Head Coach isn't it

[disoblige]

I'd almost be a little disappointed to see him copy paste some sets that may suit the sun's,OKC, grizz rosters but not necessarily the current Raptors. The best coach should be designing offense according to players versus what's worked in the past.

from
https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/comments/170l5rq/hints_at_darkos_new_offence/

[nikster]

Detroit are 19th because they are missing their shots and removed it at some point. This is from Detroit.

https://www.hooperuniversity.com/breakdowns/the-importance-of-playing-point-five-basketball
"This poster featuring their offensive pillars hangs in the Detroit Piston’s locker room"

https://www.reddit.com/r/DetroitPistons/comments/13x9uxt/what_is_this_05_offense_all_about_for_the_phoenix/
This is the Detroit forum.



No, its in the rules that isos, off the dribble shots and midrange are not welcomed. Clearly want cuts and drive&kick - that's not dynamic. Basing the whole offense on cheesing with cuts and drive will only work for so long. Opponents will eventually adapt. If he imployed this to improve player's habits, the best habit is applying their tools in the correct situation. This offense isnt it.

At no point in the season were the Pistons moving the ball. Raptors came out averaging
300 passes per game, Detroit 240, with no meaningful change since their season began. Just because you found a poster with similar principles doesn't mean they are doing the same offense, and they clearly never implemented it in the same way. Just making **** up about Detroit

See the logo or see the caption where this was located on that site. Detroit first 4 games they averaged 28.75 assist. We averaged 27.3 assists in the last 3 games. Like I said, this was abolished at some point when they realized it wasnt working.


https://www.hooperuniversity.com/breakdowns/the-importance-of-playing-point-five-basketball

. The coaching staff had so little faith in their system they abandon it after 4 games? And they abandon it after going 2-2 and the go on the historic losing streak with the new offense and this is proof the passing system doesn't work?

This is even dumber than I thought

[disoblige]

At no point in the season were the Pistons moving the ball. Raptors came out averaging
300 passes per game, Detroit 240, with no meaningful change since their season began. Just because you found a poster with similar principles doesn't mean they are doing the same offense, and they clearly never implemented it in the same way. Just making **** up about Detroit

See the logo or see the caption where this was located on that site. Detroit first 4 games they averaged 28.75 assist. We averaged 27.3 assists in the last 3 games. Like I said, this was abolished at some point when they realized it wasnt working.


https://www.hooperuniversity.com/breakdowns/the-importance-of-playing-point-five-basketball

. The coaching staff had so little faith in their system they abandon it after 4 games? And they abandon it after going 2-2 and the go on the historic losing streak with the new offense and this is proof the passing system doesn't work?

This is even dumber than I thought

YOU should provide better evidences. Total assist number is not hard evidence when they were lacking good players. There's clearly a logo on that image and he was the coach who invented this. You obviously in denial and dont listen. No point talking to you and muted.


The essense of this offense is less isolations.

[islandboy53]

Agbaji shrinks the floor and nobody defends him in the corners. He's the only constant in our starting rotation now, 30 minutes+.

It's clean slate time.

Do you really think Agbaji is getting 30+ minutes with Barnes, Barrett, Quickley and Poeltl in the lineup? Give your head a vigorous shake! That said, this extra run is great development for him that he wouldn't otherwise have. Looking forward to his continued growth, in both the remaining games and the offseason. He'll be a solid part of the rotation next season.

What does that have to do with his inabilities to hit an NBA three now?

Making 3's will be important to him in terms of the role he plays next year. The extended minutes right now are allowing him time to work on that aspect of his game, a summer of work will no doubt have a lot of focus on it as well, and we'll see how he looks next year when he returns to a bench role. At the same time, he's working on every aspect of his game, which is good. That said, your whole point was, "it's clean slate time" because Agbaji is getting 30+ minutes as a starter even though he's not hitting 3's. We're not trying to win games. Who did you want to put into that starting role at this point, McDaniels? Dick and Agbaji are the featured young guys at this point, and rightly so.

[nikster]

See the logo or see the caption where this was located on that site. Detroit first 4 games they averaged 28.75 assist. We averaged 27.3 assists in the last 3 games. Like I said, this was abolished at some point when they realized it wasnt working.


https://www.hooperuniversity.com/breakdowns/the-importance-of-playing-point-five-basketball

. The coaching staff had so little faith in their system they abandon it after 4 games? And they abandon it after going 2-2 and the go on the historic losing streak with the new offense and this is proof the passing system doesn't work?

