PG: Tank season has concluded

[mtcan]

We were the 7th worst team in the league before our trades and injuries. But ok, let’s convince ourselves we tanked to make ourselves feel better.

We started the season with a core based around Scottie, Pascal and OG. Darko had a mandate to play Malachi Flynn and Precious Achiuwa actual NBA rotation minutes. Malachi shall never play more than 0 to 4 minutes a game in the NBA on an actual team. Pistons don't count...lol.

The OG trade shook the foundation of the team. That happened in late December but really more like January. Pascal was traded late January. That's a huge change. So the team was already having to change from an offence designed around Scottie, Pascal and OG to that of Scottie, RJ and Quick. Then came the trade deadline and in comes Ochai and Kelly.

So here we are having to integrate RJ, Quick, Bruce Brown (and everyone including Bruce thought he'd be gone at the deadline so he had one foot out the door), Nwora, Ochai and Kelly. 6 new guys in...that's a **** ton of change. Then Scottie and Jak get injured 3 weeks after the trade deadline.

There was NO point in time this season when you had any sense of stability...even at the start of the season when people were still wondering what we would do with OG and Pascal.

But ya...sure keep pointing at a record for a team that is obviously in flux all season long.

Give this current roster a full season before judging it properly.

You realize all these changes were due to poor management by our FO? Then when it was clear we weren't going anywhere and Scottie and Jakob got hurt, we excused our losing as tanking. This is a team that won 3-straight once all season and lost to the likes of the Pistons and other awful clubs. I feel sorry for you if you think a full season together will lead to a different outcome next year. We're probably 2-3 years away from making a jump, and that's assuming our FO get their act together and build a roster of 8-10 guys who belong in the NBA.

Rookie head coach...and yes he deserves a full season when we aren't literally turning over half the roster. And yes...half the roster and of that...5 guys that were rotation players at the start of the season...3 of which were starters playing huge minutes...2 of which were considered core pieces...all gone. And...the new guys only have less than a month together before the only other 2 starters from the start of the season went down with injuries that ended their season.

This was a team in transition since January. I'd say this team was in transition since last summer because trade rumours were swirling around the guys since last summer until they finally got traded.

Don't feel sorry for me. Feel sorry for yourself.

[mtcan]

Give this current roster a full season before judging it properly.

After the first 20 games of the season, the Raptors had a record of 9-11 for a 45% win percentage. Should they have continued to win at this rate, they would have made the play-in tournament as the #10 seed just ahead of the Hawks.

For the next 20 games of the season, the Raptors had a record of 6-14 for a 30% win percentage. Winning at this rate, they were on pace to have the 6th worst record in the league.

For the next 20 games of the season, the Raptors had a record of 7-13 for a 35% win percentage. Winning at this rate, they were on pace for the 8th worst record in the league.

For the last 22 games of the season, the Raptors had a record of 3-19 for a 13% win percentage. Winning at this rate, they were on pace for the worst record in the league.

While the lineups were in flux throughout the season, here's the roster of players we have signed or will most likely sign during the offseason (Quickley).

G - IQ, Dick, Brown
F - Scottie, RJ, McDaniels
C - Jakob, KO, Boucher

Assuming we do not re-sign GTJ, that's the core of our 9-man rotation next season.

Add the 2-3 picks from the draft this year and a couple of 2-year, 1-year and 2-way contracts to round out the roster, but that's the roster we're likely going to be putting on the floor barring any trades.

To make the play-in tournament, they'll need to win 45% to 50% of their games next season (37 to 41 wins) to end up as one of the bottom seeds.

Do you believe they'll win at least that many and make the play-in tournament or do you believe they won't and will end up with one of the ten worst records next season?

Here's the thing...I don't know. We are most certainly not 6th worst team in the league if we have Scottie and Jakob healthy and a full training camp to implement coach's schemes and everyone being used to playing with each other. I think we can agree on that.

