marion for o'neal was a steal for us

[RUN-TMR]

so far i like marion, but i still want us to draft a slasher. if we can resign him at a good contact (say 3yrs 30 mil) then he becomes the perfect player to mentor a young SF and keep that position stacked for a long time. i think he will work well with bargs and bosh, but clearly one of them needs to go because they don't work well together. looking ahead then, let's say you move bosh this summer for that package with GS. bosh + jawai for biendrins + bellinelli + turiaf + draft pick
then, with two lottery picks in the 5-10 range, you grab one of: aminu, clark and one of holiday, jennings.
now you've got a really young team with no allstars but great potential. a running team with defense and depth at different positions. marion becomes your leader. you let parker walk. actually keep kapono -- no one wants that **** contract -- and sign a young vet (ie. delfino) at sg. this isn't a contender, but i think it'd be a much better game of basketball to watch.
calderon/ukic/holiday
delfino/bellinelli/banks
marion/aminu/kapono/graham
bargs/hump/
biendrins/turiaf ...that's actually not bad. tough euro not soft euro theme going on.

[Raps in 4]

marion can still ball and is perfect for our team. he's already the fastest player we have and he is killing it on the boards. he is initiating the break and we can rely on him for 40 mins a night.

we got rid of a huge contract, a guy that didn't fit unfortunately, and someone we could not rely on due to health.

colangelo should get major props for fixing his mistake quickly.

If anything he should blamed for taking so long, there were talks of this trade going down forever, and it took until the deadline to actually pull the trigger.

[Ishta]

I totally agree. Steal? YA A STEAL FOR MIAMI!!!!!! Miami had to trade Marion since they knew he would not resign and they would lose him for nothing during the summer. With this trade, they unload a must trade player and a bad contract and gets a first round pick. We didn't need to trade JO this year since his contract is more attractive in the summer. With this trade, we didn't improve short term or long term. Short term, we are still losing. Long term, we have to deal with Marion's contract situation this summer. If he resigns, we will overpay a 30yr old player and be in the same situation as this year. If he doesn't, we would lose a lot of assets that were used to acquire him in the first place. To top it off, we got BANK.

GREAT DEAL, WHAT A STEAL!!!!

[Komodo]

Marion's played well for us. I really like how he plays the game. I was hard on the trade at first, but if Marion has more gas left in the tank than I originally thought, I think we'll make out quite well. He's quickly becoming one of my favorite raptors.

[cujo2k3]

I totally agree. Steal? YA A STEAL FOR MIAMI!!!!!! Miami had to trade Marion since they knew he would not resign and they would lose him for nothing during the summer. With this trade, they unload a must trade player and a bad contract and gets a first round pick. We didn't need to trade JO this year since his contract is more attractive in the summer. With this trade, we didn't improve short term or long term. Short term, we are still losing. Long term, we have to deal with Marion's contract situation this summer. If he resigns, we will overpay a 30yr old player and be in the same situation as this year. If he doesn't, we would lose a lot of assets that were used to acquire him in the first place. To top it off, we got BANK.

GREAT DEAL, WHAT A STEAL!!!!

i AGREE completely. it was a very poor trade

[tradedmascot_14]

What happens in the last 20 or so games of the season really doesn't mean much to me when evaluating the trade.

This is because the season was over at the time of the trade and, barring a miraculous run, is still over.

If Marion leaves at the end of the season, would you still call it a steal?

If he does, then we would have lost a conditional pick, as well as a valuable expiring contract next year, while taking on a pretty bad contract in Banks, for what? 20 games of decent play from Marion when the playoffs were already out of reach?

I was reading Carefoot's blog today and (assuming he is right) there will only be 4 teams with the capspace this summer to sign Marion to at least $10 million/year. Detroit, OKC, Memphis, and Toronto. I don't think Dumars would part with Teyshuan Prince to make room for Marion so that leaves Oklahoma and Memphis and I doubt either of those teams would part with their young talent (Rudy Gay and Kevin Durant) for Marion, who probably wouldn't want to join a rebuilding project anyway. Again, I don't know if these numbers are correct, but if they are, I would bet that Marion signs here. At the very worst, he will be moved in a sign and trade scenario, which Colangelo mentioned and would at least get us something back

[mapko81]

We only have to deal with Banks and Kapono for a maximum 2 1/3 more years ... seems like a long time but they might be moved and would come off as dead wegiht ( we will have guys to replace there roles by then) and 10 mill of the cap .

