Siakam trade for basically nothing is now showing its effect

[YogurtProducer]

would you trade 3 low-mid 1sts for Bradley Beal? He's on a long term contract, so we don't need to worry about losing him

No because Beals making the supermax and has been injured/performing like crap. Whereas Siakam has been much healthier, performed at a much higher level more recently, won a championship as a proven number 2/3 and would earn less than Beal.

My point wasnt even to not trade Siakam but if you decided you werent going to re-sign him then trade the man asap. Masai held on too long where he had 0 leverage. Youre gonna have to find a better comparable for how Siakam has been performing more recently.

Are you not satisfied with Bruce Brown coming back as the main piece?

Bruce was the main piece?

[Coco Costanza]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

What trade option for Pascal was better? I'll wait,...that's right you don't know.

I thought you said you were going to wait?

[RoteSchroder]

No because Beals making the supermax and has been injured/performing like crap. Whereas Siakam has been much healthier, performed at a much higher level more recently, won a championship as a proven number 2/3 and would earn less than Beal.

My point wasnt even to not trade Siakam but if you decided you werent going to re-sign him then trade the man asap. Masai held on too long where he had 0 leverage. Youre gonna have to find a better comparable for how Siakam has been performing more recently.

Are you not satisfied with Bruce Brown coming back as the main piece?

Bruce was the main piece?

Chandan's a big Bruce Brown fan, dude was really excited at the time of the trade. He kept talking about how Brown was a key player for the Nugget's championship run.

[Chandan]

Are you not satisfied with Bruce Brown coming back as the main piece?

Bruce was the main piece?

Chandan's a big Bruce Brown fan, dude was really excited at the time of the trade. He kept talking about how Brown was a key player for the Nugget's championship run.

You can see my excitement seeping through (NOT) in this thread: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2349286&start=40. Interesting to relive it. One thing team mediocre should enjoy is that most of the people replying in that thread nolonger posts.

It was hard to get excited about the late FRPs when I was told whoever we draft wont be as good as Poeltl anyway.

[RoteSchroder]

Bruce was the main piece?

Chandan's a big Bruce Brown fan, dude was really excited at the time of the trade. He kept talking about how Brown was a key player for the Nugget's championship run.

You can see my excitement seeping through (NOT) in this thread: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2349286&start=40. Interesting to relive it. One thing team mediocre should enjoy is that most of the people replying in that thread nolonger posts.

It was hard to get excited about the late FRPs when I was told whoever we draft wont be as good as Poeltl anyway.

Look on page 69:

after watching some highlights, I'm stoked we got Bruce Brown!! He's way better than the three 1st round picks combined and should be considered the main piece of this trade. Brown was a key player in the Nugget's championship run. I can see us making the play-in and ending up in the finals with Brown!

[PoundTown]

Bruce brown was a key piece, and 6th best player for the nuggs last run. And he was also solid as a starter for the pacers. But he’s been hot garbage for us.

I thought the raps could have at least gotten nembhard. No way did I think we wouldn’t have received a single young player from the pacers, so the trade is a little disappointing that way.

[Chandan]

Chandan's a big Bruce Brown fan, dude was really excited at the time of the trade. He kept talking about how Brown was a key player for the Nugget's championship run.

You can see my excitement seeping through (NOT) in this thread: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2349286&start=40. Interesting to relive it. One thing team mediocre should enjoy is that most of the people replying in that thread nolonger posts.

It was hard to get excited about the late FRPs when I was told whoever we draft wont be as good as Poeltl anyway.

Look on page 69:

after watching some highlights, I'm stoked we got Bruce Brown!! He's way better than the three 1st round picks combined and should be considered the main piece of this trade. Brown was a key player in the Nugget's championship run. I can see us making the play-in and ending up in the finals with Brown!

You're right! I TOTALLY went to Brown town!
We traded a lottery pick for a top 10 championship level center, of course a championship level guard > 3 mid 20s pick.