I don't believe this upcoming draft changes our fortune dramatically even if we end up with the #1 pick, but you end up with a rotation player who will get minutes but learn while doing so. The top 5-10 pick that would start might be Alex Sarr who I could see starting at the 4 and sliding Scottie to the 3 because of his potential defensive impact.

My guess is that at best, we are in contention for the play-in. Best case scenario is that we are a first round playoff exit. If we are a first round playoff exit...we celebrate a year of progression and Darko's job is safe for one more season.

I think Darko has learned some lessons as a rookie head coach. I think Gradey will have at least as good a sophomore season as these last 3 months have been...but hopefully he is even better than that.

[Scase]

In the future, people may not ever remember that this team was actually trying to win games until the trade deadline. This was a bad team that got worse and is still hamstrung by a preposterous trade. It’s a long road ahead.

Which preposterous trade? If there was no tanking potion called the lotto the preposterous trade you might be referring to would already be a moot point. It is so NBA to use a gambling gimmick to further hurt markets that can never sign tier 1 free agents. It started with denying us the number 1 pick coming into the league, then the matter of refs continual harrassment and subsequent league fines or the espn national round table of shame and disinterest and this year two investigations including a civil lawsuit from someone who lawyers up to go the bathroom and now the league leaking investigation into a 10 day contractor we had just signed to a regular deal for gambling allegations. The reality is some just plain devalue Poetl as man of less conventional talents. For all we know the FO was hoping the Poetl acquisition might get Paskal to sign an extension. He, Fred and others knew they were hitting the open market long before it happened. The NBA open market architecture ensures teams outside the preferred status arrangement get put in their place. I do not begrudge the FO trying to use Poetl to get a home discount on Paskal. That the tactic failed is the real issue and the why it must tried in the first place.

The FO does not get to skate on the Poeltl trade because there is a lottery. They knew there was a lottery when they made that trade. Neither does the fact that the Raptors were denied the #1 overall pick in 1995 give this management group cover on the trade. Sheer speculation/imagination that Pascal might decide to stay here for a discount to join forces with Jakob Fricken Poeltl Is a remarkably stupid strategy for a FO to take, and you somehow think it’s justifiable? No way that was the reason. Way too many moving parts in free agency. And way too much putting your eggs in one basket. But based on your reasoning, you were probably thrilled with signing Landry Fields to that poison pill contract. 6-D chess! Lol
Management clearly thought this team was going to be a playoff contender when they made that trade. That is nobody else’s fault but theirs. You can’t excuse it. It’s a spectacular failure of judgment and it shouldn’t inspire confidence.

Mortgaging your teams future and grinding out meaningless wins in a draft year that has an actual generational talent, all to possibly re-sign Siakam.

For a god damn second banana. I have no idea how people defend this stuff.

[SharoneWright]

Which preposterous trade? If there was no tanking potion called the lotto the preposterous trade you might be referring to would already be a moot point. It is so NBA to use a gambling gimmick to further hurt markets that can never sign tier 1 free agents. It started with denying us the number 1 pick coming into the league, then the matter of refs continual harrassment and subsequent league fines or the espn national round table of shame and disinterest and this year two investigations including a civil lawsuit from someone who lawyers up to go the bathroom and now the league leaking investigation into a 10 day contractor we had just signed to a regular deal for gambling allegations. The reality is some just plain devalue Poetl as man of less conventional talents. For all we know the FO was hoping the Poetl acquisition might get Paskal to sign an extension. He, Fred and others knew they were hitting the open market long before it happened. The NBA open market architecture ensures teams outside the preferred status arrangement get put in their place. I do not begrudge the FO trying to use Poetl to get a home discount on Paskal. That the tactic failed is the real issue and the why it must tried in the first place.

