Gary Trent Jr. - Fair Contract Offer?

[TheGeneral99]

3 years, 48m.

[Johnny Bball]

Who is the comparable player who got paid significantly more than that?

Right over your head.

Not to mention I'm sure the Raptors have fielded offers for him and got no real offers. Teams aren't throwing around money stupidly as much with the new cap structure.

Im not a fan of Trent so thats why i said 15M per season but i cant see him getting more than 17.5M per season.

Yeah, anyone can see the slant there. No need to say it.

[YogurtProducer]

Is that supposed to be a bad thing? He has shown he can actually play with superstars and be effective, Trent hasn't.

So since Grayson gets to play with stars and GTJ doesn't we just automatically say Grayson > Trent?

Trent is literally #1 in the NBA in wide open 3pt%. His efficiency would be off the roof hitting open shots from KD Booker and Beal allday.

An incredibly noisy stat that means nothing. He also shoots only 31% on "open" shots with 4-6 ft of space, but better than Steph Curry with 6+ ft of space.

So GTJ shooting well on wide open 3's is noise, but Grayson Allen with a 68TS% beside 3 elite offensive pieces is sustainable. Okay buddy

[brownbobcat]

So GTJ shooting well on wide open 3's is noise, but Grayson Allen with a 68TS% beside 3 elite offensive pieces is sustainable. Okay buddy

You wanna show me where I said it was sustainable?

Grayson Allen has demonstrated he's a great shooter throughout his career regardless of the team. 68 TS% good without KD? No, of course not.

Could GTJ hit similar efficiency if he only took spot up jumpers like Allen? It's possible, but the problem is he's not shown any recent ability to do anything else good enough be a role-playing starter like Allen.

Allen's having a great year as a starter on a good team that can't afford to let him go.
GTJ's having a down year as a bench player on a bad team where he doesn't make a big difference.

I don't see why anyone would be confused as to who's going to get paid more.

[Thaddy]

Do his open shot stats remain consistent when he's coming off the bench? He's our weakest starter and we aren't a playoff team. He needs to be a smarter defensive player. Then there's the shaky ball handling he hasn't improved on in several years.

If we replace Trent with a combo guard like Monk we would be a lot better. This is the type of player we should look for to fill this hole. A combo guard would be a movement shooter, creates his own shot, handles the ball and looks for others, and can effectively isolate and make his own looks from mid range and three. Disregarding the other side, defense, that is already sounding better than what Trent does.

[YogurtProducer]

Do his open shot stats remain consistent when he's coming off the bench? He's our weakest starter and we aren't a playoff team. He needs to be a smarter defensive player. Then there's the shaky ball handling he hasn't improved on in several years.

If we replace Trent with a combo guard like Monk we would be a lot better. This is the type of player we should look for to fill this hole. A combo guard would be a movement shooter, creates his own shot, handles the ball and looks for others, and can effectively isolate and make his own looks from mid range and three. Disregarding the other side, defense, that is already sounding better than what Trent does.

You just described IQ. Monk and IQ 100% are horrible fits.

GTJ gets to bad a rap defensively as well. He is no lock down guy but he is not a liability (like Monk)

[tecumseh18]

3 years, 48m.

As long as we're minimizing the first year, so with 8% raises it will be something like 15-16-17 million over three seasons.

I suppose I could live with that. I don't particularly like Gary, and would rather have the cap space - assuming Masai and Bobby have received positive noises from agents that we'd be able to use it on our targeted players. But it preserves Gary as a non-toxic, tradeable asset.

[Tom_Foolery]

You guys are praying to re-signed Gary only to complain for the next 3 years on trading him.

Comical.

[ConSarnit]

So GTJ shooting well on wide open 3's is noise, but Grayson Allen with a 68TS% beside 3 elite offensive pieces is sustainable. Okay buddy

You wanna show me where I said it was sustainable?

Grayson Allen has demonstrated he's a great shooter throughout his career regardless of the team. 68 TS% good without KD? No, of course not.

Could GTJ hit similar efficiency if he only took spot up jumpers like Allen? It's possible, but the problem is he's not shown any recent ability to do anything else good enough be a role-playing starter like Allen.

Allen's having a great year as a starter on a good team that can't afford to let him go.
GTJ's having a down year as a bench player on a bad team where he doesn't make a big difference.

