toronto interested in ARIZA

Avenger · Post #81 » by **Avenger** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:34 pm

Ariza is a bad contract waiting to happen, anything more than 4 million per year is too much

basketball royalty · Post #82 » by **basketball royalty** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:38 pm

dacrusha wrote:I'd rather throw $9+ million at Gordon than $7+ million at Ariza.

Bad move IMO. I say keep Marion but if negotiations fall apart target Ariza because he would be the next closest thing to a perfect fit and still young and improving.

israeli_jordan · Post #83 » by **israeli_jordan** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:39 pm

Avenger wrote:Ariza is a bad contract waiting to happen, anything more than 4 million per year is too much

Who would you rather spend the money on if we can't sign either Marion or Artest?

Hedo is also a potential bad contract waiting to happen so I think Ariza ~= Hedo, but the upside is that he's only 24.

Hank_Scorpio · Post #84 » by **Hank_Scorpio** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:41 pm

A few thoughts

- Ariza is better than a lot of you seem to think. His game has taken huge strides over the past year. He is now a legitimate 3 point threat and has shown an ability to create his own shot. And defensively, he is fantastic - energetic, active, and very effective

- Having said that, he is TOTALLY wrong for the Raptors. On the Lakers, he is a perfect fit. On the Raptors, I just don't see it working.

In any case, I would be extremely surprised if the Lakers let him walk. They'd be more likely to let Odom walk than Ariza.

Avenger · Post #85 » by **Avenger** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:42 pm

israeli_jordan wrote:
Avenger wrote:Ariza is a bad contract waiting to happen, anything more than 4 million per year is too much

Who would you rather spend the money on if we can't sign either Marion or Artest?

Hedo is also a potential bad contract waiting to happen so I think Ariza ~= Hedo, but the upside is that he's only 24.

Gortat, Bass, Childress, maybe even Delfino

RapsGM · Post #86 » by **RapsGM** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:47 pm

Can we do a sign trade for Marion?

Ariza and Shannon Brown for Marion and maybe Ukic?

israeli_jordan · Post #87 » by **israeli_jordan** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:49 pm

Avenger wrote:
israeli_jordan wrote:
Avenger wrote:Ariza is a bad contract waiting to happen, anything more than 4 million per year is too much

Who would you rather spend the money on if we can't sign either Marion or Artest?

Hedo is also a potential bad contract waiting to happen so I think Ariza ~= Hedo, but the upside is that he's only 24.

Gortat, Bass, Childress, maybe even Delfino

I think the multiple years of mediocrity with this franchise has really gotten to some of the fans.

Gortat might be good but why would you sign him when we have so many bigs?
Bass? Joey Grahm 2.0
Childress is in Greece
Signing Delfino has no effect on signing Ariza

Ariza is obviously not the most talented out of the SF's available but he has a lot of upside and he's young PLUS he has nba finals experience playing significant minutes, unlike JK lol.

Hank_Scorpio · Post #88 » by **Hank_Scorpio** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:54 pm

Avenger wrote:
israeli_jordan wrote:
Avenger wrote:Ariza is a bad contract waiting to happen, anything more than 4 million per year is too much

Who would you rather spend the money on if we can't sign either Marion or Artest?

Hedo is also a potential bad contract waiting to happen so I think Ariza ~= Hedo, but the upside is that he's only 24.

Gortat, Bass, Childress, maybe even Delfino

Take Ariza over Delfino every day and twice on Sunday.

Kevin Willis · Post #89 » by **Kevin Willis** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:01 pm

Hank_Scorpio wrote:A few thoughts

- Ariza is better than a lot of you seem to think. His game has taken huge strides over the past year. He is now a legitimate 3 point threat and has shown an ability to create his own shot. And defensively, he is fantastic - energetic, active, and very effective

- Having said that, he is TOTALLY wrong for the Raptors. On the Lakers, he is a perfect fit. On the Raptors, I just don't see it working.

In any case, I would be extremely surprised if the Lakers let him walk. They'd be more likely to let Odom walk than Ariza.

Why is he wrong for the Raptors?

israeli_jordan · Post #90 » by **israeli_jordan** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:08 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:
Hank_Scorpio wrote:A few thoughts

- Ariza is better than a lot of you seem to think. His game has taken huge strides over the past year. He is now a legitimate 3 point threat and has shown an ability to create his own shot. And defensively, he is fantastic - energetic, active, and very effective

- Having said that, he is TOTALLY wrong for the Raptors. On the Lakers, he is a perfect fit. On the Raptors, I just don't see it working.

In any case, I would be extremely surprised if the Lakers let him walk. They'd be more likely to let Odom walk than Ariza.

Why is he wrong for the Raptors?

LOL I was wondering the same thing. After admitting that he's a legitimate 3 that can create his own shot and play defense-- isn't that EXACTLY what the Raptors need at that position?

I think he's a perfect fit simply because of the open court game that we're going to be playing.

ItsDanger · Post #91 » by **ItsDanger** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:09 pm

This is a buy high move. Not too smart.

Tha Cynic · Post #92 » by **Tha Cynic** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:11 pm

Ariza is a great player to have if the team that already had multiple scorers who can create and just needed a defender who can spot up and make all the hustle plays. This team's problem is that they already have a bunch of players like Ariza, but the cheaper version. We don't need more spot up shooters who can't create. Ariza is worth the money, but just not for this team. He's one of those guys all championship teams need. Toronto unfortunately is closer to the bottom, than the top.

gerrit4 · Post #93 » by **gerrit4** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:12 pm

israeli_jordan wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:
Hank_Scorpio wrote:A few thoughts

- Ariza is better than a lot of you seem to think. His game has taken huge strides over the past year. He is now a legitimate 3 point threat and has shown an ability to create his own shot. And defensively, he is fantastic - energetic, active, and very effective

- Having said that, he is TOTALLY wrong for the Raptors. On the Lakers, he is a perfect fit. On the Raptors, I just don't see it working.

