Bobby Webster speaks about the core/future

[OAKLEY_2]

Are we resigning Gary? Also seems like all of you forgot the $23M Brown contract that can be moved for pieces.

Sent from my SM-S918W using RealGM mobile app

From the exit interviews if nothing else this is a happy starting 5 all things considered. When Bobby says they are 5 to 10 moves away that means the starting 5 is more less set. To me IQ is the cdntre pice not named Scottie and RJ is Robin to both Barnes and Quickley. There are big moves to be made with the 5 behind the starting 5 and they might draft three bodies. Walking from Gary is one of the "moves" and might appear to be on the Raptors as decision and as per Gary's comments. Ultimately it is Gary's choice to stay and Raptor's to pay. Or not. So they have two 20 mil decisions. New contract for Gary or one year deal for Brown. Or neither.

[YogurtProducer]

It’s funny how you can credit the spurs for a rebuild but not give our FO the time to execute a rebuild.

I'm crediting the Spurs for knowing when to rebuild. And more importantly attempting a full rebuild.

Our FO was years late to it, and is looking more like a retool at the moment. If the FO decides to further tear it down this off season by say, trading Jak for futures, then I will absolutely give them 2-4 years of runway. I don't have a problem with the FO rebuilding, I have an issue with their seeming unwillingness to do so.

You're making arguments up that don't exist.

Spurs actually were on a treadmill for a long time. We decided to rebuild far quicker than the Spurs did.

They also had no choice but to do a full rebuild.

Yeah I am not sure what fantasy land Scase is living in - but it is not reality.

After moving Kawhi they won 48 games and lost in the first round 4-3.

They then hung onto a 30 and 31 year old Demar thru 2021 and won 32, and 33 games in those seasons. They also has Dejounte Murray, Derrick White, Aldridge, Gay, Mills, etc. on those rosters.

It was not until the 2021-22 season (when Demar left in FA and they got a similar haul as we did for Siakam) that they finally traded Derrick White at the deadline (after adding vets like Richardson, McDermott, Thad, etc. in the off-seasoN0.

Then, in 2022-23 they finally bottomed out, and got Wemby.

So I am confused how the Spurs knew "when" to rebuild but the Raptors did not? We were MUCH quicker to blow up our team, who was younger (and better) than the Spurs were with their old cast-away crowd. They got bailed the **** out by winning that lottery, or else they would be looking at year 5 of winning 34 games or less with a very mediocre group of players.

[Los_29]

I'm crediting the Spurs for knowing when to rebuild. And more importantly attempting a full rebuild.

Our FO was years late to it, and is looking more like a retool at the moment. If the FO decides to further tear it down this off season by say, trading Jak for futures, then I will absolutely give them 2-4 years of runway. I don't have a problem with the FO rebuilding, I have an issue with their seeming unwillingness to do so.

You're making arguments up that don't exist.

Spurs actually were on a treadmill for a long time. We decided to rebuild far quicker than the Spurs did.

They also had no choice but to do a full rebuild.

Yeah I am not sure what fantasy land Scase is living in - but it is not reality.

After moving Kawhi they won 48 games and lost in the first round 4-3.

They then hung onto a 30 and 31 year old Demar thru 2021 and won 32, and 33 games in those seasons. They also has Dejounte Murray, Derrick White, Aldridge, Gay, Mills, etc. on those rosters.

It was not until the 2021-22 season (when Demar left in FA and they got a similar haul as we did for Siakam) that they finally traded Derrick White at the deadline (after adding vets like Richardson, McDermott, Thad, etc. in the off-seasoN0.

Then, in 2022-23 they finally bottomed out, and got Wemby.

So I am confused how the Spurs knew "when" to rebuild but the Raptors did not? We were MUCH quicker to blow up our team, who was younger (and better) than the Spurs were with their old cast-away crowd. They got bailed the **** out by winning that lottery, or else they would be looking at year 5 of winning 34 games or less with a very mediocre group of players.

Yeah I think they actually got a worse haul for Dejounte than we did for Pascal. I think one of the picks they got didn't convey and they didn't get any rotation players like we did in Brown. I do think Pascal is a better player but considering he was on an expiring and Dejounte wasn't, you'd think that the Spurs would have done a lot better.

It is pretty crazy to think the state the Spurs would be in now if they didn't win the lottery. Imagine them now with a guy like Amen Thompson. That is pretty grim. Sometimes luck can help people forget all the mistakes they've made.

