Raptors should announce retiring Vince Carter's jersey soon

[wegotthabeet]

Here are the Raptors that should have their jerseys retired:
1. Lowry
2. DeMar
3. Siakam

All of them are active.

Or more than one playoff series like Vince did in Toronto.

Don’t forget that Vince was also this franchise’s biggest unrestricted free agent signing ever, by a wide margin. And unlike Lowry he didn’t re-sign because the Raptors had by far the highest offer.

See it's disingenuous sh*t like this which annoys me regarding people overinflating Vince's legacy as a means of trying to justify retiring his jersey.

I am not giving Vince Carter credit for re-signing with Toronto when he got the maximum offer possible under the then-current CBA designations and it was an extension, not him re-signing in free agency: https://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/02/sports/pro-basketball-carter-agrees-to-contract-olajuwon-to-join-raptors.html

Carter, who averaged 27.6 points a game last season, will receive the maximum amount of money allowable under the league's collective bargaining agreement. The exact figure, which will be about $90 million, will not be determined until the salary cap for the 2002-3 season is set. Whatever the number, Carter, 24, will be the highest-paid athlete in Canadian history.

This also happened after the team gave away assets to sign a washed Hakeem via a sign and trade (Granted the Rockets didn't get anything out of the trade in the long run but I digress), while Carter got a 94M/6 year extension after the salary cap was determined.

"It's obvious that Vince is certainly a player that qualifies for whatever the maximum allows," said Grunwald, who pumped his fists when Carter thanked him for giving him time to decide. "We've been talking about Vince, about his desire to make sure that he's happy here. We want him to be a Raptor for life."

I am not giving him credit for being the "biggest UFA signing" when he still had a year on his deal when the extension was signed, when it was the best offer possible under the CBA i.e. this wasn't some Dirk taking a paycut to help the Mavericks out in free agency and how he forced his way off the team despite being under that new, pricey contract for a few more years. This is like if Scottie Barnes won MVP next season and we called extending him "our biggest restricted free agent signing" shortly thereafter.

Of course it was an extension. He could have walked at the end of the following year because he would have become an unrestricted free agent. Nothing disingenuous about that. It’s pure facts. Restricted free agency didn’t exist until the 99 cba. Older rookie contracts were grandfathered in. Do your **** homework before ranting.

[CazOnReal]

Don’t forget that Vince was also this franchise’s biggest unrestricted free agent signing ever, by a wide margin. And unlike Lowry he didn’t re-sign because the Raptors had by far the highest offer.

See it's disingenuous sh*t like this which annoys me regarding people overinflating Vince's legacy as a means of trying to justify retiring his jersey.

I am not giving Vince Carter credit for re-signing with Toronto when he got the maximum offer possible under the then-current CBA designations and it was an extension, not him re-signing in free agency: https://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/02/sports/pro-basketball-carter-agrees-to-contract-olajuwon-to-join-raptors.html

Carter, who averaged 27.6 points a game last season, will receive the maximum amount of money allowable under the league's collective bargaining agreement. The exact figure, which will be about $90 million, will not be determined until the salary cap for the 2002-3 season is set. Whatever the number, Carter, 24, will be the highest-paid athlete in Canadian history.

This also happened after the team gave away assets to sign a washed Hakeem via a sign and trade (Granted the Rockets didn't get anything out of the trade in the long run but I digress), while Carter got a 94M/6 year extension after the salary cap was determined.

"It's obvious that Vince is certainly a player that qualifies for whatever the maximum allows," said Grunwald, who pumped his fists when Carter thanked him for giving him time to decide. "We've been talking about Vince, about his desire to make sure that he's happy here. We want him to be a Raptor for life."

I am not giving him credit for being the "biggest UFA signing" when he still had a year on his deal when the extension was signed, when it was the best offer possible under the CBA i.e. this wasn't some Dirk taking a paycut to help the Mavericks out in free agency and how he forced his way off the team despite being under that new, pricey contract for a few more years. This is like if Scottie Barnes won MVP next season and we called extending him "our biggest restricted free agent signing" shortly thereafter.

