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Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason

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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#21 » by YogurtProducer » Thu May 2, 2024 10:29 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:
Smalltown wrote:
People keep saying this. But there's really no good reason to do it. The contract is too valuable as an expiring salary ballast. If you don't trade him in the offseason you have until the end of the season to get his salary off the books and below the tax.

Zero reason to do it. Why decline a guy when you gain zero ability to replace him AND lose the salary to use in trades?

Brown has been vilified here for some reason. Not many guys are going to look that good in the situation we had to end last year.


Do people not understand how salary cap space works? Or do people think that Toronto just doesn't have a chance to actually woo an impact player?

Do you not understand? If we decline Bruce we dont get 20M in cap space.
What an absolute failure and disaster this franchise is, ran by one of the most incompetent front offices in the league.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#22 » by YogurtProducer » Thu May 2, 2024 10:30 pm

islandboy53 wrote:
C_Money wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:I think we first have to see how the lottery shakes out. If we keep our 2025 pick you might be patient and just let things be and see how next season starts - transition to a tank if you need to.

IF we get a top 6 pick you are a little more aggressive this off-season. Maybe you do a Brown for Wiggins and stuff, go after a FA and see what a GTJ s+t could look like.

Once the lottery is ran, our path will be a little more easily defined.


This is what I think too. If we lose the pick to San Antonio then we are not in a position where we can start trading for guys like Wiggins. That’s a good way to half ass your rebuild and get stuck as a .500 team.


Whether we keep the pick or lose it, Brown for Wiggins causes salary problems, starting in 25/26. Let's look at both scenarios, in both cases giving IQ $25 million this year, letting Trent walk, and giving Scottie 25% of the cap in 25/26.

Losing the pick gives us about $150 million in total salary in 24/25 before signing free agents or other moves, so adequate room to use the full NTMLE and most of the Siakam TPE or other salary onboarding moves. Assuming we use the full MLE, but don't bring in any additional salary that isn't expiring, our 25/26 salary runs about $185 million, or just over the 1st apron (if everything increases 3%).

If we keep the pick, that adds between $7.5 million and $12.6 million to 24/25, depending where the pick lands. That reduces our manoeuvering room significantly this year, and again puts us over the 1st apron next year.

There is no possibility that Wiggins makes this team good enough to pay tax for, never mind dealing with 1st apron restrictions for. In short, aside from all the very relevant questions about Wiggins as a player, we just can't afford him.

You can always trade Wiggins later, and in theory he will be cheaper to dump in 2025 than it would be to be dumped with him in 2024. So if we can get say, Moody or a first now, maybe we can dump him for just a 2nd later.

Not saying that is feasible, but getting Wiggins now does not mean keeping Wiggins forever. He also becomes a guy you can add onto a dude like RJ and take a swing at a bigger fish.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#23 » by alpngso » Thu May 2, 2024 10:33 pm

-Spurs get Raps pick. Raps draft a big and a wing with 19th and 31st pick
-trade Bruce Brown for high 2nd rd pick in the future for team that needs avoid luxury tax
-GTJ reupped at 3/55M
-Sign Aaron Holiday or vet PG via MLE or part of it
-Raps cannot give away McDaniels. Comes back next season
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#24 » by DreamTeam09 » Thu May 2, 2024 10:58 pm

Let brown + GTj walk
Use that capspsce + a 2nd to send to GS for Wiggins + 1st

So basically GS gets completely out of Wiggins deal + 2nd for a future 1st

Draft a guard at 19 & Klintman at 31

Use the MLE on a big - Jalen Smith or Wiseman or Isiah Jackson if he's a FA

In
Wiggins
Guard at 19
Klintman at 31
Jalen Smith - FA

IQ/Collier or McCain or Carter
Wiggins/Ochai
RJ/Dick
Barnes/Kelly/Klintman
Jakob/Jalen Smith
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#25 » by Dyehardrapsfan » Fri May 3, 2024 12:13 am

Decline brown.
-Acquire a starting shooting guard in free agency.
- draft a big and backup point guard
- or get a backup pg in free agency
- maybe bring back GTJ if we cannot acquire a shooting guard in free agency
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#26 » by Rapsfan07 » Fri May 3, 2024 12:16 am

Smalltown wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:Decline Bruce Brown option.