[PushDaRock]

Spurs had a long run winning 5 championships with many players drafted themselves. Having a little dip post Kawhi trade would be perfectly acceptable to the fanbase after all that success and playoff runs. They pivoted towards a tank at the right time when a generational talent was available. Sure it required luck in the end but it was the right risk at the right time. Conversely Raptors traded picks away to desperately try and make the playoffs when they could have easily tanked given they were 6th worst at that time. I believe the relevant quote there was "How do you convince a champion to tank?"

This overall franchise comparison is just poor.

I'm not really understanding the right risk at the right time narrative for the Spurs. They were already an under .500 team for 3 years in a row before heading into last season, what pivot was there made?

They stunk with Dejounte and didn’t want to pay him the max. As good of a prospect Wemby is, no one decided to tank because of him. Even the Pistons added pieces to compete.

I think they would have paid him the extension he signed though if the new extension rules had kicked in a year earlier, it's really good value at 30m AAV.

[PushDaRock]

I'm crediting the Spurs for knowing when to rebuild. And more importantly attempting a full rebuild.

Our FO was years late to it, and is looking more like a retool at the moment. If the FO decides to further tear it down this off season by say, trading Jak for futures, then I will absolutely give them 2-4 years of runway. I don't have a problem with the FO rebuilding, I have an issue with their seeming unwillingness to do so.

You're making arguments up that don't exist.

Spurs actually were on a treadmill for a long time. We decided to rebuild far quicker than the Spurs did.

They also had no choice but to do a full rebuild.

Yeah I am not sure what fantasy land Scase is living in - but it is not reality.

After moving Kawhi they won 48 games and lost in the first round 4-3.

They then hung onto a 30 and 31 year old Demar thru 2021 and won 32, and 33 games in those seasons. They also has Dejounte Murray, Derrick White, Aldridge, Gay, Mills, etc. on those rosters.

It was not until the 2021-22 season (when Demar left in FA and they got a similar haul as we did for Siakam) that they finally traded Derrick White at the deadline (after adding vets like Richardson, McDermott, Thad, etc. in the off-seasoN0.

Then, in 2022-23 they finally bottomed out, and got Wemby.

So I am confused how the Spurs knew "when" to rebuild but the Raptors did not? We were MUCH quicker to blow up our team, who was younger (and better) than the Spurs were with their old cast-away crowd. They got bailed the **** out by winning that lottery, or else they would be looking at year 5 of winning 34 games or less with a very mediocre group of players.

lmao I guess the facts don't matter at all when you're trying to win an argument

If you want to point to actual quick pivots, some examples would be what Danny Ainge did in Boston/Utah and Presti in OKC. What the Spurs did would be the complete opposite, waiting till the last possible minute to pivot.

[Los_29]

Spurs actually were on a treadmill for a long time. We decided to rebuild far quicker than the Spurs did.

They also had no choice but to do a full rebuild.

Yeah I am not sure what fantasy land Scase is living in - but it is not reality.

After moving Kawhi they won 48 games and lost in the first round 4-3.

They then hung onto a 30 and 31 year old Demar thru 2021 and won 32, and 33 games in those seasons. They also has Dejounte Murray, Derrick White, Aldridge, Gay, Mills, etc. on those rosters.

It was not until the 2021-22 season (when Demar left in FA and they got a similar haul as we did for Siakam) that they finally traded Derrick White at the deadline (after adding vets like Richardson, McDermott, Thad, etc. in the off-seasoN0.

Then, in 2022-23 they finally bottomed out, and got Wemby.

So I am confused how the Spurs knew "when" to rebuild but the Raptors did not? We were MUCH quicker to blow up our team, who was younger (and better) than the Spurs were with their old cast-away crowd. They got bailed the **** out by winning that lottery, or else they would be looking at year 5 of winning 34 games or less with a very mediocre group of players.

lmao I guess the facts don't matter at all when you're trying to win an argument

If you want to point to actual quick pivots, some examples would be what Danny Ainge did in Boston/Utah and Presti in OKC. What the Spurs did would be the complete opposite, waiting till the last possible minute to pivot.

And was that even a quick pivot for Presti? They had Westbrook for the longest time after losing KD. They didn’t have much playoff success and nearly everyone knew Westbrook wasn’t good enough to lead a team. Yet, Presti kept him and a flawed team for what seemed like 3-4 years before gutting it.

[YogurtProducer]

Spurs actually were on a treadmill for a long time. We decided to rebuild far quicker than the Spurs did.

They also had no choice but to do a full rebuild.