The FO does not get to skate on the Poeltl trade because there is a lottery. They knew there was a lottery when they made that trade. Neither does the fact that the Raptors were denied the #1 overall pick in 1995 give this management group cover on the trade. Sheer speculation/imagination that Pascal might decide to stay here for a discount to join forces with Jakob Fricken Poeltl Is a remarkably stupid strategy for a FO to take, and you somehow think it’s justifiable? No way that was the reason. Way too many moving parts in free agency. And way too much putting your eggs in one basket. But based on your reasoning, you were probably thrilled with signing Landry Fields to that poison pill contract. 6-D chess! Lol
Management clearly thought this team was going to be a playoff contender when they made that trade. That is nobody else’s fault but theirs. You can’t excuse it. It’s a spectacular failure of judgment and it shouldn’t inspire confidence.

Mortgaging your teams future and grinding out meaningless wins in a draft year that has an actual generational talent, all to possibly re-sign Siakam.

For a god damn second banana. I have no idea how people defend this stuff.

Bingo. Selling out other options to a treadmill plan? Hinging everything on a Pascal return? Like why? We sucked. Run it again?

First of all. I don't believe it. Secondly, if true,,, it DIDN'T WORK. Every which way you can chose to look at it, it was a failure. Why construct fantasy explanations to defend Masai/Bobby? These guys dined out on the championship for too long and thought they had 5+ years to simply try to keep the band together and keep the plaudits coming. That doesn't cut it with me.

[Hero]

This feels like the most forgettable season in decades.

[dohboy_24]

Here's the thing...I don't know. We are most certainly not 6th worst team in the league if we have Scottie and Jakob healthy and a full training camp to implement coach's schemes and everyone being used to playing with each other. I think we can agree on that.

I don't believe this upcoming draft changes our fortune dramatically even if we end up with the #1 pick, but you end up with a rotation player who will get minutes but learn while doing so. The top 5-10 pick that would start might be Alex Sarr who I could see starting at the 4 and sliding Scottie to the 3 because of his potential defensive impact.

My guess is that at best, we are in contention for the play-in. Best case scenario is that we are a first round playoff exit. If we are a first round playoff exit...we celebrate a year of progression and Darko's job is safe for one more season.

I think Darko has learned some lessons as a rookie head coach. I think Gradey will have at least as good a sophomore season as these last 3 months have been...but hopefully he is even better than that.

For the future development, growth and potential of this team, the best case scenario is to retain our top 6 pick this year and next year to deal conveying the pick to the Spurs until 2026.

Ideally, we'd even retain the pick in 2026 so it's only 2 second rounders we have to convey, but I don't think that's going to be likely after adding 3 draft picks this year and another in 2025, especially if two of them are among the top 6 selections and the FO does a good job drafting the right players, making trades, and/or adding free agents to the squad.

After the 2025 draft, we'd have to re-sign Scottie to an extension and pick up the team options for Ochai and Gradey to start the 2025-26 season with the following players under contract:

G - IQ, Dick, Ochai
F - Scottie, RJ
C - Jakob, KO
2024 draft: Top 6 pick, #18, #31
2025 draft: Top 6 pick

That's 11 players in total, leaving 4 spots open on the active roster and another 3 spots available for two-way contracts.

Payroll: Dick ($5m), Ochai ($6m), Jakob ($19.5m), RJ ($27.7), KO ($12m), IQ ($25m), Top 6 pick in 2024 ($7m), #18 pick in 2024 ($3m), #31 pick in 2024 ($2m), Top 6 pick in 2025 ($8m) = $115m total salary

Assuming the salary cap in 2025-26 is $155m, we'd have enough cap space available ($40m) to offer a max contract to a single player or could split it up among multiple players to fill the remaining gaps in the lineup with players who can compliment a core of IQ, Dick, Scottie, RJ, Jakob/KO, and the draft picks we can hopefully add through the next two drafts in a best case scenario that positions us to win 50%+ of our games for multiple seasons, place among the top 4 teams in the East, and hopefully make some deep runs in the playoffs that end up with us playing in the Conference Finals and Finals again.

[mtcan]

Here's the thing...I don't know. We are most certainly not 6th worst team in the league if we have Scottie and Jakob healthy and a full training camp to implement coach's schemes and everyone being used to playing with each other. I think we can agree on that.