People keep saying this. But there's really no good reason to do it. The contract is too valuable as an expiring salary ballast. If you don't trade him in the offseason you have until the end of the season to get his salary off the books and below the tax.

Right...when someone is going to charge you for the ability to do so.

No thanks. We tried this approach with Dragic and it bit us in the azz.

Let's not fiddle with this. Just decline his option.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#27 » by Rapsfan07 » Fri May 3, 2024 1:25 am

Draft
Holland at #6, Carter at #19, Holmes/Tyson/Jones/Simpson at #31

Contracts
Either:
1. Pick up Brown's deal and trade him for Hunter. He's cheaper and the Hawks have more value to offer than the Warriors will send for taking on Wiggins.
OR
2. Decline Brown's deal and S&T Trent for P-Will (William's deal shouldn't exceed $80M/4ys)
3. Decline Brown, renounce Trent and sign P-Will to an offer sheet (price is above)

Free Agents
If you went with the first option above, sign a veteran minimum or bring Nwora back on the cheap. If you got P-Will, you just need a cheap veteran here. Really, you could get a cheap vet here either way.

Break the MLE up in parts. Bring in a veteran like Lowry who still has some game and can tutor Quickley and Carter. Monte Morris might also be a nice get here but Lowry should be cheaper and easier. I'd also like to bring in Biyombo on the veterans minimum. You could probably use the rest on Jalen Smith or trade Boucher for Clarke from the Grizzlies if they're wanting to shed some long term salary

Quickley/Lowry/Carter
Barrett/Dick/Agbaji
Hunter or Williams/Holland/Nwora or vet
Barnes/Smith or Clarke
Poeltl/Olynyk/Biyombo
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#28 » by JRoy » Fri May 3, 2024 6:26 am

-SAS get TOR FRP and select 2 lotto talents to play with VW, beginning a decade of dominance in the west.
-TOR makes a play for an upgrade at sg, is spurned and signs GTJr for $17.5 million for 3 years.
-TOR reaches to draft an international prospect that becomes an excellent starter in 2-3 years and haters eat crow.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#29 » by metafisical » Fri May 3, 2024 7:02 am

- Toronto gets #1 pick and picks Sarr.
- Renounce Brown and don't re-sign Trent Jr
- trade Poeltl and get back any kind of asset
- lay out a masteful plan to tank the 2024/25 land 2025/26 seasons so that we convey 2 2nds to San Antonio and win a championship in 2026/27
- laugh at Brown, Trent Jr and Poeltl for not being a part of our 2026/27 championship team
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#30 » by 6ixpessant » Fri May 3, 2024 8:17 am

Well, win the draft or lose the pick is my preferred outcome. I really like a lot of guys coming next year and I don't think the organisation should be going all in on simply making the playoffs.If natural growth/improvement happens... so be it.

I don't know about Sarr, there hasn't really been an Australia developed player that has reached their lofty expectations. So I do worry a bit about how they're developed there. That'll change sometime, and maybe Sarr is that guy?

There aren't really any realistic free agents I'm high on, but I'm not a scout and there are sometimes guys that just get lost in their current situation. I may go watch some Saddiq Bey.. but he's restricted I think.

Unless Bruce Brown asks out, I'd probably keep him around.

If GTJ really wants to be here and gives a discount. I'd be cool with him coming back. I don't think that there will a Freddie deal out there for him.

Obviously ink Quickley.

I don't think this is the off season for anything massive on the trade front, who will really be available that doesn't have miles on the body and is a winner? There are always surprises though.