This is even dumber than I thought

YOU should provide better evidences. Total assist number is not hard evidence when they were lacking good players. There's clearly a logo on that image and he was the coach who invented this. You obviously in denial and dont listen. No point talking to you and muted.


The essense of this offense is less isolations.

I was using passes not assists. I'm not the one making stupid claims. Raptora are averaging like 60 more passes per game the entire season and you want to claim their offense is identical because of a poster.

Indiana is also the best offense in the league and they're right up there in that chart....

[ruckus]

He is obviously been trying to implement this since the start of the season. Guess which team I got this from? Arguably the worst team ever, 23-24 Detroit Pistons. Darko and Monty was using this while in Phoenix and Darko is currently running it for the Raptors.


Above rules says:
1st option: RIM
2nd option: Corner 3
3rd option: Non Corner 3
4th option: Paint 2
5th option: Non Paint 2's
Anything after the last 8's


^Raptors Shots Distribution

"No plan survives contact with the enemy". This is doom to fail against prepared teams. I prefer an offense to be dynamic, leveraging player's strengths and play what the defense is giving them.

It comes down to your philosophies on team building. Do you acquire the players first and build a gameplan around them? Or do you develop a gameplan and acquire the players to fit it?

The Raps are going with option #2 after years of doing the opposite. The whole We the North era waa gameplanned around Demar first. And when teams were able to prep, they got shut down pretty easily.

The championship year was an anomaly as they got a new coach and a new centerpiece practically simultaneously so they had the gameplan and players in place from the jump.

For a team like the Raptors that has difficulty attracting the players that you develop your offense around in free agency, it makes sense that they go this route where they have an offensive philosophy and then acquire the players to fit either through drafting or through trade.

The overall premise of .5 basketball is sound especially in today's NBA - make quick reads and quick decisions. The team just isn't talented enough at this point to translate these philosophies into success.

You're looking for a dynamic offense. .5 is as close to dynamic as you're going to get.

[disoblige]

You're looking for a dynamic offense. .5 is as close to dynamic as you're going to get.

Rule:1 beats Rule:2 . So their choices are actually attack the rim or pass. Off the drible shots, mid-range and ISOs are not welcomed. I think this is huge for Quickley or similar players. I am not suprised that Darko needed to remind him to have fun. Imagine all your signature moves taken away.

I dont have anything against Darko as a person. Masai wanted to abolish the ISO basketball.

[ruckus]

You're looking for a dynamic offense. .5 is as close to dynamic as you're going to get.

Rule:1 beats Rule:2 . So their choices are actually attack the rim or pass. Off the drible shots, mid-range and ISOs are not welcomed. I think this is huge for Quickley or similar players. I am not suprised that Darko needed to remind him to have fun.

I dont have anything against Darko as a person. Masai wanted to abolish the ISO basketball.

I mean, rule 1 is just smart offense in terms of %'s and something that most Raptors' fans have been clamoring for since the Demar days. If midrange and ISO are your goto's your gonna have a bad time. The only players shooting midrange shots nowadays are experts at it (i.e. Demar) and ISO really should only happen if the play breaks down.

The teams that run the most ISO plays have the personnel to perform it effectively and those are the players that are the hardest to acquire. Raps have no one like that. Barrett may be the closest but, to me, he's been more effective and efficient under Darko than he was under Thibs.

[disoblige]

You're looking for a dynamic offense. .5 is as close to dynamic as you're going to get.

Rule:1 beats Rule:2 . So their choices are actually attack the rim or pass. Off the drible shots, mid-range and ISOs are not welcomed. I think this is huge for Quickley or similar players. I am not suprised that Darko needed to remind him to have fun.

I dont have anything against Darko as a person. Masai wanted to abolish the ISO basketball.

I mean, rule 1 is just smart offense in terms of %'s and something that most Raptors' fans have been clamoring for since the Demar days. If midrange and ISO are your goto's your gonna have a bad time. The only players shooting midrange shots nowadays are experts at it (i.e. Demar) and ISO really should only happen if the play breaks down.

The teams that run the most ISO plays have the personnel to perform it effectively and those are the players that are the hardest to acquire. Raps have no one like that. Barrett may be the closest but, to me, he's been more effective and efficient under Darko than he was under Thibs.

He installed this when we had Siakam. I think Siakam wanted to cry in this interview. He wanted to "continue to be me"
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/video/pascal-siakam-discusses-role-darko-201025723.html

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Do you really think Agbaji is getting 30+ minutes with Barnes, Barrett, Quickley and Poeltl in the lineup? Give your head a vigorous shake! That said, this extra run is great development for him that he wouldn't otherwise have. Looking forward to his continued growth, in both the remaining games and the offseason. He'll be a solid part of the rotation next season.

