PG: Wrecked

[TheGeneral99]

Breaking news: we are not tanking. We were 7th worst with a fully healthy team including OG and Pascal. Quit the mental gymnastics. We tanked in Tampa when we were just 2 games back of the playoffs.

We are obviously tanking right now, lol.

[C_Money]

Trust the process. These are the times when you see who has the intestinal fortitude to see things through. Yeah it’s not going to be pretty but rebuilding never is

Sorry, it's not a rebuild, it's a stealth tank due to injuries. Only place for a tank. We will be good next year.

Well if we keep the pick this year we have no incentive to be bad again next year so we should be better but not sure how good we’ll be.

Even if we lose the pick I don’t see Masai wanting to have another season like this. We’re gunning for the play-in tournament next year no matter what.

[DelAbbot]

Sorry, it's not a rebuild, it's a stealth tank due to injuries. Only place for a tank. We will be good next year.

Well if we keep the pick this year we have no incentive to be bad again next year so we should be better but not sure how good we’ll be.

Even if we lose the pick I don’t see Masai wanting to have another season like this. We’re gunning for the play-in tournament next year no matter what.

Masai wanted to make play-offs by trading for Poeltl, and we didn't make playoffs and he set this franchise back 2-3 years. He can repeat that mistake again in 2024/2025 and see what happens to his job

[ArthurVandelay]

Well if we keep the pick this year we have no incentive to be bad again next year so we should be better but not sure how good we’ll be.

Even if we lose the pick I don’t see Masai wanting to have another season like this. We’re gunning for the play-in tournament next year no matter what.

Masai wanted to make play-offs by trading for Poeltl, and we didn't make playoffs and he set this franchise back 2-3 years. He can repeat that mistake again in 2024/2025 and see what happens to his job

Personally I disagree with this…with one exception, if they won the lottery and drafted Wemby.

I had Dick 5th on my draft board. I think even though they picked 13, they have one of the better players from that draft (time will tell) so Poeltl didn’t impact the outcome of the 2023 pick (I can’t emphasize enough this is my opinion).

If they lose the pick this year, yeah, that is a wasted season from a draft pick perspective, but that is one year. That will be a tough pill to swallow.

But none of us know what happens with next year pick or if Poeltl is traded. I don’t see Masai tanking next year or trading Poeltl. I hope I’m wrong.

So long story short: if they get in the lottery this year and trade Poeltl before next season (ie play a season focused on player development starting KO), they are right on schedule. If they miss the lottery this year, they are behind a season from a lottery pick perspective but they still have picks which means rookies coming into develop…but then again if a projected lottery pick drops and they select him with Pacers pick, is it really a loss then?

Anyways, time will tell all. I just can’t get behind the doom and gloom when the Raptors have an All-star, 2 young veterans, guys with upside in Dick and Agbaji, current picks, no bad contracts, and future picks.

[DelAbbot]

Even if we lose the pick I don’t see Masai wanting to have another season like this. We’re gunning for the play-in tournament next year no matter what.

Masai wanted to make play-offs by trading for Poeltl, and we didn't make playoffs and he set this franchise back 2-3 years. He can repeat that mistake again in 2024/2025 and see what happens to his job

Personally I disagree with this…with one exception, if they won the lottery and drafted Wemby.

I had Dick 5th on my draft board. I think even though they picked 13, they have one of the better players from that draft (time will tell) so Poeltl didn’t impact the outcome of the 2023 pick (I can’t emphasize enough this is my opinion).

If they lose the pick this year, yeah, that is a wasted season from a draft pick perspective, but that is one year. That will be a tough pill to swallow.

But none of us know what happens with next year pick or if Poeltl is traded. I don’t see Masai tanking next year or trading Poeltl. I hope I’m wrong.

So long story short: if they get in the lottery this year and trade Poeltl before next season (ie play a season focused on player development starting KO), they are right on schedule. If they miss the lottery this year, they are behind a season from a lottery pick perspective but they still have picks which means rookies coming into develop…but then again if a projected lottery pick drops and they select him with Pacers pick, is it really a loss then?

