Did we give up on Banton too soon?

[ItsDanger]

Sharpe's numbers are better this season when he got more minutes. Portland had a crowded backcourt, some of these rebuilding teams have gone overboard on asset accumulation in lieu of playing their top young guys in their proper roles

[OakleyDokely]

The same thing happened with the Blazers last year.

When they were tanking and losing by 30 every night, guys like Sharpe were putting up huge numbers. But it's a different situation at the start of the year when you're trying to play winning basketball.

I hope Dalano can carve out a career though. It's cool having a Rexdale kid in the NBA.

Sharpe averaged 14pt/4rb in March 2023. This season he is averaging 15/5, so the "huge numbers" he was putting up to finish last year, he has continued this year.

Re the view that games are meaningless, while it's true Delon is getting more minutes due to tanking, keep in mind they aren't necessarily meaningless games to teams he's playing against.

POR opponents have been NO, NY, ATL, etc., and all are fighting for playoff position thus performing well against these teams that need to win are not meaningless. These teams are not relaxing on defense.

This is the context around Delon's performance and he's performing damn well! If he were still in TO, those with Raptors rose colored glasses would be fawning all over him by now. Maybe Masai should've had more patience?

Lillard was shut down Mar 24th last year, which is when POR really started the full scale tank. From that point, to the end of the season, Sharpe averaged 24/6/4 in mostly blowout losses.

[WaltFrazier]

He needed to get away from his hometown.

Do we know exactly why that is? It sounds like saying a guy like Marbury or Isiah Thomas needing to get away from the gang wars of an inner-city American city. But I know nothing about Rexdale culture and I always assume we are not like the US. Am I wrong?

[WaltFrazier]

Keep that in mind when pointing out stats on the current Raps team then. End of season stats can be misleading but depends on the role.

Oh no not at all. This only applies to other teams. If a Raptor prospect is doing it, then it means Masai found another hidden gem.

[WaltFrazier]

Nope. It's Portland and he's getting lots of burn with no leash. He's still ultimately a 3rd stringer.

He's getting a lot of burn with no leash, and producing. Since when is that a bad thing ? And 3rd stringers cannot put up these type of numbers regardless of how much burn they get.

If Freeman- Liberty was putting up these numbers, the whole board would claim what a steal he was. Nobody would talk about him getting burn with no leash. Stop the hate.

This. If he was getting this leash on a lotto team and not producing, there'd be no discussion. And as someone else posted, he's doing it against opponents who are trying to win, fighting for playoff spots.

[Duffman100]

Sharpe's numbers are better this season when he got more minutes. Portland had a crowded backcourt, some of these rebuilding teams have gone overboard on asset accumulation in lieu of playing their top young guys in their proper roles

Or they played him more minutes because he was playing better those games.

[Duffman100]

Nope. It's Portland and he's getting lots of burn with no leash. He's still ultimately a 3rd stringer.

He's getting a lot of burn with no leash, and producing. Since when is that a bad thing ? And 3rd stringers cannot put up these type of numbers regardless of how much burn they get.

If Freeman- Liberty was putting up these numbers, the whole board would claim what a steal he was. Nobody would talk about him getting burn with no leash. Stop the hate.

This. If he was getting this leash on a lotto team and not producing, there'd be no discussion. And as someone else posted, he's doing it against opponents who are trying to win, fighting for playoff spots.

I don't think the 'dicussion' is the problem. I think labelling this as a mistake by our FO is the problem.

It COULD be a mistake.
It could one of hundreds of examples of players boosting numbers in non-consequential games in the last quarter of the season.

[maternal85]

Virtually any player in the NBA has the ability to drop 20-30ppg with no leash or expectations, Banton is talented, he's just not very good in comparison to NBA players. Awful team trying to tank, and putting up mid numbers on below average efficiency. This is the prototype for putting up numbers on a bad team.

Hmm, absolutely not. You honestly feel Precious could get 20ppg with no leash ?

[maternal85]

I doubt any second round or undrafted player is asking out of any situation if they haven't established themselves.

I always thought Banton was talented and was surprised when the Raptors cut him loose.

I agree. What really happened.

[maternal85]

He's getting a lot of burn with no leash, and producing. Since when is that a bad thing ? And 3rd stringers cannot put up these type of numbers regardless of how much burn they get.

If Freeman- Liberty was putting up these numbers, the whole board would claim what a steal he was. Nobody would talk about him getting burn with no leash. Stop the hate.