I don't believe this upcoming draft changes our fortune dramatically even if we end up with the #1 pick, but you end up with a rotation player who will get minutes but learn while doing so. The top 5-10 pick that would start might be Alex Sarr who I could see starting at the 4 and sliding Scottie to the 3 because of his potential defensive impact.

My guess is that at best, we are in contention for the play-in. Best case scenario is that we are a first round playoff exit. If we are a first round playoff exit...we celebrate a year of progression and Darko's job is safe for one more season.

I think Darko has learned some lessons as a rookie head coach. I think Gradey will have at least as good a sophomore season as these last 3 months have been...but hopefully he is even better than that.

For the future development, growth and potential of this team, the best case scenario is to retain our top 6 pick this year and next year to deal conveying the pick to the Spurs until 2026.

Ideally, we'd even retain the pick in 2026 so it's only 2 second rounders we have to convey, but I don't think that's going to be likely after adding 3 draft picks this year and another in 2025, especially if two of them are among the top 6 selections and the FO does a good job drafting the right players, making trades, and/or adding free agents to the squad.

After the 2025 draft, we'd have to re-sign Scottie to an extension and pick up the team options for Ochai and Gradey to start the 2025-26 season with the following players under contract:

G - IQ, Dick, Ochai
F - Scottie, RJ
C - Jakob, KO
2024 draft: Top 6 pick, #18, #31
2025 draft: Top 6 pick

That's 11 players in total, leaving 4 spots open on the active roster and another 3 spots available for two-way contracts.

Payroll: Dick ($5m), Ochai ($6m), Jakob ($19.5m), RJ ($27.7), KO ($12m), IQ ($25m), Top 6 pick in 2024 ($7m), #18 pick in 2024 ($3m), #31 pick in 2024 ($2m), Top 6 pick in 2025 ($8m) = $115m total salary

Assuming the salary cap in 2025-26 is $155m, we'd have enough cap space available ($40m) to offer a max contract to a single player or could split it up among multiple players to fill the remaining gaps in the lineup with players who can compliment a core of IQ, Dick, Scottie, RJ, Jakob/KO, and the draft picks we can hopefully add through the next two drafts in a best case scenario that positions us to win 50%+ of our games for multiple seasons, place among the top 4 teams in the East, and hopefully make some deep runs in the playoffs that end up with us playing in the Conference Finals and Finals again.

I don't disagree that tanking next season would be the best way to go...but I just don't think the team is bad enough. And RJ, Quick and Scottie are good enough such that we won't be top 4 bad...and that's really where we would need to land in order to get a Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey.

I wouldn't be mad if we tank next season but the complaining around here will be insufferable and it will be a difficult season to endure.

I believe that the front office purposely wanted NBA-tested guys like RJ and Quick along with Kelly because they believe that we are closer to the play-in than we are a top 4 pick. They clearly want to turn the ship around sooner rather than later. I can't argue with that either especially if we are a fringe playoff team next year while being able to draft a player hopefully in the top 6 this summer.

[dohboy_24]

I don't disagree that tanking next season would be the best way to go...but I just don't think the team is bad enough. And RJ, Quick and Scottie are good enough such that we won't be top 4 bad...and that's really where we would need to land in order to get a Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey.

I wouldn't be mad if we tank next season but the complaining around here will be insufferable and it will be a difficult season to endure.

I believe that the front office purposely wanted NBA-tested guys like RJ and Quick along with Kelly because they believe that we are closer to the play-in than we are a top 4 pick. They clearly want to turn the ship around sooner rather than later. I can't argue with that either especially if we are a fringe playoff team next year while being able to draft a player hopefully in the top 6 this summer.

Should we retain our top 6 pick this year, that player along with the other 2 picks are likely going to play 20% to 25% of the available minutes next season.