Of course it was an extension. He could have walked at the end of the following year because he would have become an unrestricted free agent. Nothing disingenuous about that. It’s pure facts. Restricted free agency didn’t exist until the 99 cba. Older rookie contracts were grandfathered in. Do your **** homework before ranting.

1. RFA status might have been "official" circa-1999 but NBA free agency up until the late 80s was essentially endless RFA status for teams since they could continue to match offers made for their players one contract after another; it's part of why there was so little player movement up until the 00s, both due to the stigma surrounding it i.e. how the few stars that did move like Barkley and Shaq were perceived as for doing so (Shaq in particular despite him being lowballed by the Magic before they came out with a serious offer when he brought them to the Finals a year prior) and because it took the player's union a ton to fight for what is considered unrestricted free agency, which began with Tom Chambers. Don't tell me to do my own homework when you don't know what you're talking about regarding the history of free agency.

2. You said "unlike Lowry he didn’t re-sign because the Raptors had by far the highest offer" when Vince literally got the highest possible offer allowed, which is disingenuous. There was no way Toronto was going to give him less than the max offer, and Vince wasn't going to accept less than the max for an extension. More importantly, no other team could have offered him anything because no one else could have offered Vince an extension at the time said extension was made because that is not how extensions/UFAs worked even at the time. He re-signed because the Raptors had the highest offer - and they would continue to have the highest offer due to owning his Bird Rights if were he to enter free agency in 2002.

Yeah, Vince stayed while McGrady left without an extension during that period where rookies could leave due to inherently possessing UFA status after their rookie contract (which if I recall was before rookie scale contracts were designated under the CBA), but I attribute that to the FO not f*cking that up like Orlando did with Shaq, which is one of the few times i'll give that era's FO any sort of credit even if it's the "do your jobs" minimum that was sadly not as common a la the Magic's aforementioned screwing things up with Shaq. He wasn't doing it as some favor to the organization that drafted him a la the aforementioned discount Dirk took, he did it because the alternative was potentially getting injured and losing out on money in free agency which, given Vince already had some history with knee injuries (Back in January of that same year if I recall was the first notable, non-surgery requiring incident), he was obviously going to take.

If anything, all this does is make McGrady look even worse for leaving than he did at the time/for the FO screwing things up when it came to their relationship with Tracy that they bungled a potential McGrady/Carter duo as they entered their primes.

[wegotthabeet]

See it's disingenuous sh*t like this which annoys me regarding people overinflating Vince's legacy as a means of trying to justify retiring his jersey.

I am not giving Vince Carter credit for re-signing with Toronto when he got the maximum offer possible under the then-current CBA designations and it was an extension, not him re-signing in free agency: https://www.nytimes.com/2001/08/02/sports/pro-basketball-carter-agrees-to-contract-olajuwon-to-join-raptors.html


This also happened after the team gave away assets to sign a washed Hakeem via a sign and trade (Granted the Rockets didn't get anything out of the trade in the long run but I digress), while Carter got a 94M/6 year extension after the salary cap was determined.



I am not giving him credit for being the "biggest UFA signing" when he still had a year on his deal when the extension was signed, when it was the best offer possible under the CBA i.e. this wasn't some Dirk taking a paycut to help the Mavericks out in free agency and how he forced his way off the team despite being under that new, pricey contract for a few more years. This is like if Scottie Barnes won MVP next season and we called extending him "our biggest restricted free agent signing" shortly thereafter.

Of course it was an extension. He could have walked at the end of the following year because he would have become an unrestricted free agent. Nothing disingenuous about that. It’s pure facts. Restricted free agency didn’t exist until the 99 cba. Older rookie contracts were grandfathered in. Do your **** homework before ranting.