Yeah I am not sure what fantasy land Scase is living in - but it is not reality.

After moving Kawhi they won 48 games and lost in the first round 4-3.

They then hung onto a 30 and 31 year old Demar thru 2021 and won 32, and 33 games in those seasons. They also has Dejounte Murray, Derrick White, Aldridge, Gay, Mills, etc. on those rosters.

It was not until the 2021-22 season (when Demar left in FA and they got a similar haul as we did for Siakam) that they finally traded Derrick White at the deadline (after adding vets like Richardson, McDermott, Thad, etc. in the off-seasoN0.

Then, in 2022-23 they finally bottomed out, and got Wemby.

So I am confused how the Spurs knew "when" to rebuild but the Raptors did not? We were MUCH quicker to blow up our team, who was younger (and better) than the Spurs were with their old cast-away crowd. They got bailed the **** out by winning that lottery, or else they would be looking at year 5 of winning 34 games or less with a very mediocre group of players.

lmao I guess the facts don't matter at all when you're trying to win an argument

If you want to point to actual quick pivots, some examples would be what Danny Ainge did in Boston/Utah and Presti in OKC. What the Spurs did would be the complete opposite, waiting till the last possible minute to pivot.

Guy puts on an absolute masterclass in gaslighting

Reality is that OKC and Boston/Utah are entire anomalies and almost always require a ton of context. All 3 of those rebuilds were kickstarted by getting INSANE overpays for players on their teams due to very difficult to replicate circumstances.

[PushDaRock]

Yeah I am not sure what fantasy land Scase is living in - but it is not reality.

After moving Kawhi they won 48 games and lost in the first round 4-3.

They then hung onto a 30 and 31 year old Demar thru 2021 and won 32, and 33 games in those seasons. They also has Dejounte Murray, Derrick White, Aldridge, Gay, Mills, etc. on those rosters.

It was not until the 2021-22 season (when Demar left in FA and they got a similar haul as we did for Siakam) that they finally traded Derrick White at the deadline (after adding vets like Richardson, McDermott, Thad, etc. in the off-seasoN0.

Then, in 2022-23 they finally bottomed out, and got Wemby.

So I am confused how the Spurs knew "when" to rebuild but the Raptors did not? We were MUCH quicker to blow up our team, who was younger (and better) than the Spurs were with their old cast-away crowd. They got bailed the **** out by winning that lottery, or else they would be looking at year 5 of winning 34 games or less with a very mediocre group of players.

lmao I guess the facts don't matter at all when you're trying to win an argument

If you want to point to actual quick pivots, some examples would be what Danny Ainge did in Boston/Utah and Presti in OKC. What the Spurs did would be the complete opposite, waiting till the last possible minute to pivot.

And was that even a quick pivot for Presti? They had Westbrook for the longest time after losing KD. They didn’t have much playoff success and nearly everyone knew Westbrook wasn’t good enough to lead a team. Yet, Presti kept him and a flawed team for what seemed like 3-4 years before gutting it.

The pivot I am referring to is the 19-20 season where they went 44-28 and then he sold off and got rid of their coach and 4 of their top 5 scorers and went tank mode for the next season.

[Scase]

lmao you clearly aren't trying to argue in good faith when you throw in Juancho as a notable player we added.

Juancho played 42 games and was putting up 14mpg, how is that not notable? He was added to the team in an attempt to shore up our pathetic 3pt shooting, we didn't draft or trade for a 20-22 year old prospect, we picked up a 27 year old journeyman. Thad and Juancho combined, played significantly more minutes than Tre did on the spurs.

We added old players, they added 20 year olds. How you don't see the massive difference between those 2, is baffling.

lmao Juancho signed a minimum deal and had to battle it out in camp just to make the team. If we are calling that a notable signing, is Malik Williams a notable signing too? He played over 15 mpg for us too.

Why did you list all the young players for the Spurs but ignored the old players they acquired/signed like Thad Young (33), Tyler Zeller (30), Rudy Gay (33), Marco Belinelli (33), Demarre Carroll (33)?

The Carroll signing in particular was a massive blunder. He signed a 3 year deal that they bought him out of after he played just 15 games for them.

It's just extremely odd how you make it seem like we are the only team that adds veterans when it's not the case at all as the Spurs added just as many if not more.

Because I was isolating the 2 "treadmill" years for both teams.

