PG: Wrecked

[DreamTeam09]

Well if we keep the pick this year we have no incentive to be bad again next year so we should be better but not sure how good we’ll be.

Even if we lose the pick I don’t see Masai wanting to have another season like this. We’re gunning for the play-in tournament next year no matter what.

We can gun for the playin but we’ll need to make some roster changes if want to be a threat.

When ppl say "Masai will be gunning for the play-in" next year, what exactly do y'all mean...

I'm guessing the next sentence will be "some kind of win now trade or signing"

And my retort to that would be "what's a win now trade or signing look like going fwd"

I don't wanna hear about past trades like the Jakob deal which came under completely different pretences than what we are under now

Would trading for another core piece with in our current age group? Would that be a win now trade? And not asset accumulation as everyone likes to throw around. Would signing 25-26 yr old monk be a win now move ? Or would that just simply mean we signed a SG capable of getting downhill/hit 3s and avg 20 a night on good %s

The preconceived notions/catch phrases just doesn't lead to good discourse that's all.

[TorontoBarneys]

Even if we lose the pick I don’t see Masai wanting to have another season like this. We’re gunning for the play-in tournament next year no matter what.

We can gun for the playin but we’ll need to make some roster changes if want to be a threat.

When ppl say "Masai will be gunning for the play-in" next year, what exactly do y'all mean...

I'm guessing the next sentence will be "some kind of win now trade or signing"

And my retort to that would be "what's a win now trade or signing look like going fwd"

I don't wanna hear about past trades like the Jakob deal which came under completely different pretences than what we are under now

Would trading for another core piece with in our current age group? Would that be a win now trade? And not asset accumulation as everyone likes to throw around. Would signing 25-26 yr old monk be a win now move ? Or would that just simply mean we signed a SG capable of getting downhill/hit 3s and avg 20 a night on good %s

The preconceived notions/catch phrases just doesn't lead to good discourse that's all.

Sign Quickley to 110/4 and OG to 130/4

IQ/RJ/OG/Barnes/Poeltl

Dinosaur Championship time baby

[C_Money]

Even if we lose the pick I don’t see Masai wanting to have another season like this. We’re gunning for the play-in tournament next year no matter what.

We can gun for the playin but we’ll need to make some roster changes if want to be a threat.

When ppl say "Masai will be gunning for the play-in" next year, what exactly do y'all mean...

I'm guessing the next sentence will be "some kind of win now trade or signing"

And my retort to that would be "what's a win now trade or signing look like going fwd"

I don't wanna hear about past trades like the Jakob deal which came under completely different pretences than what we are under now

Would trading for another core piece with in our current age group? Would that be a win now trade? And not asset accumulation as everyone likes to throw around. Would signing 25-26 yr old monk be a win now move ? Or would that just simply mean we signed a SG capable of getting downhill/hit 3s and avg 20 a night on good %s

The preconceived notions/catch phrases just doesn't lead to good discourse that's all.

The Kelly Olynyk trade and extension is a sign of whats to come this summer IMO.

[C_Money]

We can gun for the playin but we’ll need to make some roster changes if want to be a threat.

When ppl say "Masai will be gunning for the play-in" next year, what exactly do y'all mean...

I'm guessing the next sentence will be "some kind of win now trade or signing"

And my retort to that would be "what's a win now trade or signing look like going fwd"

I don't wanna hear about past trades like the Jakob deal which came under completely different pretences than what we are under now

Would trading for another core piece with in our current age group? Would that be a win now trade? And not asset accumulation as everyone likes to throw around. Would signing 25-26 yr old monk be a win now move ? Or would that just simply mean we signed a SG capable of getting downhill/hit 3s and avg 20 a night on good %s

The preconceived notions/catch phrases just doesn't lead to good discourse that's all.

Sign Quickley to 110/4 and OG to 130/4

IQ/RJ/OG/Barnes/Poeltl

Dinosaur Championship time baby

We specifically traded OG so we didn’t have to offer him that ridiculous contract.