In any case, I would be extremely surprised if the Lakers let him walk. They'd be more likely to let Odom walk than Ariza.

Why is he wrong for the Raptors?

LOL I was wondering the same thing. After admitting that he's a legitimate 3 that can create his own shot and play defense-- isn't that EXACTLY what the Raptors need at that position?

I think he's a perfect fit simply because of the open court game that we're going to be playing.

I'd love to have Ariza on the team. The question is, can he carry the team? Can he be a crunch time scorer? Time will tell, I'd be okay with signing him as long as we find a way to get some depth after the signing.

Hank_Scorpio · Post #94 » by **Hank_Scorpio** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:18 pm

What I mean is that he has thrived in LA because he is not a focal point on offense - he's got Kobe, Gasol, Odom, and even Bynum (when he's playing well) ahead of him.

On the Raptors, he would need to be more of a focal point, which I am not sure he is ready to do.

You also have to consider that the performance someone puts up on a championship contending team may not neccessarily translate to a team that is just hoping to make the playoffs in the East.

And anyway, as I said, I don't see the Lakers letting him walk.

Anatomize · Post #95 » by **Anatomize** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:21 pm

Hank_Scorpio wrote:What I mean is that he has thrived in LA because he is not a focal point on offense - he's got Kobe, Gasol, Odom, and even Bynum (when he's playing well) ahead of him.

On the Raptors, he would need to be more of a focal point, which I am not sure he is ready to do.

You also have to consider that the performance someone puts up on a championship contending team may not neccessarily translate to a team that is just hoping to make the playoffs in the East.

And anyway, as I said, I don't see the Lakers letting him walk.

That really depends on the player because here he would have a much larger role than an energy boost.

He was forced to become a better 3 point shooter because SFs in a Lakers triangle offense must be able to hit 3's (Rick Fox, Harper). The fact he improved so much on his jumper (criticized as being his weakest point) bodes well for his improvement in the future. This is a glue type SF which the Raptors are sorely in need of if we lose Marion.

How much more of a focal point would he be with Bargs/Calderon/Bosh as opposed to Kobe/Gasol?

basketball royalty · Post #96 » by **basketball royalty** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:30 pm

Anatomize wrote:
Hank_Scorpio wrote:What I mean is that he has thrived in LA because he is not a focal point on offense - he's got Kobe, Gasol, Odom, and even Bynum (when he's playing well) ahead of him.

On the Raptors, he would need to be more of a focal point, which I am not sure he is ready to do.

You also have to consider that the performance someone puts up on a championship contending team may not neccessarily translate to a team that is just hoping to make the playoffs in the East.

And anyway, as I said, I don't see the Lakers letting him walk.

That really depends on the player because here he would have a much larger role than an energy boost.

He was forced to become a better 3 point shooter because SFs in a Lakers triangle offense must be able to hit 3's (Rick Fox, Harper). The fact he improved so much on his jumper (criticized as being his weakest point) bodes well for his improvement in the future. This is a glue type SF which the Raptors are sorely in need of if we lose Marion.

How much more of a focal point would he be with Bargs/Calderon/Bosh as opposed to Kobe/Gasol?

There it is. At best, no matter who we can realistically add to the team, we shouldn't expect them to be anything more than the teams third option in terms of scoring. We have options 1 and 2 covered, we need guys who bring defense, hustle, athleticism and talent. Ariza does all of that so I mos def see a spot for him here if negotiations with Marion break down.

Prop · Post #97 » by **Prop** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:47 pm

i don't think some of you realize that you need to pay good players if you want them on your team.

i don't know how many times i've read something like "oh he'd be great here but i wouldn't pay him X". x usually being the assumed asking price.

it's pretty funny.

israeli_jordan · Post #98 » by **israeli_jordan** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:04 pm

Prop wrote:i don't think some of you realize that you need to pay good players if you want them on your team.

i don't know how many times i've read something like "oh he'd be great here but i wouldn't pay him X". x usually being the assumed asking price.

it's pretty funny.

that's EXACTLY what i'm saying. i dont udnerstand the logic of ignoring the possibility of perhaps slightly overpaying for a legitimate talent and signing scrubs like Marquis Daniels and Matt Barnes.

Anatomize · Post #99 » by **Anatomize** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:09 pm

Overpaying them is also competitive with the other GMs.. you're just outbidding for their services .. (sometimes.. not *cough Kapono)

Quiet-Storm · Post #100 » by **Quiet-Storm** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:54 pm

a)
La not getting rid of Ariza. The goal of most teams is to aquire talent. LA already has talent. Their goal is to keep their talent. They will do everything in their power to resign Ariza and Odom. They even traded their draft picks for this year in exchange for cash. That is how badly they want to make sure they resign odom and ariza.

b)
I don't particularly wan't ariza here. Right now his value is sky high and quite over-rated. He is a great great role-player, but a role-player nonetheless. In addition, he has really looked good because of who he is playing with. Teams are scrambling to defend kobe/gasol/odom, and it makes ariza look good when all he has to do is hit wide wide open shots. His defense is all-star though.

Buy low, buy low, buy low.
Not
Buy high

Thats how you get better. Lakers got ariza for dirt cheap from orlando. Thats how you improve. Look for players who people have lost faith in who you think have upside and sign them.