Siakam trade for basically nothing is now showing its effect

[PD28]

Okay, well this entire post is not the point you started making when you got called out for it, which was:



So yeah - move those goalposts. Your entire argument is that Siakam has not been able to bridge the gap between a guy playing like an MVP candidate and an average point guard. Like wow, hot take that Siakam is not MVP caliber.

Keep at it but I stand by that assessment. Siakam will never be an MVP caliber player and has never been.

But why is the threshold for Siakam to be an MVP caliber player

Probably because he's set to make 248.5 million over 5 years?

That should put him near top 12 in salary so of course the expectation is MVP-level. If the Pacers can convince him to stay below 40 million per year then All-star level is more than adequate.

[oldncreaky]

Keep at it but I stand by that assessment. Siakam will never be an MVP caliber player and has never been.

But why is the threshold for Siakam to be an MVP caliber player

Probably because he's set to make 248.5 million over 5 years?

That should put him near top 12 in salary so of course the expectation is MVP-level. If the Pacers can convince him to stay below 40 million per year then All-star level is more than adequate.

Siakam will be eligible to sign a deal that maxes at 30% of the salary cap -- roughly $40M next season. That's far short of "MVP-level", or what true #1 options get (35% of the cap).

There are already a couple dozen players on the books next season at $40M or more, and there a few more players (PG, Harden) eligible to sign at that or more.

Given how the cap has been rising, if Siakam signs at his max, he won't ever be among the top 20 players in pay, and he may slide down to 30-something in a year or two. Fair, or at least close to fair, for a #2 option.

[Johnny Bball]

Definitely struck a nerve of a Siakam fan
NBA players are assets. Their contract value is directly linked to their value as a player - not a hard concept to grasp. You want to argue that you'd rather the Raptors pay for this next contract? Get your feelings out of it and think logically.

I'm not really a fan of players, not really anyone. I just get tired of people's dumbass slants and constant moving of goalposts. There's no need to even try to push through what you are, yet you're insistant on it. Ok then.

Not hard to grasp? Talk about his game and stop moving the goalposts to his contract, because you don't have a valid **** point to make and your original take is stupid. Your original point was his play. There'' that logically enough for you? That his contract has nothing to do with how he is playing and that you don't have a single valid thing to say about?

Do you want to pay his next contract? He's amazingly impactful so we should've wanted him too?



You want to argue his on court impact without talking about what is contract is worth.

Yeah, because that was the point of the discussion. Whether he was or was not helping the Pacers at this moment. I tend to stick to conversations instead of pretending they are about something else and lol because I don't have a point.

The conversation isn't about whether the Raptors wanted to pay him. The only one lost in his feelings here is you about a former player and whether he could have stayed, and needs to justify it. Which doesn't **** matter anymore.

That is a completely different conversation my guy. You started this entire thing with:

Pacers also looking like they added basically nothing

Right? This isn't hard.

[PD28]

But why is the threshold for Siakam to be an MVP caliber player

Probably because he's set to make 248.5 million over 5 years?

That should put him near top 12 in salary so of course the expectation is MVP-level. If the Pacers can convince him to stay below 40 million per year then All-star level is more than adequate.

Siakam will be eligible to sign a deal that maxes at 30% of the salary cap -- roughly $40M next season. That's far short of "MVP-level", or what true #1 options get (35% of the cap).

There are already a couple dozen players on the books next season at $40M or more, and there a few more players (PG, Harden) eligible to sign at that or more.

Given how the cap has been rising, if Siakam signs at his max, he won't ever be among the top 20 players in pay, and he may slide down to 30-something in a year or two. Fair, or at least close to fair, for a #2 option.

This the breakdown I am seeing unless there's something wrong with the math:


2024-25: $42,900,000
2025-26: $46,332,000
2026-27: $49,764,000
2027-28: $53,196,000
2028-29: $56,628,000
Total: Five years, $248,820,000

That’s 30% of the cap, with 8% raises. Like with the other deals, Siakam should be in position to negotiate a player option on the final year, a 15% trade bonus and possibly a no trade clause. The NTC would be available, because this would again be a new contract vs an extension.

https://www.spotrac.com/news/next-contract-series-pascal-siakam-1619/

[canada_dry]

Probably because he's set to make 248.5 million over 5 years?

That should put him near top 12 in salary so of course the expectation is MVP-level. If the Pacers can convince him to stay below 40 million per year then All-star level is more than adequate.