[TorontoBarneys]

When ppl say "Masai will be gunning for the play-in" next year, what exactly do y'all mean...

I'm guessing the next sentence will be "some kind of win now trade or signing"

And my retort to that would be "what's a win now trade or signing look like going fwd"

I don't wanna hear about past trades like the Jakob deal which came under completely different pretences than what we are under now

Would trading for another core piece with in our current age group? Would that be a win now trade? And not asset accumulation as everyone likes to throw around. Would signing 25-26 yr old monk be a win now move ? Or would that just simply mean we signed a SG capable of getting downhill/hit 3s and avg 20 a night on good %s

The preconceived notions/catch phrases just doesn't lead to good discourse that's all.

Sign Quickley to 110/4 and OG to 130/4

IQ/RJ/OG/Barnes/Poeltl

Dinosaur Championship time baby

We specifically traded OG so we didn’t have to offer him that ridiculous contract.

You drive a hard bargain.

128/4.

[Chandan]

We can gun for the playin but we’ll need to make some roster changes if want to be a threat.

When ppl say "Masai will be gunning for the play-in" next year, what exactly do y'all mean...

I'm guessing the next sentence will be "some kind of win now trade or signing"

And my retort to that would be "what's a win now trade or signing look like going fwd"

I don't wanna hear about past trades like the Jakob deal which came under completely different pretences than what we are under now

Would trading for another core piece with in our current age group? Would that be a win now trade? And not asset accumulation as everyone likes to throw around. Would signing 25-26 yr old monk be a win now move ? Or would that just simply mean we signed a SG capable of getting downhill/hit 3s and avg 20 a night on good %s

The preconceived notions/catch phrases just doesn't lead to good discourse that's all.

The Kelly Olynyk trade and extension is a sign of whats to come this summer IMO.

ever since landing in Toronto, kelly is shooting his 2nd lowest 3pt % since entering the league
I wonder if he's going to birch it.

[islandboy53]

Even if we lose the pick I don’t see Masai wanting to have another season like this. We’re gunning for the play-in tournament next year no matter what.

We can gun for the playin but we’ll need to make some roster changes if want to be a threat.

When ppl say "Masai will be gunning for the play-in" next year, what exactly do y'all mean...

I'm guessing the next sentence will be "some kind of win now trade or signing"

And my retort to that would be "what's a win now trade or signing look like going fwd"

I don't wanna hear about past trades like the Jakob deal which came under completely different pretences than what we are under now

Would trading for another core piece with in our current age group? Would that be a win now trade? And not asset accumulation as everyone likes to throw around. Would signing 25-26 yr old monk be a win now move ? Or would that just simply mean we signed a SG capable of getting downhill/hit 3s and avg 20 a night on good %s

The preconceived notions/catch phrases just doesn't lead to good discourse that's all.

Masai will not be "gunning for the play-in" next year. The primary focus will be on development and asset accumulation. The team may win enough to be in the play-in, it may not, but, while we won't be tanking, winning will be secondary.

[C_Money]

When ppl say "Masai will be gunning for the play-in" next year, what exactly do y'all mean...

I'm guessing the next sentence will be "some kind of win now trade or signing"

And my retort to that would be "what's a win now trade or signing look like going fwd"

I don't wanna hear about past trades like the Jakob deal which came under completely different pretences than what we are under now

Would trading for another core piece with in our current age group? Would that be a win now trade? And not asset accumulation as everyone likes to throw around. Would signing 25-26 yr old monk be a win now move ? Or would that just simply mean we signed a SG capable of getting downhill/hit 3s and avg 20 a night on good %s

The preconceived notions/catch phrases just doesn't lead to good discourse that's all.

The Kelly Olynyk trade and extension is a sign of whats to come this summer IMO.

ever since landing in Toronto, kelly is shooting his 2nd lowest 3pt % since entering the league
I wonder if he's going to birch it.