I think it's going to be really interesting.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#31 » by OAKLEY_2 » Fri May 3, 2024 1:00 pm

islandboy53 wrote:
C_Money wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:I think we first have to see how the lottery shakes out. If we keep our 2025 pick you might be patient and just let things be and see how next season starts - transition to a tank if you need to.

IF we get a top 6 pick you are a little more aggressive this off-season. Maybe you do a Brown for Wiggins and stuff, go after a FA and see what a GTJ s+t could look like.

Once the lottery is ran, our path will be a little more easily defined.


This is what I think too. If we lose the pick to San Antonio then we are not in a position where we can start trading for guys like Wiggins. That’s a good way to half ass your rebuild and get stuck as a .500 team.


Whether we keep the pick or lose it, Brown for Wiggins causes salary problems, starting in 25/26. Let's look at both scenarios, in both cases giving IQ $25 million this year, letting Trent walk, and giving Scottie 25% of the cap in 25/26.

Losing the pick gives us about $150 million in total salary in 24/25 before signing free agents or other moves, so adequate room to use the full NTMLE and most of the Siakam TPE or other salary onboarding moves. Assuming we use the full MLE, but don't bring in any additional salary that isn't expiring, our 25/26 salary runs about $185 million, or just over the 1st apron (if everything increases 3%).

If we keep the pick, that adds between $7.5 million and $12.6 million to 24/25, depending where the pick lands. That reduces our manoeuvering room significantly this year, and again puts us over the 1st apron next year.

There is no possibility that Wiggins makes this team good enough to pay tax for, never mind dealing with 1st apron restrictions for. In short, aside from all the very relevant questions about Wiggins as a player, we just can't afford him.


Conveying is a more boring proposition but all is out of our hands.

I'd never do Wiggins for Brown in a trade of contracts.

1. We should be offering Boucher, McDaniels (Siakam) partial TPE and throw in #31 for Wiggins. Done.
2. Assume we convey and pick next year.
3. Use #19 to take some risk. Am hoping Edey is there. He is a sizeable gamble but he is also a clear development fit with commitment to two Canadian programs.
3. Pick up Brown option.
4. Double sign and trade GTjr for Monte Morris
5. Offer sheet entire mle to Obbie Toppin

1-5
IQ, Barrett, Gradey Dick, Scottie, Jak
6th Andrew Wiggins
7-10
Bruce Brown, Monte Morris, Obbie Toppin, Kelly O
11-15
Ochai Agbaji, Zac Edey, Jordan Nwora, JFL, Malik Williams

Brown is traded to contender at the deadline and Agbaji moves in to backfill Brown.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#32 » by dhackett1565 » Fri May 3, 2024 1:09 pm

I agree with the posters who have mentioned needing to wait for the lotto. So much depends on whether they keep that pick - not only whether they have that prospect in place, but also the cap scenarios and options they have available to them change pretty significantly as well, whether they are operating with cap room or trying to operate above the cap and below the tax.

That one outcome will clarify a lot and then at least we'll know what hand we are dealt so we can decide which avenues make the most sense.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#33 » by OakleyDokely » Fri May 3, 2024 1:33 pm

Unless something big is out there that we don't know about it, I'd really just focus on hitting on our picks and acquiring some youngish role players at decent prices and start to build up the depth.

Trade: B. Brown for K Huerter, D Mitchell, 2nd round pick (2025)
Sign: Naji Marshall (MLE) / Xavier Tillman (Bi Annual)

J Poeltl - X Tillman
S Barnes - K Olynyk
RJ Barrett - N Marshall
G Dick - K Huerter / O Agbaji
I Quickley - D Mitchell
(+ picks 6/19/31 and 1-2 min. players)
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#34 » by DelAbbot » Fri May 3, 2024 1:39 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:
MiamiSPX wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:I have outlined the 3 main holes that the Raptors need to address this offseason to help compile a balanced roster.

