Where is the Pick n Roll/Pop Play between Bosh and Caldy?

traps#10 · Post #1 » by **traps#10** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:20 am

Ever since Triano took over as Head Coach, it seems like the pick n roll/pop play between Bosh and Calderon has vanished...

I didn't agree with some of Smitch's play-calling but i gotta give credit to him for recognizing the pick n roll/pop between Calderon and Bosh was an effective offensive weapon. Bosh would set a screen for Calderon at the top of the key and Bosh would either roll towards the rim or pop out for a mid-range jump shot, and calderon would either pass it to Bosh if he popped out or attack the basket.

But ever since Triano's taken over, it seems that this effective offensive play has been scratched out entirely from the playbook and this may be one of the reasons why we are not scoring as much or as effectively as before.

Right now all i'm seeing from Triano's playbook is Bosh getting position down low in the left key and everyone else clears out and stand beyond the 3pt line, waiting for Bosh to make a move. The opposing team usually stands by, ready to help and crowd the lane when Bosh makes a move. This usually results in a Bosh fade-away miss or a pass from Bosh to a teammate who is beyond the 3pt line who attempts a long to mid-range shot and usually misses. This also may explain why we don't have slashers since the other team crowds the lane when Bosh gets the ball and that we have to take a jump shot because of this.

I want Triano to bring back the pick n roll/pop between Bosh and Calderon, although it was our most predictable play, it was also very effective with either Bosh an open mid-range jumper or rolling towards the basket drawing a foul, or Calderon taking a mid-range shot after the pick or driving to the rim.

So Clutch · Post #2 » by **So Clutch** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:01 am

What pick and roll? Their play is a pure pick and pop because Jose doesn't know how to run a pick and roll and he is incapable of threading the pass to a rolling Bosh. I personally hate that play, because it made the rest of the team stagnant on offense and stopped all ball movement and player movement. The coaches don't appear to know the meaning of strategy and moderation, because its either used excessively (Smitch) or never used (Triano).

Would it really pain Jose to learn now to throw bounce passes and lobs on the roll. I know this has been beaten to death, but the only pass he knows how to make is the chest pass and the occasional post lob pass. How can an NBA starting point guard not know how to run a pick and roll, it baffles me.

Mustard_Tiger · Post #3 » by **Mustard_Tiger** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:08 am

Bring back the pick and roll would certainly make them a more efficient offensive team, as it's the play that both Bosh and Jose excel at (Sam knew this, and that's why he utilized it so often). However....should winning games and improving our offense really be the goal at this point?

depaso+ · Post #4 » by **depaso+** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:37 am

So Clutch wrote:What pick and roll? Their play is a pure pick and pop because Jose doesn't know how to run a pick and roll and he is ....

YEAH.

One week more and I am sure someone is going to write that Calderon does not know shoot either...

Scase · Post #5 » by **Scase** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:02 am

depaso+ wrote:
So Clutch wrote:What pick and roll? Their play is a pure pick and pop because Jose doesn't know how to run a pick and roll and he is ....

YEAH.

One week more and I am sure someone is going to write that Calderon does not know shoot either...

Well let's see, I'm sure pretty much everyone who knows you IRL has never seen you fly a plane should they automatically assume you know how and you just choose not to?

Jose rarely if ever runs a pick and ROLL simply because he lacks the vision to pass out of a screen, but knows he will be open after so he shoots.

beno · Post #6 » by **beno** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:03 pm

its ok, realGMers are just having their periods.

brownballer · Post #7 » by **brownballer** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:08 pm

lol tha pick n shat

Post #8 » by **supersub15** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:22 pm

depaso+ wrote:YEAH.

One week more and I am sure someone is going to write that Calderon does not know shoot either...

That made me laugh.

Truth be told, I'd say (emprically) that 80% of our offense, when Bosh is on the floor, starts with a dump by one of the guards to Bosh in the post, wherein Bosh turns around and shoots a fadeaway jumper with 2 guys draped all over him. Just watch last night's game.

It could be a mandate from above to feed the beast until he's satiated. I have not seen a more stagnant offense in my life. Nobody moves, nobody cuts. Just jumper after jumper.

