Did we give up on Banton too soon?

[brownbobcat]

Not only is Barret more experienced, and had his start in NYC, but he also comes from a close-knit basketball family (his dad did sign with the Raptors and 76ers but never played a game) who were stars of the Canadian basketball scene. That tends to help with dealing with the on-court pressures and off-court stuff.

RJ has been around the game and exposed to what it takes to be a pro baller his entire life. He's lived around the world, been in the limelight, gone through elite prep schools and programs - that's all led to a vastly different level of maturity. I'm not implying anything bad about Dalano's background, but it's not comparable. He came out of relative obscurity and doesn't have anywhere near the level of support.

[YogurtProducer]

He is averaging 14ppg on 54TS% while not being a good defender or playmaker. That 54TS% is also boosted by a 39% from 3 which is obviously going to come down.

Ochai has been a disaster offensively but I don't think anyone is stating otherwise. That being said, Ochai has a legit NBA skill - and that is defense. What is Bantons legit skill other than being tall? He is a negative on both sides of the floor and the best stretch of his career is as a below average efficiency scorer who doesn't pass.

I like Banton (prob because of him being Canadian) - but he is not even stat padding on a bad team. He is just bad on a bad team.

You wanna tell me Banton is a low-quality prospect, that's fine. But it's hilarious to pump Agbaji's tires in the same breath. Banton gets into the paint much more frequently, rebounds and passes at significantly higher levels. Agbaji so far looks like a guy with an NBA body who can move his feet - that's the SG version of Achiuwa if he never improves.

I mean Agbaji is a much better prospect because he already does something at an NBA level, and that is defend. That is why he was drafted in the lottery, and Banton was a mid 2nd rounder.

Banton does nothing at an NBA level as of now. He can get into the paint and pass all he wants... he still is only shooting 57% at the rim and 39% from 3-10ft, and also averaged 2.6 assists to 1.9turnovers.

Like seriously - what part of Bantons game right now is good? The unsustainable 3 point shooting? Sure - if he actually maintains a 39% shot that means he has found his NBA skill and he will stick around. I would bet the guy who shoots below average from everywhere on the court did not suddenly figure out how to hit a 3 at an above average level.

Bantons only thing right now is that he is a massive "point guard". But reality is he is not good enough of a scorer or a playmaker so a serious team will have him off ball. Problem is he is not a good off-ball player and also is not good defensively.

[Duffman100]

He is averaging 14ppg on 54TS% while not being a good defender or playmaker. That 54TS% is also boosted by a 39% from 3 which is obviously going to come down.

Ochai has been a disaster offensively but I don't think anyone is stating otherwise. That being said, Ochai has a legit NBA skill - and that is defense. What is Bantons legit skill other than being tall? He is a negative on both sides of the floor and the best stretch of his career is as a below average efficiency scorer who doesn't pass.

I like Banton (prob because of him being Canadian) - but he is not even stat padding on a bad team. He is just bad on a bad team.

You wanna tell me Banton is a low-quality prospect, that's fine. But it's hilarious to pump Agbaji's tires in the same breath. Banton gets into the paint much more frequently, rebounds and passes at significantly higher levels. Agbaji so far looks like a guy with an NBA body who can move his feet - that's the SG version of Achiuwa if he never improves.

I mean Agbaji is a much better prospect because he already does something at an NBA level, and that is defend. That is why he was drafted in the lottery, and Banton was a mid 2nd rounder.

Banton does nothing at an NBA level as of now. He can get into the paint and pass all he wants... he still is only shooting 57% at the rim and 39% from 3-10ft, and also averaged 2.6 assists to 1.9turnovers.

Like seriously - what part of Bantons game right now is good? The unsustainable 3 point shooting? Sure - if he actually maintains a 39% shot that means he has found his NBA skill and he will stick around. I would bet the guy who shoots below average from everywhere on the court did not suddenly figure out how to hit a 3 at an above average level.