While the remaining 75% to 80% of the minutes will be split among IQ, Dick, Ochai, RJ, Scottie, Jakob, KO, Boucher and Brown, the majority of those players haven't played more than a few seasons themselves nor have they made any deep runs in the playoffs (aside from Brown).

In a best case scenario, we probably win 37 to 41 games next year, end up as the #9 or #10 seed in the play-in tournament, lose the play-in game, and end up at the back end of the lottery (#11 to #14) unless we get lucky.

In a worst case scenario, we probably win 28 to 33 games next year, miss the playoffs and the play-in tournament entirely, end up with one of the top 10 worst records in the league and a pick in the middle of the lottery (#7 to #10) unless we get lucky.

Either way, our 2025 pick would likely go to the Spurs unless we lose just 4-6 more games than the worst-case projected scenario and end up among the top 6 worst teams in the league with much better odds to remain among those selections and retain our pick.

Considering the number of close games throughout the season that could go one way or another, the difference between making the play-in tournament and being among the top 6 worst teams in the league could be decided by the outcome of only 12-16 games so the gap between these scenarios and the outcomes that can be expected from them probably aren't as wide as you might initially believe them to be.

[JN]

I might have watched 50 minutes total of the last 20 games.
Assuming I didn't miss too much.

[Reeko]

I might have watched 50 minutes total of the last 20 games.
Assuming I didn't miss too much.

You know it's bad when you don't even bother looking at the schedule to see when the next game is. And even when you know there is a game it doesn't matter because a 20 point blow it is almost assumed at this point.

Brighter days ahead? Maybe, but then again it might just be more of the same next season.

[Scase]

I might have watched 50 minutes total of the last 20 games.
Assuming I didn't miss too much.

You know it's bad when you don't even bother looking at the schedule to see when the next game is. And even when you know there is a game it doesn't matter because a 20 point blow it is almost assumed at this point.

Brighter days ahead? Maybe, but then again it might just be more of the same next season.

I will approach next season like any other one, watch the first 20 or so games, and see if they are losing because of development, or losing because of a **** team. If it's the former, I keep watching, the latter? See you in the off season.

[Dennis 37]

We really went out with a whimper, still on page 1

And not a single post about the actual Heat game

I was annoyed. After having to lose all those games, we could finally win. Both RJ and Quick were in street clothes.

I needed to enjoy a game and they didn't give us that.

[JB7]

Here's the thing...I don't know. We are most certainly not 6th worst team in the league if we have Scottie and Jakob healthy and a full training camp to implement coach's schemes and everyone being used to playing with each other. I think we can agree on that.

I don't believe this upcoming draft changes our fortune dramatically even if we end up with the #1 pick, but you end up with a rotation player who will get minutes but learn while doing so. The top 5-10 pick that would start might be Alex Sarr who I could see starting at the 4 and sliding Scottie to the 3 because of his potential defensive impact.

My guess is that at best, we are in contention for the play-in. Best case scenario is that we are a first round playoff exit. If we are a first round playoff exit...we celebrate a year of progression and Darko's job is safe for one more season.

I think Darko has learned some lessons as a rookie head coach. I think Gradey will have at least as good a sophomore season as these last 3 months have been...but hopefully he is even better than that.

For the future development, growth and potential of this team, the best case scenario is to retain our top 6 pick this year and next year to deal conveying the pick to the Spurs until 2026.

Ideally, we'd even retain the pick in 2026 so it's only 2 second rounders we have to convey, but I don't think that's going to be likely after adding 3 draft picks this year and another in 2025, especially if two of them are among the top 6 selections and the FO does a good job drafting the right players, making trades, and/or adding free agents to the squad.

After the 2025 draft, we'd have to re-sign Scottie to an extension and pick up the team options for Ochai and Gradey to start the 2025-26 season with the following players under contract:

G - IQ, Dick, Ochai
F - Scottie, RJ
C - Jakob, KO
2024 draft: Top 6 pick, #18, #31
2025 draft: Top 6 pick

That's 11 players in total, leaving 4 spots open on the active roster and another 3 spots available for two-way contracts.