I don't see why anyone would be confused as to who's going to get paid more.

What else does Allen do good enough that makes him a clear cut starter that Trent does not?

Neither get to the line, neither create for others, neither are good rebounders. Nearly 66% of Allen’s fga are 3’s which indicate he can’t really do anything other than shoot 3’s. Allen is assisted on a higher % of both his 3pa and 2pa. Allen is even more of a 3+D type player than Trent and I’d argue he’s a worse defender than Trent (Allen has been played off the floor in multiple playoff series).

Allen might be a slightly better passer and rebounder than Trent but he’s probably a worse defender, something that has really shown up in the playoffs. I can’t see any reason why anyone would want to pay Allen more, especially if teams target him in the playoffs and he’s a disaster on defense (again).

[PushDaRock]

Theres also a massive difference between playing next to KD Booker and Beal and whatever GTJ plays with

Is that supposed to be a bad thing? He has shown he can actually play with superstars and be effective, Trent hasn't.

So since Grayson gets to play with stars and GTJ doesn't we just automatically say Grayson > Trent?

Trent is literally #1 in the NBA in wide open 3pt%. His efficiency would be off the roof hitting open shots from KD Booker and Beal allday.

Well, no 2 players are ever really in the exact same situation so a lot of comparisons often are not accurate or fair.

Maybe Trent would be extremely efficient on the Suns but he hasn't done it. Allen has the track record of efficiency over multiple years and multiple teams and Trent doesn't. Like I said before, if all players played within themselves and to their strengths, everyone would be way more efficient but that's not reality and it's a skill to be a star in your role and sticking to your strengths.

[ForeverTFC]

You guys are praying to re-signed Gary only to complain for the next 3 years on trading him.

Comical.

$20m contracts are valuable in the NBA.

[Tom_Foolery]

You guys are praying to re-signed Gary only to complain for the next 3 years on trading him.

Comical.

$20m contracts are valuable in the NBA.

If we couldn't flip him at $18m, what makes you think $20m makes him more valuable?

[ForeverTFC]

You guys are praying to re-signed Gary only to complain for the next 3 years on trading him.

Comical.

$20m contracts are valuable in the NBA.

If we couldn't flip him at $18m, what makes you think $20m makes him more valuable?

I’m sure they could flip him if they wanted to.

We’re a rebuilding team without an impending cap crunch who needs a 3 point shooter in the starting lineup with limited options to fill that role. Gary’s fine for now and his contract gives us optionality. Other than arguing “he doesn’t deserve it”, I’m not sure what the argument is for letting him walk even if it’s an overpay.

[Syd-TK3]

Just give him the same contract he got now

[agkagk]

Just give him the same contract he got now

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

His current deal plus inflation.

Aka about 20 per


Hes a young ufa. Hes an elite 3 pt shooter with a high character and he’s kinda “toolsie” - he still has that upside shine on him.

4 and 80 is my guess.

[islandboy53]

So GTJ shooting well on wide open 3's is noise, but Grayson Allen with a 68TS% beside 3 elite offensive pieces is sustainable. Okay buddy

You wanna show me where I said it was sustainable?

Grayson Allen has demonstrated he's a great shooter throughout his career regardless of the team. 68 TS% good without KD? No, of course not.

Could GTJ hit similar efficiency if he only took spot up jumpers like Allen? It's possible, but the problem is he's not shown any recent ability to do anything else good enough be a role-playing starter like Allen.

Allen's having a great year as a starter on a good team that can't afford to let him go.
GTJ's having a down year as a bench player on a bad team where he doesn't make a big difference.

I don't see why anyone would be confused as to who's going to get paid more.

Allen will get more, no confusion there. The question remains, how much does Trent get? If GA gets $22 million, does GTJ get $19 million?

[brownbobcat]

So GTJ shooting well on wide open 3's is noise, but Grayson Allen with a 68TS% beside 3 elite offensive pieces is sustainable. Okay buddy

You wanna show me where I said it was sustainable?

Grayson Allen has demonstrated he's a great shooter throughout his career regardless of the team. 68 TS% good without KD? No, of course not.

Could GTJ hit similar efficiency if he only took spot up jumpers like Allen? It's possible, but the problem is he's not shown any recent ability to do anything else good enough be a role-playing starter like Allen.

