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The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem

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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#41 » by appel » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:32 am

J-Roc wrote:So the solution to Bosh-Bargs is not to trade one, but to get one to completely change his game and become a different player. God help us.


Not a different player, a more complete player
Bosh has a good jump shot and he can be effective if not doubled
He must only share the ball and defend at his best
10 PPG is very low, he can score easy 16-18 defending too
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#42 » by TheMainEvent » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:55 am

Easier said than done.

You're pretty much saying that the Bosh/Bargnani duo would work if one of em changes his game -- in this case, Bosh. Uhhh, duh?
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TheMainEvent on Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:03 pm wrote:I say the Raptors win the championship in 2019.
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#43 » by SkywalkerAC » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:56 am

The problem, or problems, with the Bosh-Bargnani tandem have to be fully identified, first and foremost. Then you can go through each and address each of them.

Number one has to be defense. They've got to be above average for the team to be an elite team. They have to improve individually and the team defense around them has to make massive strides. There's absolutely no reason B&B can't be successful on the defensive end but Bosh took a step backward last season while Bargnani continued to inch forward to respectability. CB knows what it takes to be a solid team defender, I think a lot had to do with injuries and a losing season - there's no reason he shouldn't be above average at PF. Bargnani has issues with team defense, as a centre, but it's promising that he's capable on man as a 23 year old euro centre; smart team defense often evolves with experience and AB is just starting to get his legs under him. Physically, if they continue to mature and put in the work, there's no excuse for being overpowered by anyone but the titans of the NBA.

Both players need to be in a position to succeed. They need a system that doesn't try to highlight them as grind-it-out basket protectors and that makes use of their quickness without getting them into foul trouble. A full training camp with Triano and, more importantly, with Iavaroni should see them in good stead. You've got to think they're going to run an in-between tempo system that focuses on efficiency on offense (pick and roll break down and raining 3 pointers), getting back on defense (B&B have no , and defending the arc .

Then you've also got to fill in the gaps with the right kind of players, that can perform in transition and half-court, both ways. Turk can hold his own. DD figures to be a 2-way contributor from the get-go (in my humble opinion). JJ is a solidly defensive PG soon to be mentored by Alvin Williams. Then you've got your rebounding specialist in Evans, your defensive centre Rasho (fingers crossed), and your uber athletic, versatile frontcourt athletes in Pops/Petway (maybe both?). It's funny how short amount of time ago we were worried about depth and now I'm concerned about the shortage of roster spots, it's a nice luxury to have.

Rebounding has been the bane of Raptors existence for a very long time, even in the days of Oak and AD and co, always in fact. However, despite Bargnani's ongoing ineptitude, and the loss of Marion, I don't expect it to be a major roadblock. For one, Bargnani has made strides and should continue to develop as a rebounder, I firmly believe that - he's getting his balance, conditioning, and timing in order. Secondly, Bosh is no slouch. Thirdly, the Raptors have the tallest frontcourt in the L (at least top 3), they've come a long way from Mo Pete, Bosh, and Donyell. Thirdly, BC has actually surrounded B&B with some rebounders/athletes in DD, Evans, and hopefully Pops, Delfino, and...Petway(?). Again, there's no reason to think we won't have sufficient rebounding to get out and run and compete on the boards.

Those are the big two concerns for us all, I would think. Next there's inside scoring, where I think Triano and Bosh will both pay big dividends. I expect that Jay's offense, unlike Sam's, will actually get us good perimeter scoring opportunities AND easy baskets. I also expect Bosh to power up and dominate inside with even more consistency. Bargnani SHOULD be better at taking smaller defender to task. I've got no real concerns with our offense, run and gun and pick and roll and make em pay.

The last, and probably the least, concern with Bosh and Bargnani is the offensive distribution. This is not going to be an isolation team, it's going to be a dynamic, team-oriented, high energy and high octane offense predicated on the pick and roll. Everyone - Jose, Hedo, Bosh ,Bargnani, even DD and Delfino - are going to get their chance to create and feed off the creation or spacing of the others. I've got supreme confidence in the potential efficiency of our offense and have just as much confidence in our "chemistry."

Does the team concept around Bosh and Bargnani work? I think it should. Efficient offense, get back and compete on defense, and rebound. The only question is just how good or great the Bosh and Bargnani combo will be.

PS - no I didn't read the thread before writing this.
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#44 » by SkywalkerAC » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:59 am

edit - double post.
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#45 » by RaptorMan33 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:01 pm

To the OP. I actually read your entire post and enjoyed getting into your head. However, that is way too long. YOu seem like a guy who loves to ramble which is OKAY; however, may I suggest something? If you are going to write War and Peace, at least provide a Coles Notes version at the top.
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#46 » by teamLeiweke » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:02 pm

I dont know about avg only 10 ppg, I think he still wants to be considered as an all star, but I agree, if he can turn into kind of what KG has done in Boston, since he is surrounded by Pierce, Allen, Rondo, who fill it up, he focusses all his energy on defence, help D, pick and roll D, altering shots, blocking shots, rebounds, off reb..... that would be AMAZING!!!!

maybe 17, 13, 2 blks... I think CB coudl do that if he committed himself to D... like that game in Chicago I believe, when he needed 20 boards to avg 10.0 reb on the season, and he did it... I was SHOCKED, I was liek why in the world doesnt he do that every night!??!?!!?? he was soooooooooooo hungry, that upset me, that he can choose to grab 20 boards, and do it, he should choose that every night.