[RoteSchroder]

You can see my excitement seeping through (NOT) in this thread: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2349286&start=40. Interesting to relive it. One thing team mediocre should enjoy is that most of the people replying in that thread nolonger posts.

It was hard to get excited about the late FRPs when I was told whoever we draft wont be as good as Poeltl anyway.

Look on page 69:

after watching some highlights, I'm stoked we got Bruce Brown!! He's way better than the three 1st round picks combined and should be considered the main piece of this trade. Brown was a key player in the Nugget's championship run. I can see us making the play-in and ending up in the finals with Brown!

You're right! I TOTALLY went to Brown town!
We traded a lottery pick for a top 10 championship level center, of course a championship level guard > 3 mid 20s pick.

Look at the post above yours. You used your burner account to defend your position. Look at the timing, lmao:

Bruce brown was a key piece, and 6th best player for the nuggs last run. And he was also solid as a starter for the pacers. But he’s been hot garbage for us.

Are you denying that you said this:

Are you not satisfied with Bruce Brown coming back as the main piece?

it's only a few posts back. So you wouldn't trade Bruce Brown for three 1st rounders, lmao

That's 3 posts where you're hyping up Bruce Brown now

[Chandan]

Look on page 69:

You're right! I TOTALLY went to Brown town!
We traded a lottery pick for a top 10 championship level center, of course a championship level guard > 3 mid 20s pick.

Look at the post above yours. You used your burner account to defend your position. Look at the timing, lmao:

Bruce brown was a key piece, and 6th best player for the nuggs last run. And he was also solid as a starter for the pacers. But he’s been hot garbage for us.

Are you denying that you said this:

Are you not satisfied with Bruce Brown coming back as the main piece?

it's only a few posts back. So you wouldn't trade Bruce Brown for three 1st rounders, lmao

That's 3 posts where you're hyping up Bruce Brown now

You need to understand winning culture and championship pedigree. If someone like Yakob is a championship level center despite never having sniffed the finals and has been on losing teams for like 80% of his career, then Bruce Brown is a bonafide certified championship caliber WINNER. If Yakob is worth a lottery pick, then how is Brown not worth more than 3 mid FRPs? these 3 picks are unlikely to produce better players than Brown, Masai will probably get a draft a bunch of ochai or banton level players who will never contribute to winning.

[Scase]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

What trade option for Pascal was better? I'll wait,...that's right you don't know. Neither do I. I believe it wasn't nearly as big as many of you assumed it to have been. And many are not considering salary. The Pascal trade was a win salary wise in a tight financial market. Potentially. The Poeltl trade I do not like either. Yet lets not forget Birch's final season wasn't dumped. Following the NHL and it's hard cap structure shows the importance of financial flexibility and the cost to acquire it.

Don't put yourself in quite literally the worst bargaining position possible, and maybe you extract more value. Wild concept. Keep dealing from a position of disadvantage, and yeah even the rumoured trades will look bad.

I agree that Siakams value was greatly overstated by a lot of fans, but suggesting that what we got for him was ok, because it was the best possible return is nonsense, when the reason it was such a bad return was due to poor management.

I've said it before and I will say it again, Masai was either wrong building a team with Siakam being "the guy" for 4 years, or Siakam had value and he ruined it and was stuck with a bad trade return. No matter which way you look at it, he **** up royally.

[Chandan]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

What trade option for Pascal was better? I'll wait,...that's right you don't know. Neither do I. I believe it wasn't nearly as big as many of you assumed it to have been. And many are not considering salary. The Pascal trade was a win salary wise in a tight financial market. Potentially. The Poeltl trade I do not like either. Yet lets not forget Birch's final season wasn't dumped. Following the NHL and it's hard cap structure shows the importance of financial flexibility and the cost to acquire it.

Don't put yourself in quite literally the worst bargaining position possible, and maybe you extract more value. Wild concept. Keep dealing from a position of disadvantage, and yeah even the rumoured trades will look bad.

