Did we give up on Banton too soon?

[maternal85]

All these analytical nerds and their bad efficiency narrative. The same nerds will somehow flip useless players stats like Ochai, JFL, Nwora, etc, and claim how they're a better prospect than Banton. Apparently any 3rd stringer can put up 20ppg- 30ppg according to some. Ochai couldn't throw a ball in the ocean. But these analytical nerds will show how he's a lethal 3 point shooter from the corner. Was it the left or right corner again ?

Ochai is also somehow a defensive stopper like OG now lol. If Banton is a nothing prospect, just keep the same energy for our other "prospects" as well. But losing Banton isn't an issue. I agree.

This bias is just sickening. Along with the analytical nerds gaslighting people to fit their narrative.

What is with the anger man I hate this notion form some that using a form of stats and actual, well, evidence is pushed aside because we are "nerds"?

Ochai is just indisputably a better prospect than Banton. The league agrees (which is why one was the 14th pick and one was a mid 2nd), and also why one has been a regular rotation player in the NBA from day 1 and the other is having his best stretch of his career by putting up below average efficiency points on a bottom 5 team after being literally given away by two other franchises.

But FWIW - Ochai is a good corner 3 shooter. In his career, 48% from the right corner and 38% from the left corner. You can ignore that all you want but it is just the truth. Not to mention he shot 37% from 3 over 4 seasons in college. There is like... a lot of evidence that Agbaji has a 3 point shot in him.

That is also reflected in the fact he has shot 44% from mid range and 39% from long 2 in his career. That has not yet shown in Toronto as his shot has been pretty bad, but there is a reason why you don't look at 17 game samples to draw conclusions.

Banton on the other hand shot 24% from 3 in college, has shot 31% in his NBA career, and there is next to no evidence the shot might come around. He shoots 31% and 22% from the corners, and is a 27% mid range shooter.

Just funny that "Ochai cant throw a ball in the ocean" yet he is twice the shooter Banton is But hey - don't let the stats (facts) bias you.

I stopped reading when you put importance on draft position after a few years in the league. You know what you're trying to do. It won't work. Ochai the amazing prospect has been a starter for championship teams, he's such an amazing prospect, yet he's been traded around a few times, and basically given away for free by the Jazz.

[YogurtProducer]

All these analytical nerds and their bad efficiency narrative. The same nerds will somehow flip useless players stats like Ochai, JFL, Nwora, etc, and claim how they're a better prospect than Banton. Apparently any 3rd stringer can put up 20ppg- 30ppg according to some. Ochai couldn't throw a ball in the ocean. But these analytical nerds will show how he's a lethal 3 point shooter from the corner. Was it the left or right corner again ?

Ochai is also somehow a defensive stopper like OG now lol. If Banton is a nothing prospect, just keep the same energy for our other "prospects" as well. But losing Banton isn't an issue. I agree.

This bias is just sickening. Along with the analytical nerds gaslighting people to fit their narrative.

What is with the anger man I hate this notion form some that using a form of stats and actual, well, evidence is pushed aside because we are "nerds"?

Ochai is just indisputably a better prospect than Banton. The league agrees (which is why one was the 14th pick and one was a mid 2nd), and also why one has been a regular rotation player in the NBA from day 1 and the other is having his best stretch of his career by putting up below average efficiency points on a bottom 5 team after being literally given away by two other franchises.

But FWIW - Ochai is a good corner 3 shooter. In his career, 48% from the right corner and 38% from the left corner. You can ignore that all you want but it is just the truth. Not to mention he shot 37% from 3 over 4 seasons in college. There is like... a lot of evidence that Agbaji has a 3 point shot in him.

That is also reflected in the fact he has shot 44% from mid range and 39% from long 2 in his career. That has not yet shown in Toronto as his shot has been pretty bad, but there is a reason why you don't look at 17 game samples to draw conclusions.

Banton on the other hand shot 24% from 3 in college, has shot 31% in his NBA career, and there is next to no evidence the shot might come around. He shoots 31% and 22% from the corners, and is a 27% mid range shooter.

