Siakam trade for basically nothing is now showing its effect

[HumbleRen]

I for one was saying that from the beginning.

If Barnes explodes to what we hope he does we immediately are back in the market looking for a Siakam-esque player. I understand the ages and shifting of timelines thing, but getting guys of Siakam / Barnes caliber is extremely hard.

I think we’re looking more for an OG caliber player rather than Siakam.

Lol then we’ll really be capped as a 6th place team. At best.

Probably is the case but atleast we’ll have flexibility to go star hunting.

Paying a 5 year max to a player that isn’t valued as an all nba caliber player around the league isn’t the wisest choice. Especially when him being on the team doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed a playoff seed.

[YogurtProducer]

What’s the alternative? We’re currently looking for somebody to fill the hole left by Siakam. But we already had him.

You’re thinking we can find somebody better than Siakam is what you’re saying. That’s gonna be tough.

I for one was saying that from the beginning.

If Barnes explodes to what we hope he does we immediately are back in the market looking for a Siakam-esque player. I understand the ages and shifting of timelines thing, but getting guys of Siakam / Barnes caliber is extremely hard.

I think we’re looking more for an OG caliber player rather than Siakam.

Nope. We are looking for a guy you can rely on to score

[YogurtProducer]

Like if the alternative was taking the deal we got for him, of course I would have kept Siakam. I always maintained to re-sign him and then look to trade him when you're in a position of strength later if needed. Clearly it was needed lol.

It's obvious Masai wanted no part of maxing him and apparently told him that. Of course we can debate whether he waited too long. I was ranting for months about going into the season with 3 of your top 6 as UFAs and look what happened. I hope GT Sr. spills the beans again on if that made things awkward/tense/weird in the locker room.

But NOT paying him 250M is part of the return on that deal, and is absolutely the right call. Like Humble Ren already pointed out, we would have been close to the tax for a team going nowhere.

Does Siakam have the counting stats, and can point to comparables, to warrant a max deal? Yes.
Will that max deal handcuff your team in building a contender? Also yes (IMO).

I know I'm alone here but I wouldn't rule out Indy's pick in 2026 potentially being good. They are not a destination market, their owner won't go into the tax, and Haliburton is on that OG trajectory for injuries. His games played leaves a lot to be desired, and he would/should have missed more games this season if we are to believe everyone that's making excuses for Indy. They're also about to have 90-100M locked up in 2 players where we know firsthand one of them cannot be a true #1, and the jury is still out on the other.

This I just cant buy into. They are objectively a better team with Siakam than without, I mean ****, they added him for literally nothing lol. So, barring any crazy injuries to Hali, I don't see how they end up worse than this year. So if posted here, hey, I'll give you 2, 19th picks, and a 28th for Siakam, they would get laughed off this board. Yet it is very likely that is what it ends up as.

I think Siakam as the first option could take that same team to the play in if Hali was out all year, and a punchers chance to get into the playoffs. So I can't see how we end up getting a better pick in 2026......unless he decides to go to Philly, then I will laugh lol.

2026 is two years. Lot of **** can happen in 2 years. I don’t think it’ll happen but Siakam would be 30 something and in theory could fall off a bit. Halliburton we will see if he is more like early year Hali or if right now is closer to his ceiling.

But either way - if we think Siakam is so good that he gonna single handed keep Indiana competitive in 2026 we should’ve just kept him.

[HumbleRen]

I for one was saying that from the beginning.

If Barnes explodes to what we hope he does we immediately are back in the market looking for a Siakam-esque player. I understand the ages and shifting of timelines thing, but getting guys of Siakam / Barnes caliber is extremely hard.

I think we’re looking more for an OG caliber player rather than Siakam.

Nope. We are looking for a guy you can rely on to score

Meh. I think we’re more focused on being a good defensive team first.

Having a go to scorer would be lovely but I think Masai has higher aspirations than making a non top 20 player that guy.

[Merit]

It's really a simple concept. The idea was to bring the team back. They brought Jak in because he was part of that bench mob and was familiar with the team and players. He is also Pascal's good friend, which would help in re-signing him. The logic is sound.

What was unexpected was Fred leaving. That's what screwed everything up.