Bantons only thing right now is that he is a massive "point guard". But reality is he is not good enough of a scorer or a playmaker so a serious team will have him off ball. Problem is he is not a good off-ball player and also is not good defensively.

The issue is what does Banton actually do what with size?

His transition game was good, but you locked him into that half court and that size ended up becoming neutralized.

[C_Money]

He’s definitely improved his jump shot massively. The guy used to be an automatic brick.

[C_Money]

I think he asked out cuz of all the home distractions

I keep seeing this posted around here but nobody has ever provided a link.

[WuTang_OG]

I think he asked out cuz of all the home distractions

I keep seeing this posted around here but nobody has ever provided a link.

Read on Twitter

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1675904043519029249%7Ctwgr%5E2d29e0e0cdaf2c9e8296b05b0b2ad4fbcd38a99d%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.realgm.com%2Fboards%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D2305968

[YogurtProducer]

He’s definitely improved his jump shot massively. The guy used to be an automatic brick.

Literally is the difference between him being in or out of the league. If he reverts back to 30% he is not a player.

That can be said for a lot of the league to though. Stanley Johnson, Agbaji, RHJ, Bembry, etc. were all guys with NBA skills better than BAnton who still did not make it here long term due to having no shot

[Basketball_Jones]

Came off the bench last night but put up decent numbers. Needs to get used to being a spark plug off the bench ultimately that’s his long term role. Ultimately I don’t feel he was impressive here in Toronto aside from a couple of games. The opportunity is there though for anybody with height and ball handling in this league.

[Raps in 4]

I think he asked out cuz of all the home distractions

I keep seeing this posted around here but nobody has ever provided a link.

Read on Twitter

That doesn't say he asked out.

[Scase]

Virtually any player in the NBA has the ability to drop 20-30ppg with no leash or expectations, Banton is talented, he's just not very good in comparison to NBA players. Awful team trying to tank, and putting up mid numbers on below average efficiency. This is the prototype for putting up numbers on a bad team.

Hmm, absolutely not. You honestly feel Precious could get 20ppg with no leash ?

Without a shadow of a doubt. 20ppg on bad efficiency isn't hard. He's averaging 8.6 on 6.8FGA with the Knicks, give him 24FGA a game and 20ppg is not a hard goal.

Doing it efficiently is a different story.

[brownbobcat]

I mean Agbaji is a much better prospect because he already does something at an NBA level, and that is defend. That is why he was drafted in the lottery, and Banton was a mid 2nd rounder.

Draft position means less and less with time, Johnny Davis was drafted #10 - does anyone care about that anymore?

Banton does nothing at an NBA level as of now. He can get into the paint and pass all he wants... he still is only shooting 57% at the rim and 39% from 3-10ft, and also averaged 2.6 assists to 1.9turnovers.

Banton has shown an NBA-level ability to drive, create mismatches and also draw fouls. He's a much better rebounder than Agbaji and his length does bother players and disrupt passing lanes. Banton's issue is that his strengths don't fit a defined role as well as Agbaji (assuming the latter learns to shoot). Role players need to do well off-ball, not on-ball - as you said. Banton has a tougher road ahead because he has to improve in more areas and few teams will give him that leash. He has higher upside, but less probability of reaching it.

Both are C/D level prospects. My point was that it's laughable to dismiss players putting up counting stats on terrible teams when Toronto IS ALSO a terrible team and I don't see many of our young players doing the same.

[YogurtProducer]

[
Banton has shown an NBA-level ability to drive, create mismatches and also draw fouls. He's a much better rebounder than Agbaji and his length does bother players and disrupt passing lanes. Banton's issue is that his strengths don't fit a defined role as well as Agbaji (assuming the latter learns to shoot). Role players need to do well off-ball, not on-ball - as you said. Banton has a tougher road ahead because he has to improve in more areas and few teams will give him that leash. He has higher upside, but less probability of reaching it.

Both are C/D level prospects. My point was that it's laughable to dismiss players putting up counting stats on terrible teams when Toronto IS ALSO a terrible team and I don't see many of our young players doing the same.