What does that have to do with his inabilities to hit an NBA three now?

Making 3's will be important to him in terms of the role he plays next year. The extended minutes right now are allowing him time to work on that aspect of his game, a summer of work will no doubt have a lot of focus on it as well, and we'll see how he looks next year when he returns to a bench role. At the same time, he's working on every aspect of his game, which is good. That said, your whole point was, "it's clean slate time" because Agbaji is getting 30+ minutes as a starter even though he's not hitting 3's. We're not trying to win games. Who did you want to put into that starting role at this point, McDaniels? Dick and Agbaji are the featured young guys at this point, and rightly so.

If he's getting 30 minutes now and sucking, why do we need to take a year to explore. Cut bait, move on. He's not that special.

[Rapsalot]

Would have rather had Ime Udoka to try and lead SB, DS, OGA, PS and JP to see if he could have gotten them to play as a playoff team knowing the $$$$$. Would have been crazy.

Still would like him over Darko for getting most out of next few years.

[ConSarnit]

What does that have to do with his inabilities to hit an NBA three now?

Making 3's will be important to him in terms of the role he plays next year. The extended minutes right now are allowing him time to work on that aspect of his game, a summer of work will no doubt have a lot of focus on it as well, and we'll see how he looks next year when he returns to a bench role. At the same time, he's working on every aspect of his game, which is good. That said, your whole point was, "it's clean slate time" because Agbaji is getting 30+ minutes as a starter even though he's not hitting 3's. We're not trying to win games. Who did you want to put into that starting role at this point, McDaniels? Dick and Agbaji are the featured young guys at this point, and rightly so.

If he's getting 30 minutes now and sucking, why do we need to take a year to explore. Cut bait, move on. He's not that special.

How don’t you understand why he’s playing? Who is going to play above him? He’s a 2nd year player on a team with massive injury issues so he’s going to get reps. Who else should those reps be going to? This shouldn’t be hard to understand.

You want to give more minutes to Temple? Because that’s the alternative here. When guys like JFL and Ramsey are getting 20+ mpg we’ve reached the absolute bottom of the barrel. That’s why Agbaji plays and gets reps.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Making 3's will be important to him in terms of the role he plays next year. The extended minutes right now are allowing him time to work on that aspect of his game, a summer of work will no doubt have a lot of focus on it as well, and we'll see how he looks next year when he returns to a bench role. At the same time, he's working on every aspect of his game, which is good. That said, your whole point was, "it's clean slate time" because Agbaji is getting 30+ minutes as a starter even though he's not hitting 3's. We're not trying to win games. Who did you want to put into that starting role at this point, McDaniels? Dick and Agbaji are the featured young guys at this point, and rightly so.

If he's getting 30 minutes now and sucking, why do we need to take a year to explore. Cut bait, move on. He's not that special.

How don’t you understand why he’s playing? Who is going to play above him? He’s a 2nd year player on a team with massive injury issues so he’s going to get reps. Who else should those reps be going to? This shouldn’t be hard to understand.

You want to give more minutes to Temple? Because that’s the alternative here. When guys like JFL and Ramsey are getting 20+ mpg we’ve reached the absolute bottom of the barrel. That’s why Agbaji plays and gets reps.

He's not a starter. So, I don't care if he's on the team or not. I'd like him more if he shot 36%, but he's below 25%. He's not above average at his position. I don't see a reason for the investment.

[islandboy53]

If he's getting 30 minutes now and sucking, why do we need to take a year to explore. Cut bait, move on. He's not that special.

How don’t you understand why he’s playing? Who is going to play above him? He’s a 2nd year player on a team with massive injury issues so he’s going to get reps. Who else should those reps be going to? This shouldn’t be hard to understand.

You want to give more minutes to Temple? Because that’s the alternative here. When guys like JFL and Ramsey are getting 20+ mpg we’ve reached the absolute bottom of the barrel. That’s why Agbaji plays and gets reps.

He's not a starter. So, I don't care if he's on the team or not. I'd like him more if he shot 36%, but he's below 25%. He's not above average at his position. I don't see a reason for the investment.

Agbaji shot 35.5% last year, his rookie year, on 228 total attempts over 59 games, including 22 starts. This year, in 51 games in Utah, including 10 starts, he shot 33.1% on 142 attempts. Since arriving in Toronto, in 19 games, including 11 starts, he's shooting 23.2% on 56 attempts. For his very brief career, he's shooting 33.1% on 426 total attempts. I think writing him off as a shooter based on this very small sample size is a mistake.