Rudy gay was signed while Kawhi was still on the team, this is irrelevant.
Thad young was a return for their S&T of DD, they didn't acquire him specifically, this is irrelevant. He also played 370min for them, and played 1700+ for us.
Zeller played 4 total minutes in 2 games for the Spurs and they waived him. How in the hell is that considered "significant"? This is irrelevant.
Belinelli was signed while Kawhi was still on the team, this is irrelevant.
Demarre Carroll played a grand total of 135min over 15 games and was waived before the deadline, the realized it was a mistake and got rid of him. He played virtually no minutes, this is insignificant.

So no, it's not the same situation as us. We signed players during our treadmill years, and gave them significant minutes. The spurs either acquired them as salary filler in trades, were acquired while kawhi was still on the team, which makes absolutely 100% sense, or they played virtually zero minutes.

The older players we signed played over 2600 minutes, with that vastly deflated due to OPJ being injured. They no doubt expected him to match the 1300ish minutes he played for GSW the year prior. So conservatively they ate up 2600 minutes, but realistically what was planned for was closer to 5000+.

The spurs on the other hand added older players during that 2 year span, who totalled up during their entire time with the spurs to about 500min. So 5x lower than our actual, and 10x lower than the likely planned amount.

Facts matter in arguments, you making facts up don't. 2 of your 5 listed players were on the team prior to the Kawhi trade, and the other 3 combined played less minutes than Juancho in one season. Again, how you don't see the massive difference is confusing. Maybe you should stop ignoring facts to try and win an argument?

[PushDaRock]

Juancho played 42 games and was putting up 14mpg, how is that not notable? He was added to the team in an attempt to shore up our pathetic 3pt shooting, we didn't draft or trade for a 20-22 year old prospect, we picked up a 27 year old journeyman. Thad and Juancho combined, played significantly more minutes than Tre did on the spurs.

We added old players, they added 20 year olds. How you don't see the massive difference between those 2, is baffling.

lmao Juancho signed a minimum deal and had to battle it out in camp just to make the team. If we are calling that a notable signing, is Malik Williams a notable signing too? He played over 15 mpg for us too.

Why did you list all the young players for the Spurs but ignored the old players they acquired/signed like Thad Young (33), Tyler Zeller (30), Rudy Gay (33), Marco Belinelli (33), Demarre Carroll (33)?

The Carroll signing in particular was a massive blunder. He signed a 3 year deal that they bought him out of after he played just 15 games for them.

It's just extremely odd how you make it seem like we are the only team that adds veterans when it's not the case at all as the Spurs added just as many if not more.

Because I was isolating the 2 "treadmill" years for both teams.

Rudy gay was signed while Kawhi was still on the team, this is irrelevant.
Thad young was a return for their S&T of DD, they didn't acquire him specifically, this is irrelevant. He also played 370min for them, and played 1700+ for us.
Zeller played 4 total minutes in 2 games for the Spurs and they waived him. How in the hell is that considered "significant"? This is irrelevant.
Belinelli was signed while Kawhi was still on the team, this is irrelevant.
Demarre Carroll played a grand total of 135min over 15 games and was waived before the deadline, the realized it was a mistake and got rid of him. He played virtually no minutes, this is insignificant.

So no, it's not the same situation as us. We signed players during our treadmill years, and gave them significant minutes. The spurs either acquired them as salary filler in trades, were acquired while kawhi was still on the team, which makes absolutely 100% sense, or they played virtually zero minutes.

The older players we signed played over 2600 minutes, with that vastly deflated due to OPJ being injured. They no doubt expected him to match the 1300ish minutes he played for GSW the year prior. So conservatively they ate up 2600 minutes, but realistically what was planned for was closer to 5000+.

The spurs on the other hand added older players during that 2 year span, who totalled up during their entire time with the spurs to about 500min. So 5x lower than our actual, and 10x lower than the likely planned amount.

Facts matter in arguments, you making facts up don't. 2 of your 5 listed players were on the team prior to the Kawhi trade, and the other 3 combined played less minutes than Juancho in one season. Again, how you don't see the massive difference is confusing. Maybe you should stop ignoring facts to try and win an argument?

lmao, so the Raptors paying Juancho on a minimum deal is significant but the Spurs paying Carroll 20m+ to play 15 games is insignificant? Which do you think was the bigger mistake?

Belinelli signed a 2 year deal after Kawhi left. Check your facts.