Has Banton done that?

Banton is shooting 57% at the rim in POR, 39% from 3-10ft. Maybe he is driving but it is not resulting in buckets.

Draw fouls? He is taking 4.4FTA per 36 despite a 25% usage rate. That is pretty average for a guy with the ball as much as Banton who drives as much as he does.

He most certainly does not have higher upside than Agbaji though - that is a crazy comment. Agbaji is a 3 pointer away from being a legit 3+D starter on 30 NBA teams. Banton is a 3point shot away from being a backup PG.

Banton is tall. That is really it. He is not a great athlete. He is best with the ball, but he certainly is not good enough to ever warrant giving him the ball... so what is his role exactly? He is gonna put up some counting stats here but he has next to no impact on actually winning NBA basketball games.

I also just fail to see what you mean by this:

My point was that it's laughable to dismiss players putting up counting stats on terrible teams when Toronto IS ALSO a terrible team and I don't see many of our young players doing the same.

Ummm what? You don't see many of our young players doing the same?

Banton is the same age as Gary Trent, IQ, JFL, and Porter. GTJ / IQ are unquestioanbly better, Porter has shown a hell of a lot more potential, and JFL is a TBD but JFL has also had superior G-League stats so time will tell.

Banton is older than RJ (obviously better), Agbaji (tbd), Barnes (obviously better), and Dick (better).

Banton is also a year or so younger than Nwora, and Nwora has shown more NBA level skills (scoring) than Banton has tbh.

To say "our young players are not doing the same" is just such a bad comment Banton is not some young dude here. He is gonna be 25 next season.

[DreamTeam09]

I keep seeing this posted around here but nobody has ever provided a link.

Read on Twitter

That doesn't say he asked out.

It's been rumored that he was being approached by some of the OGs in his neighborhood, not extortion, but rumor was Toronto wasn't the safest spot for him. On top that, he did like the nightlife and the Toronto Shorty's, the hometown was definitely a distraction for him. You're not gonna find reports, but that makes a lot more sense then we just have up on the kid.

[brownbobcat]

Has Banton done that?

Banton is shooting 57% at the rim in POR, 39% from 3-10ft. Maybe he is driving but it is not resulting in buckets.

Draw fouls? He is taking 4.4FTA per 36 despite a 25% usage rate. That is pretty average for a guy with the ball as much as Banton who drives as much as he does.

Compared to Agbaji, not James Harden. His FTr is nearly double Agbaji's, and even comparable to IQ and Barnes. Is he anywhere as good as those guys? Of course not, he has a lot to work on.

He most certainly does not have higher upside than Agbaji though - that is a crazy comment. Agbaji is a 3 pointer away from being a legit 3+D starter on 30 NBA teams. Banton is a 3point shot away from being a backup PG.

Banton is tall. That is really it. He is not a great athlete. He is best with the ball, but he certainly is not good enough to ever warrant giving him the ball... so what is his role exactly? He is gonna put up some counting stats here but he has next to no impact on actually winning NBA basketball games.

Agbaji with a passable 3pt shot is maybe Terence Davis, not a legit starter on 30 teams. Put athleticism aside, what NBA skill does he actually have?

I also just fail to see what you mean by this:

My point was that it's laughable to dismiss players putting up counting stats on terrible teams when Toronto IS ALSO a terrible team and I don't see many of our young players doing the same.

Ummm what? You don't see many of our young players doing the same?

Banton is the same age as Gary Trent, IQ, JFL, and Porter. GTJ / IQ are unquestioanbly better, Porter has shown a hell of a lot more potential, and JFL is a TBD but JFL has also had superior G-League stats so time will tell.

Banton is older than RJ (obviously better), Agbaji (tbd), Barnes (obviously better), and Dick (better).

Banton is also a year or so younger than Nwora, and Nwora has shown more NBA level skills (scoring) than Banton has tbh.