Allen's having a great year as a starter on a good team that can't afford to let him go.
GTJ's having a down year as a bench player on a bad team where he doesn't make a big difference.

I don't see why anyone would be confused as to who's going to get paid more.

Allen will get more, no confusion there. The question remains, how much does Trent get? If GA gets $22 million, does GTJ get $19 million?

Free agency has become very much feast or famine - well, they're still millionaires, but you know what I mean. It's not a sliding scale.

As a market, free agency is very illiquid and not every team is able to offer every player the same amount. And when the money dries up, some players are left holding the bag. Malik Monk only got a min contract with LA vs. GTJ's $50M deal 3 years ago, and is still only getting $9M/yr. Malik Beasley makes the min while Huerter makes $16M+/yr. Schroder went from turning down $84M extension to the min and then MLE.

Perception and "potential" are also very significant factors. DLO is pretty much the same player he always was, but goes from the max to a huge pay cut and now possibly getting a raise again.

It's possible that GTJ gets a big contract - it only takes 1 team to value him highly. However, my personal view is that he's been trending the wrong way the past 3 years. He's lost a lot of that "potential" sheen and neither shown an ability to be an impact scorer nor being a "glue guy" starter who does the dirty work. He can hit shots decently and that's basically it - that screams bench player money to me, and I don't see a lot of those guys getting significantly more than MLE.

[brownbobcat]

What else does Allen do good enough that makes him a clear cut starter that Trent does not?

Neither get to the line, neither create for others, neither are good rebounders. Nearly 66% of Allen’s fga are 3’s which indicate he can’t really do anything other than shoot 3’s. Allen is assisted on a higher % of both his 3pa and 2pa. Allen is even more of a 3+D type player than Trent and I’d argue he’s a worse defender than Trent (Allen has been played off the floor in multiple playoff series).

Allen might be a slightly better passer and rebounder than Trent but he’s probably a worse defender, something that has really shown up in the playoffs. I can’t see any reason why anyone would want to pay Allen more, especially if teams target him in the playoffs and he’s a disaster on defense (again).

It's simple, GTJ's best skill is finishing a possession as a spot up shooter and can't do much of anything else to help impact scorers. Of course he's going to take more unassisted shots, but he's not especially good at making them so it's moot. Allen takes the kinds of shots he's supposed to take playing beside Booker and KD.

Allen is a notably better rebounder (TRB%: 6.4% vs. 4.6%), draws more fouls, better ball handler, drives 38% more, passes 73% more, covers more ground defensively, switches better despite smaller (defends nearly twice as many FGA), much better DFG% (46% vs. 51.6%), screens more frequently and is much more physical - I don't understand how anybody could think GTJ is the better defender. Yes, Grayson (and Nurkic) are going to get targeted in the playoffs because they have the most exploitable flaws (size and speed, respectively) but the exact same thing would happen to GTJ.

[JB7]

Just give him the same contract he got now

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

His current deal plus inflation.

Aka about 20 per


Hes a young ufa. Hes an elite 3 pt shooter with a high character and he’s kinda “toolsie” - he still has that upside shine on him.

4 and 80 is my guess.

If the team wasn't prepared to extend him last year, and were actually fine with him walking last offseason, what about this season's performance makes you think the team would re-up him for the same money or more?

[JB7]

$20m contracts are valuable in the NBA.

If we couldn't flip him at $18m, what makes you think $20m makes him more valuable?

I’m sure they could flip him if they wanted to.

We’re a rebuilding team without an impending cap crunch who needs a 3 point shooter in the starting lineup with limited options to fill that role. Gary’s fine for now and his contract gives us optionality. Other than arguing “he doesn’t deserve it”, I’m not sure what the argument is for letting him walk even if it’s an overpay.

The team was prepared to let him walk for nothing last offseason. Clearly trading him was not going to return a great draft pick, and it most likely would have required the Raps taking back a bad contract.

Teams only value $20M contracts if they are expiring, and the team would have no problem letting the player walk, so they could dump a worse contract on another team. But in Gary's case, I imagine GMs wouldn't want to piss off Klutch by trading for their client who is 25, only to dump him and his bird rights, and leave him to get what he can get in FA.