't know u can see the future and the standings in 2 years from now.

[WaltFrazier]

this trade was just salary dump for Raptors; damn I always hate these types of trade by billionaires when the only purpose is to save money

I hate when things like this are done for other than basketball reasons

Raptors spend near the luxury tax every year even when they suck. This wasn’t done to save money. It was a cap move for next year to clear his salary to spend it elsewhere. Dinwiddie is paid regardless so also not to save money. It was for Scottie’s development on ball. What is the point of having an expiring Spencer Dinwiddie on this roster?

Who pays Dinwiddie the rest of the year of his contract? The Raptors or do Lakers take it over?

I get the reasons anyway, what I meant is I like trades where you get a player you think will help you on court more than the guy you gave up. It's the cap and contract stuff I don't like.

[ArthurVandelay]

If Siakam is a rental, then so was Poeltl - Indiana just isn't dumb enough to trade a lightly protected future 1st.

You mean like 2026 protected 1-4?

They're not a lottery team.

Memphis isn’t either

I get your point, but you just don’t know what could happen,

[ATLTimekeeper]

Here's the full Dennis-Raptors experience.

Raptors get outbid for Fred, surprised that Houston went for him instead of Harden. Plan B is Dennis.
Masai decides to feed the pigeons, "maybe it'll be good for us."
Scottie is given the second unit to run, because he's a PG, right?
Scottie flames out badly with the 2nd unit.
Darko calls Malachi ugly.
Malachi plays a little better, and Scottie defers to him.
OG traded, IQ is the new point guard and Dennis is benched for... Gary Trent Jr. (who has been pouting off the bench this whole time).
Dennis runs the bench like a pro.
Dennis calls out the team spirit.
Crickets.
Dennis traded for nothing because he did his job and let everyone know this situation is f'd.
Bobby Webster says they need to find guys that fit socially with Scottie.
Scottie back to running back-up PG and deferring to... Bruce Brown.
Gary is blowing 3:1 fast breaks and still seeing the floor.

Basically Dennis did what he was hired to do. He was a big drop off in quality from Fred, but a significant improvement over Malachi Flynn. He's probably too crotchety to have around a losing team.

[srhcan]

I hate when things like this are done for other than basketball reasons

Raptors spend near the luxury tax every year even when they suck. This wasn’t done to save money. It was a cap move for next year to clear his salary to spend it elsewhere. Dinwiddie is paid regardless so also not to save money. It was for Scottie’s development on ball. What is the point of having an expiring Spencer Dinwiddie on this roster?

Who pays Dinwiddie the rest of the year of his contract? The Raptors or do Lakers take it over?

I get the reasons anyway, what I meant is I like trades where you get a player you think will help you on court more than the guy you gave up. It's the cap and contract stuff I don't like.

Raptors. So Dinwiddie is going to get paid twice now: original contract's remaining money from Raptors + new contract's money from Lakers.

Why Raptors could not play hard ball with Dinwiddie like Hornets played with Lowry? Tell Dinwiddie to agree to buy out and play for another team which he want to play for or we will sit his a$$ on the bench remaining season. Dinwiddie wants to play so he would have agreed to buyout and Raptors would have saved some money. I think Bobby is not up to his job and take it too easy. You talk about his incompetence and somebody will mention the championship season and try to shut you up.

[Tha Cynic]

Here's the full Dennis-Raptors experience.

Raptors get outbid for Fred, surprised that Houston went for him instead of Harden. Plan B is Dennis.
Masai decides to feed the pigeons, "maybe it'll be good for us."
Scottie is given the second unit to run, because he's a PG, right?
Scottie flames out badly with the 2nd unit.
Darko calls Malachi ugly.
Malachi plays a little better, and Scottie defers to him.
OG traded, IQ is the new point guard and Dennis is benched for... Gary Trent Jr. (who has been pouting off the bench this whole time).
Dennis runs the bench like a pro.
Dennis calls out the team spirit.
Crickets.
Dennis traded for nothing because he did his job and let everyone know this situation is f'd.
Bobby Webster says they need to find guys that fit socially with Scottie.
Scottie back to running back-up PG and deferring to... Bruce Brown.
Gary is blowing 3:1 fast breaks and still seeing the floor.

Basically Dennis did what he was hired to do. He was a big drop off in quality from Fred, but a significant improvement over Malachi Flynn. He's probably too crotchety to have around a losing team.

Thanks Will for the "Dennis" perspective.

You may have forgotten that Schroder clearly signed here because he was told he would be a starter before season even started, and was pouting just like GTJ while he was playing off the bench. The team also sucked when they had him and all the veterans, and just decided to pull the plug. Something we can all agree was necessary.

