OT: Other Toronto Sports teams

[SFour]

At least the Leafs are a winning team. The Raptors are one of the worst in the league.

Each team goes through rebuild cycles. The raptors are one of the most successful nba teams in the last 10 years we've been blessed with a lot of good basketball and a championship

don't use logic on here

[WaltFrazier]

I don't follow the Jays closely enough and it's only third game of the season. Nevertheless my hot take after watching a few innings today is they are dead in the water. No spark, no excitement, not enough offense, not nearly enough improvement this offseason. Shatkins must go, it's crazy that Ross Atkinson survived the playoff debacle last fall.

Unless of course they start a winning streak tomorrow.

[wegotthabeet]

The Raptors are not a major FA destination so have to build through the draft. The Leafs had to be bad for 4 years to get Matthews, Marner and Nylander. They have made some decent draft picks late in the 1st recently, like Knies and Easton Cowan, that should help soon. At least they were able to sign Tavares. No such level of player has signed with the Raptors.

The Tavares signing is what killed their flexibility. In hard stagnant cap environment it hurt them severely. Dubas left a huge mess to clean up and it can’t really start until Tavares is off the books or re-signed at a much lower rate.

COVID is what killed the Leafs flexibility. A once in a century event happened which froze the salary cap. Dubas and the Leafs in particular were impacted because they invested heavily in 4 players with the logical assumption the cap would smoothen things out. You can disagree with the Tavares signing (he's played pretty well to his contract all things considered). Now the choice to stick to the plan after COVID falls entirely on the Leafs management, that I agree.

The cap freezing literally is the difference between this Leafs team having 50 goal scorer Zack Hyman on the team at $5.5 million on the first line versus Michael Bunting (950K). And this is pretty unique to the NHL. The NBA salary cap kept going up during COVID and has a luxury tax. The NHL itself is raking in money - this isn't a case that the league is losing money at all. Management and Gary Bettman obviously want a lower salary cap so they can collect the profits. None of this was fair to the Leafs but that's life.

To put in perspective, the NHL salary cap has only moved $2 million since the Raptors championship parade in 2019, barely a Garrett Temple amount.

Yeah you’re right about Covid, but still it wasn’t a smart move at the timer. Spending that much cap on four forwards never made sense. They could’ve kept Hyman and Kadri or signed or traded for a true number one d man which they still don’t have.

To put it basketball terms the Leafs were in a similar position to OKC is in right now. They knew they would have to pay Matthews, Marner and Nylander so signing Tavares killed their flexibility either way. It just wasn’t a smart way to build a team. Paying a second line center superstar money meant all were all in on that core, but none of them play defense or goal. It was just bad roster construction and cap allocation all in one signing.

[Coco Costanza]

I don't follow the Jays closely enough and it's only third game of the season. Nevertheless my hot take after watching a few innings today is they are dead in the water. No spark, no excitement, not enough offense, not nearly enough improvement this offseason. Shatkins must go, it's crazy that Ross Atkinson survived the playoff debacle last fall.

Unless of course they start a winning streak tomorrow.

It's the third game of a 162 game season.

[Westside Gunn]

For now I would treat Toronto sports as entertainment. If you are willing to shell out a few hundred you will have a good time in the city.

It looks like a 2 years away from being 2 years away to begin that conversation about winning

MLS doesn't count....when I went to the TFC game it was the most bootleg experience ever.

For the Leafs, I maintain that its a good regular season team that chokes in the playoffs. And I see it happening this year as well. Matthews and the core is awesome but its going to be almost a decade with these guys without any material results. You can trade 1 or 2 of them.

[WaltFrazier]

I don't follow the Jays closely enough and it's only third game of the season. Nevertheless my hot take after watching a few innings today is they are dead in the water. No spark, no excitement, not enough offense, not nearly enough improvement this offseason. Shatkins must go, it's crazy that Ross Atkinson survived the playoff debacle last fall.

Unless of course they start a winning streak tomorrow.

