Did we give up on Banton too soon?

[KL78192020]

Another big game last night (in a losing cause). 31 pts 5 rebs, 9 asts on 5/11 shooting.

I mean if we're looking at wins and losses lol all of Gradeys stats are in losses as well. Banton is definitely a better prospect than Ochai.

[Duffman100]

Another big game last night (in a losing cause). 31 pts 5 rebs, 9 asts on 5/11 shooting.

And -15 again.

[Fairview4Life]

Another big game last night (in a losing cause). 31 pts 5 rebs, 9 asts on 5/11 shooting.

And -15 again.

Who cares though, that's still a great game.

[Duffman100]

Another big game last night (in a losing cause). 31 pts 5 rebs, 9 asts on 5/11 shooting.

And -15 again.

Who cares though, that's still a great game.

It matters because we have to wait and see if his game actually contributes to winning basketball.

So far in this stretch, his +/- has frequently been team worse (or close to) in each game. I don't put much in individual game to game plus / minus, but when it starts trending in a direction...

[anotherhomer]

And -15 again.

Who cares though, that's still a great game.

It matters because we have to wait and see if his game actually contributes to winning basketball.

So far in this stretch, his +/- has frequently been team worse in each game. I don't put much in individual game to game plus / minus, but when it starts trending in a direction...

I wouldn't look at the plus minus

My bigger argument remains that banton would not had thrive in toronto. Too much distractions.

He's in Portland where he can mainly focus on basketball

[Duffman100]

Who cares though, that's still a great game.

It matters because we have to wait and see if his game actually contributes to winning basketball.

So far in this stretch, his +/- has frequently been team worse in each game. I don't put much in individual game to game plus / minus, but when it starts trending in a direction...

I wouldn't look at the plus minus

My bigger argument remains that banton would not had thrive in toronto. Too much distractions.

He's in Portland where he can mainly focus on basketball

Largely it's tough to take anything away from any of these games. Again, Elfrid Payton put up triple doubles down the stretch multiple times.

Wait until pressure is back on.

[HiJiNX]

Who cares though, that's still a great game.

It matters because we have to wait and see if his game actually contributes to winning basketball.

So far in this stretch, his +/- has frequently been team worse in each game. I don't put much in individual game to game plus / minus, but when it starts trending in a direction...

I wouldn't look at the plus minus

My bigger argument remains that banton would not had thrive in toronto. Too much distractions.

He's in Portland where he can mainly focus on basketball

I agree.

I don’t think plus/minus is a good indicator of impact when the entire team he’s playing for is just bad. Of course his plus minus is gonna be bad—the team sucks. If you were looking at Banton as a guy who you want to lead a team or be a top three player on a team, then that plus minus stat is a red flag, but if you’re looking a guy you hope can be a contributor on a good team, then it’s hard to use that as an indicator of impact.

Ultimately, Banton’s biggest hurdle in the NBA was shooting and he seems to be working that out. He’s always had a fair amount of natural instinct for the game, and he’s obviously very fast.

That said, I think he needed the change of scenery. It wasn’t gonna happen here. Now that he’s improved though maybe we have the inside track on bringing him back.

Mostly though, it looks like he’s carving out an NBA career for himself so good for him. Hard to do from Rexdale. You don’t see a lot of poor kids make it anymore. The NBA is mostly filled with middle to upper class kids. It’s a great story if it works out.

[Duffman100]

It matters because we have to wait and see if his game actually contributes to winning basketball.

So far in this stretch, his +/- has frequently been team worse in each game. I don't put much in individual game to game plus / minus, but when it starts trending in a direction...

I wouldn't look at the plus minus

My bigger argument remains that banton would not had thrive in toronto. Too much distractions.

He's in Portland where he can mainly focus on basketball

I agree.

I don’t think plus/minus is a good indicator of impact when the entire team he’s playing for is just bad. Of course his plus minus is gonna be bad—the team sucks. If you were looking at Banton as a guy who you want to lead a team or be a top three player on a team, then that plus minus stat is a red flag, but if you’re looking a guy you hope can be a contributor on a good team, then it’s hard to use that as an indicator of impact.

Ultimately, Banton’s biggest hurdle in the NBA was shooting and he seems to be working that out. He’s always had a fair amount of natural instinct for the game, and he’s obviously very fast.

That said, I think he needed the change of scenery. It wasn’t gonna happen here. Now that he’s improved though maybe we have the inside track on bringing him back.

Mostly though, it looks like he’s carving out an NBA career for himself so good for him. Hard to do from Rexdale. You don’t see a lot of poor kids make it anymore. The NBA is mostly filled with middle to upper class kids. It’s a great story if it works out.

Oh 100%. I have nothing against Banton and I do hope he carves out a career.

I just have something against "We let him go too soon" or "this is a miss".

a) The change of scenery might have been needed (as you mentioned)
b) We have no idea if his game will actually impact basketball on a winning level.

[OakleyDokely]

Watch on YouTube

[tecumseh18]

I don’t think plus/minus is a good indicator of impact when the entire team he’s playing for is just bad.

I sure hope you're right, because Gradey's plus/minus is deplorable.


Anyway, an ex-Raptor that I'm sure could help the team win more games even now is RFA-to-be Precious Achiuwa. I wonder what it would take for the Knicks not to match our offer?

[anotherhomer]

I wouldn't look at the plus minus

My bigger argument remains that banton would not had thrive in toronto. Too much distractions.

He's in Portland where he can mainly focus on basketball

I agree.