It didn't make sense to keep a guy who wasn't part of the future plans, especially one who definitely likes to talk a lot, and in public. He routinely told is how much he loves some ex teammates even though he can't see to stick with any team (keeps being let go unceremoniously) and has even had trouble with the authorities in a previous stop. He very clearly didn't bond with anyone on the team other than a couple of bench guys who are all gone.

He is also very close with Darko and Darko clearly favoured him. There was nothing professional about this situation.

Anyway, did we not do him a favour by trading him away from a rebuild?

[Zeno]

Raptors spend near the luxury tax every year even when they suck. This wasn’t done to save money. It was a cap move for next year to clear his salary to spend it elsewhere. Dinwiddie is paid regardless so also not to save money. It was for Scottie’s development on ball. What is the point of having an expiring Spencer Dinwiddie on this roster?

Who pays Dinwiddie the rest of the year of his contract? The Raptors or do Lakers take it over?

I get the reasons anyway, what I meant is I like trades where you get a player you think will help you on court more than the guy you gave up. It's the cap and contract stuff I don't like.

Raptors. So Dinwiddie is going to get paid twice now: original contract's remaining money from Raptors + new contract's money from Lakers.

Why Raptors could not play hard ball with Dinwiddie like Hornets played with Lowry? Tell Dinwiddie to agree to buy out and play for another team which he want to play for or we will sit his a$$ on the bench remaining season. Dinwiddie wants to play so he would have agreed to buyout and Raptors would have saved some money. I think Bobby is not up to his job and take it too easy. You talk about his incompetence and somebody will mention the championship season and try to shut you up.

The reason why Dinwiddie wasn't forced to take a buyout is because he had a 1.5 million dollar bonus coming up if he played 2 more games. Now you will say, just don't play him and force a buyout. If you do that then you have the union filing a grievance on his behalf because there is money at stake in sitting the player. So they just decided to waive him immediately. Buyouts by the way are almost always for the exact amount the player will be paid by his new team which in this case is their prorated minimum. So roughly 2/5th of 2 million. So in the NBA world not much. But as to it just being Bobby taking it easy, that is just silly. It was because of the bonus structure in his contract.

[brownbobcat]

You mean like 2026 protected 1-4?

They're not a lottery team.

Didn't know u can see the future and the standings in 2 years from now.

I can see the present. Toronto was a lottery team the moment they traded for Poeltl and they haven't stopped being one since.

[Los_29]

They're not a lottery team.

Didn't know u can see the future and the standings in 2 years from now.

I can see the present. Toronto was a lottery team the moment they traded for Poeltl and they haven't stopped being one since.

I was not a fan of the deal but with Poeltl they were like 15-12. It was a decent team and far from a lottery team.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Here's the full Dennis-Raptors experience.

Raptors get outbid for Fred, surprised that Houston went for him instead of Harden. Plan B is Dennis.
Masai decides to feed the pigeons, "maybe it'll be good for us."
Scottie is given the second unit to run, because he's a PG, right?
Scottie flames out badly with the 2nd unit.
Darko calls Malachi ugly.
Malachi plays a little better, and Scottie defers to him.
OG traded, IQ is the new point guard and Dennis is benched for... Gary Trent Jr. (who has been pouting off the bench this whole time).
Dennis runs the bench like a pro.
Dennis calls out the team spirit.
Crickets.
Dennis traded for nothing because he did his job and let everyone know this situation is f'd.
Bobby Webster says they need to find guys that fit socially with Scottie.
Scottie back to running back-up PG and deferring to... Bruce Brown.
Gary is blowing 3:1 fast breaks and still seeing the floor.

Basically Dennis did what he was hired to do. He was a big drop off in quality from Fred, but a significant improvement over Malachi Flynn. He's probably too crotchety to have around a losing team.

Thanks Will for the "Dennis" perspective.

You may have forgotten that Schroder clearly signed here because he was told he would be a starter before season even started, and was pouting just like GTJ while he was playing off the bench. The team also sucked when they had him and all the veterans, and just decided to pull the plug. Something we can all agree was necessary.

It didn't make sense to keep a guy who wasn't part of the future plans, especially one who definitely likes to talk a lot, and in public. He routinely told is how much he loves some ex teammates even though he can't see to stick with any team (keeps being let go unceremoniously) and has even had trouble with the authorities in a previous stop. He very clearly didn't bond with anyone on the team other than a couple of bench guys who are all gone.

He is also very close with Darko and Darko clearly favoured him. There was nothing professional about this situation.

Anyway, did we not do him a favour by trading him away from a rebuild?

