Should we start Bargnani over JO to increase trade value?

[Dam]

If we showcase Bargs' by giving him starter minutes I think we accomplish 2 things. We lose almost every game which doesn't impress other teams and these extra minutes just highlights what a terrible shooter and rebounder he really is. Don't see how that increases his trade value. Haven't we done enough in bending over backwards for this scrub.

"we lose" LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
and now???....NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO....loooooooooooolllllllllllllll


again...curling (its a beautiful sports )

[MacDaddy]

The team needs a wing really bad I think we are in the state of the Nuggets pre-billups trade. We don't have many holes that a good wing couldn't cover up. We all know JO is back to good form and can still ball, but I think if we limit his minutes he we will bring the best out of him and still keep him injury free. He would be really good against second stringers and we need to add some fire power to our second unit. Which in my opinon has also lost us some games.

If Bargnani would play well for more than a game or two in a row, then yes.

[Kakapato]

- Bargs has decent quicks with the ball and can beat alot of opposing big men off the dribble

This is Andrea's real skill: he's not the best shooter from 3p even if he can shoot (he's better from midrange) but he's one of the faster big men in the league. The problem is that standing outside the arc he can't use that quickness to reach the rim without a defence's reaction. Give him the ball at midrange after some screens and he can be more productive.

IMO Bargs should play as a SF on offense (movement, jumpshots, drives) and a C on defense (and here he's greatly improved).

I don't think that the "parking" outside the 3p line is his fault: I think it's more a system's fault.

[ahson]

It can goes to another way: teams see how Bargs is a Bust. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Bargs hater but it's very possible to go another way I'll say.

[dagger]

It can goes to another way: teams see how Bargs is a Bust. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Bargs hater but it's very possible to go another way I'll say.

Teams scout each other. If Bargnani is a bust, they have already formed that opinion and we have nothing to lose, but if they think he has upside, playing him can reinforce that view. I think we have more to gain than lose by showcasing him. I just don't think this is the time to bring JO off the bench.

[tecumseh18]

I just don't think this is the time to bring JO off the bench.

Dagger, if Raps lose the next two (eminently losable) games, do you think they would be wise to start playing the younger players (Bargs, Hump, Joey, Ukic, Jawai when healthy) much more? Sure, start JO, but give Bargs 35 minutes of posting up on a consistent basis?

[Buyaka]

It can goes to another way: teams see how Bargs is a Bust. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Bargs hater but it's very possible to go another way I'll say.

Teams scout each other. If Bargnani is a bust, they have already formed that opinion and we have nothing to lose, but if they think he has upside, playing him can reinforce that view. I think we have more to gain than lose by showcasing him. I just don't think this is the time to bring JO off the bench.

Agreed. As for OP, bringing JO off the bench is the dumbest thing to do. He is the only player on our team that puts fear on opposing players from coming inside for a dunkfest. We need to protect the paint. The only guy with back to the basket post moves and you want him off the bench? Pehleeeez...

Besides, showcasing JO to the league will bring us the best value in the end.

[dagger]

It can goes to another way: teams see how Bargs is a Bust. Don't get me wrong, I am not a Bargs hater but it's very possible to go another way I'll say.

Teams scout each other. If Bargnani is a bust, they have already formed that opinion and we have nothing to lose, but if they think he has upside, playing him can reinforce that view. I think we have more to gain than lose by showcasing him. I just don't think this is the time to bring JO off the bench.

Agreed. As for OP, bringing JO off the bench is the dumbest thing to do. He is the only player on our team that puts fear on opposing players from coming inside for a dunkfest. We need to protect the paint. The only guy with back to the basket post moves and you want him off the bench? Pehleeeez...

Besides, showcasing JO to the league will bring us the best value in the end.

Let's not get too attached to JO. He is an intimidator, and he does score in the post, but for the money he costs, we could get a lot of talent, then maybe we'd stop dribble penetration and we'd gain more than we lose. He's a good, even great asset, but we have too much asset value in the 4-5 positions and not nearly enough in the 2-3 positions and backup 1. Given his age and tendency to get injuries large and small, I'd think he won't last here part this summer. That's why I suggest that there will be occasions to start AB if we are out of the real playoff race come the end of January. At some point in a season like this, the focus becomes maximizing the lottery balls and developing younger players, at which point JO will be encouraged to baby his bad knee if you get what I mean.

[GD13]

I don't think we should start him over JO, but I think we should get him more playing time.
Bosh's numbers go up when he plays with Bargs, and vice versa.

[dagger]

I just don't think this is the time to bring JO off the bench.

Dagger, if Raps lose the next two (eminently losable) games, do you think they would be wise to start playing the younger players (Bargs, Hump, Joey, Ukic, Jawai when healthy) much more? Sure, start JO, but give Bargs 35 minutes of posting up on a consistent basis?

No. You give the team until the all-star break to put together a significant winning streak. After that, especially after the trade deadline, if the playoffs are a forlorn hope, you find reasons to rest starters - petty injuries start keeping them out longer - and give the younger players a bigger role.

[Guy Smiley]

Who is a bigger stat stuffer in losses - JO or Bargs?