This. If he was getting this leash on a lotto team and not producing, there'd be no discussion. And as someone else posted, he's doing it against opponents who are trying to win, fighting for playoff spots.

I don't think the 'dicussion' is the problem. I think labelling this as a mistake by our FO is the problem.

It COULD be a mistake.
It could one of hundreds of examples of players boosting numbers in non-consequential games in the last quarter of the season.

We lack talent. This is not the 2019 Raptors. Any player with potential should be held onto. This was a mistake. Though not one that'd move the needle. And I'm a Ujiri supporter.

[maternal85]

I thought he had asked to move on. Forgot who it was, but one of the players talked about Banton always being out at clubs. I think it was tough for him to be a young rich NBA player in the city he grew up in.

When Darko was hired, he specifically named Banton as someone he is looking forward to working with multiple times. If he didn't ask out, something may have happened behind the scenes that we're not privy to.

Then we trade for Barrett who makes over 20 million per year ? He's able to control himself ? I don't buy this reason.

[Duffman100]

This. If he was getting this leash on a lotto team and not producing, there'd be no discussion. And as someone else posted, he's doing it against opponents who are trying to win, fighting for playoff spots.

I don't think the 'dicussion' is the problem. I think labelling this as a mistake by our FO is the problem.

It COULD be a mistake.
It could one of hundreds of examples of players boosting numbers in non-consequential games in the last quarter of the season.

We lack talent. This is not the 2019 Raptors. Any player with potential should be held onto. This was a mistake. Though not one that'd move the needle. And I'm a Ujiri supporter.

And the debate is really Banton 'actual talent' or just putting up raw numbers on a bad team while being a negative on the court.

Banton is 24, a career 31% 3 point shooter and still putting up negative advanced stats.

There really isn't much difference between him and JFL except that Banton is being given the green light to play and handle the ball at will.

If Banton is anything more than a 10th-11th guy on an NBA roster for an actual winning team, I'll be shocked.

[maternal85]

I don't think the 'dicussion' is the problem. I think labelling this as a mistake by our FO is the problem.

It COULD be a mistake.
It could one of hundreds of examples of players boosting numbers in non-consequential games in the last quarter of the season.

We lack talent. This is not the 2019 Raptors. Any player with potential should be held onto. This was a mistake. Though not one that'd move the needle. And I'm a Ujiri supporter.

And the debate is really Banton 'actual talent' or just putting up raw numbers on a bad team while being a negative on the court.

Banton is 24, a career 31% 3 point shooter and still putting up negative advanced stats.

There really isn't much difference between him and JFL except that Banton is being given the green light to play and handle the ball at will.

If Banton is anything more than a 10th-11th guy on an NBA roster for an actual winning team, I'll be shocked.

So why hasn't JFL been released yet ? That's the confusion.

[Duffman100]

We lack talent. This is not the 2019 Raptors. Any player with potential should be held onto. This was a mistake. Though not one that'd move the needle. And I'm a Ujiri supporter.

And the debate is really Banton 'actual talent' or just putting up raw numbers on a bad team while being a negative on the court.

Banton is 24, a career 31% 3 point shooter and still putting up negative advanced stats.

There really isn't much difference between him and JFL except that Banton is being given the green light to play and handle the ball at will.

If Banton is anything more than a 10th-11th guy on an NBA roster for an actual winning team, I'll be shocked.

So why hasn't JFL been released yet ? That's the confusion.

Maybe they believe more in JFL than they do in Banton?

Either way, we're discussing two guys with very limited ceilings who, at best, will get spot minutes in a winning rotation throughout the season.

[brownbobcat]

The same thing happened with the Blazers last year.

When they were tanking and losing by 30 every night, guys like Sharpe were putting up huge numbers. But it's a different situation at the start of the year when you're trying to play winning basketball.

I hope Dalano can carve out a career though. It's cool having a Rexdale kid in the NBA.

But Sharpe is having a decent year too. Yes, it's a trash team and he has a greenlight and is inefficient, but the progression is decent.

Sharpe really isn’t having a decent year though. 40/33/82 and some ugly advanced metrics.

Sharpe is obviously all about potential - with his springs and his shot creation. But so far it really is potential.

Almost everyone is going to have ugly advanced metrics on a terrible team, especially a 20yr old learning the game. In the context of all that, it's a decent year. Not great, but decent.

Look at Gradey's advanced stats and tell me they aren't terrible too. Context matters.

[raincityraptors]

We lack talent. This is not the 2019 Raptors. Any player with potential should be held onto. This was a mistake. Though not one that'd move the needle. And I'm a Ujiri supporter.

