Bosh and Bargnani

[STA 13]

LOL@ Bosh being the weak link in a Bargs/Bosh frontcourt. Bargs has yet to even havev an average NBA season. He has been a below average player every year in the league by every statistical measure. He has also had terrible +/- every year in the league. But yeah...it's Bosh who is the weak link in that frontcourt. LMAO

The biggest ballstopper may also be Bargs--he of the 1.0 career assist average who has yet to average more assists per game than TOs

[C_Money]

LOL he holds the ball too long. When your a 23 ppg scorer you can hold the ball aslong as you want aslong as it goes in. Which it usually does with Bosh.

So you'd be fine watching Jamison (22ppg), West (21) or Randolph (21) stand around way longer than they need to and putting up as many shots as they want just cause they're 4s who can score a lot?

I'm not saying we should get rid of Bosh, but let's be honest on the type of player he was last year. He didn't really make the guys around him better and played exactly the way that guys who pad stats on bad teams normally do. Put up a ton of shots, don't pass enough, force your team to run ISOs rather than scoring in the flow and playing weak D.

He can be more than that, but he'll never be a superstar or a true MAX guy. Best player on an average or weak team, or the #2 guy on a great team.

If Bosh had a better supporting cast then I agree he should pass the ball more. But when your a threat to score 25-30 every night while everybody else misses 3 pointers all game you can do whatever you want with the ball. I actually think he doesn't try to score enough as he should.

[STA 13]

LOL he holds the ball too long. When your a 23 ppg scorer you can hold the ball aslong as you want aslong as it goes in. Which it usually does with Bosh.

So you'd be fine watching Jamison (22ppg), West (21) or Randolph (21) stand around way longer than they need to and putting up as many shots as they want just cause they're 4s who can score a lot?

I'm not saying we should get rid of Bosh, but let's be honest on the type of player he was last year. He didn't really make the guys around him better and played exactly the way that guys who pad stats on bad teams normally do. Put up a ton of shots, don't pass enough, force your team to run ISOs rather than scoring in the flow and playing weak D.

He can be more than that, but he'll never be a superstar or a true MAX guy. Best player on an average or weak team, or the #2 guy on a great team.

Maybe before you make obviously false statements you should look at what the stats say. Bosh does not take a ton of shots and hog the ball. Look at Bosh's field goal attempts, assists and turnovers and then compare them to other big men. You will then see just how incorrect you are.

[jonny three time]

LOL he holds the ball too long. When your a 23 ppg scorer you can hold the ball aslong as you want aslong as it goes in. Which it usually does with Bosh.

So you'd be fine watching Jamison (22ppg), West (21) or Randolph (21) stand around way longer than they need to and putting up as many shots as they want just cause they're 4s who can score a lot?

I'm not saying we should get rid of Bosh, but let's be honest on the type of player he was last year. He didn't really make the guys around him better and played exactly the way that guys who pad stats on bad teams normally do. Put up a ton of shots, don't pass enough, force your team to run ISOs rather than scoring in the flow and playing weak D.

He can be more than that, but he'll never be a superstar or a true MAX guy. Best player on an average or weak team, or the #2 guy on a great team.

Maybe before you make obviously false statements you should look at what the stats say. Bosh does not take a ton of shots and hog the ball. Look at Bosh's field goal attempts, assists and turnovers and then compare them to other big men. You will then see just how incorrect you are.

I know he's not inefficient, but he's not overly efficient either. He does a good but not great job with the shots he takes. My problem though is more with how he seems to only score off ISOs where he takes a long while to make his move, or pick and pops (in most games his legs weren't there for the roll). He also doesn't average near the amount of assists he could have, and he never has. Even in 07/08 when our team had a fantastic 3pt % he still couldn't average 3 assists a game with all the touches he got. Kapono could use some looks, god knows Jose and Bargs and AP can be easy assists for him, but even though he's an automatic double team (as many on here call him) he's just not giving them the looks they can use. How many elite bigs never average even 3 assists per game in their careers?

