Bargnani as a point-center?

[Salted Meat]

...at least it's not another "Trade Bosh" idea...


With Bosh commanding so much space in the mid/low post, and our desperate need for a player who can create their own shot, is it possible to run our half-court offense through Bargnani? …have him, say, take control of the ball around the arc… and then run plays based on the matchup equation: Bargs vs. Big = iso; Bargs vs. Small = post-up…

Bargnani has the passing ability in both the post and driving situations to take advantage of switches, and can find Bosh down low… he’s the only true “match-up nightmare” that we currently have… wouldn’t it make sense to exploit that as much as possible? This way, Bosh could play off-ball, and essentially be a secondary scoring option, despite him commanding more attention than Bargnani.

We could then fill out our roster with a glass-cleaning big that can guard the 3, and a defensive stopper at the off-guard who can drain an open three-pointer.

If we can re-sign Marion and Pops, bring over Delfino, and use the MLE on a defensive-minded shooting guard, does that give us enough surrounding the Bosh/Bargnani combo to make this strategy effective? What else would we need (if anything)?

I’m (clearly) intrigued by the possibility of using Bargs as a point-center… but does Bargnani even have what it takes to shoulder the load as a no.1 option? Would Bosh be fine with possibly fewer touches and a more aggressive defensive role? Can this work?

[Kabookalu]

Bargnani's basketball IQ is very underrated and it hasn't been properly utilized in our system. He himself has said that he wants to be more of a passer but isn't in a position to do so. Like Rashard Lewis in Orlando, he's used on the tail end of plays to punish defenders when they try to double Bosh. I'm very open to the idea though and it's why I'm not that concerned over Bosh leaving; Bargnani wouldn't make a bad first option himself. I'd expect him to struggle a lot at first, but then he'd eventually adjust to it and would blossom. Though I don't think he needs to be our first option immediately; Pippen was the point forward for the Bulls but Jordan was still the main man.

Though the concept of a point center has never existed to my knowledge (except for maybe Wilt). Bringing this idea up is going to be ground shattering for Bargnani and the future of the team.

[Realm_G]

While he is good at passing, he is no Divac.

While he is good at dribbling, he is no [insert big man that has good handles].

It's an interesting idea, but Bargnani just doesn't seem to fit that role.

[Kabookalu]

While he is good at passing, he is no Divac.

While he is good at dribbling, he is no [insert big man that has good handles].

It's an interesting idea, but Bargnani just doesn't seem to fit that role.

Divac is one of the best passing centers ever, there's no shame in not being as good as Divac as a passer. It would still work imo, and Bargnani is already more of a threat than Divac on offense.

And Bargnani has really improved his ballhandling the past season, there are very few big men in general that are better ballhandlers and no centers that are better dribblers.

[Undefeated]

Bargnani is definitely a very good passer and ball handler for a Center, although I don’t think he can create plays for others seeing as he needed someone this season to create the offense for him. Firstly, I want to see him creating most of his own offense, than I'll see about playmaking for his teammates afterward...

[sh00n]

I think it's possible, for sure. If he keeps improving at the rate he's been going at, we could possibly see him doing so in 2 seasons.

[Ong_dynasty]

While he is good at passing, he is no Divac.

While he is good at dribbling, he is no [insert big man that has good handles].

It's an interesting idea, but Bargnani just doesn't seem to fit that role.

you make it look like he can't improve especially if they practice it and do it in the games every now and then...
I am not saying we do this as much as the magic do with Turk...But imagine the mismatches if you try a pick and roll with him with say calderon or a decent sg..if they switch its a mismatch in which he should be able to either just shoot over him or post him..
if they don't its an open 3..(which we know he can hit in a consistent basis)...
I think it's something our coaching staff should be thinking especially after seeing hedo do it with success in the playoffs..if they havn't id be worried about the bball iq of our staff

[Hendrix]

Bargnani isn't near good enough to be plying point, and handeling the ball regularly around the arc. He's a good ball handler for a C, but that's not really saying much. When evaluating what he would actually need to do to play point, and not just compare his ball handleing to C's. He's really bad at changing direction. He's not a very good decision maker on the move from the perimiter. He's not particularly good at finishig around the basket off the dribble. \

Meh I just don't see him handleing the ball that much.

[djsunyc]

i think bargs gets a bigger role next season and it will include running some of the offense through him. i think he is a very willing passer and he will only help facilitate ball movement.

[_venom_]

I don't even know where people are getting all this "Bargnani is a great passer" stuff. He is certainly not a great passer and he doesn't have great vision. He can make a nice pass once in a while but he's pretty much on par with most centers. I actually think he didn't pass enough last season when he plenty of opportunities to do so.

[Schad]

Bargs is actually a pretty unwilling passer...on the edge of the bottom 5% league-wide in assist rate, actually. I think this is a truly bad idea, honestly.

[Salted Meat]

Bargnani isn't near good enough to be plying point, and handeling the ball regularly around the arc. He's a good ball handler for a C, but that's not really saying much. When evaluating what he would actually need to do to play point, and not just compare his ball handleing to C's. He's really bad at changing direction. He's not a very good decision maker on the move from the perimiter. He's not particularly good at finishig around the basket off the dribble.

But of any Center, is there anyone better than Bargnani at switching directions?

I think that through the second half of the season, Bargnani showed a lot of improvement in his dribbling and finishing skills. Granted, he certainly can improve his handles, and learn to soften his lay-ups, but those should be things he'd be more than capable of improving on... I mean, Bargnani bulked up a significant amount, and learned to adequately defend a new position in 3 years... one of those years where he was suffering a respiratory problem...

and defense was his most significant weakness...

but scoring and dribbling are things Bargnani is already pretty good at... given his successful transition to the 5 position, and learning to play decent 1 on 1 defense, it's not insane to suggest a move to point-center on offense would be markedly less drastic a transition for him...