I don’t think plus/minus is a good indicator of impact when the entire team he’s playing for is just bad. Of course his plus minus is gonna be bad—the team sucks. If you were looking at Banton as a guy who you want to lead a team or be a top three player on a team, then that plus minus stat is a red flag, but if you’re looking a guy you hope can be a contributor on a good team, then it’s hard to use that as an indicator of impact.

Ultimately, Banton’s biggest hurdle in the NBA was shooting and he seems to be working that out. He’s always had a fair amount of natural instinct for the game, and he’s obviously very fast.

That said, I think he needed the change of scenery. It wasn’t gonna happen here. Now that he’s improved though maybe we have the inside track on bringing him back.

Mostly though, it looks like he’s carving out an NBA career for himself so good for him. Hard to do from Rexdale. You don’t see a lot of poor kids make it anymore. The NBA is mostly filled with middle to upper class kids. It’s a great story if it works out.

Oh 100%. I have nothing against Banton and I do hope he carves out a career.

I just have something against "We let him go too soon" or "this is a miss".

a) The change of scenery might have been needed (as you mentioned)
b) We have no idea if his game will actually impact basketball on a winning level.

I think it's irrelevant to argue we let him go too soon. We don't know if he be successful but it would not have happened here.

He have too many "friends" from Rexdale looking for handouts

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Another big game last night (in a losing cause). 31 pts 5 rebs, 9 asts on 5/11 shooting.

And -15 again.

Who cares though, that's still a great game.

if people are here are going to prop him up as a "missed opportunity" - it absolutely matters to some extent. we can still enjoy his development overall though.

[Tor_Raps]

Another big game last night (in a losing cause). 31 pts 5 rebs, 9 asts on 5/11 shooting.

And -15 again.

By your logic, every current Raptor sucks loll. Hope you're not serious at using +/- stats as your indicator of a good/bad player.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Who cares though, that's still a great game.

It matters because we have to wait and see if his game actually contributes to winning basketball.

So far in this stretch, his +/- has frequently been team worse in each game. I don't put much in individual game to game plus / minus, but when it starts trending in a direction...

I wouldn't look at the plus minus

My bigger argument remains that banton would not had thrive in toronto. Too much distractions.

He's in Portland where he can mainly focus on basketball

that plus he didn't develop while in Toronto because of opportunities and/or lack of game overall. his G-league jumper didn't translate to the NBA at the time, he had 0 strength to finish at the rim in traffic, and Raptors didn't have enough shot makers on the team to get free in traffic.

and plus, he didn't succeed in Boston either, a perennial playoff team that didn't his development arc in their system either.

He's producing at least on the offensive end but thats dime a dozen, especially on bad teams

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Another big game last night (in a losing cause). 31 pts 5 rebs, 9 asts on 5/11 shooting.

And -15 again.

By your logic, every current Raptor sucks loll. Hope you're not serious at using +/- stats as your indicator of a good/bad player.

him putting up stats on a bad team is also not an indicator of a good/bad player either. works both ways.

[Tor_Raps]

And -15 again.

By your logic, every current Raptor sucks loll. Hope you're not serious at using +/- stats as your indicator of a good/bad player.

him putting up stats on a bad team is also not an indicator of a good/bad player either. works both ways.

Totally agree but it is still more impressive than not even being able to put up any statistics.

We're currently getting our asses beat by 40+ at home. Obviously we could use someone like Banton to make these losses less humiliating.

[Duffman100]

Another big game last night (in a losing cause). 31 pts 5 rebs, 9 asts on 5/11 shooting.

And -15 again.

By your logic, every current Raptor sucks loll. Hope you're not serious at using +/- stats as your indicator of a good/bad player.

When you're consistently the worst, or near worst, in +/- over a longer trend, it does matter a bit.

Again, my stance is that we can't take anything from these late season games. There's zero indication his games are providing anything of value to winning basketball.

[binjumper]

By your logic, every current Raptor sucks loll. Hope you're not serious at using +/- stats as your indicator of a good/bad player.

him putting up stats on a bad team is also not an indicator of a good/bad player either. works both ways.

Totally agree but it is still more impressive than not even being able to put up any statistics.

We're currently getting our asses beat by 40+ at home. Obviously we could use someone like Banton to make these losses less humiliating.

Who cares about these losses. We got 4 starters with a legit reason to be out. Our team is g leaguers getting in runs. It's fine we got a bunch of picks and a future that has guys like dick barnes IQ and RJ developing. Funny thing is we relate this to the dark days of the Raptors, but back then we knew those teams had no futures. We have legit all-star talent and dudes with potential on the team.

[Chandan]

Even if banton becomes MJ it's not Masai's fault for giving up on him too early, because there is no way he would have done it here in Toronto.

Masai seriously have the easiest job in the world.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

him putting up stats on a bad team is also not an indicator of a good/bad player either. works both ways.

Totally agree but it is still more impressive than not even being able to put up any statistics.

We're currently getting our asses beat by 40+ at home. Obviously we could use someone like Banton to make these losses less humiliating.

Who cares about these losses. We got 4 starters with a legit reason to be out. Our team is g leaguers getting in runs. It's fine we got a bunch of picks and a future that has guys like dick barnes IQ and RJ developing. Funny thing is we relate this to the dark days of the Raptors, but back then we knew those teams had no futures. We have legit all-star talent and dudes with potential on the team.

yup

i'm all for the development of Dick and ball in Dick's hands, even if he stumbles, right now. We won't be able to match Detroits losing streak so its not like there is anything at risk right now. and we're seeing how these g-league players do as well since this team is really really short on talent overall.