Just funny that "Ochai cant throw a ball in the ocean" yet he is twice the shooter Banton is But hey - don't let the stats (facts) bias you.

I stopped reading when you put importance on draft position after a few years in the league. You know what you're trying to do. It won't work. Ochai the amazing prospect has been a starter for championship teams, he's such an amazing prospect, yet he's been traded around a few times, and basically given away for free by the Jazz.

He was traded in a huge package for Gobert and then again for a first round pick

Danton was cut, then traded for a top 55 protected pick.

Come on man. I’m not acting like Agbaji is amazing - I’m just pointing out the bar to be better than Banton is really **** low.

[maternal85]

What is with the anger man I hate this notion form some that using a form of stats and actual, well, evidence is pushed aside because we are "nerds"?

Ochai is just indisputably a better prospect than Banton. The league agrees (which is why one was the 14th pick and one was a mid 2nd), and also why one has been a regular rotation player in the NBA from day 1 and the other is having his best stretch of his career by putting up below average efficiency points on a bottom 5 team after being literally given away by two other franchises.

But FWIW - Ochai is a good corner 3 shooter. In his career, 48% from the right corner and 38% from the left corner. You can ignore that all you want but it is just the truth. Not to mention he shot 37% from 3 over 4 seasons in college. There is like... a lot of evidence that Agbaji has a 3 point shot in him.

That is also reflected in the fact he has shot 44% from mid range and 39% from long 2 in his career. That has not yet shown in Toronto as his shot has been pretty bad, but there is a reason why you don't look at 17 game samples to draw conclusions.

Banton on the other hand shot 24% from 3 in college, has shot 31% in his NBA career, and there is next to no evidence the shot might come around. He shoots 31% and 22% from the corners, and is a 27% mid range shooter.

Just funny that "Ochai cant throw a ball in the ocean" yet he is twice the shooter Banton is But hey - don't let the stats (facts) bias you.

I stopped reading when you put importance on draft position after a few years in the league. You know what you're trying to do. It won't work. Ochai the amazing prospect has been a starter for championship teams, he's such an amazing prospect, yet he's been traded around a few times, and basically given away for free by the Jazz.

He was traded in a huge package for Gobert and then again for a first round pick

Danton was cut, then traded for a top 55 protected pick.

Come on man. I’m not acting like Agbaji is amazing - I’m just pointing out the bar to be better than Banton is really **** low.

He was nothing but a filler in a salary dump. The Jazz didn't want Gobert contract anymore. I don't care how a players journey starts. It's what you do once you're in the league. A 2nd rounder doesn't usually make the league, let alone be in the league for a few years, making a few millions.

Yet we're here debating if he's better than a 1st round pick, with a guaranteed contract. Says it all. Take away Ochai guaranteed contract, would he still be in the NBA ? I'm even realizing how much more Banton has accomplished than this sniper from the corner Ochai as I type.

[YogurtProducer]

Okay man you are trolling

He was nothing but a filler in a salary dump. The Jazz didn't want Gobert contract anymore.

Agbaji was not a part of the Gobert trade (my bad). He was drafted 14th by Cleveland, and then traded a month later for Donovan Mitchell. That was NOT a salary dump... that was Cleveland giving Utah assets for Mitchell.

I don't care how a players journey starts. It's what you do once you're in the league. A 2nd rounder doesn't usually make the league, let alone be in the league for a few years, making a few millions.

Banton is 1 of 26 players from the 2021 draft who was drafted in the 2nd round and played in the NBA. 8 of those players have played more minutes than Banton.

Yet we're here debating if he's better than a 1st round pick, with a guaranteed contract. Says it all. Take away Ochai guaranteed contract, would he still be in the NBA ? I'm even realizing how much more Banton has accomplished than this sniper from the corner Ochai as I type.

No one is debating that. YOU are trying to make that claim and I am telling you how outlandish that comment is.

30/30 teams take Agbaji over Banton.