[lemondrop]

I don't even know where people are getting all this "Bargnani is a great passer" stuff. He is certainly not a great passer and he doesn't have great vision. He can make a nice pass once in a while but he's pretty much on par with most centers. I actually think he didn't pass enough last season when he plenty of opportunities to do so.

Maybe he wasn't asked to be a facilitator in our offense, we wanted him to socre. I think when he did try or was asked to facilitate he showed those flashes you talk about. One thing that would make him a good point-center is he is alot quicker in making decisions than Chris Bosh, when he gets it he reacts quickly its either pass or score, there is no waiting around allowing the defense to set like when Bosh gets it.

I'd rather get a player than can make things happen at the shooting guard position and take away Jose's passiveness over making Bargnani the main ball handler but I would definitely have him setting up the offense over Bosh any day of the week mainly because with Bosh the offense gets bogged down all to often.

[vulture]

Bargs is actually a pretty unwilling passer...on the edge of the bottom 5% league-wide in assist rate, actually. I think this is a truly bad idea, honestly.

Stop it, you with your logic and all!

[Undefeated]

I don't even know where people are getting all this "Bargnani is a great passer" stuff. He is certainly not a great passer and he doesn't have great vision. He can make a nice pass once in a while but he's pretty much on par with most centers.

What I meant by "good passer" is that he knows where his teammates are at times, executing the right pass resulting in less turnovers compare to most centers (i.e. Yao, Dwight and Nene)...

[Hendrix]

But of any Center, is there anyone better than Bargnani at switching directions?

Probably not. But there's no point center's either.


I

think that through the second half of the season, Bargnani showed a lot of improvement in his dribbling and finishing skills. Granted, he certainly can improve his handles, and learn to soften his lay-ups, but those should be things he'd be more than capable of improving on... I mean, Bargnani bulked up a significant amount, and learned to adequately defend a new position in 3 years... one of those years where he was suffering a respiratory problem...
.

He definitily improved in those areas. But he's still miles away from being able to create consistantly out on the perimiter. I mean there's hardley any point SF's around the league let alone point 7 footer's.

[The Notic]

no. how about we don't run our offense through the 3rd best player on the team? how's that for a strategy???

[djsunyc]

Bargs is actually a pretty unwilling passer...on the edge of the bottom 5% league-wide in assist rate, actually. I think this is a truly bad idea, honestly.

assists is not the tell all sign for passing. he does not pass up open shots - as nobody on the raptors should. but he does move the ball within the offense when he is not open.

[Salted Meat]

I don't even know where people are getting all this "Bargnani is a great passer" stuff. He is certainly not a great passer and he doesn't have great vision. He can make a nice pass once in a while but he's pretty much on par with most centers. I actually think he didn't pass enough last season when he plenty of opportunities to do so.

Maybe he wasn't asked to be a facilitator in our offense, we wanted him to socre. I think when he did try or was asked to facilitate he showed those flashes you talk about. One thing that would make him a good point-center is he is alot quicker in making decisions than Chris Bosh, when he gets it he reacts quickly its either pass or score, there is no waiting around allowing the defense to set like when Bosh gets it.

I'd rather get a player than can make things happen at the shooting guard position and take away Jose's passiveness over making Bargnani the main ball handler but I would definitely have him setting up the offense over Bosh any day of the week mainly because with Bosh the offense gets bogged down all to often.

That's something i like too about the few times we did run the offense through Bargnani- things seemed to run faster. it's not to take away anything from Bosh, because in order (i think) for this to work, Bargnani can't immediately be the defense's number one concern... so Bosh is essential to the idea...

...and I'd assume that as Bargnani's fluidity increases, and he becomes accustomed to the role, he could be more than adequate...

this idea isn't to take away from a more traditional offense, but I'm at a loss as to how we can be successful with the players we have, without running through Bargs. it's the one thing that i think our team can offer as an opponent that might be something of a challenge for defenses, because our pick & roll was taken away when Calderon lost the ability to turn the corner, and our Bosh iso's and drive/kicks were taken away with simple defensive schemes that forced us into settling for midrange jumpers...

and i think that if Bargnani can make this transition, that he could definitely become like the player Colangelo envisioned when he drafted him: an inside/outside game on offense like Nowitzki, but also a legitimate defensive presence... and we'd have someone to take the pressure off Bosh, allowing Chris to establish himself more on the defensive end...

and if you re-sign Marion, he'd be a great third option as a cutter. We'd have a dynamic, original offensive scheme that few (if any) defenses would be able to match up against.

[AWill20Fan]

I don't even know where people are getting all this "Bargnani is a great passer" stuff. He is certainly not a great passer and he doesn't have great vision. He can make a nice pass once in a while but he's pretty much on par with most centers.

What I meant by "good passer" is that he knows where his teammates are at times, executing the right pass resulting in less turnovers compare to most centers (i.e. Yao, Dwight and Nene)...

I agree. I go to a lot of Raps games (probably 200 or so since I started getting my mini pack every year) and I have definately noticed Bargnani does have a good ability to make the extra pass and usually shows he has good vision. It depends on the situation, but when they are on the break or he his penetrating to the rim he has a VERY good ability to recognizing moving/open teammates around him.

I like the TS idea, and it's not like its suggesting he take over Calderon as the main ball handler or anything. Just in some situations they can take advantage of the fact he has above average dribbling skills for a 7 footer and also possesses good passing ability.