Yeah I think he’s a pretty frustrating player tbh.

[RoteSchroder]

GTJr is about the 6th best defender in Memphis's G-league line-up. Memphis' worst defender is probably a top 2 defender on this Raptors rotation.

Well considering Memphis was also without JJJ and still putting up better performances does kinda invalidate your point. At the end of the day a loss like this is inexcusable. If you’re an NBA team there needs to be basic things you expect, like effort. Thag doesn’t take defensive instincts or any skill to do. A 44 point loss at home should never happen no matter the circumstances. Tanking or not this was embarrassing

Maybe you can't read.

Oh yeah, the rest of the Memphis roster is pure crap defensively. Rotation players for games JJJ was injured:

(Defensive rating this year/last year)

Desmond Bane: 116/113
Bismack Biyombo: 115/114
Marcus Smart: 113/112
John Konchar: 112/109
Xavier Tillman: 110/111
Vince Williams Jr: 114/110
Luke Kennard: 118/115
Jacob Gilyard: 117/117
Ziaire Williams: 115/114
Scottie Pippen Jr: 113/112
Santi Aldama: 114/111
Jordan Goodwin: 111/115
Lamar Stevens: 108/113
Jake LaRavia: 114/116
Wenyen Gabriel: 113/113
Yuta Watanabe: 116/118
David Roddy: 117/117
DeJon Jarreau: 111
Matthew Hurt: 117
GG Jackson: 117
Trey Jemison: 116
Tosan Evbuomwan 122/121

Most of these Memphis players are journeymen who have a history of being ok defensively. It's not like they got to Memphis and suddenly became solid defenders due to coaching. Only Tosan has a reputation for being poor defensively.

Now look at some of the Raptors rotation:
Olynyk: 116(119 Utah)/115
Gary Trent Jr: 120/116
Bruce Brown: 120 (119 Indiana)/114
Nwora: 115 (120 Indiana)/119
Gradey Dick: 122
JFL: 121
Gueye: 115

Out of 22 rotation players, Memphis only had one person with a defensive rating of 119 or above in the last two years. Raptors have 6 players with 119+ and Olynyk/Nwora/Brown weren't even on the Raptors at the time.

[bballsparkin]

When ppl say "Masai will be gunning for the play-in" next year, what exactly do y'all mean...

I'm guessing the next sentence will be "some kind of win now trade or signing"

And my retort to that would be "what's a win now trade or signing look like going fwd"

I don't wanna hear about past trades like the Jakob deal which came under completely different pretences than what we are under now

Would trading for another core piece with in our current age group? Would that be a win now trade? And not asset accumulation as everyone likes to throw around. Would signing 25-26 yr old monk be a win now move ? Or would that just simply mean we signed a SG capable of getting downhill/hit 3s and avg 20 a night on good %s

The preconceived notions/catch phrases just doesn't lead to good discourse that's all.

The Kelly Olynyk trade and extension is a sign of whats to come this summer IMO.

Raising the ticket prices is all you need to see. Honestly it's not complicated. As long as Torontonians are willing to fork out these prices how can we sit here in good faith and not expect them to "push for play in" There's too much money at stake. Who ever leads the Toronto Raptors franchise must do so with this in mind.

[bballsparkin]

Masai will not be "gunning for the play-in" next year. The primary focus will be on development and asset accumulation. The team may win enough to be in the play-in, it may not, but, while we won't be tanking, winning will be secondary.

Semantics. If the pick does not convey this summer the team will either be l: gunning for play in, or ll: tanking to keep the 6th pick in a good draft.

[PushDaRock]

When ppl say "Masai will be gunning for the play-in" next year, what exactly do y'all mean...