Yeah. I like to think of it this way.

.....................................Summer '09....Summer '10...Summer'11

Cap hit with Marion deal....... 5................. 5................ 5

Cap hit before deal ..............23 ................0.................0

We received a quicker-expiring contract for instant flexibility (18 million for next year) by taking on an extra 10 million spread out over last 2 years of Banks contract. We don't have to write off next year, which is pretty damn important for the future direction of this franchise. And we got the better player for us, and arguably the better player overall.

Actually, Banks expires in 2011, so there is no cap hit in the summer of '11.

Yeah, Banks is kind of worthless, but his contract only runs 1 year longer than JO's and the contract is not nearly as crippling and useless to us as JOs.

It wasn't a great deal, it wasn't a steal. It was simply a deal we HAD to make. Paying $47 million for three guys playing two positions over the next year and a half just made no sense for us. Hindering the development of Bargnani and Bosh by having JO around would've been even worse.

The Banks contract and the conditional 1st rounder are overrated losses though. With $3 million you can always buy a pick. And Banks expires just a year after O'Neal, along with other dead-wood such as Humphries and Kapono (thus a bunch of flexibility in '11)

[CPT]

Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to judge a trade where we gave up a future pick for a 31 year old guy we have to sign to a long term deal after 3 games. 3 games in which we went 1-2, no less.

Everyone is going to hate this deal in 2 years.

Anyone with some damn sense hates it now.

[SHootaR]

this is what happens after u play the 2nd worst defense in the NBA. let's wait until we play a good team...ie. not after tonights game either.

[LLJ]

What happens in the last 20 or so games of the season really doesn't mean much to me when evaluating the trade.

This is because the season was over at the time of the trade and, barring a miraculous run, is still over.

If Marion leaves at the end of the season, would you still call it a steal?

If he does, then we would have lost a conditional pick, as well as a valuable expiring contract next year, while taking on a pretty bad contract in Banks, for what? 20 games of decent play from Marion when the playoffs were already out of reach?

I was reading Carefoot's blog today and (assuming he is right) there will only be 4 teams with the capspace this summer to sign Marion to at least $10 million/year. Detroit, OKC, Memphis, and Toronto. I don't think Dumars would part with Teyshuan Prince to make room for Marion so that leaves Oklahoma and Memphis and I doubt either of those teams would part with their young talent (Rudy Gay and Kevin Durant) for Marion, who probably wouldn't want to join a rebuilding project anyway. Again, I don't know if these numbers are correct, but if they are, I would bet that Marion signs here. At the very worst, he will be moved in a sign and trade scenario, which Colangelo mentioned and would at least get us something back

However, if those teams plan to put Marion at the 4 it's a whole different ballgame. I think if BC wanted to he could definitely re-sign him, but the question is, what if we overpay? I for one have the dreaded feeling we will, although I like Marion back for 2-3 years all the same.

Anyway, I think ultimately we got the best player (JO is better when he's "on" but it's become increasingly clear he can no longer put together consistently strong performances anymore), however giving up the draft pick and Moon still seems a bit much. I think we should have nabbed something else other than Banks.

[LLJ]

Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to judge a trade where we gave up a future pick for a 31 year old guy we have to sign to a long term deal after 3 games. 3 games in which we went 1-2, no less.

Everyone is going to hate this deal in 2 years.

Anyone with some damn sense hates it now.

It's generally a subpar deal for us but I don't think it's the end of the world. It's not like we were all peaches and cream before the trade.

[knickerbocker2k2]

Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to judge a trade where we gave up a future pick for a 31 year old guy we have to sign to a long term deal after 3 games. 3 games in which we went 1-2, no less.

Everyone is going to hate this deal in 2 years.

Anyone with some damn sense hates it now.

I couldn't agree more. 3 games of which 2 were against the Knicks where stats get inflated. And he just had decent game and nothing earth shattering. He basically showed us what we thought he was going to be (Rebounding SF).

I would be more happy with the trade if we signed somebody else with the cap room. That way you can look at trading those assets for somebody like Gordon. Similiar to BC trading Marbury for cap space and signing Nash.

The best thing that can come out of this deal is letting Marion walk. Otherwise we will be looking in two years WHY on earth are we paying Marion $10M+?