Dennis wasn't told he would start before the season started. It was discussed and it was his goal, but this wasn't a promise and he acknowledges that in this quote:

Schröder joins the Raptors with the expectation that he’ll be the starting point guard for the team next season. While he’s willing to accept whatever role he’s given, he and Rajaković have already discussed using him in the starting lineup and he said that’s his goal, “to lead the team.”


Was he unhappy to lose the starting spot Gary Trent Jr? Probably. Trent Jr played like trash off the bench. If you were doing what you were told to do at work, giving the same quality of work you are capable of in your career, and then demoted because the person in that position was dogging it you'd probably take that on the chin, right? That's what Dennis did. He played well off the bench, but the team was bleeding talent and injuries lined up that it didn't matter.

Darko favoured him by... not promising him anything and benching him for a black hole UFA that was dogging it all year? So unhealthy As far as doing him a favour, I could care less. Maybe he is very happy to get away from here and a losing culture. I prefer a competitive environment, and so I can sympathize with what Dennis may have been struggling with. If they just want players to go 'Scottie superdupertrooperstar, do I get my minutes now???" for the next few years maybe it'll lead to a positive outcome, but if someone says something that doesn't even point a finger like "team spirit isn't really there" and it's considered blasphemy by management I'm discouraged. I truly hope Dennis' grumpiness, which was a known thing for years, wasn't the motivation. It makes more sense to me that they need Scottie to stop deferring and are just clipping guys that can handle the ball, and since the next 30 games are irrelevant due to the pick problem, they decided to wash their hands of Dennis.

[Tha Cynic]

Here's the full Dennis-Raptors experience.

Raptors get outbid for Fred, surprised that Houston went for him instead of Harden. Plan B is Dennis.
Masai decides to feed the pigeons, "maybe it'll be good for us."
Scottie is given the second unit to run, because he's a PG, right?
Scottie flames out badly with the 2nd unit.
Darko calls Malachi ugly.
Malachi plays a little better, and Scottie defers to him.
OG traded, IQ is the new point guard and Dennis is benched for... Gary Trent Jr. (who has been pouting off the bench this whole time).
Dennis runs the bench like a pro.
Dennis calls out the team spirit.
Crickets.
Dennis traded for nothing because he did his job and let everyone know this situation is f'd.
Bobby Webster says they need to find guys that fit socially with Scottie.
Scottie back to running back-up PG and deferring to... Bruce Brown.
Gary is blowing 3:1 fast breaks and still seeing the floor.

Basically Dennis did what he was hired to do. He was a big drop off in quality from Fred, but a significant improvement over Malachi Flynn. He's probably too crotchety to have around a losing team.

Thanks Will for the "Dennis" perspective.

You may have forgotten that Schroder clearly signed here because he was told he would be a starter before season even started, and was pouting just like GTJ while he was playing off the bench. The team also sucked when they had him and all the veterans, and just decided to pull the plug. Something we can all agree was necessary.

It didn't make sense to keep a guy who wasn't part of the future plans, especially one who definitely likes to talk a lot, and in public. He routinely told is how much he loves some ex teammates even though he can't see to stick with any team (keeps being let go unceremoniously) and has even had trouble with the authorities in a previous stop. He very clearly didn't bond with anyone on the team other than a couple of bench guys who are all gone.

He is also very close with Darko and Darko clearly favoured him. There was nothing professional about this situation.

Anyway, did we not do him a favour by trading him away from a rebuild?

Dennis wasn't told he would start before the season started. It was discussed and it was his goal, but this wasn't a promise and he acknowledges that in this quote:

Schröder joins the Raptors with the expectation that he’ll be the starting point guard for the team next season. While he’s willing to accept whatever role he’s given, he and Rajaković have already discussed using him in the starting lineup and he said that’s his goal, “to lead the team.”

Come on, you have made enough assumptions in your takes to know that quote basically tells you he was all but under the table promised he would start. His coach had already told him he would run his own team one day and Schroder used that exact quote during an interview here. All we heard when Darko was first hired was how Barnes would get a ton of ballhandling duties to the point where people were asking him if he would start at PG (which never made sense anyway). Then after the Schroder was signed, all that talk went away and he even made conflicting comments about ballhandling where he basically gave away that something had shifted. A lot of posters called this out early after seeing this shift (before the season even started). It's pretty clear what happened here.

Was he unhappy to lose the starting spot Gary Trent Jr? Probably. Trent Jr played like trash off the bench. If you were doing what you were told to do at work, giving the same quality of work you are capable of in your career, and then demoted because the person in that position was dogging it you'd probably take that on the chin, right? That's what Dennis did. He played well off the bench, but the team was bleeding talent and injuries lined up that it didn't matter.

