Smith: Draft will be a failure if Raps get backup PG at 9

[Anatomize]

The Iggy / TWill comparison was discussed a while back

this site came up as part of the discussion
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compar ... vans#chart

Its obvious Iggy was on another level and his growth compared to TWill is just not comparable. Evans and Harden are similar. TWill is just not on that level

WHAT??

Did you even look at the stats?

Look how close their stats are..

The only big difference is FT %, and T-Will has more 3's, more assists, more rebounds, steals, blocks and a bunch of other stats ahead of Iguodala..

He averaged 2 less PPG, and yes he isnt as efficient offensively but with more attempts he shot only 2 less %.. I really don't see what the line graph proves when you actually sit and compare their stats side by side.

Can't improve? the line graph shows an ascension only for T-Will near the end where as the other players were offensive ratings were declining. Also in their peaks in january, he had the highest peak.

I don't see how this proves anything.

comparing Soph to Soph

In more mins, more possessions, with more shots, TWill avg less points, a much worse Off Rating, less rebounds per game, less assists per game, less steals per game, but more blocks

So all you basically said there was that T-Will's numbers across the board (aside from offense) improved tremendously as a senior, he was able to improve his stats in nearly EVERY single category aside from scoring and did become a much better 3 point shooter. in one year, this is a solid improvement. Let's not forget, T-Will is 21 turning 22 in a few days.

[pspot]

So all you basically said there was that T-Will's numbers across the board (aside from offense) improved tremendously as a senior, he was able to improve his stats in nearly EVERY single category aside from scoring; in 1 year, this is a solid improvement. Let's not forget, T-Will is 21 turning 22 in a few days.

yeah I think TWill is a solid prospect, I like that he also brings toughness and has a head on his shoulders. He improved all through college and should be a nice player that I would definetely consider in the later lottery. IMO he's not the same type of propsect that Iggy was and most likely won't turn out to be as good a pro. He may but based on this I'd say he won't.

[Anatomize]

So all you basically said there was that T-Will's numbers across the board (aside from offense) improved tremendously as a senior, he was able to improve his stats in nearly EVERY single category aside from scoring; in 1 year, this is a solid improvement. Let's not forget, T-Will is 21 turning 22 in a few days.

yeah I think TWill is a solid prospect, I like that he also brings toughness and has a head on his shoulders. He improved all through college and should be a nice player that I would definetely consider in the later lottery. IMO he's not the same type of propsect that Iggy was and most likely won't turn out to be as good a pro. He may but based on this I'd say he won't.

I'm more so using Iguodala as a base, not as they will have the exact same type of career. I don't think T-Will has the 'take over' mentality that Iguodala presents on offense; but I do like his role player potential offensively. Particularly, the way he fits into our offense.

Looking at how good he is as a multi cat threat, I see him as a winning shooting guard, as opposed to an offensive minded guy.

[Undefeated]

Iguodala never had the "take over" mentality as well when he first entered the league.

[brownbobcat]

While I agree that SG/SF is our biggest need, it should come down to who is available at our pick. If Derozan is gone, and Flynn/Holiday are still there, I'd rather select one of them than the alternatives at SG (Henderson, Williams).

Doug never said any different. He never said that if DD, Evans, or even Henderson, are gone that you take a worse player over a backup pg - he just said that it would be a failed draft. I agree with that. We know our biggest problem is atleticism, defence and penetration from the wings. If were unable to address that in the draft, because theyre gone so we take the BPA who is a pg, that is a failure. The best solution to the problem, but still a failure.

I agree with your line of reasoning, but not Doug's. He's clearly saying that drafting a PG would be the wrong move, not that it's the lesser of two evils. Based on past ineptness, I wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt. I agree that coming out of the draft without a serious upgrade at the wing would be disappointing, though perhaps unavoidable.

[Anatomize]

Iguodala never had the "take over" mentality as well when he first entered the league.

I disagree, I think it was overshadowed by Allen iverson.

[5DOM]

So all you basically said there was that T-Will's numbers across the board (aside from offense) improved tremendously as a senior, he was able to improve his stats in nearly EVERY single category aside from scoring; in 1 year, this is a solid improvement. Let's not forget, T-Will is 21 turning 22 in a few days.

yeah I think TWill is a solid prospect, I like that he also brings toughness and has a head on his shoulders. He improved all through college and should be a nice player that I would definetely consider in the later lottery. IMO he's not the same type of propsect that Iggy was and most likely won't turn out to be as good a pro. He may but based on this I'd say he won't.

+1. Also Williams' team is much better than Iggy's team a few years ago.
Just ask Corey Brewer how much being in a very good college team helps your draft stock.

[Undefeated]

Iguodala never had the "take over" mentality as well when he first entered the league.

I disagree, I think it was overshadowed by Allen iverson.

From what I watched, he didn't show it either when he was at Arizona.
At least Williams has shown spurts of leading his team at Louisville.

[Anatomize]

So hypothetically speaking: Let's say DeRozan is now off the board and we're left with a choice of Flynn/Holiday/Henderson/Terrence Williams

Who do you guys take?