Why wouldn't you count Rudy Gay as being relevant? They signed him to 1 year deal in 2017, signed him to another 1 year deal in 2018 and then re-signed him in 2019 to a 2 year deal for 32 million. That's 16m a year for someone 32 years old. Why are you only counting old players that get newly signed and not re-signed? How is it not relevant that they chose to bring Rudy Gay back when they didn't have to?

lmao you are cherry picking the most irrelevant stat to try and win an argument. Why does it matter that the players have to be newly signed to fit your narrative? Why don't you go over both rosters and then evaluate how much playing time the older players got? 19-20 season you can see that roster had Demar, LMA, Mills, Gay and Belinelli all over 30 who played rotation minutes and they totaled 7899 minutes. Now, compare that to our roster in 21-22 which had Young and Dragic as the only guys over 30 who played a total of 565 minutes. Let's add in Boucher and Birch who were 28/29 just to even things out some more and get an additional 2681 minutes played which is still significantly less than how much the Spurs were playing their older guys.

So, my question is if the Spurs were tanking these years, why were their veterans playing so many minutes?

[Scase]

lmao Juancho signed a minimum deal and had to battle it out in camp just to make the team. If we are calling that a notable signing, is Malik Williams a notable signing too? He played over 15 mpg for us too.

Why did you list all the young players for the Spurs but ignored the old players they acquired/signed like Thad Young (33), Tyler Zeller (30), Rudy Gay (33), Marco Belinelli (33), Demarre Carroll (33)?

The Carroll signing in particular was a massive blunder. He signed a 3 year deal that they bought him out of after he played just 15 games for them.

It's just extremely odd how you make it seem like we are the only team that adds veterans when it's not the case at all as the Spurs added just as many if not more.

Because I was isolating the 2 "treadmill" years for both teams.

Rudy gay was signed while Kawhi was still on the team, this is irrelevant.
Thad young was a return for their S&T of DD, they didn't acquire him specifically, this is irrelevant. He also played 370min for them, and played 1700+ for us.
Zeller played 4 total minutes in 2 games for the Spurs and they waived him. How in the hell is that considered "significant"? This is irrelevant.
Belinelli was signed while Kawhi was still on the team, this is irrelevant.
Demarre Carroll played a grand total of 135min over 15 games and was waived before the deadline, the realized it was a mistake and got rid of him. He played virtually no minutes, this is insignificant.

So no, it's not the same situation as us. We signed players during our treadmill years, and gave them significant minutes. The spurs either acquired them as salary filler in trades, were acquired while kawhi was still on the team, which makes absolutely 100% sense, or they played virtually zero minutes.

The older players we signed played over 2600 minutes, with that vastly deflated due to OPJ being injured. They no doubt expected him to match the 1300ish minutes he played for GSW the year prior. So conservatively they ate up 2600 minutes, but realistically what was planned for was closer to 5000+.

The spurs on the other hand added older players during that 2 year span, who totalled up during their entire time with the spurs to about 500min. So 5x lower than our actual, and 10x lower than the likely planned amount.

Facts matter in arguments, you making facts up don't. 2 of your 5 listed players were on the team prior to the Kawhi trade, and the other 3 combined played less minutes than Juancho in one season. Again, how you don't see the massive difference is confusing. Maybe you should stop ignoring facts to try and win an argument?

lmao, so the Raptors paying Juancho on a minimum deal is significant but the Spurs paying Carroll 20m+ to play 15 games is insignificant? Which do you think was the bigger mistake?

Belinelli signed a 2 year deal after Kawhi left. Check your facts.

Why wouldn't you count Rudy Gay as being relevant? They signed him to 1 year deal in 2017, signed him to another 1 year deal in 2018 and then re-signed him in 2019 to a 2 year deal for 32 million. That's 16m a year for someone 32 years old. Why are you only counting old players that get newly signed and not re-signed? How is it not relevant that they chose to bring Rudy Gay back when they didn't have to?

lmao you are cherry picking the most irrelevant stat to try and win an argument. Why does it matter that the players have to be newly signed to fit your narrative? Why don't you go over both rosters and then evaluate how much playing time the older players got? 19-20 season you can see that roster had Demar, LMA, Mills, Gay and Belinelli all over 30 who played rotation minutes and they totaled 7899 minutes. Now, compare that to our roster in 21-22 which had Young and Dragic as the only guys over 30 who played a total of 565 minutes. Let's add in Boucher and Birch who were 28/29 just to even things out some more and get an additional 2681 minutes played which is still significantly less than how much the Spurs were playing their older guys.

So, my question is if the Spurs were tanking these years, why were their veterans playing so many minutes?

See, there is your problem. You're arguing something that was never stated. Hell I even cleared that up in my last post.

Because I was isolating the 2 "treadmill" years for both teams.