And the debate is really Banton 'actual talent' or just putting up raw numbers on a bad team while being a negative on the court.

Banton is 24, a career 31% 3 point shooter and still putting up negative advanced stats.

There really isn't much difference between him and JFL except that Banton is being given the green light to play and handle the ball at will.

If Banton is anything more than a 10th-11th guy on an NBA roster for an actual winning team, I'll be shocked.

So why hasn't JFL been released yet ? That's the confusion.

I'm not going to pretend anyone on realGM can tell us why the Front Office is doing or not doing a thing.

But since you asked . . .

What are the open questions about JFL?

Will he get respect at the NBA level as a shooter and thus provide spacing? (We know Banton won't)

Can he be a strong point of attack defender? (Banton's length didn't always make up for his foot speed on that end, especially against quick guards).

Can we trust the ball in his hands? (Banton's turnovers have always been a thing)

Can we run the plays that we run for IQ when he's out and JFL is in? (You could not run those plays for Banton)

[maternal85]

And the debate is really Banton 'actual talent' or just putting up raw numbers on a bad team while being a negative on the court.

Banton is 24, a career 31% 3 point shooter and still putting up negative advanced stats.

There really isn't much difference between him and JFL except that Banton is being given the green light to play and handle the ball at will.

If Banton is anything more than a 10th-11th guy on an NBA roster for an actual winning team, I'll be shocked.

So why hasn't JFL been released yet ? That's the confusion.

Maybe they believe more in JFL than they do in Banton?

Either way, we're discussing two guys with very limited ceilings who, at best, will get spot minutes in a winning rotation throughout the season.

Under what merits does Ujiri and Webster believe JFL has a higher ceiling ? I get what you're saying. But don't push the youth movement, draft a potential/ decent role player, then let him go out of the blue. Then of course use the nerdy analytics to gaslight us. Not speaking to you specifically. But whatever direction the front office is going, follow it through.

[maternal85]

And the debate is really Banton 'actual talent' or just putting up raw numbers on a bad team while being a negative on the court.

Banton is 24, a career 31% 3 point shooter and still putting up negative advanced stats.

There really isn't much difference between him and JFL except that Banton is being given the green light to play and handle the ball at will.

If Banton is anything more than a 10th-11th guy on an NBA roster for an actual winning team, I'll be shocked.

So why hasn't JFL been released yet ? That's the confusion.

I'm not going to pretend anyone on realGM can tell us why the Front Office is doing or not doing a thing.

But since you asked . . .

What are the open questions about JFL?

Will he get respect at the NBA level as a shooter and thus provide spacing? (We know Banton won't)

Can he be a strong point of attack defender? (Banton's length didn't always make up for his foot speed on that end, especially against quick guards).

Can we trust the ball in his hands? (Banton's turnovers have always been a thing)

Can we run the plays that we run for IQ when he's out and JFL is in? (You could not run those plays for Banton)

Banton is currently a better prospect than JFL. Stop the gaslighting.

[Duffman100]

So why hasn't JFL been released yet ? That's the confusion.

Maybe they believe more in JFL than they do in Banton?

Either way, we're discussing two guys with very limited ceilings who, at best, will get spot minutes in a winning rotation throughout the season.

Under what merits does Ujiri and Webster believe JFL has a higher ceiling ? I get what you're saying. But don't push the youth movement, draft a potential/ decent role player, then let him go out of the blue. Then of course use the nerdy analytics to gaslight us. Not speaking to you specifically. But whatever direction the front office is going, follow it through.

Unless they don't like what they see? You can't in one voice say "they held onto flynn too long" and in another voice say "Well they cut a guy too soon". (not you, but the general sentiment).

We don't know what they're thinking, maybe something in his attitude, mechanics, etc.

Either way, to act as if Banton is somehow a tier above prospect than JFL is weird. Both of them are in the same spot - fighting for an NBA role at the end of the bench.

[ForeverTFC]

I thought he had asked to move on. Forgot who it was, but one of the players talked about Banton always being out at clubs. I think it was tough for him to be a young rich NBA player in the city he grew up in.

When Darko was hired, he specifically named Banton as someone he is looking forward to working with multiple times. If he didn't ask out, something may have happened behind the scenes that we're not privy to.

Then we trade for Barrett who makes over 20 million per year ? He's able to control himself ? I don't buy this reason.

Huh? Yeah, they’re two completely different people. They’re not going to react the same way by Oahu I g at home - putting aside that Barrett is much older in NBA terms.