Anyway, with Turk and Bargs, Bosh can be apart of the offence, but I agree, if we are going to be elite, he needs to be a presence in the paint.
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#47 » by SkywalkerAC » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:15 pm

KG is a modern Russell-type, Bosh is not but can still close the gap.
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#48 » by vctmac » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:36 pm

you are right on the money, all bosh has to do is focus 100% on defence this summer and we win. Forget what hes good at, even if we focuses '100%' on defence it will still make him an average defender at best. Make him do 1000 side shuffles a day he still won't have that help side defence or defensive presence in a real game.
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#49 » by timdunkit » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:49 pm

SkywalkerAC wrote:Duncan is a modern Russell-type, Bosh is not but can still close the gap.


fixed*

Anyways to the OP, no ... you cannot simply have the best offensive (or 2nd best) PF in the game just forget about his offense ... Both Bosh and Bargs need to commit to becoming better defenders and I believe they can. Offensively, we look like we are going to be in the top 10 in the future. Defensively if we can become middle pack, we will be a pretty good team ...
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#50 » by v1n5anity » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:51 pm

CreaM wrote:Is anyone even reading this guys posts?


hahaha! I didn't..it's too long. :lol:
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#51 » by j3yuen » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:12 pm

what ever happened to paragraphs?
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#52 » by Rapsfan4life » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:14 pm

I stopped reading after you said Bosh needs to become Bill Russell.... not happening bro.
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#53 » by B_Unit » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:39 pm

Square peg, round hole.

Our team doesn't have a traditional core at the PF and C positions. We have a finesse forward and a jump shooting C. I've said this before, but I think letting those guys play to their strengths is better than forcing them to be players they're not. I personally think Darko Milicic would be a better player today (maybe not by much, but at least somewhat better) if he hadn't been forced into such a D-oriented role due to his height, and instead focussed on being a scoring big like Bargnani.

I think people need to let go of the traditional expectations of our frontcourt to some extent, since those things clearly don't matter much to Colangelo.
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#54 » by raptor21_85 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:26 pm

Derekman wrote:paragraphs ftw.

Paragraphs Appreciation thread coming soon
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#55 » by roundhead0 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:33 pm

The reason guys don't pull down 20 boards every night is because it's a lot of work. You may be able to do it here or there, but if you tried to do it every night you'd burn yourself out in a hurry.

Also keep in mind that everyone knew Bosh needed his 20 boards, and so a lot (not all, as some will recall) of the defensive boards that might have been picked up by someone else were left for Bosh.

Remember how everyone ragged on Vince Carter for jumpshooting so much instead of driving to the basket every time? A lot of people say it was attitude, but I think a lot of it was conditioning as well. It's a LOT less energy to pull up for a jumpshot than to make a sprint to drive past a defender and then leap high into the air, using your strength to fight off defenders. This additional athleticism/conditioning is what really helps separate good players from superstars. The superstars can keep doing it. Good players have fewer bullets in their gun before they start running out.
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#56 » by roundhead0 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:39 pm

To reply to the OP (and an apology for mixing metaphors): why have a leopard change it's spots into stripes? Why not get a tiger in the first place if it's a tiger you want?

Bosh's main value is his offensive ability. Why try to change him to a defensive player when it's unlikely he would ever be more than mediocre at it? Instead, why not simply bring in a player with the aptitude and ability to be a defensive big man? You can certainly get Bosh to improve his defense, but trying to mould him into a defensive stalwart makes little sense and wastes what he is actually good at doing.

If you had you two Ferraris but needed to haul stuff around, would you convert one to have a big cargo bed in the back for hauling stuff? You could, but that's a big waste of what a Ferrari is valued for. Instead you just get a truck to haul stuff around. It does the job a lot better and you don't have to destroy a sports car to do it.
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#57 » by Black Milk » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:57 pm

FUSION-HA
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#58 » by SilentRAM » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:11 pm

This is the most ridiculous solution I've heard so far. Bosh is a bonafide 20-10 guy. Andrea is getting better defensively and I really don't think Bosh has hit his ceiling yet defensively.

To remove Chris' offense out of his game is ridiculous. He didn't become an all-star because of his defense. Those two will be fine. It's our small forward/shooting guards that have caused us problems in the past and I think those needs have been addressed.
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Re: The Solution to the BARGS-BOSH Tandem 

Post#59 » by D-Wins-RingsIMO » Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:28 pm

yeah lets just take our beanpole high efficiency PF and make him into a defensive player so we can feature a lower efficiency player as the #1 option.

The solution is simple.

Keep doing what we're doing, win ~ 45 games and hopefully win a round in th eplayoffs for a change

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