Siakam trade for basically nothing is now showing its effect

[KrazyP]

For a frame of reference - We gave up a higher pick to acquire Poeltl than any pick we got in return for Siakam......

We did not.

Yes, we did.

[bballsparkin]

^^It hasn't happened yet. The Pacers pick techically could be as high as #4 plus similarly in 2026 IIRC while the Spurs pick could become two 2nds. It's possible. Unlikely it unfolds that way though.

[Fairview4Life]

For a frame of reference - We gave up a higher pick to acquire Poeltl than any pick we got in return for Siakam......

We did not.

Yes, we did.

Which pick did we give the Spurs? Which picks did we get from the Pacers?

[KrazyP]

We did not.

Yes, we did.

Which pick did we give the Spurs? Which picks did we get from the Pacers?

Obviously we dont know exactly where the picks will land. Instead of bathing yourself in ambiguity like a politician, let me ask you a simple question ----

Do you think the Spurs would give up the pick they currently own for one of the Pacers picks?

[Fairview4Life]

Yes, we did.

Which pick did we give the Spurs? Which picks did we get from the Pacers?

Obviously we dont know exactly where the picks will land. Instead of bathing yourself in ambiguity, let me ask you a simple question ----

Do you think the Spurs would give up the pick they currently own for one of the Pacers picks?

No. If we stay at 6 or move up, then yes, I think they might. If we are late lotto or in the play in or somehow make the playoffs next year, I think they might wish they had. Hell, if we win the lottery next year, I think they might wish they had, since they'll be looking at 2 2nds instead or whenever the picks convey. If the Pacers 2026 pick is #5, I think they might wish they had.

Not quite so simple a question afterall.

[KrazyP]

Which pick did we give the Spurs? Which picks did we get from the Pacers?

Obviously we dont know exactly where the picks will land. Instead of bathing yourself in ambiguity, let me ask you a simple question ----

Do you think the Spurs would give up the pick they currently own for one of the Pacers picks?

No. If we stay at 6 or move up, then yes, I think they might. If the Pacers 2026 pick is #5, I think they might wish they had.

Not quite so simple a question afterall.

You are dancing around like the politician.

The pick the Spurs own has more value. You are being disingenuous if you think it does not.

[YogurtProducer]

Obviously we dont know exactly where the picks will land. Instead of bathing yourself in ambiguity, let me ask you a simple question ----

Do you think the Spurs would give up the pick they currently own for one of the Pacers picks?

No. If we stay at 6 or move up, then yes, I think they might. If the Pacers 2026 pick is #5, I think they might wish they had.

Not quite so simple a question afterall.

You are dancing around like the politician.

The pick the Spurs own has more value. You are being disingenuous if you think it does not.

Maybe, maybe not. #7 or #17 and a 2026 1st?

Especially when you consider it could end up as a trend pick in 2025 anyways if we stay top 6.

[Fairview4Life]

Obviously we dont know exactly where the picks will land. Instead of bathing yourself in ambiguity, let me ask you a simple question ----

Do you think the Spurs would give up the pick they currently own for one of the Pacers picks?

No. If we stay at 6 or move up, then yes, I think they might. If the Pacers 2026 pick is #5, I think they might wish they had.

Not quite so simple a question afterall.

You are dancing around like the politician.

The pick the Spurs own has more value. You are being disingenuous if you think it does not.

It does right now, yes. It may not post lotto this season. Or in 2025, or in 2026. We have not given them any pick yet and the Pacers haven't given us any pick yet. At the time we traded for Poeltl, did you think the pick was going to be the 7th overall pick in the 2024 draft? What did you think about the Pacers 2026 pick? A pick more than 2 years from now.

The whole point is that at the time we traded for Poeltl we did not give up a great pick. Turns out time makes fools of us all and it's looking like it could be a very good pick this season...or maybe not. We don't know where the Pacers picks will land either.

[KrazyP]

No. If we stay at 6 or move up, then yes, I think they might. If the Pacers 2026 pick is #5, I think they might wish they had.

Not quite so simple a question afterall.

You are dancing around like the politician.

The pick the Spurs own has more value. You are being disingenuous if you think it does not.

Maybe, maybe not. #7 or #17 and a 2026 1st?

Especially when you consider it could end up as a trend pick in 2025 anyways if we stay top 6.

This is a different discussion. The original point was the Poeltl pick is better than any individual pick the Raps got in the Siakam trade.

[Tor_Raps]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

[bballsparkin]

This is a different discussion. The original point was the Poeltl pick is better than any individual pick the Raps got in the Siakam trade.

Most likely.

[bballsparkin]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

What trade option for Pascal was better? I'll wait,...that's right you don't know. Neither do I. I believe it wasn't nearly as big as many of you assumed it to have been. And many are not considering salary. The Pascal trade was a win salary wise in a tight financial market. Potentially. The Poeltl trade I do not like either. Yet lets not forget Birch's final season wasn't dumped. Following the NHL and it's hard cap structure shows the importance of financial flexibility and the cost to acquire it.