In:
Backup PG - Monte Morris - Great buy low candidate coming off an injury plagued season.

Backup C - Jalen Smith - Indiana won't be able to afford all their talent so I believe we can take him away. He shoots 40%+ from 3 while being a good rebounder so it's a great pairing with Olynyk off the bench and good contrast to Poeltl.

Starting Wing - Wiggins - Now hear me out, im not saying he is the answer long term. I think we can get him while also receiving additional assets from Gstate to help with our rebuild. For the short term, he fills the need of a starting versatile wing defender. Long term, we need to hit on one of our draft picks to take over from Wiggins

Out:
Trent (let go or accept whatever you get in sign and trade)
Brown (used in Wiggins trade)

PG Quickley/ Morris/ JFL
SG RJ/ Dick/ Ochai
SF Wiggins/ 2024 Draft pick/ McDaniels
PF Barnes/ Olynyk/ Boucher
C Poeltl/ Smith/ 2024 draft pick


Fixed this for you, and I am onboard completely.


I knew that part was gonna turn some people off. I tried to start with the "hear me out" loll


GSW really f up'ed not giving us all their FRPs + prospects for a Wiggins for Siakam swap
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#35 » by DelAbbot » Fri May 3, 2024 1:41 pm

JRoy wrote:-SAS get TOR FRP and select 2 lotto talents to play with VW, beginning a decade of dominance in the west.
-TOR makes a play for an upgrade at sg, is spurned and signs GTJr for $17.5 million for 3 years.
-TOR reaches to draft an international prospect that becomes an excellent starter in 2-3 years and haters eat crow.


I see what you did there: you mixed a troll attempt, a realistic scenario, and another troll attempt.

GET
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#36 » by Raptorfan2012 » Fri May 3, 2024 1:46 pm

First order of business is to bring Lowry back on a vet min to help mentor IQ and Barnes; get these young guys back on that We the North culture.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#37 » by plainballing » Fri May 3, 2024 2:00 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:I have outlined the 3 main holes that the Raptors need to address this offseason to help compile a balanced roster.

In:
Backup PG - Monte Morris - Great buy low candidate coming off an injury plagued season.

Backup C - Jalen Smith - Indiana won't be able to afford all their talent so I believe we can take him away. He shoots 40%+ from 3 while being a good rebounder so it's a great pairing with Olynyk off the bench and good contrast to Poeltl.

Starting Wing - Wiggins - Now hear me out, im not saying he is the answer long term. I think we can get him while also receiving additional assets from Gstate to help with our rebuild. For the short term, he fills the need of a starting versatile wing defender. Long term, we need to hit on one of our draft picks to take over from Wiggins.

Out:
Trent (let go or accept whatever you get in sign and trade)
Brown (used in Wiggins trade)

PG Quickley/ Morris/ JFL
SG RJ/ Dick/ Ochai
SF Wiggins/ 2024 Draft pick/ McDaniels
PF Barnes/ Olynyk/ Boucher
C Poeltl/ Smith/ 2024 draft pick


I like the thinking especially what we can get from GS for getting rid of Wiggins' contract.

In this case, we can still "retool tank" for some talent next year and be in better position in terms of salary cap wise. I would try to draft Zach than paying a big contract for Smith at this point...unless we got 1st...*touch wood*
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#38 » by JRoy » Fri May 3, 2024 2:07 pm

DelAbbot wrote:
JRoy wrote:-SAS get TOR FRP and select 2 lotto talents to play with VW, beginning a decade of dominance in the west.
-TOR makes a play for an upgrade at sg, is spurned and signs GTJr for $17.5 million for 3 years.
-TOR reaches to draft an international prospect that becomes an excellent starter in 2-3 years and haters eat crow.


I see what you did there: you mixed a troll attempt, a realistic scenario, and another troll attempt.

