ImageImageImageImageImage

Bargnani discussion

Moderators: HiJiNX, niQ, Morris_Shatford, DG88, Reeko, lebron stopper, 7 Footer, Duffman100

tsherkin
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 78,762
And1: 20,188
Joined: Oct 14, 2003
 

 

Post#221 » by tsherkin » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:37 am

Duffman100 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



You're telling me that if you replaced Bargnani with a random 10 rebound center, lets say he average 5 points. That we'd go to the finals? I think not my friend. We have a good team, not THAT good.


That's not what I said, or what I meant; I said "part of it" for a reason. We have issues with interior defense, rebounding (primarily offensive), lack of a really dangerous second scorer who can score from a wing iso play, we lack post scoring, we have a couple of flaws. We're two or three players away from title contention, I think.

Duffman100 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I understand this is a discussion forum, but why not just sit around and complain about how we don't have Tmac and Vince. Cause we can change that too?


It's a discussion; questioning the value of a discussion about a legitimate problem is silly. And we DO complain about how we don't have those guys, though we don't give them names. We're talking about athletic wing iso scorers, aren't we?

Anyway, as I was saying before, it's obvious that replacing Bargs with the kind of center we need wouldn't immediately translate into title contention, not unless that center was something like Duncan or Shaq from 4 years ago. We need a proper center (even if the center isn't a big-time scorer) and another wing player before we're going anywhere past the second round, let alone the Finals.

But Bargnani is problematic because he's holding the team back by the very nature of his game as well as by his struggles.
User avatar
basketball royalty
RealGM
Posts: 17,073
And1: 2,963
Joined: Dec 10, 2004
Location: jurassic park

 

Post#222 » by basketball royalty » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:35 pm

A_wildstabatanything wrote:What happened to the personal coach BTW?

He strung a couple of good games together and they drop the idea like his struggles never happened???



I was wondering about that myself. I thought it was a great idea and am disappointed that they would not follow through with it. It is not a shame on Bargs or anyone to get extra coaching, Ewing is in ORL for Dwight and before that with Hou and Yao, and of course Kareem with Bynum.

Bargs is trying to play a new position much less improve, he would be greatly helped with a bigman coach.
Image
props to Turbozone for the sig
User avatar
The Letter V
Analyst
Posts: 3,258
And1: 11
Joined: May 06, 2006

 

Post#223 » by The Letter V » Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:42 pm

That's the funny thing; how did people expect Bargs to magically transform into a post player over the off-season after spending the summer shooting jumpers on the Italian National Team?

Get his goofy arse to some big man camps this summer and rip up his plane ticket to Italy. Sorry Bargs, no more raviloi for you, from now on, it's steak and potatoes.
Image
User avatar
GIZMO
Analyst
Posts: 3,426
And1: 1,771
Joined: Dec 22, 2005

 

Post#224 » by GIZMO » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:53 pm

The Letter V wrote:That's the funny thing; how did people expect Bargs to magically transform into a post player over the off-season after spending the summer shooting jumpers on the Italian National Team?

Get his goofy arse to some big man camps this summer and rip up his plane ticket to Italy. Sorry Bargs, no more raviloi for you, from now on, it's steak and potatoes.


True but :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: lmao
Duncanfan
Banned User
Posts: 2,310
And1: 2
Joined: May 22, 2007

 

Post#225 » by Duncanfan » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:07 pm

Tha Cynic wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Without his jumpshot the pick and roll with Bosh wouldn't work, which is the main reason we've been winning games. He's not a very good creator either. I've seen Delfino be more creative when running the point than Calderon. I guess that was aided by my ADD. :nod:


when you're boy TJ "Built Charmin tough" Ford stops injuring himself, we can have the discussion whether Jose is better than Ford or vice versa. Until then, Jose is all we have got. So, lets just stick to the topic and not discuss anyone else besides Andrea..
User avatar
Duffman100
Forum Mod - Raptors
Forum Mod - Raptors
Posts: 42,187
And1: 62,835
Joined: Jun 27, 2002
   

 

Post#226 » by Duffman100 » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:30 pm

tsherkin wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



It's a discussion; questioning the value of a discussion about a legitimate problem is silly. And we DO complain about how we don't have those guys, though we don't give them names. We're talking about athletic wing iso scorers, aren't we?

Anyway, as I was saying before, it's obvious that replacing Bargs with the kind of center we need wouldn't immediately translate into title contention, not unless that center was something like Duncan or Shaq from 4 years ago. We need a proper center (even if the center isn't a big-time scorer) and another wing player before we're going anywhere past the second round, let alone the Finals.

But Bargnani is problematic because he's holding the team back by the very nature of his game as well as by his struggles.


Ha, I've lost my passion for the argument haha...

Boy, did he suck last night.
User avatar
Tha Cynic
RealGM
Posts: 23,273
And1: 24,415
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Location: Starin' at the world through my rearview
     

 

Post#227 » by Tha Cynic » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:34 pm

Yosemite Dan wrote:Thanx for confirming the fact that you are indeed delusional. With that first sentence you've pretty much written off the careers of John Stockton and Steve Nash in one fell swoop if you think about it. You are starting to talk jibberish, go to bed.