PG Fred/(? with MLE - likely Dennis anyway)
SG OG/Gary
SF Scottie/Gradey
PF Pascal/Boucher
C Poeltl/(Koloko - before his respiratory injury)

Looks like a solid group with depth and youth. Based on statistical projections, that team would have been in the playoffs for sure, and we would've been happy to lose our pick in a trash draft, given the trajectory of the team and its future FAs. The aim here would be to maximize Scottie's rookie scale contract to stay under the cap for a year and then re-boot this offseason, ideally with both OG and Pascal re-signing as well.

FVV is not the difference between this team winning and losing, come on. If he couldn't make a difference last year, then why would he do so this year? And if he was so invaluable, they could've given him a 4-year max with a cherry on top - but they didn't because that would've been insane.

You can't have it both ways, the FO screwed up.

The rumour at the time was Harden returning to Houston. When Udoka nixed that and they gave Fred a godfather offer that’s when things changed.

That possibility was something they would’ve planned for, but not one that was highly likely in their eyes, considering they literally said they wanted to bring Fed back.

You’re completely missing that the year before they didn’t have Poeltl. It’s the combo of Fred/OG/Scottie/Pascal/Poeltl that was being given a shot had Fred chosen to return.

Fred’s not coming back is literally the difference between staying the path and choosing to pivot to a tank.

[Chandan]

It's really a simple concept. The idea was to bring the team back. They brought Jak in because he was part of that bench mob and was familiar with the team and players. He is also Pascal's good friend, which would help in re-signing him. The logic is sound.

What was unexpected was Fred leaving. That's what screwed everything up.

PG Fred/(? with MLE - likely Dennis anyway)
SG OG/Gary
SF Scottie/Gradey
PF Pascal/Boucher
C Poeltl/(Koloko - before his respiratory injury)

Looks like a solid group with depth and youth. Based on statistical projections, that team would have been in the playoffs for sure, and we would've been happy to lose our pick in a trash draft, given the trajectory of the team and its future FAs. The aim here would be to maximize Scottie's rookie scale contract to stay under the cap for a year and then re-boot this offseason, ideally with both OG and Pascal re-signing as well.

FVV is not the difference between this team winning and losing, come on. If he couldn't make a difference last year, then why would he do so this year? And if he was so invaluable, they could've given him a 4-year max with a cherry on top - but they didn't because that would've been insane.

You can't have it both ways, the FO screwed up.

The rumour at the time was Harden returning to Houston. When Udoka nixed that and they gave Fred a godfather offer that’s when things changed.

That possibility was something they would’ve planned for, but not one that was highly likely in their eyes, considering they literally said they wanted to bring Fed back.

“You’ve got to have some type of foresight and vision,” the now Houston Rockets guard said here Wednesday night. “You can feel it. You could see it. You’ve got to be able to kind of look ahead and think ahead.

“It’s not like I absolutely knew, but you could sense it. Up to the point where it was like, ‘Okay, do I just sign the (new Toronto) deal knowing that I’m not going to make it through this deal to come back or do I have another situation?’



the writing was on the wall. They were going to hand the franchise to Scottie and I doubt Fred wanted any part of that. Should have seen it coming and just traded him the year prior if that's the route they were going towards.

[KrazyP]

At the time of the trades, was that true? Will it be true after the lottery? Will it be true in 2026? You’re right, this shouldn’t be so hard to understand.

Yes, at the time of the trades it was true.
Will it be true after the lottery? Most likely.
Will it be true in 2026? Probably.

Raps were a middling .500 team last year with multiple question marks.

Pacers are a young team on the rise with a good cap situation to boot.

No rational person would bet on an indivdiual Pacers pick being better than the Raptors pick given their current situations or situations at the time the trades were made.

At the time the Raps traded for Poeltl they were a "middling" .500 team that had won 48 game the season before with the ROY. One of their question marks was C, and that ROY was in the midst of a sophomore slump. There wasn't a reason to think it was probable the pick this season would be mid lotto. Turns out Fred was important. The Pacers traded for Pascal when they were a "middling" play in team with Haliburton recently having been injured. They had the ~21st pick at the time but there was a big group of ~10 teams all with 21-23 wins.