It's the third game of a 162 game season.

I covered that in my first sentence. I'm making a prediction based on a brief impression

[C_Money]

Best thing to do with the Blue Jays is have zero expectations. They’re a decent team but definitely not contenders.

[LoveMyRaps]

Papi is the greatest goal scorer of all time.

Generational talent. It's an honor watching him every night.

[LoveMyRaps]

Best thing to do with the Blue Jays is have zero expectations. They’re a decent team but definitely not contenders.

Worse than last season IMO.

Not expecting them to even make the WC this season.

Shatkins will be gone in the off-season.

[LoveMyRaps]

I don't follow the Jays closely enough and it's only third game of the season. Nevertheless my hot take after watching a few innings today is they are dead in the water. No spark, no excitement, not enough offense, not nearly enough improvement this offseason. Shatkins must go, it's crazy that Ross Atkinson survived the playoff debacle last fall.

Unless of course they start a winning streak tomorrow.

It's the third game of a 162 game season.

Doesn't matter. Shatkins have an abysmal track record.
They shat the bed this off-season. No upgrades. I like the Turner signing and I'm content with the Yariel signing (mystery box). But they should've done a lot more.
Failed to land any big FA. Failed to trade for a star player.

Shatkins need to go.

[DelAbbot]

I don't follow the Jays closely enough and it's only third game of the season. Nevertheless my hot take after watching a few innings today is they are dead in the water. No spark, no excitement, not enough offense, not nearly enough improvement this offseason. Shatkins must go, it's crazy that Ross Atkinson survived the playoff debacle last fall.

Unless of course they start a winning streak tomorrow.

It's the third game of a 162 game season.

So? Everyone could see the offseason was abysmal and enough embarrassing playoff failures.

Atkins needs to be fired 1 year ago

[DelAbbot]

I don't follow the Jays closely enough and it's only third game of the season. Nevertheless my hot take after watching a few innings today is they are dead in the water. No spark, no excitement, not enough offense, not nearly enough improvement this offseason. Shatkins must go, it's crazy that Ross Atkinson survived the playoff debacle last fall.

Unless of course they start a winning streak tomorrow.

It's the third game of a 162 game season.

Doesn't matter. Shatkins have an abysmal track record.
They shat the bed this off-season. No upgrades. I like the Turner signing and I'm content with the Yariel signing (mystery box). But they should've done a lot more.
Failed to land any big FA. Failed to trade for a star player.

Shatkins need to go.

Fully agreed.

Now replace Shatkins with Bobsai

[Coco Costanza]

I don't follow the Jays closely enough and it's only third game of the season. Nevertheless my hot take after watching a few innings today is they are dead in the water. No spark, no excitement, not enough offense, not nearly enough improvement this offseason. Shatkins must go, it's crazy that Ross Atkinson survived the playoff debacle last fall.

Unless of course they start a winning streak tomorrow.

It's the third game of a 162 game season.

So? Everyone could see the offseason was abysmal and enough embarrassing playoff failures.

Atkins needs to be fired 1 year ago

So it's ridiculous to write the team off after three games. Hell, we likely won't know what this team is until July.

[Coco Costanza]

It's the third game of a 162 game season.

Doesn't matter. Shatkins have an abysmal track record.
They shat the bed this off-season. No upgrades. I like the Turner signing and I'm content with the Yariel signing (mystery box). But they should've done a lot more.
Failed to land any big FA. Failed to trade for a star player.

Shatkins need to go.

Fully agreed.

Now replace Shatkins with Bobsai

Bobby and Masai are worse.

[Raps in 4]

Doesn't matter. Shatkins have an abysmal track record.
They shat the bed this off-season. No upgrades. I like the Turner signing and I'm content with the Yariel signing (mystery box). But they should've done a lot more.
Failed to land any big FA. Failed to trade for a star player.

Shatkins need to go.

Fully agreed.

Now replace Shatkins with Bobsai

Bobby and Masai are worse.