Anyways, time will tell all. I just can’t get behind the doom and gloom when the Raptors have an All-star, 2 young veterans, guys with upside in Dick and Agbaji, current picks, no bad contracts, and future picks.

We had 1 All-NBA, 1 All-Star, 1 DPOY candidate, 1 RoY and where did that get us?

This roster will not be able to get to 500 next year, with or without the 2024 FRP.

Masai is famous for prematurely declaring the end of rebuild - but the roster will show him he's wrong again if he chooses to compete next year

[islandboy53]

Anyways, time will tell all. I just can’t get behind the doom and gloom when the Raptors have an All-star, 2 young veterans, guys with upside in Dick and Agbaji, current picks, no bad contracts, and future picks.

Exactly. This team is trending upward. But for the injuries, you'd see it now. Next year, we'll continue developing the group we have, along with a couple of rookies and additions via free agency or trades, and use our flexibilty to add draft capital. Winning will be important, but secondary still to development and asset accumulation. Should be a fun season.

[islandboy53]

This roster will not be able to get to 500 next year, with or without the 2024 FRP.

It would be a shock if they did. What's your point?

Masai is famous for prematurely declaring the end of rebuild - but the roster will show him he's wrong again if he chooses to compete next year

Please share the examples of Masai "prematurely declaring the end of the rebuild" which made him famous. Next year will continue to have development and asset accumulation as the primary goals. That said, the roster is good enough to win some games, maybe enough for the play in, maybe not.

[ArthurVandelay]

Masai wanted to make play-offs by trading for Poeltl, and we didn't make playoffs and he set this franchise back 2-3 years. He can repeat that mistake again in 2024/2025 and see what happens to his job

Personally I disagree with this…with one exception, if they won the lottery and drafted Wemby.

I had Dick 5th on my draft board. I think even though they picked 13, they have one of the better players from that draft (time will tell) so Poeltl didn’t impact the outcome of the 2023 pick (I can’t emphasize enough this is my opinion).

If they lose the pick this year, yeah, that is a wasted season from a draft pick perspective, but that is one year. That will be a tough pill to swallow.

But none of us know what happens with next year pick or if Poeltl is traded. I don’t see Masai tanking next year or trading Poeltl. I hope I’m wrong.

So long story short: if they get in the lottery this year and trade Poeltl before next season (ie play a season focused on player development starting KO), they are right on schedule. If they miss the lottery this year, they are behind a season from a lottery pick perspective but they still have picks which means rookies coming into develop…but then again if a projected lottery pick drops and they select him with Pacers pick, is it really a loss then?

Anyways, time will tell all. I just can’t get behind the doom and gloom when the Raptors have an All-star, 2 young veterans, guys with upside in Dick and Agbaji, current picks, no bad contracts, and future picks.

We had 1 All-NBA, 1 All-Star, 1 DPOY candidate, 1 RoY and where did that get us?

This roster will not be able to get to 500 next year, with or without the 2024 FRP.

Masai is famous for prematurely declaring the end of rebuild - but the roster will show him he's wrong again if he chooses to compete next year

Last season the pieces didn’t fit and the dynamics of the team were dysfunctional and it was time to start over.

Very few teams rebuild in 1 season. Only current team to do it is Boston and that was because of the trade with the Nets that they only had to endure 1 25 win season while making playoffs 16 of last 17 years

It was time to reset and besides letting Fred walk for nothing, I think they did well in the cumulative return for OG and Siakam

[bballsparkin]

Gradey is balling and the team is losing. Can’t get any better than that tbh.

Just 1 prospect? Talk about lowered expectations

720's post is based in reality. Not much more the team can do at this point in time but to hope for ping pong luck on the lottery night and to work on some stuff during games. If nothing else, Lottery night should be fun. We might finally break Realgm that evening.

[DelAbbot]

Gradey is balling and the team is losing. Can’t get any better than that tbh.