Siakam will be eligible to sign a deal that maxes at 30% of the salary cap -- roughly $40M next season. That's far short of "MVP-level", or what true #1 options get (35% of the cap).

There are already a couple dozen players on the books next season at $40M or more, and there a few more players (PG, Harden) eligible to sign at that or more.

Given how the cap has been rising, if Siakam signs at his max, he won't ever be among the top 20 players in pay, and he may slide down to 30-something in a year or two. Fair, or at least close to fair, for a #2 option.

This the breakdown I am seeing unless there's something wrong with the math:


2024-25: $42,900,000
2025-26: $46,332,000
2026-27: $49,764,000
2027-28: $53,196,000
2028-29: $56,628,000
Total: Five years, $248,820,000

That’s 30% of the cap, with 8% raises. Like with the other deals, Siakam should be in position to negotiate a player option on the final year, a 15% trade bonus and possibly a no trade clause. The NTC would be available, because this would again be a new contract vs an extension.

https://www.spotrac.com/news/next-contract-series-pascal-siakam-1619/

And you think that will be realistic for an extension at that point at his age? Just cuz its possible doesn't mean its gonna happen or its realistic.

At 40m hes not paid at nearly mvp level which you claimed .

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[YogurtProducer]

Probably because he's set to make 248.5 million over 5 years?

That should put him near top 12 in salary so of course the expectation is MVP-level. If the Pacers can convince him to stay below 40 million per year then All-star level is more than adequate.

Siakam will be eligible to sign a deal that maxes at 30% of the salary cap -- roughly $40M next season. That's far short of "MVP-level", or what true #1 options get (35% of the cap).

There are already a couple dozen players on the books next season at $40M or more, and there a few more players (PG, Harden) eligible to sign at that or more.

Given how the cap has been rising, if Siakam signs at his max, he won't ever be among the top 20 players in pay, and he may slide down to 30-something in a year or two. Fair, or at least close to fair, for a #2 option.

This the breakdown I am seeing unless there's something wrong with the math:


2024-25: $42,900,000
2025-26: $46,332,000
2026-27: $49,764,000
2027-28: $53,196,000
2028-29: $56,628,000
Total: Five years, $248,820,000

That’s 30% of the cap, with 8% raises. Like with the other deals, Siakam should be in position to negotiate a player option on the final year, a 15% trade bonus and possibly a no trade clause. The NTC would be available, because this would again be a new contract vs an extension.

https://www.spotrac.com/news/next-contract-series-pascal-siakam-1619/

But why does that matter when MVP's get 35% (or more?) of the cap?

Stop moving the goalposts man.

[ArthurVandelay]

Siakam will be eligible to sign a deal that maxes at 30% of the salary cap -- roughly $40M next season. That's far short of "MVP-level", or what true #1 options get (35% of the cap).

There are already a couple dozen players on the books next season at $40M or more, and there a few more players (PG, Harden) eligible to sign at that or more.

Given how the cap has been rising, if Siakam signs at his max, he won't ever be among the top 20 players in pay, and he may slide down to 30-something in a year or two. Fair, or at least close to fair, for a #2 option.

This the breakdown I am seeing unless there's something wrong with the math:


2024-25: $42,900,000
2025-26: $46,332,000
2026-27: $49,764,000
2027-28: $53,196,000
2028-29: $56,628,000
Total: Five years, $248,820,000

That’s 30% of the cap, with 8% raises. Like with the other deals, Siakam should be in position to negotiate a player option on the final year, a 15% trade bonus and possibly a no trade clause. The NTC would be available, because this would again be a new contract vs an extension.

https://www.spotrac.com/news/next-contract-series-pascal-siakam-1619/

But why does that matter when MVP's get 35% (or more?) of the cap?

Stop moving the goalposts man.

35% after 10+ years or if qualified for supermax for years 7-9.

[Harry Palmer]

This all happened because Masai grew a huge ego and bought into his own bull. He really thought the "winning culture" he fostered would carry the sub-par talent to at least elite territory. Maybe he didn't think he would win the whole thing, but at least he would get the respect and credit for being some sort of innovator (they zig, I zag). He got out of touch and underestimate how much talent is needed to win in this league.

Speaking of bull. Do you really believe that people running professional sports organizations operate like attention starved teenagers? News flash: they don't.

Absolutely perfect.