We know he's not a starter, but we still need a bench. Agbaji's defence alone should make him a good bench player for us. When his shot develops, he could be a very good bench player.

[nikster]

Rule:1 beats Rule:2 . So their choices are actually attack the rim or pass. Off the drible shots, mid-range and ISOs are not welcomed. I think this is huge for Quickley or similar players. I am not suprised that Darko needed to remind him to have fun.

I dont have anything against Darko as a person. Masai wanted to abolish the ISO basketball.

I mean, rule 1 is just smart offense in terms of %'s and something that most Raptors' fans have been clamoring for since the Demar days. If midrange and ISO are your goto's your gonna have a bad time. The only players shooting midrange shots nowadays are experts at it (i.e. Demar) and ISO really should only happen if the play breaks down.

The teams that run the most ISO plays have the personnel to perform it effectively and those are the players that are the hardest to acquire. Raps have no one like that. Barrett may be the closest but, to me, he's been more effective and efficient under Darko than he was under Thibs.

He installed this when we had Siakam. I think Siakam wanted to cry in this interview. He wanted to "continue to be me"
https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/video/pascal-siakam-discusses-role-darko-201025723.html

Yeah and after a slow start Siakam was playing as good as ever and better than he's played in Indiana so far.

His last 30 games as a Raptors he averaged 24/5 on 62TS%. By far the most efficient play he's had since Kawhi left. But of course you take a quote from pre season to support your stance with no on court data to back it up.

[Scase]

How don’t you understand why he’s playing? Who is going to play above him? He’s a 2nd year player on a team with massive injury issues so he’s going to get reps. Who else should those reps be going to? This shouldn’t be hard to understand.

You want to give more minutes to Temple? Because that’s the alternative here. When guys like JFL and Ramsey are getting 20+ mpg we’ve reached the absolute bottom of the barrel. That’s why Agbaji plays and gets reps.

He's not a starter. So, I don't care if he's on the team or not. I'd like him more if he shot 36%, but he's below 25%. He's not above average at his position. I don't see a reason for the investment.

Agbaji shot 35.5% last year, his rookie year, on 228 total attempts over 59 games, including 22 starts. This year, in 51 games in Utah, including 10 starts, he shot 33.1% on 142 attempts. Since arriving in Toronto, in 19 games, including 11 starts, he's shooting 23.2% on 56 attempts. For his very brief career, he's shooting 33.1% on 426 total attempts. I think writing him off as a shooter based on this very small sample size is a mistake.

We know he's not a starter, but we still need a bench. Agbaji's defence alone should make him a good bench player for us. When his shot develops, he could be a very good bench player.

While I agree thus far the sample size isn't big, he's taken 196 career 3's, 154 of them outside of the right corner. He has shot 27% on those. Based on his current NBA production, he is statistically a terrible 3pt shooter outside of a single area on the entire court.

[islandboy53]

He's not a starter. So, I don't care if he's on the team or not. I'd like him more if he shot 36%, but he's below 25%. He's not above average at his position. I don't see a reason for the investment.

Agbaji shot 35.5% last year, his rookie year, on 228 total attempts over 59 games, including 22 starts. This year, in 51 games in Utah, including 10 starts, he shot 33.1% on 142 attempts. Since arriving in Toronto, in 19 games, including 11 starts, he's shooting 23.2% on 56 attempts. For his very brief career, he's shooting 33.1% on 426 total attempts. I think writing him off as a shooter based on this very small sample size is a mistake.

We know he's not a starter, but we still need a bench. Agbaji's defence alone should make him a good bench player for us. When his shot develops, he could be a very good bench player.

While I agree thus far the sample size isn't big, he's taken 196 career 3's, 154 of them outside of the right corner. He has shot 27% on those. Based on his current NBA production, he is statistically a terrible 3pt shooter outside of a single area on the entire court.

I hadn't previously looked at player shooting stats on nba.com from this perspective. A review of Ochai's numbers with both Toronto and Utah is interesting.

Last year with the Jazz, he shot 39.5% on 38 left corner 3's, 50% on 58 right corner 3's and 27.7% on 130 from ATB.
This year with the Jazz, he shot 36.1% on 36 left corner 3's, 50% on 30 right corner 3's, and 25% on 76 from ATB.
This year with the Raps, he shot 41.7% on 12 left corner 3's, 21.4% on 14 right corner 3's and 16.7% on 30 from ATB.