They have a good cap situation until they sign Haliburton to the supermax and pay Pascal 40 million/year and then they have to deal with Turner in a year. Not so sure he's going to be willing to sign another 20M/year short term deal. They have been a "young team on the rise with a good cap situation" as recently as 3 years ago. The NBA doesn't work like stonks.

Again - No rational person would bet on an indivdiual Pacers pick being better than the Raptors pick given their current situations or situations at the time the trades were made.

At the time of the Poeltl trade, the Raps were 26-31 (.456) with no clear direction, multiple holes on the roster and a payroll flirting with the luxury tax.

At the time of the Siakam trade, the Pacers were 23-17 (.575), with a balanced lineup of young talent and a good cap situation.

One team above is in an obviously better situation than the other but you can continue to believe whatever you want to believe.

[disoblige]

Pascal is almost 30yrs old. Not sure why people expect a huge return from him as an expiring. Any GM should be fired if they traded their future for him.

[ArthurVandelay]

For this season, I think FVV is still ahead of him but the gap isn't huge and the timeline (and hopefully $) works better.

I don't see IQ being the same type of leader. He just seems like a nice go-with-the-flow kinda dude. FVV is more like a coach on the floor who will call guys out. That type of leadership is really missed. IQ can probably average the same amount of points and assists easily, but he hasn't shown he can lead.

Also, I was not impressed with his defense. FVV is nearly a NBA Defensive Second Team, and IQ just doesn't look like that type of player. It is why a lot of people say we need a point of attack defender with IQ because he just can't guard guys like Brunson well. He seems to thrive more as an off-ball defender where he can use his length and speed to get deflections/steals.

I think that’s more so to do with Darko’s coaching rather than IQ. That being said, I doubt IQ will ever be as good as prime FVV in regards to on ball defence.

Even OG, Poeltl and Siakam looked pretty mediocre on defence during that first half of the season. I think whatever defensive system that we have makes our guys look much worse on that end.

I think it is because guys mailed it in

OG and Siakam had one foot out the door and their play showed it

Poeltl woke up after the trades…then was injured.

[ArthurVandelay]

It's obvious Masai wanted no part of maxing him and apparently told him that. Of course we can debate whether he waited too long. I was ranting for months about going into the season with 3 of your top 6 as UFAs and look what happened. I hope GT Sr. spills the beans again on if that made things awkward/tense/weird in the locker room.

But NOT paying him 250M is part of the return on that deal, and is absolutely the right call. Like Humble Ren already pointed out, we would have been close to the tax for a team going nowhere.

Does Siakam have the counting stats, and can point to comparables, to warrant a max deal? Yes.
Will that max deal handcuff your team in building a contender? Also yes (IMO).

I know I'm alone here but I wouldn't rule out Indy's pick in 2026 potentially being good. They are not a destination market, their owner won't go into the tax, and Haliburton is on that OG trajectory for injuries. His games played leaves a lot to be desired, and he would/should have missed more games this season if we are to believe everyone that's making excuses for Indy. They're also about to have 90-100M locked up in 2 players where we know firsthand one of them cannot be a true #1, and the jury is still out on the other.

This I just cant buy into. They are objectively a better team with Siakam than without, I mean ****, they added him for literally nothing lol. So, barring any crazy injuries to Hali, I don't see how they end up worse than this year. So if posted here, hey, I'll give you 2, 19th picks, and a 28th for Siakam, they would get laughed off this board. Yet it is very likely that is what it ends up as.

I think Siakam as the first option could take that same team to the play in if Hali was out all year, and a punchers chance to get into the playoffs. So I can't see how we end up getting a better pick in 2026......unless he decides to go to Philly, then I will laugh lol.

2026 is two years. Lot of **** can happen in 2 years. I don’t think it’ll happen but Siakam would be 30 something and in theory could fall off a bit. Halliburton we will see if he is more like early year Hali or if right now is closer to his ceiling.

But either way - if we think Siakam is so good that he gonna single handed keep Indiana competitive in 2026 we should’ve just kept him.

I’m not convinced Haliburton can make it through a season healthy.

[Merit]

FVV is not the difference between this team winning and losing, come on. If he couldn't make a difference last year, then why would he do so this year? And if he was so invaluable, they could've given him a 4-year max with a cherry on top - but they didn't because that would've been insane.