I'm guessing the next sentence will be "some kind of win now trade or signing"

And my retort to that would be "what's a win now trade or signing look like going fwd"

I don't wanna hear about past trades like the Jakob deal which came under completely different pretences than what we are under now

Would trading for another core piece with in our current age group? Would that be a win now trade? And not asset accumulation as everyone likes to throw around. Would signing 25-26 yr old monk be a win now move ? Or would that just simply mean we signed a SG capable of getting downhill/hit 3s and avg 20 a night on good %s

The preconceived notions/catch phrases just doesn't lead to good discourse that's all.

The Kelly Olynyk trade and extension is a sign of whats to come this summer IMO.

ever since landing in Toronto, kelly is shooting his 2nd lowest 3pt % since entering the league
I wonder if he's going to birch it.

He was shooting 43% in Utah which was a career best and it was on low volume, this is probably just more regression to the mean. He's still 39% for the year.

[Johnny Bball]

Masai will not be "gunning for the play-in" next year. The primary focus will be on development and asset accumulation. The team may win enough to be in the play-in, it may not, but, while we won't be tanking, winning will be secondary.

Semantics. If the pick does not convey this summer the team will either be l: gunning for play in, or ll: tanking to keep the 6th pick in a good draft.

They will be firmly stuck in the middle waiting it out again. This team isn't bad and isn't good after a summer to add/delete.

[720]

We didn’t tank in the Chet year and the Wemby year so it wouldn’t shock me if they feel like they have enough young talented pieces (imo not enough blue prospects of which Scottie is the only one) and opt to not tank in the very stacked 2025 draft year. I would hate it but it wouldn’t surprise me at all.

[ArthurVandelay]

We didn’t tank in the Chet year and the Wemby year so it wouldn’t shock me if they feel like they have enough young talented pieces (imo not enough blue prospects of which Scottie is the only one) and opt to not tank in the very stacked 2025 draft year. I would hate it but it wouldn’t surprise me at all.

I think Dick is blue chip

HS POY
One and done
Kansas
His skills

[Pointgod]

Even if we lose the pick I don’t see Masai wanting to have another season like this. We’re gunning for the play-in tournament next year no matter what.

We can gun for the playin but we’ll need to make some roster changes if want to be a threat.

When ppl say "Masai will be gunning for the play-in" next year, what exactly do y'all mean...

I'm guessing the next sentence will be "some kind of win now trade or signing"

And my retort to that would be "what's a win now trade or signing look like going fwd"

I don't wanna hear about past trades like the Jakob deal which came under completely different pretences than what we are under now

Would trading for another core piece with in our current age group? Would that be a win now trade? And not asset accumulation as everyone likes to throw around. Would signing 25-26 yr old monk be a win now move ? Or would that just simply mean we signed a SG capable of getting downhill/hit 3s and avg 20 a night on good %s

The preconceived notions/catch phrases just doesn't lead to good discourse that's all.

I think he does more trades or brings in more guys like Kelly Olynyk. He probably believes he has his core and they just need some vets but he’s not going to make a big splash. More moves around the edges targeting complimentary/bench players. Thad Young, Garrett Temple, Olynyk are all guys who were brought in not based on talent but as a vet presence.

[islandboy53]

Masai will not be "gunning for the play-in" next year. The primary focus will be on development and asset accumulation. The team may win enough to be in the play-in, it may not, but, while we won't be tanking, winning will be secondary.

Semantics. If the pick does not convey this summer the team will either be l: gunning for play in, or ll: tanking to keep the 6th pick in a good draft.

Let's start by looking at the roster. Barnes, Barrett, IQ, Dick, Poeltl, Olynyk, Agbaji plus Trent if he returns, 2 rookies, whatever Brown brings back and an FA or 2 is too good to be a tanking team. How well they perform will depend on their summer growth, the quality and development of the rookies, the quality of any FA's, etc. Time will tell if they're good enough to get into play in range. And, of course, we fully expect players and coaches to be as competitive as they can, and maximize their results. If that's what you mean by "gunning for the play-in", then sure, I agree. However, I take that phrase to imply, as others have suggested, that the Raptors will somehow make moves at this early stage in the rebuild to add significant pieces to accelerate the process. That seems unlikely. We don't have the asset base, and we're just not ready. Progress will be more incremental next year and probably the year after.