[YogurtProducer]

You are dancing around like the politician.

The pick the Spurs own has more value. You are being disingenuous if you think it does not.

Maybe, maybe not. #7 or #17 and a 2026 1st?

Especially when you consider it could end up as a trend pick in 2025 anyways if we stay top 6.

This is a different discussion. The original point was the Poeltl pick is better than any individual pick the Raps got in the Siakam trade.

Good thing the trade wasn’t for one piece. And even then, the Poeltl pick might still end up worse.

You have no idea where our pick will land, and no idea where the 2026 pick will land. It’s just not a factual statement you made

[Tor_Raps]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

What trade option for Pascal was better? I'll wait,...that's right you don't know. Neither do I. I believe it wasn't nearly as big as many of you assumed it to have been. And many are not considering salary. The Pascal trade was a win salary wise in a tight financial market. Potentially. The Poeltl trade I do not like either. Yet lets not forget Birch's final season wasn't dumped. Following the NHL and it's hard cap structure shows the importance of financial flexibility and the cost to acquire it.

Wow, great argument. "It wasn't a bad trade because we aren't privy to what else was out there." Guess you must have loved the Vince Carter trade too for the same reason. Also, that "dumping of Birch's contract" was the same one he gave him lol.

The NBA is a results based industry so it's very easy to know how the Raptors are doing by what we see on the court and what potential assets they have at their disposal for the future. They have dug themselves a massive hole but not one they can't see themselves out of. Let's hope we can keep our pick and Masai works some magic this offseason.

[HangTime]

The only things we know:
we gave the 44th pick last year,
Jakob's contract was a bit of an overpay.
Pascal's contract is going to be huge.


The other picks are TBD

[bballsparkin]

Wow, great argument. "It wasn't a bad trade because we aren't privy to what else was out there." Guess you must have loved the Vince Carter trade too for the same reason. Also, that "dumping of Birch's contract" was the same one he gave him lol.

The NBA is a results based industry so it's very easy to know how the Raptors are doing by what we see on the court and what potential assets they have at their disposal for the future. They have dug themselves a massive hole but not one they can't see themselves out of. Let's hope we can keep our pick and Masai works some magic this offseason.

Siakam was not that valuable. Hate to break it to you. The trade is what you get. They held on to him maximize whatever profits as a result. What trade would you have traded Pascal for? Do tell.

VC was younger, better, they took on salary in a totally different environment, I did not trust their scouting department at all, plus as I recall still had term on his contract. Not comparable at all fyi.

Agreed they dug themselves a hole. They need to get the next moves right.

[RoteSchroder]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

would you trade 3 low-mid 1sts for Bradley Beal? He's on a long term contract, so we don't need to worry about losing him

[Tor_Raps]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

would you trade 3 low-mid 1sts for Bradley Beal? He's on a long term contract, so we don't need to worry about losing him

No because Beals making the supermax and has been injured/performing like crap. Whereas Siakam has been much healthier, performed at a much higher level more recently, won a championship as a proven number 2/3 and would earn less than Beal.

My point wasnt even to not trade Siakam but if you decided you werent going to re-sign him then trade the man asap. Masai held on too long where he had 0 leverage. Youre gonna have to find a better comparable for how Siakam has been performing more recently.

[RoteSchroder]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

would you trade 3 low-mid 1sts for Bradley Beal? He's on a long term contract, so we don't need to worry about losing him

No because Beals making the supermax and has been injured/performing like crap. Whereas Siakam has been much healthier, performed at a much higher level more recently, won a championship as a proven number 2/3 and would earn less than Beal.

My point wasnt even to not trade Siakam but if you decided you werent going to re-sign him then trade the man asap. Masai held on too long where he had 0 leverage. Youre gonna have to find a better comparable for how Siakam has been performing more recently.

Masai didn't like the initial returns being offered for Siakam though

Waiting for better returns is a double-edged sword. Using that same strategy, OG would have been sold for the Siakam package of 3 mid-late 1sts or for Shaedon Sharpe straight up.

Pull the trigger strategy and maybe we end up with: Shaedon Sharpe + Nembhard + 3 mid-late 1sts

Wait it out strategy: RJ Barrett + Quickley + Detroit 2nd + 3 mid-late 1sts

Seems like a similar outcome..and we don't even know if these young players were being offered for Siakam at the time or if they'd still include 3 picks along with a young player.

[Chandan]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

would you trade 3 low-mid 1sts for Bradley Beal? He's on a long term contract, so we don't need to worry about losing him

No because Beals making the supermax and has been injured/performing like crap. Whereas Siakam has been much healthier, performed at a much higher level more recently, won a championship as a proven number 2/3 and would earn less than Beal.

My point wasnt even to not trade Siakam but if you decided you werent going to re-sign him then trade the man asap. Masai held on too long where he had 0 leverage. Youre gonna have to find a better comparable for how Siakam has been performing more recently.

Are you not satisfied with Bruce Brown coming back as the main piece?