You can't have it both ways, the FO screwed up.

The rumour at the time was Harden returning to Houston. When Udoka nixed that and they gave Fred a godfather offer that’s when things changed.

That possibility was something they would’ve planned for, but not one that was highly likely in their eyes, considering they literally said they wanted to bring Fed back.

“You’ve got to have some type of foresight and vision,” the now Houston Rockets guard said here Wednesday night. “You can feel it. You could see it. You’ve got to be able to kind of look ahead and think ahead.

“It’s not like I absolutely knew, but you could sense it. Up to the point where it was like, ‘Okay, do I just sign the (new Toronto) deal knowing that I’m not going to make it through this deal to come back or do I have another situation?’



the writing was on the wall. They were going to hand the franchise to Scottie and I doubt Fred wanted any part of that. Should have seen it coming and just traded him the year prior if that's the route they were going towards.

Of course they were handing the reins to Scottie. What do you want Fred to say? “I wasn’t going to get my touches and they didn’t bring back the coach I wanted.” That’s the real reason IMO. And the $$ obviously.

He has not one bad thing to say about his time here or the FO. He just chose the money and someplace new. He said this after signing with them, not before.

[brownbobcat]

You’re completely missing that the year before they didn’t have Poeltl. It’s the combo of Fred/OG/Scottie/Pascal/Poeltl that was being given a shot had Fred chosen to return.

Fred’s not coming back is literally the difference between staying the path and choosing to pivot to a tank.

And that would've been a massive disaster. This team was 12-20 when they pulled the trigger on the OG trade. With FVV, you're talking about a .500 team at best, and now with a maxed out FVV. Then what were they supposed to do with Siakam and OG this offseason, max them out too?

Of course they were handing the reins to Scottie. What do you want Fred to say? “I wasn’t going to get my touches and they didn’t bring back the coach I wanted.” That’s the real reason IMO. And the $$ obviously.

He has not one bad thing to say about his time here or the FO. He just chose the money and someplace new. He said this after signing with them, not before.

And if it was obvious to FVV (and everybody else), it should have been obvious to Masai. The $ was surprising, but him leaving was easily - EASILY - foreseeable.

[YogurtProducer]

You’re completely missing that the year before they didn’t have Poeltl. It’s the combo of Fred/OG/Scottie/Pascal/Poeltl that was being given a shot had Fred chosen to return.

Fred’s not coming back is literally the difference between staying the path and choosing to pivot to a tank.

And that would've been a massive disaster. This team was 12-20 when they pulled the trigger on the OG trade. With FVV, you're talking about a .500 team at best, and now with a maxed out FVV. Then what were they supposed to do with Siakam and OG this offseason, max them out too?

A big reason you seemingly overlook is that the team was 12-20 partially due to Masai pivoting in the direction of the team and OG/Siakam having half a foot out the door as a result.

If FVV is retained it likely means Siakam is locked up this past summer, and who knows what happens with OG (maybe the IQ/RJ trade still happens anyways).

Going into a season with a team whose goal is to win is a lot different than going into a season where the entire FO and coaching staff is talking about "development" and making Scottie to face of the team. That probably does not happen if FVV is kept around.

[OakleyDokely]

Hali is getting a supermax. Siakam is getting close to 50 mill a year. Turner will want more when he's up. They have a bunch of good but not great guys on rookie deals who will be looking for big extensions. This is their team going forward once everyone is paid. While it's a solid core, it's not elite. The 2016 pick could be in the teens as well, and if something happens to Hali, it could be a lot higher.

With most contenders you deal with, the likelihood is that you're getting picks in the mid to high 20s back. I think there's more potential with the Indy pick.

[YogurtProducer]

At the time of the Siakam trade, the Pacers were 23-17 (.575), with a balanced lineup of young talent and a good cap situation.

Good cap situation?

About to have 110M locked into Hali/Turner/Siakam/Nesmith, with Obi/Smith hitting FA, and Mathurin/Nembhard/Jackson needing extensions in the next 2 years, and 1 first in the next 3 drafts.

It is not bad, but it certainly not good.