[Johnny Bball]

We didn’t tank in the Chet year and the Wemby year so it wouldn’t shock me if they feel like they have enough young talented pieces (imo not enough blue prospects of which Scottie is the only one) and opt to not tank in the very stacked 2025 draft year. I would hate it but it wouldn’t surprise me at all.

Trading OG for actual young players and not picks far down the road was your first clue that they aren't planning a proper tank from the start, so of course you shouldn't be surprised.

[WaltFrazier]

Masai will not be "gunning for the play-in" next year. The primary focus will be on development and asset accumulation. The team may win enough to be in the play-in, it may not, but, while we won't be tanking, winning will be secondary.

Semantics. If the pick does not convey this summer the team will either be l: gunning for play in, or ll: tanking to keep the 6th pick in a good draft.

They will be firmly stuck in the middle waiting it out again. This team isn't bad and isn't good after a summer to add/delete.

And if everyone's healthy and playing since the Pascal trade, that's where they'd be right now, right? Scottie, Jak, RJ, IQ, Gary, Gradey, Kelly, Bruce Brown. That group plus whoever would not be on this losing streak. They'd be play-in quality but likely would have fallen short because of poor start.

So how could that group tank next year? Masai presumably will make small improvements, I don't see a big swing in the cards. Much too good for a lottery team. To tank, the FO would have to intentionally make the team worse. And how would that sit with Scottie, IQ, RJ, who've been on better teams, played in playoffs? Another year of wink wink losing would be very frustrating for them I'd imagine. And how would Masai sell the vision of another losing year to fans next media day?

[Johnny Bball]

Semantics. If the pick does not convey this summer the team will either be l: gunning for play in, or ll: tanking to keep the 6th pick in a good draft.

They will be firmly stuck in the middle waiting it out again. This team isn't bad and isn't good after a summer to add/delete.

And if everyone's healthy and playing since the Pascal trade, that's where they'd be right now, right? Scottie, Jak, RJ, IQ, Gary, Gradey, Kelly, Bruce Brown. That group plus whoever would not be on this losing streak. They'd be play-in quality but likely would have fallen short because of poor start.

So how could that group tank next year? Masai presumably will make small improvements, I don't see a big swing in the cards. Much too good for a lottery team. To tank, the FO would have to intentionally make the team worse. And how would that sit with Scottie, IQ, RJ, who've been on better teams, played in playoffs? Another year of wink wink losing would be very frustrating for them I'd imagine. And how would Masai sell the vision of another losing year to fans next media day?

Well this is it...

To tank, the FO would have to intentionally make the team worse. And how would that sit with Scottie, IQ, RJ, who've been on better teams, played in playoffs?

If there was no IQ or RJ, then sure, maybe you could. Does anyone suspect that's what will happen and they are being traded for picks and NOT players? And Poeltl is being traded for a pick? And the cap space then isn't being used as they watch Trent etc. leave?

You could do all that but you are going to have to deal with the fallout from Barnes. And I suspect that would be a trade demand. Does anyone really suspect he would watch them intentionally dismantle the team around him and intentionally make it far worse for years and just be fine with it? And then you have to ask, is that dismantled team after adding 2 or 3 picks to Barnes/Dick and other youth you keep this summer even actually worse than the Wizards/Pistons? Maybe. And it can't be one year that you just sign on for that, because you might not get lucky in the lottery the first time, its got to be a few years that you would be ready for it, and by then Barnes has an option to play out his deal if he chose to, or make his next deal very short, both effing the Raptors.

But sure.... some people are still going to keep asking for something that we know isn't going to happen (proper tank) because it can't.