Just 1 prospect? Talk about lowered expectations

720's post is based in reality. Not much more the team can do at this point in time but to hope for ping pong luck on the lottery night and to work on some stuff during games. If nothing else, Lottery night should be fun. We might finally break Realgm that evening.

Yes my point is the complainers of complainers want us to keep expectations low like 720 here and talk positively always.

I'll be ready for that evening with multiple devices in basement with cheerios and mountain dew

[bballsparkin]

Personally I disagree with this…with one exception, if they won the lottery and drafted Wemby.

I had Dick 5th on my draft board. I think even though they picked 13, they have one of the better players from that draft (time will tell) so Poeltl didn’t impact the outcome of the 2023 pick (I can’t emphasize enough this is my opinion).

If they lose the pick this year, yeah, that is a wasted season from a draft pick perspective, but that is one year. That will be a tough pill to swallow.

But none of us know what happens with next year pick or if Poeltl is traded. I don’t see Masai tanking next year or trading Poeltl. I hope I’m wrong.

So long story short: if they get in the lottery this year and trade Poeltl before next season (ie play a season focused on player development starting KO), they are right on schedule. If they miss the lottery this year, they are behind a season from a lottery pick perspective but they still have picks which means rookies coming into develop…but then again if a projected lottery pick drops and they select him with Pacers pick, is it really a loss then?

Anyways, time will tell all. I just can’t get behind the doom and gloom when the Raptors have an All-star, 2 young veterans, guys with upside in Dick and Agbaji, current picks, no bad contracts, and future picks.

I agree with all the doom and gloom being over the top. I can understanding those wanting people in the FO to be fired but the future does not look grim to me. I'd be more worried had we retained Pascal with the intent to re-sign him to his max term.

I like Poeltl and he might be more valuable than whomever is drafted 7-9th by the Spurs should the pick convey. To me the issue is more the timing of the acquisition being off. It is the reason we now have a season like this. I switched to the OKC vs Rockets game last night and was happy with that decision.

Hindsight I would rather have not done the trade and drafted Lively. A player who is comparable to Jakob but younger and with team control for the next many years. As the team would have had a worse record if the Purtle trade never happened. Then the pick situation would not be so up in the air this season.

Personally, I look forward to see how this draft and off-season is handled.

[DelAbbot]

The future does not look gloom as long as this FO keeps accumulating assets next season, and not do the equivalent of the Poeltl or Thad trade again in 2024/2025 - which I fear Masai will do if we keep 2024 FRP (and need to convey 2025 FRP).

[ConSarnit]

Well if we keep the pick this year we have no incentive to be bad again next year so we should be better but not sure how good we’ll be.

Even if we lose the pick I don’t see Masai wanting to have another season like this. We’re gunning for the play-in tournament next year no matter what.

Masai wanted to make play-offs by trading for Poeltl, and we didn't make playoffs and he set this franchise back 2-3 years. He can repeat that mistake again in 2024/2025 and see what happens to his job

All signs point to us not repeating the same mistake. We fired Nurse, a championship winning coach because he couldn’t develop players. We traded 2 of our top 3 players for young players + draft picks. I wouldn’t rule out some kind of free agent signing but it won’t be overly impactful because a) it never is with this team and b) the good free agents won’t actually come here. If this team is better next year it’s going to be on the back of internal improvement.

We should be taking solace in the fact that even though errors were made (largely the Poeltl trade) the front office seemingly acknowledged that error and pivoted by trading OG and Siakam. We didn’t double down by trading away future draft assets nor did we risk going to UFA with OG and Siakam. I don’t think we’ll embrace a full on tank next year but the moves we’ve made this year imply the front office has seen the light. The fact that we pivoted quickly should inspire some regained confidence in the front office as far as I’m concerned.

[DelAbbot]

Even if we lose the pick I don’t see Masai wanting to have another season like this. We’re gunning for the play-in tournament next year no matter what.