Nash is an amazing creator for his team. Calderon doesn't even come close. And I don't see what I said that was so wrong. I simply said without his shot Calderon would be nothing, and I still believe that. His defense is subpar and he isn't very good at creating shots for his teammates. Even if Nash didn't have his shot, he would still be able to create for his teammates. You're taking things a little too personally. The comment wasn't even meant to be about Calderon but to show that Bargnani would be considered good if he could shoot consistently, despite the shortcomings int he other areas of his game. Imagine Calderon without his shot. He'd be another mediocre backup in this league. This board gets way too sensitive sometimes. :roll:
Kobe Bryant:You asked for my hustle - I gave you my heart, because it came with so much more."~Kobe #MambaOut
User avatar
Sun Tzu
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,860
And1: 0
Joined: Aug 25, 2005
Location: Toronto

 

Post#228 » by Sun Tzu » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:36 pm

The Letter V wrote:That's the funny thing; how did people expect Bargs to magically transform into a post player over the off-season after spending the summer shooting jumpers on the Italian National Team?

Get his goofy arse to some big man camps this summer and rip up his plane ticket to Italy. Sorry Bargs, no more raviloi for you, from now on, it's steak and potatoes.


On offence, the guy is largely a permiter jump shooter. We have all been over the numbers. Think Kapono with more reliance on the three, fewer mid-range Js and scoring a bit more under the basket.

I am not sure how this "transformation" into a "post player" continues to be the reason for the fact that he can't rebound or even shoot, more often than not.
User avatar
Tha Cynic
RealGM
Posts: 23,273
And1: 24,415
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Location: Starin' at the world through my rearview
     

 

Post#229 » by Tha Cynic » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:36 pm

Duncanfan wrote:when you're boy TJ "Built Charmin tough" Ford stops injuring himself, we can have the discussion whether Jose is better than Ford or vice versa. Until then, Jose is all we have got. So, lets just stick to the topic and not discuss anyone else besides Andrea..


I don't remember mentioning TJ in any of my posts in this thread, so don't come in here trying to make it like I am. Forget the injury, until TJ gets back to playing how he was playing before his injury there is no discussion, and he was showing signs of it before he got injured again with that wrist.
Kobe Bryant:You asked for my hustle - I gave you my heart, because it came with so much more."~Kobe #MambaOut
JN
RealGM
Posts: 18,833
And1: 9,925
Joined: Feb 02, 2007
   

Re: Bargnani discussion 

Post#230 » by JN » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:45 pm

Raps4evr wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


No, it's a useless topic because these discussions/debates have been held countless times... and there has never been nor will ever be an agreement from both parties, the side that is convinced Bargs is a bust each time he struggles, those who simply hate him and would have preferred Aldridge, Roy, Gay, etc... and those of us who keep stressing that Bargs was not NBA ready and management was fully aware with that, so he would need time.

He was drafted with the future in mind, as his potential and reports regarding him were unlike anyone in the draft, and so he was drafted.

Nevertheless, people won't/don't understand that... and simply base their judgements based on 1-2 seasons. It's an endless discussion of back and forth of nothing but immature assumptions, judgements, bitching and hate. Hence why these Bargs threads have become useless.

... I hope I was "real" this time.


These types of posts are my facourites.

Let's paraphrase this post to get down to what you really are saying:
- I want to take the high road, and say that all these discussions are usless.
- But first let me say I am right
- And second these threads degenerate because of the idiots and **** that don't agree with me.
- These threads never work because of the immature people who don't agree with my view.


Awesome job.
User avatar
uniballer
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,646
And1: 1,081
Joined: Jul 21, 2005
Location: Deeerty South Western Ontario
       

Re: Bargnani discussion 

Post#231 » by uniballer » Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:54 pm

JN wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



These types of posts are my facourites.

Let's paraphrase this post to get down to what you really are saying:
- I want to take the high road, and say that all these discussions are usless.
- But first let me say I am right
- And second these threads degenerate because of the idiots and **** that don't agree with me.
- These threads never work because of the immature people who don't agree with my view.


Awesome job.



I love these posts of people who try show the rest of the board they are above our intelligence level and need to break down a post in to stupid ass simple terms for us "normal" people


awsome job keep up the good work
Image
Credit to the great TZ
JN
RealGM
Posts: 18,833
And1: 9,925
Joined: Feb 02, 2007
   

Re: Bargnani discussion 

Post#232 » by JN » Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:34 pm

uniballer wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




I love these posts of people who try show the rest of the board they are above our intelligence level and need to break down a post in to stupid ass simple terms for us "normal" people


awsome job keep up the good work


You too. Might try to have a point next time, though.
User avatar
user name
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,911
And1: 1
Joined: Jun 24, 2005

 

Post#233 » by user name » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:34 pm

Having a break was good for some players and not so good for others. Not so good for Andrea- it appears.
User avatar
highlightstick
Junior
Posts: 389
And1: 63
Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Location: Toronto, ON

 

Post#234 » by highlightstick » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:36 pm

Brezec > Bargnani
Image
Duncanfan
Banned User
Posts: 2,310
And1: 2
Joined: May 22, 2007

 

Post#235 » by Duncanfan » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:39 pm

Can't we just cash in Andrea at a local Pizza Pizza for two large 3-topping Pizza's and a creamy garlic dipping sauce and get over it?

Return to Toronto Raptors


cron