I'm not against Bosh, just being honest with who he is, and was last year especially. He had an offensive output that compares to other #1 guys on bad teams or #2 guys on great teams, while being fairly crap defensively as well. He's closer to the Jamison, Randolph, Boozer, West group of PF ( but he is better than them) than he is to the Dirks, Duncans and KG. Hopefully he can get back on track to being the elite player he looked like he could become 2 or 3 years ago, but he's been stagnant since then in his development.

My whole first point was that C_money was wrong in saying that Bosh can do whatever he wants on offense and take as long as he wants. I'm just trying to show you guys that he's not that good, he could stand to improve his pace, passing and versatility in scoring as a means to make the rest of the guys around him better. He's not good enough for a team to cater to him and let him do whatever he wants, while they expect to win games in the process.

[barrist]

LOL@ Bosh being the weak link in a Bargs/Bosh frontcourt. Bargs has yet to even havev an average NBA season. He has been a below average player every year in the league by every statistical measure. He has also had terrible +/- every year in the league. But yeah...it's Bosh who is the weak link in that frontcourt. LMAO

The biggest ballstopper may also be Bargs--he of the 1.0 career assist average who has yet to average more assists per game than TOs

What's an average NBA season, just wondering?

[Singh is King]

LOL he holds the ball too long. When your a 23 ppg scorer you can hold the ball aslong as you want aslong as it goes in. Which it usually does with Bosh.

So you'd be fine watching Jamison (22ppg), West (21) or Randolph (21) stand around way longer than they need to and putting up as many shots as they want just cause they're 4s who can score a lot?

I'm not saying we should get rid of Bosh, but let's be honest on the type of player he was last year. He didn't really make the guys around him better and played exactly the way that guys who pad stats on bad teams normally do. Put up a ton of shots, don't pass enough, force your team to run ISOs rather than scoring in the flow and playing weak D.

He can be more than that, but he'll never be a superstar or a true MAX guy. Best player on an average or weak team, or the #2 guy on a great team.

Jamison, West, Randolf are no where as efficient as bosh is, bosh is extremely efficient. FOr ex this past season, his off-year, he had a ts% of 0.569, the year before that 0.588. west was at 0.540 and he has chris paul creating for him. SO bosh is 10x better at offense then these guys and one of the most effiencet guys in the game so i dont care if all he does is ISO's, he puts the ball in the net at a high rate

[CreaM]

LOL he holds the ball too long. When your a 23 ppg scorer you can hold the ball aslong as you want aslong as it goes in. Which it usually does with Bosh.

So you'd be fine watching Jamison (22ppg), West (21) or Randolph (21) stand around way longer than they need to and putting up as many shots as they want just cause they're 4s who can score a lot?

I'm not saying we should get rid of Bosh, but let's be honest on the type of player he was last year. He didn't really make the guys around him better and played exactly the way that guys who pad stats on bad teams normally do. Put up a ton of shots, don't pass enough, force your team to run ISOs rather than scoring in the flow and playing weak D.

He can be more than that, but he'll never be a superstar or a true MAX guy. Best player on an average or weak team, or the #2 guy on a great team.

What a moronic post. Everything you said was absolutely wrong...

[CreaM]

LOL@ Bosh being the weak link in a Bargs/Bosh frontcourt. Bargs has yet to even havev an average NBA season. He has been a below average player every year in the league by every statistical measure. He has also had terrible +/- every year in the league. But yeah...it's Bosh who is the weak link in that frontcourt. LMAO

The biggest ballstopper may also be Bargs--he of the 1.0 career assist average who has yet to average more assists per game than TOs

What's an average NBA season, just wondering?

Anything better than what Bargs did his first 2 1/2 years.

[barrist]

Ohhh okay.