So, if we leave out the Toronto sample, which is small and doubtless skewed by his change to a new system and new responsibilities, we can see that Ochai shoots adequately from the left corner, quite well from the right corner, and poorly above the break. Lots of room to improve, but that's to be expected from a 2nd year player.

[disoblige]

This site will give some background on Darko and Monty’s offense (the image).

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/raptors-coach-darko-rajakovic-philosophies-what-toronto-needs/riigtkkybgdhuupatxehvnsa

[Scase]

Agbaji shot 35.5% last year, his rookie year, on 228 total attempts over 59 games, including 22 starts. This year, in 51 games in Utah, including 10 starts, he shot 33.1% on 142 attempts. Since arriving in Toronto, in 19 games, including 11 starts, he's shooting 23.2% on 56 attempts. For his very brief career, he's shooting 33.1% on 426 total attempts. I think writing him off as a shooter based on this very small sample size is a mistake.

We know he's not a starter, but we still need a bench. Agbaji's defence alone should make him a good bench player for us. When his shot develops, he could be a very good bench player.

While I agree thus far the sample size isn't big, he's taken 196 career 3's, 154 of them outside of the right corner. He has shot 27% on those. Based on his current NBA production, he is statistically a terrible 3pt shooter outside of a single area on the entire court.

I hadn't previously looked at player shooting stats on nba.com from this perspective. A review of Ochai's numbers with both Toronto and Utah is interesting.

Last year with the Jazz, he shot 39.5% on 38 left corner 3's, 50% on 58 right corner 3's and 27.7% on 130 from ATB.
This year with the Jazz, he shot 36.1% on 36 left corner 3's, 50% on 30 right corner 3's, and 25% on 76 from ATB.
This year with the Raps, he shot 41.7% on 12 left corner 3's, 21.4% on 14 right corner 3's and 16.7% on 30 from ATB.

So, if we leave out the Toronto sample, which is small and doubtless skewed by his change to a new system and new responsibilities, we can see that Ochai shoots adequately from the left corner, quite well from the right corner, and poorly above the break. Lots of room to improve, but that's to be expected from a 2nd year player.

I bundled his Utah/Raps attempts together, and he's shooting markedly below league average. Also I think you might be mixing up the left/right, either that or I am lol.

His bad corner he is shooting 36% on the year, with league average from there being 39%. I'm not going to say by any stretch that this is definitively who he is as a player for the rest of his career, but 200 shots can't be ignored, and it's a pattern across 2 seasons. I would agree with your defence of "second year player" if he were not about to turn 24 and had 4 years of college under his belt. Those players are expected to be much more NBA ready than he is.

[ConSarnit]

If he's getting 30 minutes now and sucking, why do we need to take a year to explore. Cut bait, move on. He's not that special.

How don’t you understand why he’s playing? Who is going to play above him? He’s a 2nd year player on a team with massive injury issues so he’s going to get reps. Who else should those reps be going to? This shouldn’t be hard to understand.

You want to give more minutes to Temple? Because that’s the alternative here. When guys like JFL and Ramsey are getting 20+ mpg we’ve reached the absolute bottom of the barrel. That’s why Agbaji plays and gets reps.

He's not a starter. So, I don't care if he's on the team or not. I'd like him more if he shot 36%, but he's below 25%. He's not above average at his position. I don't see a reason for the investment.

Why are you ignoring every other factor that is involved in Agbaji playing significant minutes? No one is saying he should be a starter on a good team (or the fully realized version of this team). What incentive is there to cut bait on him now when the season is lost and we have a ton of injuries? Have you considered any of the following?

-he's a 2nd year player who has shot 36% from 3 in his rookie season (last year). So he's a young player still figuring out his shot. The results aren't great but his shot isn't broken

-your "below 25%" number is based on 56 total 3pa. That is an incredibly small sample size. The difference between you wanting to "invest" in him and "cut" him is literally 7 makes/misses. You can't make judgement calls off of such small sample sizes

-the 2 Raptors who have assisted Agbaji the most often: Olynyk and Dick. That's the state of this team. How many good looks do you think this team is generating for each other?

-the alternative to playing Agbaji less is playing absolute end of bench guys like Temple more. What purpose would it serve to play Temple over Agbaji? We have G-league guys (JFL and Ramsey) playing 20 mpg. We have no other options but to play anyone who has shown anything at an NBA level.

No one here is saying Agbaji should be starting on the 2017 Warriors. He's starting because he's a 2nd year guard who has shown some flashes that might lead to an NBA career and he's playing on a bottom feeding team that is going through significant injury issues. You're acting like playing the guy is killing our chances at the 1 seed.