I agree that Siakams value was greatly overstated by a lot of fans, but suggesting that what we got for him was ok, because it was the best possible return is nonsense, when the reason it was such a bad return was due to poor management.

I've said it before and I will say it again, Masai was either wrong building a team with Siakam being "the guy" for 4 years, or Siakam had value and he ruined it and was stuck with a bad trade return. No matter which way you look at it, he **** up royally.

What if i choose neither? I can blame Canada? Ed Rogers? COVID? Masai being too HUMAN? Championship fatigue? Al Horford clotheslining TJ Ford? GARBO freak leg injury? you are just whining for being too negative!

[Scase]

What trade option for Pascal was better? I'll wait,...that's right you don't know. Neither do I. I believe it wasn't nearly as big as many of you assumed it to have been. And many are not considering salary. The Pascal trade was a win salary wise in a tight financial market. Potentially. The Poeltl trade I do not like either. Yet lets not forget Birch's final season wasn't dumped. Following the NHL and it's hard cap structure shows the importance of financial flexibility and the cost to acquire it.

Don't put yourself in quite literally the worst bargaining position possible, and maybe you extract more value. Wild concept. Keep dealing from a position of disadvantage, and yeah even the rumoured trades will look bad.

I agree that Siakams value was greatly overstated by a lot of fans, but suggesting that what we got for him was ok, because it was the best possible return is nonsense, when the reason it was such a bad return was due to poor management.

I've said it before and I will say it again, Masai was either wrong building a team with Siakam being "the guy" for 4 years, or Siakam had value and he ruined it and was stuck with a bad trade return. No matter which way you look at it, he **** up royally.

What if i choose neither? I can blame Canada? Ed Rogers? COVID? Masai being too HUMAN? Championship fatigue? Al Horford clotheslining TJ Ford? GARBO freak leg injury? you are just whining for being too negative!

Definitely Ed Rogers fault, no doubt about it. I heard that he said if Masai tried to tank he would kill him in the streets, it's why we won't tank, it's 100% MLSEs fault.

[RoteSchroder]

You need to understand winning culture and championship pedigree. If someone like Yakob is a championship level center despite never having sniffed the finals and has been on losing teams for like 80% of his career, then Bruce Brown is a bonafide certified championship caliber WINNER. If Yakob is worth a lottery pick, then how is Brown not worth more than 3 mid FRPs? these 3 picks are unlikely to produce better players than Brown, Masai will probably get a draft a bunch of ochai or banton level players who will never contribute to winning.

Suggest a better executive we can realistically hire to run the FO. If you have zero suggestions, then there's no point in the incessant whining and stupid takes is there?

LOL at criticizing Masai's drafting ability. Even with some misses and stupid decisions, I'd rather have Masai drafting than most other GM's in the league. Definitely would not want someone like you making draft decisions

The rebuild started a year late. Lost FVV for nothing. We gave up a #7 2024 or a ? 2025 pick to the Spurs for a mid-level role player in Poeltl. Siakam was traded for 3 mid-late 1sts, which was probably what was offered the year prior. But using the same strategy, we hit a homerun trade with OG by waiting and staying patient.

You win some, you lose some. As it is, we've rebuilt better and faster than several rebuilding teams out there. Learn to live with some disappointment.

[Chandan]

You need to understand winning culture and championship pedigree. If someone like Yakob is a championship level center despite never having sniffed the finals and has been on losing teams for like 80% of his career, then Bruce Brown is a bonafide certified championship caliber WINNER. If Yakob is worth a lottery pick, then how is Brown not worth more than 3 mid FRPs? these 3 picks are unlikely to produce better players than Brown, Masai will probably get a draft a bunch of ochai or banton level players who will never contribute to winning.

Suggest a better executive we can realistically hire to run the FO. If you have zero suggestions, then there's no point in the incessant whining and stupid takes is there?