I never said those were tanking years. All I was saying is that during their treadmilling years they focused on acquiring young players, and giving them minutes. So that when they did tank, they have a foundation.

We acquired older players during our treadmill years, and gave them substantial playing time, instead of acquiring younger players. Now when we tank, we are lacking our own pick and lack the flexibility that they have.

You're getting worked up about something I never said.

[PushDaRock]

Because I was isolating the 2 "treadmill" years for both teams.

Rudy gay was signed while Kawhi was still on the team, this is irrelevant.
Thad young was a return for their S&T of DD, they didn't acquire him specifically, this is irrelevant. He also played 370min for them, and played 1700+ for us.
Zeller played 4 total minutes in 2 games for the Spurs and they waived him. How in the hell is that considered "significant"? This is irrelevant.
Belinelli was signed while Kawhi was still on the team, this is irrelevant.
Demarre Carroll played a grand total of 135min over 15 games and was waived before the deadline, the realized it was a mistake and got rid of him. He played virtually no minutes, this is insignificant.

So no, it's not the same situation as us. We signed players during our treadmill years, and gave them significant minutes. The spurs either acquired them as salary filler in trades, were acquired while kawhi was still on the team, which makes absolutely 100% sense, or they played virtually zero minutes.

The older players we signed played over 2600 minutes, with that vastly deflated due to OPJ being injured. They no doubt expected him to match the 1300ish minutes he played for GSW the year prior. So conservatively they ate up 2600 minutes, but realistically what was planned for was closer to 5000+.

The spurs on the other hand added older players during that 2 year span, who totalled up during their entire time with the spurs to about 500min. So 5x lower than our actual, and 10x lower than the likely planned amount.

Facts matter in arguments, you making facts up don't. 2 of your 5 listed players were on the team prior to the Kawhi trade, and the other 3 combined played less minutes than Juancho in one season. Again, how you don't see the massive difference is confusing. Maybe you should stop ignoring facts to try and win an argument?

lmao, so the Raptors paying Juancho on a minimum deal is significant but the Spurs paying Carroll 20m+ to play 15 games is insignificant? Which do you think was the bigger mistake?

Belinelli signed a 2 year deal after Kawhi left. Check your facts.

Why wouldn't you count Rudy Gay as being relevant? They signed him to 1 year deal in 2017, signed him to another 1 year deal in 2018 and then re-signed him in 2019 to a 2 year deal for 32 million. That's 16m a year for someone 32 years old. Why are you only counting old players that get newly signed and not re-signed? How is it not relevant that they chose to bring Rudy Gay back when they didn't have to?

lmao you are cherry picking the most irrelevant stat to try and win an argument. Why does it matter that the players have to be newly signed to fit your narrative? Why don't you go over both rosters and then evaluate how much playing time the older players got? 19-20 season you can see that roster had Demar, LMA, Mills, Gay and Belinelli all over 30 who played rotation minutes and they totaled 7899 minutes. Now, compare that to our roster in 21-22 which had Young and Dragic as the only guys over 30 who played a total of 565 minutes. Let's add in Boucher and Birch who were 28/29 just to even things out some more and get an additional 2681 minutes played which is still significantly less than how much the Spurs were playing their older guys.

So, my question is if the Spurs were tanking these years, why were their veterans playing so many minutes?

See, there is your problem. You're arguing something that was never stated. Hell I even cleared that up in my last post.

Because I was isolating the 2 "treadmill" years for both teams.

I never said those were tanking years. All I was saying is that during their treadmilling years they focused on acquiring young players, and giving them minutes. So that when they did tank, they have a foundation.

We acquired older players during our treadmill years, and gave them substantial playing time, instead of acquiring younger players. Now when we tank, we are lacking our own pick and lack the flexibility that they have.

You're getting worked up about something I never said.

Ignoring the wemby side of it, I would take their current state over ours, 10 times out of 10. They pivoted quicker than we did, and most importantly, they got very good value for all of the players they traded. Kawhi, Jak, Murray, they are set up very well for the future.

They won 48 games, then 2 sub .500 seasons in a row and blew it up. We won 48 games, then .500 record following season before blowing it up. lmao so how the hell did they pivot quicker than us? Why are you counting only our 48 win season as a treadmill year and not theirs?

[Scase]

lmao, so the Raptors paying Juancho on a minimum deal is significant but the Spurs paying Carroll 20m+ to play 15 games is insignificant? Which do you think was the bigger mistake?

Belinelli signed a 2 year deal after Kawhi left. Check your facts.