[garbagnani]

for those that doubt Bosh is in fact a stat padder.

please see game 82 of the regular season. Bosh rebounded with an intensity that I have never seen him bring in order to get 18 rebounds and push his season average upto 10 per game.

i have always liked Bosh. But this was a huge turn off.

[magani]

LOL he holds the ball too long. When your a 23 ppg scorer you can hold the ball aslong as you want aslong as it goes in. Which it usually does with Bosh.

So you'd be fine watching Jamison (22ppg), West (21) or Randolph (21) stand around way longer than they need to and putting up as many shots as they want just cause they're 4s who can score a lot?

I'm not saying we should get rid of Bosh, but let's be honest on the type of player he was last year. He didn't really make the guys around him better and played exactly the way that guys who pad stats on bad teams normally do. Put up a ton of shots, don't pass enough, force your team to run ISOs rather than scoring in the flow and playing weak D.

He can be more than that, but he'll never be a superstar or a true MAX guy. Best player on an average or weak team, or the #2 guy on a great team.

Jamison, West, Randolf are no where as efficient as bosh is, bosh is extremely efficient. FOr ex this past season, his off-year, he had a ts% of 0.569, the year before that 0.588. west was at 0.540 and he has chris paul creating for him. SO bosh is 10x better at offense then these guys and one of the most effiencet guys in the game so i dont care if all he does is ISO's, he puts the ball in the net at a high rate

RealGM math at its best. I want you doing my taxes. maybe not.

[sl64]

I think it's so obvious that the Bosh and Bargnani duo can't work together. Not only do they compound some of each others flaws, but they duplicate a lot of each other's skills. You don't need two PFs with strong face-up games and good range. It's redundant. One such player is enough.

[Singh is King]

RealGM math at its best. I want you doing my taxes. maybe not.

Its called exaggeration, I can assure you my math skills are fine thank you

[magani]

RealGM math at its best. I want you doing my taxes. maybe not.

Its called exaggeration, I can assure you my math skills are fine thank you

My quote is too. Have a great Memorial day.

[Reignman]

I don't think anyone can outright say whether it can work or not because the roster around them isn't designed to maximize their talents. More than anything we need perimeter defense and rebounding around them at the 1, 2, and 3 spots and we need a guy on the perimeter who can create their own shot.

Once we have those in place, that's when we can actually see if it will work or not. With the roster as-is, chances are it doesn't work.

[lemondrop]

I think it can work if Bosh committs to this team and management goes out and fixes the backcourt issues. While alot of fans have pointed to the SF position as the need I think it is our backcourt pg/sg positions which need fixin. I believe Bargnani is an adequate defender already and will only get better, I think Bosh is just below par in this category but neither they nor any big in this league could defend the onslaught of guards that are continoulsy attacking them along with having to guard their own man. Jose Calderon and Anthony Parker were and remain the weak area's on the defensive end, while I believe Bosh is also weak in this area it is the backcourt which ultimately dooms us on most nights. With Anthony Parker I think its just age that has caught up to him and slowed him a bit, he still gives max effort but just doesn't have it anymore. With Jose Caldleron its just the simple fact he doesn't have the ability to keep up with most point guards in this league and they relentlessly attack him everytime down the court which puts enormous pressure on our defense and bigs to cover for him. You will never have a good defensive team imo when your first line of defense which is your pg is abused on a nightly basis nearly everytime down the court.

Offensively I don't think there is any issue at all with the two players, they have shown they can both fill up the stat sheet and are mismatch nightmares for opposing defenses. All that being said I still believe Bosh is a gonner so the discussion of Bosh/Bargnani will not be a long term one or an issue within a year.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

The way I see it, and my intention in creating this thread was to undercover the only way I feel this frontcourt of Bosh and Bargnani can be truly effective....is to try to outscore teams at a high clip. Our defence will be such that where most of the games will be high-scoring anyway, and to win with this tandem, I feel that we would need to accerlate the pace of our offence, and basically just outscore teams...this to compensate for our lack of team defence with these two manning the paint.