1. RFA status might have been "official" circa-1999 but NBA free agency up until the late 80s was essentially endless RFA status for teams since they could continue to match offers made for their players one contract after another; it's part of why there was so little player movement up until the 00s, both due to the stigma surrounding it i.e. how the few stars that did move like Barkley and Shaq were perceived as for doing so (Shaq in particular despite him being lowballed by the Magic before they came out with a serious offer when he brought them to the Finals a year prior) and because it took the player's union a ton to fight for what is considered unrestricted free agency, which began with Tom Chambers. Don't tell me to do my own homework when you don't know what you're talking about regarding the history of free agency.

2. You said "unlike Lowry he didn’t re-sign because the Raptors had by far the highest offer" when Vince literally got the highest possible offer allowed, which is disingenuous. There was no way Toronto was going to give him less than the max offer, and Vince wasn't going to accept less than the max for an extension. More importantly, no other team could have offered him anything because no one else could have offered Vince an extension at the time said extension was made because that is not how extensions/UFAs worked even at the time. He re-signed because the Raptors had the highest offer - and they would continue to have the highest offer due to owning his Bird Rights if were he to enter free agency in 2002.

Yeah, Vince stayed while McGrady left without an extension during that period where rookies could leave due to inherently possessing UFA status after their rookie contract (which if I recall was before rookie scale contracts were designated under the CBA), but I attribute that to the FO not f*cking that up like Orlando did with Shaq, which is one of the few times i'll give that era's FO any sort of credit even if it's the "do your jobs" minimum that was sadly not as common a la the Magic's aforementioned screwing things up with Shaq. He wasn't doing it as some favor to the organization that drafted him a la the aforementioned discount Dirk took, he did it because the alternative was potentially getting injured and losing out on money in free agency which, given Vince already had some history with knee injuries (Back in January of that same year if I recall was the first notable, non-surgery requiring incident), he was obviously going to take.

If anything, all this does is make McGrady look even worse for leaving than he did at the time/for the FO screwing things up when it came to their relationship with Tracy that they bungled a potential McGrady/Carter duo as they entered their primes.

I don’t get why you’re knocking a guy for signing for the max or pretending like those offers wouldn’t have been there a year later from other teams. Vince’s AAV was higher in 2001 than Lowry’s in 2014 nominally speaking. Forget that Lowry signed for less 20% of the cap and no other team came close to offering him a similar deal. And yeah he deserves some credit for not just walking like his cousin did.

[PerfectJab]

Of course it was an extension. He could have walked at the end of the following year because he would have become an unrestricted free agent. Nothing disingenuous about that. It’s pure facts. Restricted free agency didn’t exist until the 99 cba. Older rookie contracts were grandfathered in. Do your **** homework before ranting.

1. RFA status might have been "official" circa-1999 but NBA free agency up until the late 80s was essentially endless RFA status for teams since they could continue to match offers made for their players one contract after another; it's part of why there was so little player movement up until the 00s, both due to the stigma surrounding it i.e. how the few stars that did move like Barkley and Shaq were perceived as for doing so (Shaq in particular despite him being lowballed by the Magic before they came out with a serious offer when he brought them to the Finals a year prior) and because it took the player's union a ton to fight for what is considered unrestricted free agency, which began with Tom Chambers. Don't tell me to do my own homework when you don't know what you're talking about regarding the history of free agency.

2. You said "unlike Lowry he didn’t re-sign because the Raptors had by far the highest offer" when Vince literally got the highest possible offer allowed, which is disingenuous. There was no way Toronto was going to give him less than the max offer, and Vince wasn't going to accept less than the max for an extension. More importantly, no other team could have offered him anything because no one else could have offered Vince an extension at the time said extension was made because that is not how extensions/UFAs worked even at the time. He re-signed because the Raptors had the highest offer - and they would continue to have the highest offer due to owning his Bird Rights if were he to enter free agency in 2002.