[dTox]

No offence, but I am taking any performance from players in Portland, especially given their roster and time of year, with a very small grain of salt.

[WaltFrazier]

No offence, but I am taking any performance from players in Portland, especially given their roster and time of year, with a very small grain of salt.

Same with the current Raptor players getting minutes because of injuries?

[WaltFrazier]

All these analytical nerds and their bad efficiency narrative. The same nerds will somehow flip useless players stats like Ochai, JFL, Nwora, etc, and claim how they're a better prospect than Banton. Apparently any 3rd stringer can put up 20ppg- 30ppg according to some. Ochai couldn't throw a ball in the ocean. But these analytical nerds will show how he's a lethal 3 point shooter from the corner. Was it the left or right corner again ?

Ochai is also somehow a defensive stopper like OG now lol. If Banton is a nothing prospect, just keep the same energy for our other "prospects" as well. But losing Banton isn't an issue. I agree.

This bias is just sickening. Along with the analytical nerds gaslighting people to fit their narrative.

Enough of the name calling. Next time it’s a warning.

Just so I'm clear, "nerds" is the epithet that can bring a warning? Or does it have to be "analytical nerds" to warrant moderator action?

[Chandan]

No offence, but I am taking any performance from players in Portland, especially given their roster and time of year, with a very small grain of salt.

Same with the current Raptor players getting minutes because of injuries?

Nah our losing is different than their losing because grass is always greener on this side.

[WaltFrazier]

From Doug Smith's mailbag column:

Hey, Doug. Long, long time follower. Glad you’re still going strong. Looks like Dalano Banton has found a coach in Chauncey Billups who sees his potential and wants to develop him and instil confidence in him.

The past two games, Banton is averaging something like 28 points, 7.5 rebounds, five assists, one block, one steal, five made three-pointers, seven free-throw attempts, one turnover, two personal fouls. His defence has looked good, too, with numerous deflections. He's about a plus-10, and mostly playing with end-of-bench young'uns.

He would look great right now as a backup point guard to I.Q. and an occasional versatile wing when needed. Is there any chance we can sign him back home next year? I feel like Darko could be that coach as well, and I know Toronto fans really like Dalano.

—Rusty C.

He sure had a couple of big games, and good for him. I hope he gets a gig for next season, too.

Funny thing, though, Banton was with a bunch of young players who worked out with Darko for a few weeks before Summer League. He would have got a feeling for him, then decided to leave for Boston on his own.

So, I doubt a return is in the cards, quite aside from the fact the Raptors are committed to Immanuel Quickley and, probably, Scottie Barnes at the spot Banton might slot into.

So I guess dalano is coming back home after all.

[dTox]

No offence, but I am taking any performance from players in Portland, especially given their roster and time of year, with a very small grain of salt.

Same with the current Raptor players getting minutes because of injuries?

Nah our losing is different than their losing because grass is always greener on this side.

I like how you guys are putting words in my mouth that I never said, but the rules goes both ways, including for our players. What happened to all the folks fawning over Sharpe last year?

[Duffman100]

All these analytical nerds and their bad efficiency narrative. The same nerds will somehow flip useless players stats like Ochai, JFL, Nwora, etc, and claim how they're a better prospect than Banton. Apparently any 3rd stringer can put up 20ppg- 30ppg according to some. Ochai couldn't throw a ball in the ocean. But these analytical nerds will show how he's a lethal 3 point shooter from the corner. Was it the left or right corner again ?

Ochai is also somehow a defensive stopper like OG now lol. If Banton is a nothing prospect, just keep the same energy for our other "prospects" as well. But losing Banton isn't an issue. I agree.

This bias is just sickening. Along with the analytical nerds gaslighting people to fit their narrative.

Enough of the name calling. Next time it’s a warning.

Just so I'm clear, "nerds" is the epithet that can bring a warning? Or does it have to be "analytical nerds" to warrant moderator action?

All of it. It adds nothing of value and only incites until everyone ends up getting warned

[Chandan]

Same with the current Raptor players getting minutes because of injuries?