To say "our young players are not doing the same" is just such a bad comment Banton is not some young dude here. He is gonna be 25 next season.

I'm talking about prospects, not guys like RJ and IQ who are 4+ years into their career and clearly rotation-level guys.

On this team, that's Nwora, Agbaji, Dick, Porter, JFL. Gradey's a B level prospect to me based on pedigree, skillset and age. The rest of those guys are C/D level at best just like Banton. I'm not saying Banton has star potential, but exactly which one of those guys is killing it right now? Nobody, that's who.

Oh, and Agbaji is barely 5 months younger than Banton - so when does he get his wheelchair?

[YogurtProducer]

Compared to Agbaji, not James Harden. His FTr is nearly double Agbaji's, and even comparable to IQ and Barnes. Is he anywhere as good as those guys? Of course not, he has a lot to work on.

So Banton, a guy playing PG, has a better FTr than an off-ball player... congratulations?

Agbaji with a passable 3pt shot is maybe Terence Davis, not a legit starter on 30 teams. Put athleticism aside, what NBA skill does he actually have?

What a horrible assessment of both Agbaji and Terence Davis They literally could not be any further from one another as players.

Agbaji is a legitimately good defender. For some reason half the court is being ignored here. Agbaji is above average on one side ofthe court - Banton is not.

I'm talking about prospects, not guys like RJ and IQ who are 4+ years into their career and clearly rotation-level guys.

Ah - so our young guys are to good to discuss

Banton is in his 3rd year, so not sure why a 4th year player is suddenly not being discussed.

On this team, that's Nwora, Agbaji, Dick, Porter, JFL. Gradey's a B level prospect to me based on pedigree, skillset and age. The rest of those guys are C/D level at best just like Banton. I'm not saying Banton has star potential, but exactly which one of those guys is killing it right now? Nobody, that's who.

Literally all of those guys, sans JFL, have shown more as players than Banton has.

Nwora at least can shoot and has shown to be capable as a scorer (just horrible defensively).
Agbaji is a plus defender
Dick is looking like an elite shooter
Porter has shown legit 2-way talent and is actually a very, very good playmaker for a big
JFL is the same level prospect as Banton - JFL had better G-League stats than Banton did

It is pretty ridiculous to lump in guys that have had some NBA success as the same level prospect as Banton. The fact two of those guys are lottery picks in the last 18 months puts them both miles ahead of Banton as a prospect (a player on his 3rd team in 3 years, actually 3rd in 8 months).

Oh, and Agbaji is barely 5 months younger than Banton - so when does he get his wheelchair?

Agbaji has an NBA skill to fall back on.

Not even saying Agbaji is a lock to be a legit NBA player, but he is certainly better than Banton.

[WaltFrazier]

Not only is Barret more experienced, and had his start in NYC, but he also comes from a close-knit basketball family (his dad did sign with the Raptors and 76ers but never played a game) who were stars of the Canadian basketball scene. That tends to help with dealing with the on-court pressures and off-court stuff.

RJ has been around the game and exposed to what it takes to be a pro baller his entire life. He's lived around the world, been in the limelight, gone through elite prep schools and programs - that's all led to a vastly different level of maturity. I'm not implying anything bad about Dalano's background, but it's not comparable. He came out of relative obscurity and doesn't have anywhere near the level of support.

RJ also seems to be part of a strong supportive church family/community in addition to immediate family.

[brownbobcat]

So Banton, a guy playing PG, has a better FTr than an off-ball player... congratulations?

Actually, yeah - it's commendable for a 2nd rounder who plays limited minutes to do that one thing onball as well Barnes and IQ. Also, the inability to do something should hardly be lauded.

Agbaji with a passable 3pt shot is maybe Terence Davis, not a legit starter on 30 teams. Put athleticism aside, what NBA skill does he actually have?

What a horrible assessment of both Agbaji and Terence Davis They literally could not be any further from one another as players.

Agbaji is a legitimately good defender. For some reason half the court is being ignored here. Agbaji is above average on one side ofthe court - Banton is not.