Yeah, Vince stayed while McGrady left without an extension during that period where rookies could leave due to inherently possessing UFA status after their rookie contract (which if I recall was before rookie scale contracts were designated under the CBA), but I attribute that to the FO not f*cking that up like Orlando did with Shaq, which is one of the few times i'll give that era's FO any sort of credit even if it's the "do your jobs" minimum that was sadly not as common a la the Magic's aforementioned screwing things up with Shaq. He wasn't doing it as some favor to the organization that drafted him a la the aforementioned discount Dirk took, he did it because the alternative was potentially getting injured and losing out on money in free agency which, given Vince already had some history with knee injuries (Back in January of that same year if I recall was the first notable, non-surgery requiring incident), he was obviously going to take.

If anything, all this does is make McGrady look even worse for leaving than he did at the time/for the FO screwing things up when it came to their relationship with Tracy that they bungled a potential McGrady/Carter duo as they entered their primes.

I don’t get why you’re knocking a guy for signing for the max or pretending like those offers wouldn’t have been there a year later from other teams. Vince’s AAV was higher in 2001 than Lowry’s in 2014 nominally speaking. Forget that Lowry signed for less 20% of the cap and no other team came close to offering him a similar deal. And yeah he deserves some credit for not just walking like his cousin did.

Bosh deserves credit for signing an extension as well.

[CazOnReal]

Bosh deserves credit for signing an extension as well.

Literally the biggest extension ever - he's 7 feet tall!

[wegotthabeet]

Bosh deserves credit for signing an extension as well.

Literally the biggest extension ever - he's 7 feet tall!

He was restricted. Signed a 3 year deal and basically already had planned his next move by the time the ink dried. He left as quickly as possible.

[PerfectJab]

Bosh deserves credit for signing an extension as well.

Literally the biggest extension ever - he's 7 feet tall!

He was restricted. Signed a 3 year deal and basically already had planned his next move by the time the ink dried. He left as quickly as possible.

Actually he signed early but would have been unrestricted, it's the same situation as Carter.

Why do you need to hate on Bosh? He gave the Raptors something to cheer about after VC left and is one of the greatest PF in Raptors history. You want to talk about bad teams, his second best player was Anthony Parker yet he carried the team to the playoffs twice! No wonder he wanted to leave, management was terrible but Like Carter it shouldn't take away from his accomplishments. Under his leadership the Raptors had the best team record up to that point and even won an Atlantic Division Championship!

I believe if Carter gets his jersey retired, Bosh deserves to get his as well:

Had 11 allstar seasons vs 8 from Carter despite playing 9 less seasons
Both had 5 allstar seasons as Raptors
Both in HOF
Both played a significant role in Raptors history. They put TORONTO ON THE MAP

[wegotthabeet]

Literally the biggest extension ever - he's 7 feet tall!

He was restricted. Signed a 3 year deal and basically already had planned his next move by the time the ink dried. He left as quickly as possible.

Actually he signed early but would have been unrestricted, it's the same situation as Carter.

Why do you need to hate on Bosh? He gave the Raptors something to cheer about after VC left and is one of the greatest PF in Raptors history. You want to talk about bad teams, his second best player was Anthony Parker yet he carried the team to the playoffs twice! No wonder he wanted to leave, management was terrible but Like Carter it shouldn't take away from his accomplishments. Under his leadership the Raptors had the best team record up to that point and even won an Atlantic Division Championship!

I believe if Carter gets his jersey retired, Bosh deserves to get his as well:

Had 11 allstar seasons vs 8 from Carter despite playing 9 less seasons
Both had 5 allstar seasons as Raptors
Both in HOF
Both played a significant role in Raptors history. They put TORONTO ON THE MAP

no he would not have been unrestricted. he was drafted in 2003. restricted FA started after 1999. Vince & T-Mac were drafted in 1998 & 1997. their rookie contracts were grandfathered into the new CBA.

don't make **** up.