[brownbobcat]

You’re completely missing that the year before they didn’t have Poeltl. It’s the combo of Fred/OG/Scottie/Pascal/Poeltl that was being given a shot had Fred chosen to return.

Fred’s not coming back is literally the difference between staying the path and choosing to pivot to a tank.

And that would've been a massive disaster. This team was 12-20 when they pulled the trigger on the OG trade. With FVV, you're talking about a .500 team at best, and now with a maxed out FVV. Then what were they supposed to do with Siakam and OG this offseason, max them out too?

A big reason you seemingly overlook is that the team was 12-20 partially due to Masai pivoting in the direction of the team and OG/Siakam having half a foot out the door as a result.

If FVV is retained it likely means Siakam is locked up this past summer, and who knows what happens with OG (maybe the IQ/RJ trade still happens anyways).

Going into a season with a team whose goal is to win is a lot different than going into a season where the entire FO and coaching staff is talking about "development" and making Scottie to face of the team. That probably does not happen if FVV is kept around.

Yeah, you convinced me - the same team that crawled into the play-in and got embarrassed by a 9yr old girl was going to suddenly become a powerhouse if only FVV stayed and they changed out the coaching staff. All those accusations of selfishness would've disappeared and - wait, doesn't that mean the FO messed up by not maxing out FVV and Siakam?

[Duffman100]

At the time of the Siakam trade, the Pacers were 23-17 (.575), with a balanced lineup of young talent and a good cap situation.

Good cap situation?

About to have 110M locked into Hali/Turner/Siakam/Nesmith, with Obi/Smith hitting FA, and Mathurin/Nembhard/Jackson needing extensions in the next 2 years, and 1 first in the next 3 drafts.

It is not bad, but it certainly not good.

You have to be really hopeful that Tyrese is your number 1.

[brownbobcat]

At the time of the Siakam trade, the Pacers were 23-17 (.575), with a balanced lineup of young talent and a good cap situation.

Good cap situation?

About to have 110M locked into Hali/Turner/Siakam/Nesmith, with Obi/Smith hitting FA, and Mathurin/Nembhard/Jackson needing extensions in the next 2 years, and 1 first in the next 3 drafts.

It is not bad, but it certainly not good.

You have to be really hopeful that Tyrese is your number 1.

He had a bad 2nd half after the injury, but otherwise he's as good as any other non-generational young player (i.e. Luka & Wemby).

[Duffman100]

Good cap situation?

About to have 110M locked into Hali/Turner/Siakam/Nesmith, with Obi/Smith hitting FA, and Mathurin/Nembhard/Jackson needing extensions in the next 2 years, and 1 first in the next 3 drafts.

It is not bad, but it certainly not good.

You have to be really hopeful that Tyrese is your number 1.

He had a bad 2nd half after the injury, but otherwise he's as good as any other non-generational young player (i.e. Luka & Wemby).

Oh for sure think he's great. But you just never know until it gets to crunch time in the playoffs. Who is going to be that guy that steps up

[Los_29]

And that would've been a massive disaster. This team was 12-20 when they pulled the trigger on the OG trade. With FVV, you're talking about a .500 team at best, and now with a maxed out FVV. Then what were they supposed to do with Siakam and OG this offseason, max them out too?

A big reason you seemingly overlook is that the team was 12-20 partially due to Masai pivoting in the direction of the team and OG/Siakam having half a foot out the door as a result.

If FVV is retained it likely means Siakam is locked up this past summer, and who knows what happens with OG (maybe the IQ/RJ trade still happens anyways).

Going into a season with a team whose goal is to win is a lot different than going into a season where the entire FO and coaching staff is talking about "development" and making Scottie to face of the team. That probably does not happen if FVV is kept around.

Yeah, you convinced me - the same team that crawled into the play-in and got embarrassed by a 9yr old girl was going to suddenly become a powerhouse if only FVV stayed and they changed out the coaching staff. All those accusations of selfishness would've disappeared and - wait, doesn't that mean the FO messed up by not maxing out FVV and Siakam?

I think they were 16-12 with Poeltl last year. Not a championship squad obviously but still a decent team especially with a 21 year old Scottie who has a lot of untapped potential. Once they lost Fred, that was it though because the team wasn’t going anywhere with Dennis Schroder.