Im just gonna say it...Raptors look better with Calderon

nivisi9 · Post #1 » by **nivisi9** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 8:50 pm

im sure this thread will stir up alot of "Jose vs TJ" rants, but that's honestly not my intent....

It's just, with Jose running the show the team seems to operate more smoothly and Consistently, does anyone notice that? it's like you always know you're getting a solid PG type performance from Jose everynight (ast/TO ratio, smart with the ball, crafty, takes what's there, doesn't force it) where as TJ can be so erratic some nights you have no idea what to expect. does anyone get what I'm trying to convey?

ak06ma · Post #2 » by **ak06ma** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 8:53 pm

No he didn't . . .

UnRealGM · Post #3 » by **UnRealGM** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 8:54 pm

thanks for stopping by.

Raptors90102 · Post #4 » by **Raptors90102** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 8:55 pm

uh oh.. here we go again..

whysoserious · Post #5 » by **whysoserious** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 8:55 pm

nivisi9 wrote:im sure this thread will stir up alot of "Jose vs TJ" rants, but that's honestly not my intent....

It's just, with Jose running the show the team seems to operate more smoothly and Consistently, does anyone notice that? it's like you always know you're getting a solid PG type performance from Jose everynight (ast/TO ratio, smart with the ball, crafty, takes what's there, doesn't force it) where as TJ can be so erratic some nights you have no idea what to expect. does anyone get what I'm trying to convey?

Why does it have to be one over the other?

Why does it have to be TJ against Jose?

Why can't people understand that the team runs well with Jose and runs well with TJ, neither is perfect and both have things in their game that they need to improve on. Everyone has something to say when Jose has a solid game.

What about the fact that we're scoring less since TJ went down?

Test of Wills · Post #6 » by **Test of Wills** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 8:56 pm

OH NO not again!!
Calderon is great PG makes right decisions and runs the point smoothly
Ford is a great PG sets up his teammates perfectly, very quick and can light it up sometimes.
Both are great for this team and we will need both (just like right now).
Please just stop i know you didnt mean to stir it up but idiots like James699 will

pierrot · Post #7 » by **pierrot** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 8:59 pm

Solid but not spectacular is fine for the regular season, but TJ's ability to create will be very important in the playoffs when the defence gets tougher. We need them both.

RapZilla · Post #8 » by **RapZilla** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:01 pm

the fact remains... we need TJ back. I love Calderone and he is integral to our team but we need to have them both to be healthy for us to be the team we want to be.

EDIT: I don't really care who starts either.

vaff87 · Post #9 » by **vaff87** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:03 pm

Good thing they "look better", because apparently they play better with TJ.

107.8 points per 100 possessions and 109.8 points against per 100 possessions with Jose

108.8 points per 100 possessions and 105.4 points against per 100 possessions with TJ

Jose
TJ

So apparently them "looking better" to you, is an illusion.

jeffya2 · Post #10 » by **jeffya2** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:08 pm

BOTH @ 24 MINUTES / GAME ...Keeps them fresh & into the game ... Start a different one every night ... Keeps the opponents guessing ... Messes up the scouting & game match ups ... Let's make them dance to our tune for a change

TJ closes when we are behind {more aggressive & drives the bucket}
Hose when we are ahead {less turn overS + more cautious + better FT %}

Tha Cynic · Post #11 » by **Tha Cynic** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:10 pm

Jose is a jumpshooter's best friend. TJ is a championship team's engine. I would have thought this last month would finally make people realize how much we need TJ starting. I guess not. Let the fun continue.

ToffKobe · Post #12 » by **ToffKobe** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:11 pm

Personally I love Jose Calderon (no homo), but he can be toooooo careful with the ball at times and instead of getting a potential fast break bucket he pulls the ball out. This either causes us to miss the shot and the other team goes down the other way for a quick easy bucket or we make the shot. Nonetheless, Ford's ability to penetrate and break down the D is definitely missed on this team.