Masai wanted to make play-offs by trading for Poeltl, and we didn't make playoffs and he set this franchise back 2-3 years. He can repeat that mistake again in 2024/2025 and see what happens to his job

All signs point to us not repeating the same mistake. We fired Nurse, a championship winning coach because he couldn’t develop players. We traded 2 of our top 3 players for young players + draft picks. I wouldn’t rule out some kind of free agent signing but it won’t be overly impactful because a) it never is with this team and b) the good free agents won’t actually come here. If this team is better next year it’s going to be on the back of internal improvement.

We should be taking solace in the fact that even though errors were made (largely the Poeltl trade) the front office seemingly acknowledged that error and pivoted by trading OG and Siakam. We didn’t double down by trading away future draft assets nor did we risk going to UFA with OG and Siakam. I don’t think we’ll embrace a full on tank next year but the moves we’ve made this year imply the front office has seen the light. The fact that we pivoted quickly should inspire some regained confidence in the front office as far as I’m concerned.

Glad you feel that way. I don't. The trust is gone and some of the minor moves after the Siakam trade confirms my distrust.

[720]

Just 1 prospect? Talk about lowered expectations

720's post is based in reality. Not much more the team can do at this point in time but to hope for ping pong luck on the lottery night and to work on some stuff during games. If nothing else, Lottery night should be fun. We might finally break Realgm that evening.

Yes my point is the complainers of complainers want us to keep expectations low like 720 here and talk positively always.

I'll be ready for that evening with multiple devices in basement with cheerios and mountain dew

Bro del I’m not a team positive person dude wth. I’m also not a complainer of complainers those are team mediocre. Also I had a very similar argument in the Tampa tank season saying we aren’t doing enough (not trading Lowry, not sitting more of our guys, getting center depth when we didn’t need to, etc).

The way I see it, they started the tank late, most of the core are being sit out, they’re playing Gradey a lot of minutes. This is all we can expect given the situation. Catching Portland is impossible but we knew that for awhile now. We started too late.

[LastNameEver]

Haven't watched a game since Scottie and RJ left, i saw a bit of this one and that was hard to watch.

[Scase]

That Washington game might be the only winnable one for us. Brooklyn is on a B2B and away. Even if we lose every game from here, it still won't be good enough to catch Portland or Charlotte though. Pretty insane that we could end up with a 21 game losing streak and still not be a top 5 worst team.

Tank teams gotta wake up pretty early to catch that worm, we hit the snooze button until noon. Can't "compete" that way.

4th worst team last year was Charlotte and they won 27 games. Rockets and Spurs were tied for 2nd worst at 22 wins. This year is just a bit of an anomaly in getting a lot of extremely terrible teams. Winning 23 games should get you in the top 3 in a normal year and at least top 5.

Yeah that's a fair point, looks like for the most part 20-25 wins usually slots you around 4th worst. There's been a handful of years the last 10-15 years (not counting shortened seasons) with the bottom 3 being sub 20 wins. I wouldn't call it an outright anomaly, but definitely more the exception than the rule.

Either way, it usually takes more commitment than starting the tank with 3/4 of the season already done.

[2019nbachamps]

Breaking news: we are not tanking. We were 7th worst with a fully healthy team including OG and Pascal. Quit the mental gymnastics. We tanked in Tampa when we were just 2 games back of the playoffs.

We are obviously tanking right now, lol.

We’ve been 6th-7th worst all season.

[Johnny Bball]

Raptors have lost 12 straight and are 1-12 in their last 13.

Houston and FVV are 12-1 in their last 13.

[Pointgod]

Sorry, it's not a rebuild, it's a stealth tank due to injuries. Only place for a tank. We will be good next year.

Well if we keep the pick this year we have no incentive to be bad again next year so we should be better but not sure how good we’ll be.

Even if we lose the pick I don’t see Masai wanting to have another season like this. We’re gunning for the play-in tournament next year no matter what.

We can gun for the playin but we’ll need to make some roster changes if want to be a threat.