You think a guy in his contract year who didn't get the offers he thought he would get last offseason was "dogging it"? GTJ is a mediocre player who's best attribute is his outside shooting. He has been elite from there this season and sucks at everything else. He's playing how you would expect a player of his calibre to play. Darko moved Schroder to the bench to make Quickley the starting PG so we can develop him that way. This had nothing to do with GTJ. GTJ is in the starting lineup to balance the shooting while they play around Barnes, Quickley, Barrett and Poeltl. Was this the wrong move? We also have reports that Schroder as unhappy with that. The team is moving on to a rebuild - sorry Dennis, but you're a bench journeyman and the team isn't making decisions based on your happiness.

Darko favoured him by... not promising him anything and benching him for a black hole UFA that was dogging it all year? So unhealthy As far as doing him a favour, I could care less. Maybe he is very happy to get away from here and a losing culture. I prefer a competitive environment, and so I can sympathize with what Dennis may have been struggling with. If they just want players to go 'Scottie superdupertrooperstar, do I get my minutes now???" for the next few years maybe it'll lead to a positive outcome, but if someone says something that doesn't even point a finger like "team spirit isn't really there" and it's considered blasphemy by management I'm discouraged. I truly hope Dennis' grumpiness, which was a known thing for years, wasn't the motivation. It makes more sense to me that they need Scottie to stop deferring and are just clipping guys that can handle the ball, and since the next 30 games are irrelevant due to the pick problem, they decided to wash their hands of Dennis.

Schroder had one of the highest usage rates on the team for the majority of the season - even when we had Siakam. Initially he was second in usage to Barnes and then after we made Siakam more of a focal point, he was highest behind Siakam. He also consistently had the highest usage in the 4th quarter behind Barnes. This team pulled the plug and having Schroder control the ball was doing nothing for development.

Also, you can continue with your Barnes mocking comments (no different than the FVV haters make that some of you like to white knight against), but Barnes does need to be developed as a ballhandler. Is this a hard concept to understand? What exactly is it doing for us to have a journeyman bench player handling the ball over both Barnes and Quickley in a lost season? Again, is this a hard concept to understand? How long do you want us to bang out heads against a wall? Whether you like it or not, put personal feelings aside. This team needs Quickley and Barnes to simply develop and get better as primary ballhandlers and scorers. This means learning how to shift defenses. This season a shift has been made. We cannot have what happened last season.

[Walid]

Dennis adapted to the team direction over the course of the season and still played well off the bench. He was one of our most consistent players and our best ball-handler. Outside of one report by Grange via his sources, I haven’t heard a peep on Schroder pouting about coming off the bench. And we all know how well received Grange is on here….

I also don’t think it’s abnormal for the way he was playing to have felt down about the situation. Players have egos and want to contribute…his expectations of what he was brought in to do changed. Even so, it’s not like he disrupted the team’s play on the court or its chemistry off the court. He made the effort to lead and did his job as best he could. I thought his time here was solid.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Barnes was running the 2nd unit to start the year, which is where he has been assigned since the trade. The first run didn't work. Skill development occurs in the summer. Everyone knows this. IQ and Dennis weren't getting in each other's way. I don't think Dennis and Scottie were getting in each other's way, either. You need more than 1 guy that can break down a defense with his handle, so to keep dropping them just seems like more waste, when the actual need is time. Summer time.

[bluerap23]

Here's the full Dennis-Raptors experience.

Raptors get outbid for Fred, surprised that Houston went for him instead of Harden. Plan B is Dennis.
Masai decides to feed the pigeons, "maybe it'll be good for us."
Scottie is given the second unit to run, because he's a PG, right?
Scottie flames out badly with the 2nd unit.
Darko calls Malachi ugly.
Malachi plays a little better, and Scottie defers to him.
OG traded, IQ is the new point guard and Dennis is benched for... Gary Trent Jr. (who has been pouting off the bench this whole time).
Dennis runs the bench like a pro.
Dennis calls out the team spirit.
Crickets.
Dennis traded for nothing because he did his job and let everyone know this situation is f'd.
Bobby Webster says they need to find guys that fit socially with Scottie.
Scottie back to running back-up PG and deferring to... Bruce Brown.
Gary is blowing 3:1 fast breaks and still seeing the floor.

Basically Dennis did what he was hired to do. He was a big drop off in quality from Fred, but a significant improvement over Malachi Flynn. He's probably too crotchety to have around a losing team.

1. Do you have any evidence of Gary pouting? Everything I've heard is that he has been a complete professional.

2. Dennis was traded because they want IQ and Scotty running the offence at all times the rest of the season.