LOL at criticizing Masai's drafting ability. Even with some misses and stupid decisions, I'd rather have Masai drafting than most other GM's in the league. Definitely would not want someone like you making draft decisions

The rebuild started a year late. Lost FVV for nothing. We gave up a #7 2024 or a ? 2025 pick to the Spurs for a mid-level role player in Poeltl. Siakam was traded for 3 mid-late 1sts, which was probably what was offered the year prior. But using the same strategy, we hit a homerun trade with OG by waiting and staying patient.

You win some, you lose some. As it is, we've rebuilt better and faster than several rebuilding teams out there. Learn to live with some disappointment.

What about Bruce Brown ties into any of this? Look at my post at page 52. I've already said Masai is the greatest.

[RoteSchroder]

You need to understand winning culture and championship pedigree. If someone like Yakob is a championship level center despite never having sniffed the finals and has been on losing teams for like 80% of his career, then Bruce Brown is a bonafide certified championship caliber WINNER. If Yakob is worth a lottery pick, then how is Brown not worth more than 3 mid FRPs? these 3 picks are unlikely to produce better players than Brown, Masai will probably get a draft a bunch of ochai or banton level players who will never contribute to winning.

Suggest a better executive we can realistically hire to run the FO. If you have zero suggestions, then there's no point in the incessant whining and stupid takes is there?

LOL at criticizing Masai's drafting ability. Even with some misses and stupid decisions, I'd rather have Masai drafting than most other GM's in the league. Definitely would not want someone like you making draft decisions

The rebuild started a year late. Lost FVV for nothing. We gave up a #7 2024 or a ? 2025 pick to the Spurs for a mid-level role player in Poeltl. Siakam was traded for 3 mid-late 1sts, which was probably what was offered the year prior. But using the same strategy, we hit a homerun trade with OG by waiting and staying patient.

You win some, you lose some. As it is, we've rebuilt better and faster than several rebuilding teams out there. Learn to live with some disappointment.

What about Bruce Brown ties into any of this? Look at my post at page 52. I've already said Masai is the greatest.

Just pointing out how lame the whining is. Karen's tend to not realize they're Karen's.

[ArthurVandelay]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

Who’s the all-star? Is it Lavine? Or a 30 year old fringe all-star starting a max deal, like Siakam? How about Beal?

Because if it is an all-star of that caliber, I’d rather patiently stick it out with the current squad.

[ArthurVandelay]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

would you trade 3 low-mid 1sts for Bradley Beal? He's on a long term contract, so we don't need to worry about losing him

No because Beals making the supermax and has been injured/performing like crap. Whereas Siakam has been much healthier, performed at a much higher level more recently, won a championship as a proven number 2/3 and would earn less than Beal.

My point wasnt even to not trade Siakam but if you decided you werent going to re-sign him then trade the man asap. Masai held on too long where he had 0 leverage. Youre gonna have to find a better comparable for how Siakam has been performing more recently.

Or maybe he traded him a year later for roughly the same package/value?

Trade discussions tend to get leaked after deals are made. I saw no report of the Raptors taking a loss on Siakam return by waiting.

Last year Mathurin or the #7 were not on the table for Siakam from Indiana. It was late 20s picks and future picks. And let’s not forget Siakam did the Raptors no favours in trade talks with other teams. He wasn’t committing to anyone other than Indiana.

[OakleyDokely]

I was obviously using an exaggerated argument to make a point.

When a deal is made for future picks - you have to evaluate based on expected value which you can ascertain from years and years of draft history. The average mid 1st round pick over the last 20 years roughly equals Delon Wright. The average late 1st rounder is a scrub. In general, mid to late 1st rounders DO NOT have that much value especially in drafts considered 'weak'.

The return on the Siakam trade was poor because management backed themselves into a corner and lost all leverage.

Nobody was ever going to give up a top prospect or top pick for him. People's expectations were just unrealistic.

Who were all these great young players the Raps turned down? Teams aren't lining up to give you their young future star for Siakam.

Things like age and salary matter. A soon to be 30 year old who will command 45-50 million a season just isn't the huge asset many people think he is, even if they traded him last year.