Ted Lasso · Post #9 » by **Ted Lasso** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:53 pm

depaso+ wrote:
So Clutch wrote:What pick and roll? Their play is a pure pick and pop because Jose doesn't know how to run a pick and roll and he is ....

YEAH.

One week more and I am sure someone is going to write that Calderon does not know shoot either...

A: Jose is a terrible shooter. His shooting is hurting this team.

B: But he has fantastic percentages. He is actually 5th in the league in TS%.

A: How predictable! Defending Calderon with stats. Stats don't mean a thing. WATCH THE GAME, will ya? That ball rarely ever goes in when Jose shoots it. And the ones that he hits are low impact baskets.

BigShotBob13 · Post #10 » by **BigShotBob13** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:54 pm

supersub15 wrote:
depaso+ wrote:YEAH.

One week more and I am sure someone is going to write that Calderon does not know shoot either...

That made me laugh.

Truth be told, I'd say (emprically) that 80% of our offense, when Bosh is on the floor, starts with a dump by one of the guards to Bosh in the post, wherein Bosh turns around and shoots a fadeaway jumper with 2 guys draped all over him. Just watch last night's game.

It could be a mandate from above to feed the beast until he's satiated. I have not seen a more stagnant offense in my life. Nobody moves, nobody cuts. Just jumper after jumper.

SS, who's fault is that though? I agree, the offense has STAGNATED since JT took over. I would prefer SMitch's call a play every time down the floor (even if it was the same 5 plays over and over) then this atrocity that we see on a nightly basis. When JT first got the post, he injected a lot more movement into the offense, a lot more cuts, a lot more movement, flashing into the paint. My question is, how did it degrade to this?

timdunkit · Post #11 » by **timdunkit** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:57 pm

BigShotBob13 wrote:
supersub15 wrote:
depaso+ wrote:YEAH.

One week more and I am sure someone is going to write that Calderon does not know shoot either...

That made me laugh.

Truth be told, I'd say (emprically) that 80% of our offense, when Bosh is on the floor, starts with a dump by one of the guards to Bosh in the post, wherein Bosh turns around and shoots a fadeaway jumper with 2 guys draped all over him. Just watch last night's game.

It could be a mandate from above to feed the beast until he's satiated. I have not seen a more stagnant offense in my life. Nobody moves, nobody cuts. Just jumper after jumper.

SS, who's fault is that though? I agree, the offense has STAGNATED since JT took over. I would prefer SMitch's call a play every time down the floor (even if it was the same 5 plays over and over) then this atrocity that we see on a nightly basis. When JT first got the post, he injected a lot more movement into the offense, a lot more cuts, a lot more movement, flashing into the paint. My question is, how did it degrade to this?

Guys must have simply tuned out JT, or given up hope. I've been complaining about this stagnant "free lance" offense for months. Basically, the ball is brought up by Jose and whoever the "play" (though I don't think there is any play) is asked to create for themselves ....

KG1585 · Post #12 » by **KG1585** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:57 pm

The pick and roll/pop play was one of the most effective plays in the league. The Raps used that play because it played to the strengths of our two best players and got shots for our shooters, who were not very effective doing anything else.

BigShotBob13 · Post #13 » by **BigShotBob13** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:59 pm

Chandler Bing wrote:
depaso+ wrote:
So Clutch wrote:What pick and roll? Their play is a pure pick and pop because Jose doesn't know how to run a pick and roll and he is ....

YEAH.

One week more and I am sure someone is going to write that Calderon does not know shoot either...

A: Jose is a terrible shooter. His shooting is hurting this team.

B: But he has fantastic percentages. He is actually 5th in the league in TS%.

A: How predictable! Defending Calderon with stats. Stats don't mean a thing. WATCH THE GAME, will ya? That ball rarely ever goes in when Jose shoots it. And the ones that he hits are low impact baskets.

How is any basket "a low impact basket"? I am pretty sure that every hit shot counts toward the score. Would it be better if the shots he takes never goes in?

As for the ball rarely ever goes in when he shoots, that's where stats are your friend. I am pretty sure the FG% means that he has made 45% of his shots, which is much better then nothing. Much better then Roko's horrendous percentage and even Bargnani's subpar average as well.