A lot of words, but no response. If he wasn't a knucklehead, Davis would've been a passable bench 2. Fill the lanes in transition, run hard, hit open shots, and hold your own on D. That's pretty much what Agbaji profiles as right now even if he isn't exactly the same player. It's 2024, shuffling your feet fast isn't enough - Agbaji ain't OG out there.

Ah - so our young guys are to good to discuss

Banton is in his 3rd year, so not sure why a 4th year player is suddenly not being discussed.

If you were paying attention, you'd know the discussion was about the validity of end-of-bench guys putting up "empty" stats on a bad team. RJ and IQ are clearly in a different tier and not relevant to the discussion. Including them in the comparison is either facetiousness or ignorance - which is it?

Literally all of those guys, sans JFL, have shown more as players than Banton has.

Nwora at least can shoot and has shown to be capable as a scorer (just horrible defensively).
Agbaji is a plus defender
Dick is looking like an elite shooter
Porter has shown legit 2-way talent and is actually a very, very good playmaker for a big
JFL is the same level prospect as Banton - JFL had better G-League stats than Banton did

It is pretty ridiculous to lump in guys that have had some NBA success as the same level prospect as Banton. The fact two of those guys are lottery picks in the last 18 months puts them both miles ahead of Banton as a prospect (a player on his 3rd team in 3 years, actually 3rd in 8 months).

Nwora is the exact same player he's been for 4 years. I'd say the likelihood of Toronto saying goodbye after the season is high. Rag on Banton all you want, but Nwora plays 13 mpg on a bottom-of-the-barrel team with terrible shooting.

TD showed enough to make 2nd team All Rookie. What has Agbaji shown - that a rebuilding Jazz team only thought he was worth a portion of a very late FRP in a weak draft? I don't see how you don't get that Agbaji's high draft selection is actually an indictment of how far his stock has fallen at this point. Danny Ainge just hit the reset button on a cost-controlled player he drafted 2 years ago.

And G League stats? Who cares - you might as well dig up some AAU numbers.

[YogurtProducer]

So Banton, a guy playing PG, has a better FTr than an off-ball player... congratulations?

Actually, yeah - it's commendable for a 2nd rounder who plays limited minutes to do that one thing onball as well Barnes and IQ. Also, the inability to do something should hardly be lauded.

Agbaji with a passable 3pt shot is maybe Terence Davis, not a legit starter on 30 teams. Put athleticism aside, what NBA skill does he actually have?

What a horrible assessment of both Agbaji and Terence Davis They literally could not be any further from one another as players.

Agbaji is a legitimately good defender. For some reason half the court is being ignored here. Agbaji is above average on one side ofthe court - Banton is not.

A lot of words, but no response. If he wasn't a knucklehead, Davis would've been a passable bench 2. Fill the lanes in transition, run hard, hit open shots, and hold your own on D. That's pretty much what Agbaji profiles as right now even if he isn't exactly the same player. It's 2024, shuffling your feet fast isn't enough - Agbaji ain't OG out there.

Ah - so our young guys are to good to discuss

Banton is in his 3rd year, so not sure why a 4th year player is suddenly not being discussed.

If you were paying attention, you'd know the discussion was about the validity of end-of-bench guys putting up "empty" stats on a bad team. RJ and IQ are clearly in a different tier and not relevant to the discussion. Including them in the comparison is either facetiousness or ignorance - which is it?

Literally all of those guys, sans JFL, have shown more as players than Banton has.

Nwora at least can shoot and has shown to be capable as a scorer (just horrible defensively).
Agbaji is a plus defender
Dick is looking like an elite shooter
Porter has shown legit 2-way talent and is actually a very, very good playmaker for a big
JFL is the same level prospect as Banton - JFL had better G-League stats than Banton did

It is pretty ridiculous to lump in guys that have had some NBA success as the same level prospect as Banton. The fact two of those guys are lottery picks in the last 18 months puts them both miles ahead of Banton as a prospect (a player on his 3rd team in 3 years, actually 3rd in 8 months).