If the Raps were trading for Siakam, would you offer Barnes? Or would you offer what every other team offered, a bunch of middle tier prospects and picks?

As fans, we obviously aren't privy to private trade conversations that happen across the league. We can only judge results. The result here is that we ended up trading an all-star level player in his prime for a package of middling picks, 2 of which are from a draft in which picks have been traded around like candy because it is universally percieved as weak.

Nobody here is claiming we should have gotten a Barnes level prospect in return. That said, you would think the package should have included at least a mid-tier lotto pick OR simply a starting level prospect like Kuminga, Mathurin, JJohnson or eqiuvalent. If you had dealt him at last years draft, it is way more likely the Pacers #7 or a lotto pick from another team could have been in play.

For a frame of reference - We gave up a higher pick to acquire Poeltl than any pick we got in return for Siakam......fans that are happy with the Siakam return should be extremely dissapointed with the Poeltl trade or vice versa....you cant really have it both ways.

The argument that Siakam's trade value was depressed because he's looking for a contract is fair but its not enough to justify moving him for a package that is essentially fodder and will require a significant degree of random luck to turn into anything close to needle moving.

Shams already reported that the Pacers never offered one of their better young players. Nor did Atlanta ever offer JJ. They wouldn't even put Bufkin in a trade. The deal reported involved Griffin, a lower tier prospect.

These young players you're naming were just based on hope, not actual facts.

[bluerap23]

Chandan's a big Bruce Brown fan, dude was really excited at the time of the trade. He kept talking about how Brown was a key player for the Nugget's championship run.

You can see my excitement seeping through (NOT) in this thread: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2349286&start=40. Interesting to relive it. One thing team mediocre should enjoy is that most of the people replying in that thread nolonger posts.

It was hard to get excited about the late FRPs when I was told whoever we draft wont be as good as Poeltl anyway.

Look on page 69:

after watching some highlights, I'm stoked we got Bruce Brown!! He's way better than the three 1st round picks combined and should be considered the main piece of this trade. Brown was a key player in the Nugget's championship run. I can see us making the play-in and ending up in the finals with Brown!

Damn Chandan - he pulled the receipts on you

[anotherhomer]

What the hells even being discussed in this thread? The trade was horrible simply because of the desperate position Masai put himself in.

If the Raptors are able to get a multiple time allstar/all nba player for Bruce, scrubs and those 3 level of picks this offseason... everyone would sign up asap.

Arguing otherwise just makes you look so damn homerish. Hope MLSE is atleast paying some of you folks for these takes lol.

What trade option for Pascal was better? I'll wait,...that's right you don't know. Neither do I. I believe it wasn't nearly as big as many of you assumed it to have been. And many are not considering salary. The Pascal trade was a win salary wise in a tight financial market. Potentially. The Poeltl trade I do not like either. Yet lets not forget Birch's final season wasn't dumped. Following the NHL and it's hard cap structure shows the importance of financial flexibility and the cost to acquire it.

Don't put yourself in quite literally the worst bargaining position possible, and maybe you extract more value. Wild concept. Keep dealing from a position of disadvantage, and yeah even the rumoured trades will look bad.

I agree that Siakams value was greatly overstated by a lot of fans, but suggesting that what we got for him was ok, because it was the best possible return is nonsense, when the reason it was such a bad return was due to poor management.

I've said it before and I will say it again, Masai was either wrong building a team with Siakam being "the guy" for 4 years, or Siakam had value and he ruined it and was stuck with a bad trade return. No matter which way you look at it, he **** up royally.

that may sound too harsh
not the best trade, but the media is pointing out is not as bad it seem
it be nice to get a blue-chip prospect tho
the trade offer from hawks wasn't necessarily better as aj griffin has really gone poorly
de'andre hunter be nice though

Thing is that, raps had to make this trade to move on with the Scottie Barnes era.
sure they could had traded pascal in 2023 deadline but scottie didn't take that jump yet