BigShotBob13 · Post #14 » by **BigShotBob13** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:04 pm

timdunkit wrote:
Guys must have simply tuned out JT, or given up hope. I've been complaining about this stagnant "free lance" offense for months. Basically, the ball is brought up by Jose and whoever the "play" (though I don't think there is any play) is asked to create for themselves ....

Yup, there in lies our problem. If the Raps don't have a clear path to the basket, we don't have many "break a player down and create your own shot" guys. Unbelievably Marion is the best at it, and all he does is go to the post right away. Others have mentioned it as well but our guys are not good at running the break at all, they run down the wings and no one makes an effort to make any cuts toward the basket. Again Marion is good, but it's 2 games and Jose is probably brainwashed into coming down the court and dumping it to Bosh. Or coming down the court and thinking "God, what the hell do I have to work with here...he can't shoot, he can't get open, he's being tripled team and he's supposed to be downlow but he waits here with me at the 3 pt line"

Ted Lasso · Post #15 » by **Ted Lasso** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:05 pm

BigShotBob13 wrote:
Chandler Bing wrote:A: Jose is a terrible shooter. His shooting is hurting this team.

B: But he has fantastic percentages. He is actually 5th in the league in TS%.

A: How predictable! Defending Calderon with stats. Stats don't mean a thing. WATCH THE GAME, will ya? That ball rarely ever goes in when Jose shoots it. And the ones that he hits are low impact baskets.

How is any basket "a low impact basket"? I am pretty sure that every hit shot counts toward the score. Would it be better if the shots he takes never goes in?

As for the ball rarely ever goes in when he shoots, that's where stats are your friend. I am pretty sure the FG% means that he has made 45% of his shots, which is much better then nothing. Much better then Roko's horrendous percentage and even Bargnani's subpar average as well.

Well his assists are obviously low impact assists so i'm sure there is a way to make sure his baskets will be known that way too.

I was just imagining how the discussion might go. Soon after this one, we'll get threads claiming that Jose is only listed as a tall point guard and that if we actually took the time to watch the games, we'd know that he is really about 5'8''.

J Dilla · Post #16 » by **J Dilla** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:21 pm

As much as I hate Jose style, the one thing he did really well was play the pick n roll with Chris Bosh. It ALWAYS worked, but these realgmers didn't like it for some reason.

You guys got what you wanted. A no playbook coach in Triano. At least Mitchell had plays that worked and kept the team performing to the max.

Fast_Feets · Post #17 » by **Fast_Feets** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:24 pm

one thing to point ot. the raptors pass are WEAK. their slow and have no urgency.

Watch the other teams pass and their passes are crisp and quick to the player. They really need to work on their basics.

OH and on the pick and roll I hated it b/c Calderon would never thread the needle ie Nash style and when he did pass it back to bosh it would be a slow over the head floater that wasted alot of time in mid air before getting to the player.

traps#10 · Post #18 » by **traps#10** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:43 pm

supersub15 wrote:
depaso+ wrote:YEAH.

One week more and I am sure someone is going to write that Calderon does not know shoot either...

That made me laugh.

Truth be told, I'd say (emprically) that 80% of our offense, when Bosh is on the floor, starts with a dump by one of the guards to Bosh in the post, wherein Bosh turns around and shoots a fadeaway jumper with 2 guys draped all over him. Just watch last night's game.

It could be a mandate from above to feed the beast until he's satiated. I have not seen a more stagnant offense in my life. Nobody moves, nobody cuts. Just jumper after jumper.

+1, this team's offense got to be the worst in the league. Everyone on the floor is just reacting to what Bosh is doing on the offensive side but they got to move and make cuts and move around more. It's really predicable and I don't understand why Triano had to erase this play from the playbook which was very effective even though it was predictable.

RapsFanInVA · Post #19 » by **RapsFanInVA** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:21 pm

But everyone here HATED the pick and roll because it was used so often. No one cared that it worked, it was just another excuse to hate on Sam. This is what the majority of posters here wanted, so please enjoy Triano's pathetic excuse for an offense and stop your complaining.