Payroll: Dick ($5m), Ochai ($6m), Jakob ($19.5m), RJ ($27.7), KO ($12m), IQ ($25m), Top 6 pick in 2024 ($7m), #18 pick in 2024 ($3m), #31 pick in 2024 ($2m), Top 6 pick in 2025 ($8m) = $115m total salary

Assuming the salary cap in 2025-26 is $155m, we'd have enough cap space available ($40m) to offer a max contract to a single player or could split it up among multiple players to fill the remaining gaps in the lineup with players who can compliment a core of IQ, Dick, Scottie, RJ, Jakob/KO, and the draft picks we can hopefully add through the next two drafts in a best case scenario that positions us to win 50%+ of our games for multiple seasons, place among the top 4 teams in the East, and hopefully make some deep runs in the playoffs that end up with us playing in the Conference Finals and Finals again.

I don't disagree that tanking next season would be the best way to go...but I just don't think the team is bad enough. And RJ, Quick and Scottie are good enough such that we won't be top 4 bad...and that's really where we would need to land in order to get a Cooper Flagg or Ace Bailey.

I wouldn't be mad if we tank next season but the complaining around here will be insufferable and it will be a difficult season to endure.

I believe that the front office purposely wanted NBA-tested guys like RJ and Quick along with Kelly because they believe that we are closer to the play-in than we are a top 4 pick. They clearly want to turn the ship around sooner rather than later. I can't argue with that either especially if we are a fringe playoff team next year while being able to draft a player hopefully in the top 6 this summer.

Next year, the tanking teams could be truly awful. Wiz, Blazers and Pistons will all probably be tanking hard, and possibly even Utah and Charlotte, with actual talent at the top end of the draft. These teams won 14-21 games in a year with a historically weak draft.

The only way Raps bottom out that bad is if BBQ all go down with season ending injuries.

[Chuck Everett]

Next year, the tanking teams could be truly awful. Wiz, Blazers and Pistons will all probably be tanking hard, and possibly even Utah and Charlotte, with actual talent at the top end of the draft. These teams won 14-21 games in a year with a historically weak draft.

The only way Raps bottom out that bad is if BBQ all go down with season ending injuries.

The only teams I am certain will be tanking are Utah and Washington. Detroit, even if they need to tank, wants to see all those young players start to win some games. Like their fanbase would be happy with 30 wins. I don't think they could stomach another 14 win season, where they might end up with the #5 pick.

Portland and Charlotte have talent on their rosters if they are healthy as does Toronto. Each team could easily tread water the first month or two of the season, but as of right now before the offseason starts, I only see two teams that will absolutely be at the bottom next year. Nets can't tank 'cause they don't have their picks.

[WaltFrazier]

We really went out with a whimper, still on page 1

And not a single post about the actual Heat game

I was annoyed. After having to lose all those games, we could finally win. Both RJ and Quick were in street clothes.

I needed to enjoy a game and they didn't give us that.

Who cares what you wanted, you're merely a fan. . It's s not the team's job to entertain its fans.

[Morse Code]

Masai said be patient

I hope he sticks to that

This is my biggest worry. Everyone's talking about play-in tournament expectations next season and whatnot. I don't want to cut corners just because we're impatient. This is what it takes. Stick to it. Build your foundation properly this time so we don't end up in this position again with just flat out not having enough top end talent. That will take 5-10 years to go through if we don't do this right.

Sent from my LG-H873 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Morse Code]

The smart play is to tank again in 2025.

Facts

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[mowcrowbar]

For now... Next year is Tank Part 2: Tank harder.

[Duffman100]

I like all the talk about whether we want or not want the pick to convey. We don't even have control of it at this point!

[DG88]

I like all the talk about whether we want or not want the pick to convey. We don't even have control of it at this point!

Which is why I'm going into the draft knowing we just have 2 picks. We won't know anything until May 12th anyways.