It always seem they have their best games at the expense of the team.

[basketball royalty]

Teams scout each other. If Bargnani is a bust, they have already formed that opinion and we have nothing to lose, but if they think he has upside, playing him can reinforce that view. I think we have more to gain than lose by showcasing him. I just don't think this is the time to bring JO off the bench.

Agreed. As for OP, bringing JO off the bench is the dumbest thing to do. He is the only player on our team that puts fear on opposing players from coming inside for a dunkfest. We need to protect the paint. The only guy with back to the basket post moves and you want him off the bench? Pehleeeez...

Besides, showcasing JO to the league will bring us the best value in the end.[/quote]

Let's not get too attached to JO. He is an intimidator, and he does score in the post, but for the money he costs, we could get a lot of talent, then maybe we'd stop dribble penetration and we'd gain more than we lose. He's a good, even great asset, but we have too much asset value in the 4-5 positions and not nearly enough in the 2-3 positions and backup 1. Given his age and tendency to get injuries large and small, I'd think he won't last here part this summer. That's why I suggest that there will be occasions to start AB if we are out of the real playoff race come the end of January. At some point in a season like this, the focus becomes maximizing the lottery balls and developing younger players, at which point JO will be encouraged to baby his bad knee if you get what I mean.[/quote]


I think we should just trade JO now and get some solid talent for him. I like the guy but he was the wrong trade to make for us, IMO cap space in 2010 serves us no real purpose because we won't be able to pry away any FA from other teams we will only be able to resign Bosh unless some $#!+ goes down between now and then. Trade him now and let Bargnani cut his teeth with the starting C role and let it go for better or worse because our future depends on our no. 1 pick developing into a player.

[TreeHuggaz]

This Thread is soooooo wack. What a waste of time!!! You all think JO is bad for the team. You all do not know the business of basketball. In two years you will have a lot of money with a few peices in place to make a very competive team. You are not going to win right now so just enjoy the lst two years of CB4. Give BC the chance to build a team that we will all be proud to say is Canada's team for 2010.

[Phenomenologist]

- Bargs has decent quicks with the ball and can beat alot of opposing big men off the dribble

This is Andrea's real skill: he's not the best shooter from 3p even if he can shoot (he's better from midrange) but he's one of the faster big men in the league. The problem is that standing outside the arc he can't use that quickness to reach the rim without a defence's reaction. Give him the ball at midrange after some screens and he can be more productive.

IMO Bargs should play as a SF on offense (movement, jumpshots, drives) and a C on defense (and here he's greatly improved).

I don't think that the "parking" outside the 3p line is his fault: I think it's more a system's fault.

I've always wondered why Bargnani doesn't get opportunities at the elbow (to face up against opposing bigs). This is Bosh's bread and butter, and Bargnani has a similar skill set. For whatever reason, he still gets the ball at the top of 3PT line after pick and rolls on nearly every touch. This is just not a sensible place for a 7 footer to get the ball (even one with 3PT range). You put him at the elbow, or in the post and establish things down low. And if he's rolling, then you can try and get him some looks from 3.

The one thing about the post-ups: Bargnani's way too violent in trying to get post position, which is something that the referees have taken notice of. Now, every time he attempts to get position, the guy guarding him (even PGs and SGs) will just flop and invariably get the call. Belinelli did this to Andrea during the Golden State game. Not only did Marco blatantly flop, but Bargnani didn't even touch him with his hands; it was all body. In which case, is it really surprising that a 7 foot, 270 pound guy would knock over a guard? Either way, he has to be a bit smoother in establishing position.

[BlackIce]

You want our 21 million dollar man to come off the bench, and you want our worst player this season to start? What a plan.

Bargs is the best man to man defender on the team lol That isn't to say he is great but he isn't the worst player this season, far from it.

[Rap Apart]

start Bargs over JO??? Does JO start anymore, does his private nurse let him play a full game?

[beno]

I would start JO because he is a volume shooter. He needs to be out in the floor to make an impact. Bargs is fine as back-up(less pressure) and he doesn't invite double teams to open up the wing man at the 3. JO could be a nice trade though, he can totally get us the wing man we need but not a lot of teams with cap space o_O.

[EventHorizon]

Would Bargnani be the next Dirk if he was the first option on a team? I believe so.

[Natural11]

Would Bargnani be the next Dirk if he was the first option on a team? I believe so.

Based on what? His one "good" game this season? If Hassan Adams has a good game, will he be the next MJ?

[Joker]

Getting a starter's nod, or receiving 26 minutes isn't all the beneficial for a volume scorer unless you're getting up a double digit amount of shots. It's all well and good to be a starter or play 26 minutes but if you're just setting screens and an afterthought swing pass out scorer than in fact, it's statistical disadvantage.

As this thread proves most people just look at production per 36 or per 48 minute totals when trying to analyze a player's potential. They don't necessarily consider his current role or usage on a team.

DH, you really need to let this Bargnani victim of circumstance thing go.

I'm sure every inconsistent player who shoots a lot of 3's who's coming off the bench would love to tell you that they just need more shots and a bigger role in the offense to show their stuff.