Bargnani's last 44 / Joey's last 33 / Jose's last 12

[JJWong17]

I love how Bargs hits shots with people in his face- his step back jumper at the 3-point line is deadly and he has the attitude after he makes the shot that I also love. He's getting even more cocky and Ilike it. When he gets the ball inside now, he's not jacking up akward jumpers, but instead driving to the basket and finishing strong, or drawing a foul. He's evolving before our eyes, much to the chagrin of the haters.

this guy could become unguardable as soon as next season. i think he can make a strong run for the allstar team as a backup C. obviously there are no set positions for backups in the all star game but he will be the 2nd best center in the east next year.

Unguardable remains to be seen. I'm absolutely ecstatic about where he's headed (I'm usually only watching the games to see him anyway) we have yet to see how he handles consistent double teams. I don't imagine he's going to get single coverage for the rest of his career.

[djsunyc]

I love how Bargs hits shots with people in his face- his step back jumper at the 3-point line is deadly and he has the attitude after he makes the shot that I also love. He's getting even more cocky and Ilike it. When he gets the ball inside now, he's not jacking up akward jumpers, but instead driving to the basket and finishing strong, or drawing a foul. He's evolving before our eyes, much to the chagrin of the haters.

this guy could become unguardable as soon as next season. i think he can make a strong run for the allstar team as a backup C. obviously there are no set positions for backups in the all star game but he will be the 2nd best center in the east next year.

Unguardable remains to be seen. I'm absolutely ecstatic about where he's headed (I'm usually only watching the games to see him anyway) we have yet to see how he handles consistent double teams. I don't imagine he's going to get single coverage for the rest of his career.

bosh gets the ball with his back to the basket by the elbow. then he hesitates a bit allowing defenses to hone in on him and make it easy for a help defender to come over.

bargs starts way up at the 3 point line at times. nobody is going to send a double that way. and if he drives past his guy and something is there to come help, he can pull up for a jumper or pass it off. they won't start doubling him. it would kill opposing defenses since he can see over everyone and pass it off.

[DarkKnight]

For those who are interested, according to the numbers over at 82games.com (usually a couple of games behind), Bargs is posting a 21.8 PER when playing at C. So assuming that the number is accurate and that he would be a C full-time next year, we may all be very impressed with the "sudden increase" in his PER. For comparison, a 21.8 PER would put him just below Bosh and above Durant at 17th in the league.

If we look at Barg's OPP PER at C it is 23.7

Yes, it does, but i've never gotten the feeling that 82games properly tracks who a guy is or isn't defending, and with all the switching and stuff that happens, I don't feel the OPP production numbers are reliable. Tracking what position a guy is playing is much easier than tracking who he is defending every second of every possession.

If bargs is defending Dwight, and Nelson beats Jose off the bounce and Bargs comes to help, and dwight gets the lob for the dunk because no one rotates, how does 82 games track this? it's pretty much impossible. But if Bargs comes back down and hits a 3, well, he was playing Centre the whole game so you chalk it up to his C offensive numbers.

[DarkKnight]

Actually, you may as well disregard all of 82 games positional data...they think Bargs has played 8% of team's minutes at C while Bosh has played 45% of the team's minutes at C, both of which are so far off reality that I have trouble believing any of their stuff.

[Ted Lasso]

Actually, you may as well disregard all of 82 games positional data...they think Bargs has played 8% of team's minutes at C while Bosh has played 45% of the team's minutes at C, both of which are so far off reality that I have trouble believing any of their stuff.

When Andrea and Chris play together 82games.com considers Bosh the 5 and Bargnani the 4. I'm not sure it makes much of a difference.

[DarkKnight]

Actually, you may as well disregard all of 82 games positional data...they think Bargs has played 8% of team's minutes at C while Bosh has played 45% of the team's minutes at C, both of which are so far off reality that I have trouble believing any of their stuff.

When Andrea and Chris play together 82games.com considers Bosh the 5 and Bargnani the 4. I'm not sure it makes much of a difference.

Well, it makes a difference in that its totally wrong, but hey. Mostly it makes a difference because bargs defends the centres.

[MikeM]

Bargs will never get doubled unless he develops a post game. Just like Bosh doesn't get doubled unless he is unconscious because no one is going to double a big out on the perimeter.

The thing with Bargnani is that if he gets a post game and starts commanding double teams our offense becomes so much better because unlike Bosh, Bargnani's passing and vision is exceptional. Even throughout the last 3 years when Bargs would get doubled on the post because he had a mismatch, you can see that he immediately knows where the open man is. It is one of the biggest reasons why I absolutely need Bargs to get a post game.