[Grizzled]

marion can still ball and is perfect for our team. he's already the fastest player we have and he is killing it on the boards. he is initiating the break and we can rely on him for 40 mins a night.

we got rid of a huge contract, a guy that didn't fit unfortunately, and someone we could not rely on due to health.

colangelo should get major props for fixing his mistake quickly.

now, we must re-sign marion and i think we already have going by how he's been talking about the team, it's future, and working with bargs and making him better.

Absolutely, but the JO trade wasn't a mistake. Trading for him always gave us 2 options. Keep him or trade his expiring contract. I don't think we could have gotten Marion for TJ and filler either, so the increase in value that BC got with the TJ for JO trade allowed us to get Marion. BC has a very large brain, and you can certainly see it at work in this series of trades.

[LLJ]

marion can still ball and is perfect for our team. he's already the fastest player we have and he is killing it on the boards. he is initiating the break and we can rely on him for 40 mins a night.

we got rid of a huge contract, a guy that didn't fit unfortunately, and someone we could not rely on due to health.

colangelo should get major props for fixing his mistake quickly.

now, we must re-sign marion and i think we already have going by how he's been talking about the team, it's future, and working with bargs and making him better.

Absolutely, but the JO trade wasn't a mistake. Trading for him always gave us 2 options. Keep him or trade his expiring contract. I don't think we could have gotten Marion for TJ and filler either, so the increase in value that BC got with the TJ for JO trade allowed us to get Marion. BC has a very large brain, and you can certainly see it at work in this series of trades.

...

Anyway, your post did put the idea in my mind that BC always had Marion at the back of his mind. You know, it's entirely possible he plans to eventually get Amare and Nash over here to team with Bargs and Marion.

Notice I did not mention Calderon and Bosh.

[SHootaR]

marion can still ball and is perfect for our team. he's already the fastest player we have and he is killing it on the boards. he is initiating the break and we can rely on him for 40 mins a night.

we got rid of a huge contract, a guy that didn't fit unfortunately, and someone we could not rely on due to health.

colangelo should get major props for fixing his mistake quickly.

now, we must re-sign marion and i think we already have going by how he's been talking about the team, it's future, and working with bargs and making him better.

Absolutely, but the JO trade wasn't a mistake. Trading for him always gave us 2 options. Keep him or trade his expiring contract. I don't think we could have gotten Marion for TJ and filler either, so the increase in value that BC got with the TJ for JO trade allowed us to get Marion. BC has a very large brain, and you can certainly see it at work in this series of trades.

this is the end trade result.

TJ Ford (8 mill)
Rasho (expiring contract - 8.5 mill)
#18 1st round pick
>14 1st round pick

FOR

Marion (17 mill expiring)
Banks (4 mill)

So basically...if we did a straight-up trade with a team like that (Miami), we'd in essence be getting a NET 4.5 million for Summer 09...and giving up TJ Ford at 8 mill a year (decent contract) and 2 1st round draft picks. If you think BC is a genius for getting 4.5 million of expiring contracts for giving up TJ Ford and 2 1st round picks...i really cannnot help you.

[djsunyc]

17+ fastbreak points per game now....

STEAL!!!

[djsunyc]

courtesy of fairview4life:

55 games without Marion
Average FGA per game: 78.51
Average FTA per game: 22.8

4 games with Marion
Average FGA per game: 87.5
Average FTA per game: 18.5

STEAL!!!

[jay632]

i'm happy that bargs has more space to work, he looks alot better without JO clogging the lane. Marrion is a good rebounder, his shots still look so damm weird.

[knickerbocker2k2]

courtesy of fairview4life:

55 games without Marion
Average FGA per game: 78.51
Average FTA per game: 22.8

4 games with Marion
Average FGA per game: 87.5
Average FTA per game: 18.5

STEAL!!!

The one game against real NBA team 78 attempts.
The 3 games against 2 of the bottom 5 defense teams.

Lets see when we get more games under our belt.

[djsunyc]

courtesy of fairview4life:

55 games without Marion
Average FGA per game: 78.51
Average FTA per game: 22.8

4 games with Marion
Average FGA per game: 87.5
Average FTA per game: 18.5

STEAL!!!

The one game against real NBA team 78 attempts.
The 3 games against 2 of the bottom 5 defense teams.

Lets see when we get more games under our belt.

oh come on...get pumped...why curtail the excitement...