Why wouldn't you count Rudy Gay as being relevant? They signed him to 1 year deal in 2017, signed him to another 1 year deal in 2018 and then re-signed him in 2019 to a 2 year deal for 32 million. That's 16m a year for someone 32 years old. Why are you only counting old players that get newly signed and not re-signed? How is it not relevant that they chose to bring Rudy Gay back when they didn't have to?

lmao you are cherry picking the most irrelevant stat to try and win an argument. Why does it matter that the players have to be newly signed to fit your narrative? Why don't you go over both rosters and then evaluate how much playing time the older players got? 19-20 season you can see that roster had Demar, LMA, Mills, Gay and Belinelli all over 30 who played rotation minutes and they totaled 7899 minutes. Now, compare that to our roster in 21-22 which had Young and Dragic as the only guys over 30 who played a total of 565 minutes. Let's add in Boucher and Birch who were 28/29 just to even things out some more and get an additional 2681 minutes played which is still significantly less than how much the Spurs were playing their older guys.

So, my question is if the Spurs were tanking these years, why were their veterans playing so many minutes?

See, there is your problem. You're arguing something that was never stated. Hell I even cleared that up in my last post.

Because I was isolating the 2 "treadmill" years for both teams.

I never said those were tanking years. All I was saying is that during their treadmilling years they focused on acquiring young players, and giving them minutes. So that when they did tank, they have a foundation.

We acquired older players during our treadmill years, and gave them substantial playing time, instead of acquiring younger players. Now when we tank, we are lacking our own pick and lack the flexibility that they have.

You're getting worked up about something I never said.

Ignoring the wemby side of it, I would take their current state over ours, 10 times out of 10. They pivoted quicker than we did, and most importantly, they got very good value for all of the players they traded. Kawhi, Jak, Murray, they are set up very well for the future.

They won 48 games, then 2 sub .500 seasons in a row and blew it up. We won 48 games, then .500 record following season before blowing it up. lmao so how the hell did they pivot quicker than us? Why are you counting only our 48 win season as a treadmill year and not theirs?

Their 48 win year was with a very different looking team, so they took a shot, saw it didn't work and started inching towards a rebuild.

We ran it back with the exact same team + a very raw rookie. We had the same core for 3-4 years at that point and were gifted a top 4 pick, prime opportunity to start the rebuild. We opted to push forward again, with a core that anyone with half a brain could see was extremely limited. And then continued to double down by trading for Jak.

[PushDaRock]

See, there is your problem. You're arguing something that was never stated. Hell I even cleared that up in my last post.



I never said those were tanking years. All I was saying is that during their treadmilling years they focused on acquiring young players, and giving them minutes. So that when they did tank, they have a foundation.

We acquired older players during our treadmill years, and gave them substantial playing time, instead of acquiring younger players. Now when we tank, we are lacking our own pick and lack the flexibility that they have.

You're getting worked up about something I never said.

Ignoring the wemby side of it, I would take their current state over ours, 10 times out of 10. They pivoted quicker than we did, and most importantly, they got very good value for all of the players they traded. Kawhi, Jak, Murray, they are set up very well for the future.

They won 48 games, then 2 sub .500 seasons in a row and blew it up. We won 48 games, then .500 record following season before blowing it up. lmao so how the hell did they pivot quicker than us? Why are you counting only our 48 win season as a treadmill year and not theirs?

Their 48 win year was with a very different looking team, so they took a shot, saw it didn't work and started inching towards a rebuild.

We ran it back with the exact same team + a very raw rookie. We had the same core for 3-4 years at that point and were gifted a top 4 pick, prime opportunity to start the rebuild. We opted to push forward again, with a core that anyone with half a brain could see was extremely limited. And then continued to double down by trading for Jak.

lol now it's "started inching towards a rebuild", glad you finally acknowledge it now. We are good here.

[Scase]

They won 48 games, then 2 sub .500 seasons in a row and blew it up. We won 48 games, then .500 record following season before blowing it up. lmao so how the hell did they pivot quicker than us? Why are you counting only our 48 win season as a treadmill year and not theirs?

Their 48 win year was with a very different looking team, so they took a shot, saw it didn't work and started inching towards a rebuild.

We ran it back with the exact same team + a very raw rookie. We had the same core for 3-4 years at that point and were gifted a top 4 pick, prime opportunity to start the rebuild. We opted to push forward again, with a core that anyone with half a brain could see was extremely limited. And then continued to double down by trading for Jak.

lol now it's "started inching towards a rebuild", glad you finally acknowledge it now. We are good here.