You can hate on Masai, but this is downright disrespectful.

Shapiro has been the definition of mediocrity for his entire 25 year career. He's a joke. In a sport where literally anyone can fall ass backwards into a title, he's spent most of his career outside of the playoffs (in the worst division in baseball). He's done nothing but underachieve with the Jays, too (the Jays literally haven't won a single playoff game since we moved on from AA's core). He's one of the worst drafting/player development executives in baseball, which is literally the most important skill for a baseball executive to have. His trades/free agency game isn't nearly strong enough to compensate, especially when he has to manage a limited a payroll.

[Raps in 4]

I don't follow the Jays closely enough and it's only third game of the season. Nevertheless my hot take after watching a few innings today is they are dead in the water. No spark, no excitement, not enough offense, not nearly enough improvement this offseason. Shatkins must go, it's crazy that Ross Atkinson survived the playoff debacle last fall.

Unless of course they start a winning streak tomorrow.

It's the third game of a 162 game season.

So? Everyone could see the offseason was abysmal and enough embarrassing playoff failures.

Atkins needs to be fired 1 year ago

Shapiro needs to go. He calls all the shots. Atkins is just a mouthpiece, like Bobby.

He should never have been hired in the first place. He's a career underachiever. Cleveland fans (and fans of most fan bases) were trolling us so hard when we hired him. It was such an idiotic decision. But very on brand for Ed Rogers.

[Raps in 4]

I don't follow the Jays closely enough and it's only third game of the season. Nevertheless my hot take after watching a few innings today is they are dead in the water. No spark, no excitement, not enough offense, not nearly enough improvement this offseason. Shatkins must go, it's crazy that Ross Atkinson survived the playoff debacle last fall.

Unless of course they start a winning streak tomorrow.

We were one of the worst hitting teams last year.

So, what does our brilliant FO do in the off-season?

Do they go out and get a new hitting coach? No.

Do they go out and get any hitters? No.

So what did they do? Nothing. Literally, nothing.

Why would they so brazenly tank the season? Because they know their jobs are safe. The on-field performance doesn't matter to our turd of an owner. He cares about how much money he's able to milk from this miserable fan base. If he ever sells the team, there needs to be a parade.

[mieshpal]

At least the Leafs are a winning team. The Raptors are one of the worst in the league.

Each team goes through rebuild cycles. The raptors are one of the most successful nba teams in the last 10 years we've been blessed with a lot of good basketball and a championship

I am a big leafs fan, but don't compare winning in the modern era. Leafs have barely won anything meaningful.

Raps won the ship less than 5 years ago

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[mieshpal]

I predict the Raptors win another chip before the leafs or jays.

Also predict that people on this board will still be calling for Masai's head after they do it.

The Jays have built a top 5 pitching staff in all of MLB.

1. Berrios
2. Gausman
3. Bassitt
4. Kikuchi
5. Bowden Francis/Manoah/Yariel Rodriguez

Very good starting rotation, bullpen and defence. Offence is troubling. In recent years we've lost Semien, Teo, Gurriel, Chapman and Merrifield and replaced them with worse hitters. We are "hoping" that there will be bounce back seasons from Springer, Vlad, Kirk and Varsho. We are "hoping" there will be internal growth and development. The team isn't bad, they just aren't good enough.

Forget about last year. Remind me how many playoff games we've won in the Shatkins decade.

The Jays are a perfect example of nickle and diming the fans. That team should be droing everything in their power to acquire elite offense. Soto was right there for the taking and they didn't go after him strong. They added Turner as their big signing this off-season. Classic Jays.

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[DelAbbot]

It's the third game of a 162 game season.

So? Everyone could see the offseason was abysmal and enough embarrassing playoff failures.

Atkins needs to be fired 1 year ago

So it's ridiculous to write the team off after three games. Hell, we likely won't know what this team is until July.

Until July? Is this lineup not the same as last year (nearly)? Except everyone is one year closer to retirement.

Be a Bobsai about it and keep evaluating