PharoaheMonch · Post #13 » by **PharoaheMonch** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:11 pm

vaff87 wrote:Good thing they "look better", because apparently they play better with TJ.

107.8 points per 100 possessions and 109.8 points against per 100 possessions with Jose

108.8 points per 100 possessions and 105.4 points against per 100 possessions with TJ

Jose
TJ

So apparently them "looking better" to you, is an illusion.

The thread starter is just a Euro Leage fan. Real GM should put a block on all IP Addresses from Spain.

TR50 · Post #14 » by **TR50** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:12 pm

Tha Cynic wrote:Jose is a jumpshooter's best friend. TJ is a championship team's engine. I would have thought this last month would finally make people realize how much we need TJ starting. I guess not. Let the fun continue.

dont think this guy is watching the same games

Death Knight · Post #15 » by **Death Knight** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:14 pm

Tha Cynic wrote:Jose is a jumpshooter's best friend. TJ is a championship team's engine. I would have thought this last month would finally make people realize how much we need TJ starting. I guess not. Let the fun continue.

lol...............

Let's not get carried away here. Just because the op is ignorant, doesn't mean you need to add to it.

Southward1 · Post #16 » by **Southward1** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:16 pm

LMAO this thread is terrible, and the arguement sucks.

The team's offence is so much worse without ford at least playing as backup.

The offence is organized, but not very quick moving with calderon there.

If anything the time that ford has been out has proved to me he's the better player. (maybe not the better pg), but certainly the better player.

bigtime105 · Post #17 » by **bigtime105** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:19 pm

Yeah with Calderon you get more consitencey, with TJ you get some extra scoring on and off. With TJ out and a consistent PG playing recently(jose) this team is starting to get exposed without someone who can take over in the crunch. Bosh cant, TJ can, the problem is TJ is your PG and that wont work in the long run having your PG be your main man, unless he can put up 50pts a night.

Both PG have their strengths which happen to be opposite but equally good. This is why having 2 of them should make this a contending team, but since we cant have 2 of them we got to get rid of 1 to address the other needs this team has which wont come from the PG position. IF you take TJ and get rid of CAlderon, then you got another need to fill - a pure PG which TJ isnt. So thats why you go with CAlderon and trade TJ for a scorer SF of SG that can play D. Calderon fills the needs of a pure PG and TJ's scoring can be replaced with a player who can play more D.

But until then Sam's gotta exploit our 2 PG's which should make up for what this team lacking in the mean time and get far in the playoffs.

This is why Calderon should start by default and TJ should come in as a sub and if he's hot ride him if you have to and finish with him if you have to. But the otherway around doesnt work.

TJ needs to get back if the team wants any chance to get in a good position to get far into the playoffs, Sam has to learn to exploit them for their strengths, that means CAldeorn starting and TJ scoring. We have no other chance without a real goto guy, which Bosh isnt and BArgnani will never be.

C Court · Post #18 » by **C Court** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:19 pm

If Jose pulls up on one more 3 on 2 fast break opportunity I will throw something at my television.

nivisi9 · Post #19 » by **nivisi9** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:22 pm

Good thing they "look better", because apparently they play better with TJ.

107.8 points per 100 possessions and 109.8 points against per 100 possessions with Jose

108.8 points per 100 possessions and 105.4 points against per 100 possessions with TJ

Jose
TJ

So apparently them "looking better" to you, is an illusion.

no..unfortunately those stats are awfully misleading

the stats for Jose starting are obviuosly going to be lower because the only time Jose starts is when TJ is not even in the lineup!!!

whereas the stats for TJ include Jose contributions coming off the bench which make his stats look marginally better

you just created an illusion

pk00 · Post #20 » by **pk00** » Tue Jan 1, 2008 9:24 pm

i like both, but the thing is when TJ ford is playing Calderon's playing time is reduced to less than 20.

I think they should be be playing around equal minutes, perhaps Calderon playing a bit more. I guess ford has to start though because ford seems to have a bit of an ego problem.