GET


It’s not trolling at all. It’s realistic.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#39 » by JB7 » Fri May 3, 2024 2:10 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:I have outlined the 3 main holes that the Raptors need to address this offseason to help compile a balanced roster.

In:
Backup PG - Monte Morris - Great buy low candidate coming off an injury plagued season.

Backup C - Jalen Smith - Indiana won't be able to afford all their talent so I believe we can take him away. He shoots 40%+ from 3 while being a good rebounder so it's a great pairing with Olynyk off the bench and good contrast to Poeltl.

Starting Wing - Wiggins - Now hear me out, im not saying he is the answer long term. I think we can get him while also receiving additional assets from Gstate to help with our rebuild. For the short term, he fills the need of a starting versatile wing defender. Long term, we need to hit on one of our draft picks to take over from Wiggins.

Out:
Trent (let go or accept whatever you get in sign and trade)
Brown (used in Wiggins trade)

PG Quickley/ Morris/ JFL
SG RJ/ Dick/ Ochai
SF Wiggins/ 2024 Draft pick/ McDaniels
PF Barnes/ Olynyk/ Boucher
C Poeltl/ Smith/ 2024 draft pick


I generally was thinking the same route. Focus on the lineup with player movement, so that the team can just draft the best available talent and give them time to develop.

So first was the deal for Wiggins. There are other better players than Wiggins out there that the Raps could try to pursue (like TM3, Herb & Pat Williams, etc.) but I think they either won't be available, or the cost would be too much. Wiggins is the cheapest option to obtain the lengthy wing defender the team needs, and his contract is not atrocious. See Raps renouncing the rights to GTJ, and not picking up Brown's option, and then moving McDaniels (and possibly Boucher if they need his contract included). In terms of draft pick compensation, I would not count on much. Another alternative to the deal is if GSW is interested in Brown and then we pick up his option and move him.

Next, backup PG. I think reaching out to Lowry might be a good move. While his game has dropped off, his leadership on the bench could be used. Also they could resign Temple, to give them the requisite two vets they seem to like to have on the bench. I guess a couple of different voices.

For the back-up C option, I would just be looking for a player that would not cost a lot, or require many years on their deal. The roster is young, so they don't need too much depth, which can develop into a situation of players complaining about playing time, since most will go to the young core. That's why vets like Temple, Lowry and Thad previously, were perfect. Vets that would not complain about playing time, but would be ready to step in when needed, and be the positive voice from the bench. I would possibly even resign Thad again, as a backup option at the 4/5.

The minutes would generally go to this group:
C) Poeltl (Olynyk)
PF) Barnes
SF) Wiggins (Dick)
SG) Barrett (Agbaji)
PG) Quickley (Lowry)

Then if there are injuries, bench would consist of Temple, maybe Thad, Boucher?, JFL?, and 2-3 rookies.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#40 » by billy_hoyle » Fri May 3, 2024 3:25 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:Zero reason to do it. Why decline a guy when you gain zero ability to replace him AND lose the salary to use in trades?

Brown has been vilified here for some reason. Not many guys are going to look that good in the situation we had to end last year.


Do people not understand how salary cap space works? Or do people think that Toronto just doesn't have a chance to actually woo an impact player?

Do you not understand? If we decline Bruce we dont get 20M in cap space.



24-25 salary cap = $141m

RJ = $25.784m
Yak = $19.5m
KO = $12.804m
Barnes = $10.130m
Dick = $4.763m
Ochai = $4.130m
Freeman-Liberty = $1.891m
IQ (cap hold) = $12.5m
#1 pick = $10.504m
#19 pick = $2.896m
Total = $104.9m

As per my original post we traded #31 to dump Boucher and Mcdaniels.

That means we would have 141-104.9 = ~$36m in cap space.

Add in Boucher + McDaniels + pick 31 and you STILL end up at ~$19.45m.

So, you are just wrong on all fronts, and especially wrong on my original post idea (which I assume you should have read about the actual context of declining Bruce to free up cap space).

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