Nah our losing is different than their losing because grass is always greener on this side.

I like how you guys are putting words in my mouth that I never said, but the rules goes both ways, including for our players. What happened to all the folks fawning over Sharpe last year?

Oh mine wasn't in response to you.

[Chandan]

I've never seen a fanbase who argues more about utterly meaningless players that would ride the pine on even a .500 team. Like got dayum, he had a chance here, did nothing with it, he had a chance on Boston, did nothing with it.

Now, he's having games that look decent based off a simple box score, but when looked at from an efficiency stand point are Westbrook bad, on a terrible team. And people are out here acting like he's the one that "got away", lmao.

Pretty much over half of our current roster right now

Flynn precious banton Ochai nwora are in the same group.

Except when it comes to players not on our team the narrative is "let see how he does on a winning team" where as guys on the Raptors = "I like him"

In the end, garbage in garbage out after 2 seasons.

Ochai and Precious in the same group is just plain wrong. We could get into the numbers and the reasons why, but you alreayd know them.

And as far as I know, pretty much nobody here liked Flynn and nobody thinks Nwora is back after this year. We've always had a more bullish consensus on Banton than those 2 and I still think we all still do.

True, Precious is a better prospect than Ochai. Both were traded for an all star as part of the package. But Precious have shown higher peak in spurts.

[dTox]

Ochai is a mediocre prospect (Delano is no better), there's no sugar coating that.

[basketballto]

Banton was just traded for a top-55 protected pick. We also just had two years of Banton and it appears as though no improvements have been made. I wish Banton well and want him to do well. He has already outperformed his draft position just by still being in the league. However, he’s just not an impactful player and he doesn’t have a great NBA skill. He’s just average to below average in everything. His height is why he’s still in the league.

Like what are these people seriously watching?

He is on his 3rd team in less than a year. He is putting up meh counting stats on bad efficiency and brings nothing else to the table.

He is not good enough to take time away from Agabji, let alone Bruce Brown (6th man on a champion) or Gary Trent who has been a legit NBA rotation player for 6 years now.

Just another example of people just looking at boxscore stats and not digging any deeper than that.

Bruce Brown has become underrated on here. Less than a year ago he was playing 30 minutes a game for the NBA champs and now some are saying Dalano Banton can take his minutes. lol.

We've seen Banton live. His speed is elite as was his size. He needed to work on his shot, playmaking. Looks like he did.

Looking at what Brown did on a team with the best player in the game and ignoring what he is doing by himself in front of your eyes is looking at yesterdays boxscore and thinking it applies today. You think Banton is the same player under nurse living at home? Players change and some get better

[Los_29]

Like what are these people seriously watching?

He is on his 3rd team in less than a year. He is putting up meh counting stats on bad efficiency and brings nothing else to the table.

He is not good enough to take time away from Agabji, let alone Bruce Brown (6th man on a champion) or Gary Trent who has been a legit NBA rotation player for 6 years now.

Just another example of people just looking at boxscore stats and not digging any deeper than that.

Bruce Brown has become underrated on here. Less than a year ago he was playing 30 minutes a game for the NBA champs and now some are saying Dalano Banton can take his minutes. lol.

We've seen Banton live. His speed is elite as was his size. He needed to work on his shot, playmaking. Looks like he did.

Looking at what Brown did on a team with the best player in the game and ignoring what he is doing by himself in front of your eyes is looking at yesterdays boxscore and thinking it applies today. You think Banton is the same player under nurse living at home? Players change and some get better

Who cares if his size and speed are good. You need more than that in the NBA. How has his playmaking improved? His assist rate is the same as it has always been and he’s still not efficient from the field. Even with him nailing his threes, he’s still scoring on poor efficiency. A low efficiency player with bad pkaymaking isn’t going to stick in the league. He needs to improve dramatically.

Bruce Brown has NBA skills which is why he’s carved out a career in the league. He can play with elite players. Dalano can’t.

Comparing him to Bruce Brown is literally absurd. lol.