[Undefeated]

I am fine with either Holiday or Williams.

[pspot]

In order

Holiday most upside and would compliment Jose pretty well. could develope into a starting SG and back up PG

Flynn great character , competitor that is comfortable with Canada safest pick

TWill adds toughness and all around complimentory player

Henderson underrated? but again more of a complimentory player but less toughness

[LLJ]

We should draft BPA, be he PG, PF or SG/C/SF.

But we should make sure he has definite ability to be heads and tails above our starters in those positions if we do.

[MoneyBall]

DeRozan wouldn't fill any more of a need then Flynn would... sure, DeRozan is a wing player, but he won't provide us with any significant production from that spot. Flynn on the other hand can not only create open shots for himself and his teammates, but he's also terrific at breaking down the defense and getting to the line (as he also adds toughness to the team). DeRozan doesn't do any of those things yet, and for all we know, he might never be able to. Flynn is more then just a safe pick, he also has great upside too. Doug isn't exactly the brightest bulb in the tanning bed.

[hkr]

Why is Flynn considered a "safe" pick? He's a 6 foot point guard with questionable overall PG skills. He's fast and can break down defense well, but those traits work better when you're a taller combo guard. For someone who was considered so athletic, he was pretty poor in rebounding and steals as well. I just don't see how he's a clear BPA or the safest PG pick.

[Avenger]

DeRozan wouldn't fill any more of a need then Flynn would... sure, DeRozan is a wing player, but he won't provide us with any significant production from that spot. Flynn on the other hand can not only create open shots for himself and his teammates, but he's also terrific at breaking down the defense and getting to the line (as he also adds toughness to the team). DeRozan doesn't do any of those things yet, and for all we know, he might never be able to. Flynn is more then just a safe pick, he also has great upside too. Doug isn't exactly the brightest bulb in the tanning bed.

+1. I am shocked more people can't see this, DeRozan is the last guy we should be looking for given our biggest need is a guy that can get to the rim with his ball skills, create for himself and for others.

[hkr]

+1. I am shocked more people can't see this, DeRozan is the last guy we should be looking for given our biggest need is a guy that can get to the rim with his ball skills, create for himself and for others.

I think the Raptors' biggest need is rebounding and defense first. It'll be nice to have a creator but I suspect some of that want is aesthetic, not actual contribution towards winning. Obviously if the Raptors can get a player who can do both it'll be great, but that'll be tough. Potentially Demar COULD become such player, but it's a long shot.

On a related note, T-Will technically does everything I'just described(creating for others, rebounding, defense) and does them well, but I'm somewhat cautious of his poor overall offensive %. Still I suspect he and Lawson could be the most valuable instant contributors from this draft.

[Avenger]

+1. I am shocked more people can't see this, DeRozan is the last guy we should be looking for given our biggest need is a guy that can get to the rim with his ball skills, create for himself and for others.

I think the Raptors' biggest need is rebounding and defense first. It'll be nice to have a creator but I suspect some of that want is aesthetic, not actual contribution towards winning. Obviously if the Raptors can get a player who can do both it'll be great, but that'll be tough. Potentially Demar COULD become such player, but it's a long shot.

.

no its not, the raptors are an ok rebounding team, maybe even good with Marion. The single most important thing in basketball is having guys that can create offense, everything else needs to come second and raptors have a huge hole here

[Raps in 4]

I agree with Doug, we don't need another PG with our first pick. Flynn is far from a safe pick.

[hkr]

no its not, the raptors are an ok rebounding team, maybe even good with Marion. The single most important thing in basketball is having guys that can create offense, everything else needs to come second and raptors have a huge hole here

Both are the areas of need, but the Raptors definitely wasn't an "OK" rebounding team. The Raptors were about average on defensive board, and the 2nd worst on offensive board in the league last year (the worst was the Spurs who had the best defensive board%) You're right that with Marion they are a better rebounding team though, but for now are we sure he's coming back? Evans is now here to help us but he has averaged only about 20 minutes per game in his career.

Despite many forum members' opinion, I think if Calderon is healthy for the whole season and come back to where he was the season before, much of the offensive problems will be eased but then again that's an "if" scenario too.

[MoneyBall]

hkr, Triano himself stated that if he had a wish list, acquiring a player that has the ability to break down the defense and penetrate into the lane (creating many oppertunities for the player and his teammates) would be on top over everything else. He even went as far as saying that Ukic (note: not Calderon) was our best player last season in doing exactly that... but both you and I know that he's not enough, not even close.

As for the rebounding departement, we've already added Reggie Evans and we'll most likely add Delfino aswell (very few guards rebound at the same rate Delfino does). Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Raps in the top third of the league in rebounding after the Marion trade? The team's rebounding isn't nearly as big as an issue as you make it out to be.

As for defense, Flynn has what it take to be a very good defender (a helluva lot better then Calderon, that's for sure). I like Williams too (I'm a huge Louisville fan), but the guy would be a reach at 9 imo. If we could get him in the late teens, count me in (I also really like Lawson aswell).