Nwora is the exact same player he's been for 4 years. I'd say the likelihood of Toronto saying goodbye after the season is high. Rag on Banton all you want, but Nwora plays 13 mpg on a bottom-of-the-barrel team with terrible shooting.

TD showed enough to make 2nd team All Rookie. What has Agbaji shown - that a rebuilding Jazz team only thought he was worth a portion of a very late FRP in a weak draft? I don't see how you don't get that Agbaji's high draft selection is actually an indictment of how far his stock has fallen at this point. Danny Ainge just hit the reset button on a cost-controlled player he drafted 2 years ago.

And G League stats? Who cares - you might as well dig up some AAU numbers.

Stopped reading when you said Banton does something as well as Barnes

[JRoy]

So Banton, a guy playing PG, has a better FTr than an off-ball player... congratulations?

Actually, yeah - it's commendable for a 2nd rounder who plays limited minutes to do that one thing onball as well Barnes and IQ. Also, the inability to do something should hardly be lauded.

What a horrible assessment of both Agbaji and Terence Davis They literally could not be any further from one another as players.

Agbaji is a legitimately good defender. For some reason half the court is being ignored here. Agbaji is above average on one side ofthe court - Banton is not.

A lot of words, but no response. If he wasn't a knucklehead, Davis would've been a passable bench 2. Fill the lanes in transition, run hard, hit open shots, and hold your own on D. That's pretty much what Agbaji profiles as right now even if he isn't exactly the same player. It's 2024, shuffling your feet fast isn't enough - Agbaji ain't OG out there.

Ah - so our young guys are to good to discuss

Banton is in his 3rd year, so not sure why a 4th year player is suddenly not being discussed.

If you were paying attention, you'd know the discussion was about the validity of end-of-bench guys putting up "empty" stats on a bad team. RJ and IQ are clearly in a different tier and not relevant to the discussion. Including them in the comparison is either facetiousness or ignorance - which is it?

Literally all of those guys, sans JFL, have shown more as players than Banton has.

Nwora at least can shoot and has shown to be capable as a scorer (just horrible defensively).
Agbaji is a plus defender
Dick is looking like an elite shooter
Porter has shown legit 2-way talent and is actually a very, very good playmaker for a big
JFL is the same level prospect as Banton - JFL had better G-League stats than Banton did

It is pretty ridiculous to lump in guys that have had some NBA success as the same level prospect as Banton. The fact two of those guys are lottery picks in the last 18 months puts them both miles ahead of Banton as a prospect (a player on his 3rd team in 3 years, actually 3rd in 8 months).

Nwora is the exact same player he's been for 4 years. I'd say the likelihood of Toronto saying goodbye after the season is high. Rag on Banton all you want, but Nwora plays 13 mpg on a bottom-of-the-barrel team with terrible shooting.

TD showed enough to make 2nd team All Rookie. What has Agbaji shown - that a rebuilding Jazz team only thought he was worth a portion of a very late FRP in a weak draft? I don't see how you don't get that Agbaji's high draft selection is actually an indictment of how far his stock has fallen at this point. Danny Ainge just hit the reset button on a cost-controlled player he drafted 2 years ago.

And G League stats? Who cares - you might as well dig up some AAU numbers.

Stopped reading when you said Banton does something as well as Barnes

He’s the best Dalano in league history.

Boom.

[basketballto]

If we found a player like Banton we would be extremely lucky. He would replace Brown at point, and take some time away from Gary, Agbaji. He gives a different look (fast look).

Guys like porter have shown they belong but they have a low ceiling. Agbaji has a role as a defense guard OG replacement. We still need a backup point guard.

The problem is Banton specifically couldn't work here because of his lifestyle and history. He liked to party here and go to local clubs where gangs from his past hang out. Jealousy turns to money demand, threats. It was distracting him and he wasn't focused. He looks focused now and that could happen here.