[brownbobcat]

Are you not the one ignoring that defense is half the game, and the only NBA skill either player possesses is Agbaji can defend?

It does not matter that Banton can dribble or drive. He is not good enough at either of those things to be asked to do it in a real NBA game with a team with real aspirations. Agbaji is at least good enough to be thrown out there to defend, and his corner 3pt shot is another thing that looks like it might be real.

There is a reason why Agbaji has been a rotational player since the day he entered the NBA, and why Banton only gets minutes in garbage time or when half the league has shut down in March.

Banton is not a terrible defender, he's shown an ability to disrupt passing lanes and has good foot speed. Footwork itself and rotational awareness isn't great, but his length allows him to recover decently on his man.

As for Agbaji, you're severely overrating his defense. He's looked like the wing version of Achiuwa, great 1v1 but nothing special at anything else (recognizing screens, fighting through them, tracking offball movement). Those are mostly mental hurdles so hopefully he gets better, but he also had 4 years of college to learn this stuff. You keep bringing up his draft status as if it actually meant something, but he just got traded in a package for the 29th pick in a weak draft.

Do I think Banton is some great prospect? No, he's D level and could easily be out of the league in a couple years. But Agbaji's right there with him though I think he has a higher floor. But it's ironic that you're calling Dalano's minutes "garbage time" and Agbaji's "rotational" as if Toronto is any better than Portland right now.

[Fairview4Life]

I liked Banton despite his lack of performance here and I think it would have been interesting to give him a full year with Darko and team development. Get him on those Gradey Dick roids too. But I'm not willing to discount the off court distractions whispers either and it might be better for him to be away from the city.

[OakleyDokely]

I liked Banton despite his lack of performance here and I think it would have been interesting to give him a full year with Darko and team development. Get him on those Gradey Dick roids too. But I'm not willing to discount the off court distractions whispers either and it might be better for him to be away from the city.

Got Barrett.
Got Olynyk.
Getting Shai and Murray.

So, bringing back Dalano is the next obvious step.

[YogurtProducer]

Banton is not a terrible defender, he's shown an ability to disrupt passing lanes and has good foot speed. Footwork itself and rotational awareness isn't great, but his length allows him to recover decently on his man.

Banton gambles a lot - he is lost in a team concept and he is not quick enough to guard guard nor strong enough to guard forwards or bigs. He is just bad on that end.

As for Agbaji, you're severely overrating his defense. He's looked like the wing version of Achiuwa, great 1v1 but nothing special at anything else (recognizing screens, fighting through them, tracking offball movement). Those are mostly mental hurdles so hopefully he gets better, but he also had 4 years of college to learn this stuff. You keep bringing up his draft status as if it actually meant something, but he just got traded in a package for the 29th pick in a weak draft.

Being great 1v1 is a skill you still need on a team. It is also is one NBA skill Agbaji has... Banton has zero other than height (which he does not use to his advantage anyways)

Anyone who thinks Kelly brought much value back as an expiring 32 year old is out of their mind.

Do I think Banton is some great prospect? No, he's D level and could easily be out of the league in a couple years. But Agbaji's right there with him though I think he has a higher floor. But it's ironic that you're calling Dalano's minutes "garbage time" and Agbaji's "rotational" as if Toronto is any better than Portland right now.

Banton might not even be on a roster next season, let alone a couple of years. Trust me when I say teams are not clamoring at the ability to add a below average efficiency, bad playmaking, meh defending, point guard.

And yeah... Dalano's minutes are garbage time.

The fact you dont see the difference between what Dalano is doing now, and Agbaji being a rotational player for the entirety of his career is just showing the bias. Ochai was literally a rotational player on a Jazz team for a decent chunk of last season that was in the play-in until they pulled out the full tank with 10 games left. And this year, he again was a rotation player / spot starter for the 26-26 Jazz when he was traded.

Banton on the other hand has been glued to the bench his entire career until he got traded to one of the worst teams in the league and is allowed to play and do whatever he wants because Portland does not care.