[islandboy53]

Probably because he's set to make 248.5 million over 5 years?

That should put him near top 12 in salary so of course the expectation is MVP-level. If the Pacers can convince him to stay below 40 million per year then All-star level is more than adequate.

Siakam will be eligible to sign a deal that maxes at 30% of the salary cap -- roughly $40M next season. That's far short of "MVP-level", or what true #1 options get (35% of the cap).

There are already a couple dozen players on the books next season at $40M or more, and there a few more players (PG, Harden) eligible to sign at that or more.

Given how the cap has been rising, if Siakam signs at his max, he won't ever be among the top 20 players in pay, and he may slide down to 30-something in a year or two. Fair, or at least close to fair, for a #2 option.

This the breakdown I am seeing unless there's something wrong with the math:


2024-25: $42,900,000
2025-26: $46,332,000
2026-27: $49,764,000
2027-28: $53,196,000
2028-29: $56,628,000
Total: Five years, $248,820,000

That’s 30% of the cap, with 8% raises. Like with the other deals, Siakam should be in position to negotiate a player option on the final year, a 15% trade bonus and possibly a no trade clause. The NTC would be available, because this would again be a new contract vs an extension.

https://www.spotrac.com/news/next-contract-series-pascal-siakam-1619/

Pascal's current salary of $37,893,408 places him 21st by cap hit this year. 30% of next year's $141 million cap generates $42.3 million, which would place him 21st, just behind former teammate FVV. Sounds fair.

[anotherhomer]

I think Pascal will sign a 4-5yr deal at 45M a year...

[Scase]

Siakam will be eligible to sign a deal that maxes at 30% of the salary cap -- roughly $40M next season. That's far short of "MVP-level", or what true #1 options get (35% of the cap).

There are already a couple dozen players on the books next season at $40M or more, and there a few more players (PG, Harden) eligible to sign at that or more.

Given how the cap has been rising, if Siakam signs at his max, he won't ever be among the top 20 players in pay, and he may slide down to 30-something in a year or two. Fair, or at least close to fair, for a #2 option.

This the breakdown I am seeing unless there's something wrong with the math:


2024-25: $42,900,000
2025-26: $46,332,000
2026-27: $49,764,000
2027-28: $53,196,000
2028-29: $56,628,000
Total: Five years, $248,820,000

That’s 30% of the cap, with 8% raises. Like with the other deals, Siakam should be in position to negotiate a player option on the final year, a 15% trade bonus and possibly a no trade clause. The NTC would be available, because this would again be a new contract vs an extension.

https://www.spotrac.com/news/next-contract-series-pascal-siakam-1619/

And you think that will be realistic for an extension at that point at his age? Just cuz its possible doesn't mean its gonna happen or its realistic.

At 40m hes not paid at nearly mvp level which you claimed .

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Splitting hairs IMO, he's just not worth a max contract.

[canada_dry]

This the breakdown I am seeing unless there's something wrong with the math:


2024-25: $42,900,000
2025-26: $46,332,000
2026-27: $49,764,000
2027-28: $53,196,000
2028-29: $56,628,000
Total: Five years, $248,820,000

That’s 30% of the cap, with 8% raises. Like with the other deals, Siakam should be in position to negotiate a player option on the final year, a 15% trade bonus and possibly a no trade clause. The NTC would be available, because this would again be a new contract vs an extension.

https://www.spotrac.com/news/next-contract-series-pascal-siakam-1619/

And you think that will be realistic for an extension at that point at his age? Just cuz its possible doesn't mean its gonna happen or its realistic.

At 40m hes not paid at nearly mvp level which you claimed .

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Splitting hairs IMO, he's just not worth a max contract.

Its not splitting hairs, its straight up telling untruths like saying hes not doing anything for the pacers then moving the goalpost, and saying hes taking up top 12 mvp level of cap space, further holding him to mvp standards which is just unfair to do to siakam because he's not that.

Untruths all because he dislikes him. Maybe that's just splitting hairs to you, but its nasty work.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[ItsDanger]

If Siakam signs for his eligible $200M over 4 years or $50M per year, that's close to what MVP caliber players are paid, currently. Is he worth that based on the various factors? Apparently only the Pacers believe so. Getting hung up on minor details is just misdirection from the main point. Don't overpay.

[Los_29]

I don’t think anyone truly believes that Pascal hasn’t made a positive impact for that team. They are 18-16 with him and for those 34 games Haliburton has been battling an injury.