You think this is a gotcha moment or something? I have laid out plainly multiple times those 2 years of theirs were treadmills. You're driving this entire thing in circles because you either can't or won't read basic sentences. Indeed, we are done here.

[PushDaRock]

Their 48 win year was with a very different looking team, so they took a shot, saw it didn't work and started inching towards a rebuild.

We ran it back with the exact same team + a very raw rookie. We had the same core for 3-4 years at that point and were gifted a top 4 pick, prime opportunity to start the rebuild. We opted to push forward again, with a core that anyone with half a brain could see was extremely limited. And then continued to double down by trading for Jak.

lol now it's "started inching towards a rebuild", glad you finally acknowledge it now. We are good here.

You think this is a gotcha moment or something? I have laid out plainly multiple times those 2 years of theirs were treadmills. You're driving this entire thing in circles because you either can't or won't read basic sentences. Indeed, we are done here.

It literally makes no sense to consider our 48 win team with a much younger core to be a treadmill while their 48 win team with a much older core somehow isn't.

[YogurtProducer]

lol now it's "started inching towards a rebuild", glad you finally acknowledge it now. We are good here.

You think this is a gotcha moment or something? I have laid out plainly multiple times those 2 years of theirs were treadmills. You're driving this entire thing in circles because you either can't or won't read basic sentences. Indeed, we are done here.

It literally makes no sense to consider our 48 win team with a much younger core to be a treadmill while their 48 win team with a much older core somehow isn't.

Not that you need more ammo but..

2018-19 Spurs most minutes - Demar / Aldridge / Forbes / Mills / Gay / Bellinelli / White / Bertans / Poeltl / Cunningham (Murray on team - just hurt)
2019-20 Spurs most minutes - Demar / Aldridge / Murray / White / Forbes / Gay / Lyles / Poeltl / Walker

So Scase claims that they took their shot (in 2019) and then inched towards a rebuild. What team "inches" towards a rebuild by bringing back their top 5 players, 7th, and 9th most played players? That to me sounds like minimal changes.

Okay fine. Lets look at the next year

Murray / Demar / Johnson / Poeltl / Mills / Walker / Gay / White / Vassell / Eubanks

So... two years after they "started rebuilding" they still had Demar, Poeltl, Mills, Gay (and Aldridge who would be top 10 but got hurt).

AND THEN - the next year they brough in Josh Richardson (28 years old), Doug McDermott (30 years old), Thad Young (33 years old), etc.

So man... Scase is just so far off base here.

the only players still on our team from 24 months ago is GTJ, Boucher, and Barnes. But SOMEHOW, we took forever to decide to rebuild and the Spurs did it immediately - am i right?

Edit - some people on this board just dont understand that no one (and i mean NO ONE) blows up a team like we had in 2022 coming off of 48 wins. Unless you get a godfather offer like OKC did for PG13, or Ainge did in UTA/BOS, you simply dont go trading away 26 year old guys who are about to be in their prime.

That team had 5 very solid players on their roster in FVV/GTJ/OG/Siakam/Barnes. A team that ended the season going 34-17 with no depth and no center. Pretty much any FO is going to try and make it work when you have a run like that when your oldest core member is 27 years old.

[disoblige]

We ran it back with the exact same team + a very raw rookie. We had the same core for 3-4 years at that point and were gifted a top 4 pick, prime opportunity to start the rebuild. We opted to push forward again, with a core that anyone with half a brain could see was extremely limited. And then continued to double down by trading for Jak.

Hindsight is 20/20. Complain in that year not this year. Many think rebuilding in that year was not possible because we were too good.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2243194

[YogurtProducer]

We ran it back with the exact same team + a very raw rookie. We had the same core for 3-4 years at that point and were gifted a top 4 pick, prime opportunity to start the rebuild. We opted to push forward again, with a core that anyone with half a brain could see was extremely limited. And then continued to double down by trading for Jak.

Hindsight is 20/20. Complain in that year not this year. Many think rebuilding in that year was not possible because we were too good.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2243194

Some posters are completely irrational when it comes to that era of the Raptors for some reason.

They suck, yet we should have gotten amazing trades for them?

[disoblige]

Some posters are completely irrational when it comes to that era of the Raptors for some reason.

They suck, yet we should have gotten amazing trades for them?

Probably, though other GMs were reportedly complaining that Masai was asking too much. I think he wants around three first-round picks for Siakam or OG. Other GMs hanged their phones.