[Ted Lasso]

Actually, you may as well disregard all of 82 games positional data...they think Bargs has played 8% of team's minutes at C while Bosh has played 45% of the team's minutes at C, both of which are so far off reality that I have trouble believing any of their stuff.

When Andrea and Chris play together 82games.com considers Bosh the 5 and Bargnani the 4. I'm not sure it makes much of a difference.

Well, it makes a difference in that its totally wrong, but hey. Mostly it makes a difference because bargs defends the centres.

I didn't consider the defensive aspect. That's definitely true. But offensively it really makes no difference which one we call the centre. They both play the exact same way regardless, as with most players.

Edit: Now that i think about it, if they determine the opp. PER by tracking every possession then for the purposes of this particular discussion, there is no problem there either. Hopefully they don't just assign a position to each player and then go look at the boxscore after the game.

[supersub15]

Code: Select all

      Bargnani   Graham
MPG    36.21     24.35
FGA/G  14.70      8.07
PPG    19.76     10.07
RPG     6.5       4.4
BPG     1.1       0.2
FTA     4.7       2.3
TS%    0.589     0.553
PER    17.67     13.64

[The Notic]

The only stat that matters. 1-0 without Bargnani!

[Gold Chain]

The only stat that matters. 1-0 without Bargnani!

25-45 without D. Martin.

[Dam]

yeahhh...1-0 without bargs..but with the most beautiful team in the world, the "magic" clippers..
so..TRADE Andrea..
and go with bosh, pops, volsk...humps...go with this guys.

please Andrea don't resign!!!
go in the Usa...go to NY with Mike&Danilo!!!

[HiJiNX]

I find it strange that even as Bargnani's production has skyrocketed his PER numbers are still not as good as they'd seem.

[dacrusha]

I find it strange that even as Bargnani's production has skyrocketed his PER numbers are still not as good as they'd seem.

I think it's because his REB% is still pretty pathetic, not to mention his AST%.

[Phenomenologist]

I find it strange that even as Bargnani's production has skyrocketed his PER numbers are still not as good as they'd seem.

Yah, his poor rebounding (especially on the offensive glass) hurts his overall numbers quite a bit. And he doesn't make up for it by posting an unusually high AST Ratio for his position (in fact, it's below average even for a center).

However, 17.67 is still quite a good PER, and would place him 13th among centers. And if you consider that his PER last season was 10.96, we're talking about a nearly seven point improvement had he played this way all season, which is fantastic (and would have made him a strong candidate for MIP).

Going forward, I think we'll see a fairly substantial uptick in his assist ratio, to the extent that he'll end up well above average for centers (after all, he plays like a 7-foot guard in many ways). He's been far better lately (as his court awareness has improved), and as the game continues to slow down for him (and as he becomes more involved in the offense), I'd expect the improvement to continue.

Rebounding wise, I've suggested that Andrea is still adapting to his newfound girth. And that fact combined with a potential improvement in his doggedness and rebounding "pride" (those 50/50 balls) could allow him to post quasi-respectable rebounding numbers for a big. I doubt he'll ever be very good, but there's no question that he can be better then he is now. And, hey, he could always surprise; sometimes it's all mental with Bargnani, so we won't really know until it becomes more of an issue. Right now, everyone is just happy that he's bounced back.

[LLJ]

I find it strange that even as Bargnani's production has skyrocketed his PER numbers are still not as good as they'd seem.

Well, if they were, we'd probably win more games. Bargs has improved a lot, no doubt. But he's still no star yet. He's not even all-star calibre yet (though at least he's closing in on the possibility).

[TerryTate]

Super, any updates after last night?

[RapsVC15]

..Bargnani's been off the charts good so far this month.

Had a hot January, struggled a bit in February, and is lighting the league up so far in March.

The best part is, its only begun

[supersub15]

Code: Select all

      Bargnani   Graham
MPG    36.16     23.56
FGA/G  14.76      7.89
PPG    19.84      9.78
RPG     6.4       4.3
BPG     1.1       0.1
FTA     4.7       2.3
TS%    0.588     0.550
PER    17.68     13.30
VA    233.93     56.42

[supersub15]

Code: Select all

      Bargnani   Graham
MPG    36.03     23.33
FGA/G  14.85      7.62
PPG    19.90      9.55
RPG     6.45      4.34
BPG     1.07      0.17
FTA     4.67      2.14
TS%    0.589     0.558
PER    17.04     13.22
VA    216.46     56.27