Pacers can likely stomach the salary that Pascal will make because they have lots of players on rookie scale deals. The cap is also going up every year.

[islandboy53]

If Siakam signs for his eligible $200M over 4 years or $50M per year, that's close to what MVP caliber players are paid, currently. Is he worth that based on the various factors? Apparently only the Pacers believe so. Getting hung up on minor details is just misdirection from the main point. Don't overpay.

If you compare apples to apples, you see that there will be a minimum of 20 players earning more than Siakam's potential max next year, including at least 14 at or above Giannis' $48.9 million, and 6 north of $50 million. This is where most MVP level players live, salary wise. The Siakam max is a tier below, which seems appropriate. The Pacers knew exactly what Siakam's price point was when they traded for him. It's certainly not an overpay, despite your bad faith argument.

[srhcan]

Siakam is now averaging 21.4 points, 7.9 rebounds and 4.1 assists with Pacers.
He has become their leader in points per game and rebounds. Very Impressive to become leader of your new team so soon after mid-season trade.
He is 3rd in assists (4.1), 5th in steals (0.8), 6th in blocks (0.4), 5th in FG% (55%), 8th in 2P% (58.3%), 6th in 3P% (37.9%), 16th in FT% (69.3%). He is pretty good except free throws. The improvement in 3P% is mind-boggling.
Raptors were massively short-changed in this trade. In any other team, a person would have taken the fall and fired from the front office for botching this trade.

[Tripod]

Siakam is now averaging 21.4 points, 7.9 rebounds and 4.1 assists with Pacers.
He has become their leader in points per game and rebounds. Very Impressive to become leader of your new team after mid-season trade so soon.
He is 3rd in assists (4.1), 5th in steals (0.8), 6th in blocks (0.4), 5th in FG% (55%), 8th in 2P% (58.3%), 6th in 3P% (37.9%), 16th in FT% (69.3%). He is pretty good except free throws. The improvement in 3P% is mind-boggling.
Raptors were massively short-changed in this trade. In any other team, a person would have taken the fall and fired from the front office for botching this trade.

Get a grip

[canada_dry]

If Siakam signs for his eligible $200M over 4 years or $50M per year, that's close to what MVP caliber players are paid, currently. Is he worth that based on the various factors? Apparently only the Pacers believe so. Getting hung up on minor details is just misdirection from the main point. Don't overpay.

If you compare apples to apples, you see that there will be a minimum of 20 players earning more than Siakam's potential max next year, including at least 14 at or above Giannis' $48.9 million, and 6 north of $50 million. This is where most MVP level players live, salary wise. The Siakam max is a tier below, which seems appropriate. The Pacers knew exactly what Siakam's price point was when they traded for him. It's certainly not an overpay, despite your bad faith argument.

Bingo. Its a very simple concept to grasp.

Context and nuance. Just because people say "siakam max" it doesnt really mean the MAX around the league...

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[canada_dry]

If Siakam signs for his eligible $200M over 4 years or $50M per year, that's close to what MVP caliber players are paid, currently. Is he worth that based on the various factors? Apparently only the Pacers believe so. Getting hung up on minor details is just misdirection from the main point. Don't overpay.

Nasty work.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[JB7]

Siakam is now averaging 21.4 points, 7.9 rebounds and 4.1 assists with Pacers.
He has become their leader in points per game and rebounds. Very Impressive to become leader of your new team so soon after mid-season trade.
He is 3rd in assists (4.1), 5th in steals (0.8), 6th in blocks (0.4), 5th in FG% (55%), 8th in 2P% (58.3%), 6th in 3P% (37.9%), 16th in FT% (69.3%). He is pretty good except free throws. The improvement in 3P% is mind-boggling.
Raptors were massively short-changed in this trade. In any other team, a person would have taken the fall and fired from the front office for botching this trade.

Pascal’s 3pt attempts have dropped from 3.7 per game to 2.6 per game. He is probably just taking wide open 3’s on the Pacers, which is the reason his percentage has gone up.

Pacers are one of the few teams that were probably willing to pay Pascal the max, since they cannot sign any free agents. That is the reason the trade market was so horrible for him.

The choice for the Raps was between retaining him and having to pay him the max, or taking the trade return they got. I think it was time for Pascal to go. The team tying up its cap room on Pascal would have got them nowhere, and once Pascal gets maxed, his contract will be much harder to move.