10 reasons why Raptors fans shouldn't feel depressed

[Harry Palmer]

I just think everybody assumes that the core as it is will be the core for the next 5 years and that's what's depressing them: The idea that this level of mediocrity is going to stay the same and that we have to depend on internal development exclusively and the idea that nobody will ever trade with us for the next 5 years.

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I will say these things:

1) When the mediocrity stems from a mindset on high...and was therefore completely predictable, going back YEARS...there's little hope it will change all that much.

2) When the talent base is insufficient to contend to begin with, and we're facing losing the biggest part of that base with, at best, a 60 or 70 cent return on the dollar (and likely a lot less) AND we are locked in to many medium to large contracts which will restrict our ability to change much whether Bosh stays or leaves, it's bascially looking at which option we want: lower end mediocrity or upper end mediocrity.

3) When we're AGAIN talking about 'years and years' down he line, WITHOUT any significant move towards the patience it would take to infuse significants amount of young talent, and we're AGAIN talking about losing another franchise player after AGAIN wasting his years with us by trying to rush the job, it gets worse.

4) And, for me, there's the whole Cassandra thing. ****! And, more, wait until 4 or 5 wins from now, if they happen soon enough, when all the problems that exist will still exist, but will be overlooked in the attempt to whistle past the graveyard for another season or three.

[kush-]

Doesn't anybody wonder if perhaps Colangelo just went band aid this year in an effort to sign Bosh and that perhaps, if he's resigned, we'll be able to do other moves (involving big pieces) to shake things up? Let's be honest, fellas, the Cavs did the same thing bringing in Shaq. You could argue that the Heat did it bringing in JO to help them just enough to not be terrible while retaining flexability to show Wade the bigger picture for 2010. This is a star's league and all of the teams I just mentioned did what they could this offseason to make their situations more favorable for their stars.

I look at it like this and I bet Colangelo, to a certain extent did too, though he'd never admit it for obvious reasons: We weren't going to win the championship this year (and neither were 15 other playoff teams). Let's put a fun team on the court that has a chance to do something in the playoffs and perhaps get past round 1. Then, sign Chris Bosh long term and see what we can do with our assets after that.

We could easily move a guy like Calderon or Bargnani in next year's offseason if we really wanted to and shake things up. We weren't going to win it all this year so perhaps our goal (unofficially) was be fun, make the playoffs, perhaps get an upset, resign Chris Bosh and then build from there. And if so... BC still has a chance of crossing off every one of those on his list and making us better next season.

Riley brought in JO for one reason: to use his expiring cap space to sign another max agent, most likely Bosh, Johnson, or Boozer (not max), over the summer.

And if Bosh does goto Miami, it would be BC's hand-wrapped present.

[gerrit4]

11. Leo Rautins is losing his voice.

??

Leo has been extra annoying this year, I can't quite figure out why.

[Jakay]

I had my own list to add, and HP, yours makes it more like mad-libs.

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I will say these things:

1) When the average fan pretty much always always hates...and is therefore completely predictable, going back YEARS...there's little hope it will change all that much.

2) When the fan base is insufficient to contend to begin with, and we're facing losing the biggest part of that base with, basically a NY market style mentality where nothing is ever good enough and moves are demanded for the sake of making moves on a daily basis which inevitably leads to: lower end mediocrity or upper end mediocrity.

3) When we're AGAIN talking about 'years and years' down he line, WITHOUT any significant move towards the patience it would take to infuse significants amount of young talent, and we're AGAIN talking about losing another franchise player after AGAIN wasting his years with us by trying to rush the job, it gets worse. Yup, (3) is pretty good as is.

4) "And, for me, there's the whole Cassandra thing." Always about women with you isn't it?
And, more, wait until 4 or 5 wins from now, if they happen soon enough, when all the same fans still complain endlessly about the same things, that possibly never existed or have been corrected, as this pedestal to lambaste a team they're supposedly cheering for.

[bychai]

OR, as Doug mentioned today, "at least we aren't the Nets".

i won't be surprised if the first win the Nets get is against us though

[kyphi]

I had my own list to add, and HP, yours makes it more like mad-libs.

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I will say these things:

1) When the average fan pretty much always always hates...and is therefore completely predictable, going back YEARS...there's little hope it will change all that much.

2) When the fan base is insufficient to contend to begin with, and we're facing losing the biggest part of that base with, basically a NY market style mentality where nothing is ever good enough and moves are demanded for the sake of making moves on a daily basis which inevitably leads to: lower end mediocrity or upper end mediocrity.

3) When we're AGAIN talking about 'years and years' down he line, WITHOUT any significant move towards the patience it would take to infuse significants amount of young talent, and we're AGAIN talking about losing another franchise player after AGAIN wasting his years with us by trying to rush the job, it gets worse. Yup, (3) is pretty good as is.

4) "And, for me, there's the whole Cassandra thing." Always about women with you isn't it?
And, more, wait until 4 or 5 wins from now, if they happen soon enough, when all the same fans still complain endlessly about the same things, that possibly never existed or have been corrected, as this pedestal to lambaste a team they're supposedly cheering for.

I don't believe it!

[Harry Palmer]

I had my own list to add, and HP, yours makes it more like mad-libs.

Lol, I'll see you and raise you.

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I will say these things:

1) When the average fan pretty much always always hates...and is therefore overwhelm every poll on the general board or PC board with their anti-Raps bias...there's little hope it will change all that much.

2) When the fan base is insufficient to contend to begin with, and we're facing losing the biggest part of that base with fans who support anti-critically, therefore removing any real incentive for the team to do more than entertain, Harold Ballard chuckles, and we look back to all the pearls of success this franchise has cast before the ungrateful swine of a fanbase who really have no understanding of the customer/producer relationship, and no justifiable position other than pay and cheer.

3) When we're AGAIN talking about 'years and years' down he line, WITHOUT any significant move towards the patience it would take to infuse significants amount of young talent, and we're AGAIN talking about losing another franchise player after AGAIN wasting his years with us by trying to rush the job, it gets worse. Yup, (3) is pretty good as is.

4) "And, for me, there's the whole Cassandra thing." Always about women with you isn't it? (I used to subsribe to Maxim!)

And, more, wait until 4 or 5 wins from now, if they happen soon enough, when all the same fans still complain endlessly about the same things, that possibly never existed and all the titles have clearly disproved, or have been corrected, as fundamental issues that have plagued a team for years are wont to do in 4 or 5 games, sort of like using Pledge!

[Reignman]

I just think everybody assumes that the core as it is will be the core for the next 5 years and that's what's depressing them: The idea that this level of mediocrity is going to stay the same and that we have to depend on internal development exclusively and the idea that nobody will ever trade with us for the next 5 years.

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I will say these things:

1) When the mediocrity stems from a mindset on high...and was therefore completely predictable, going back YEARS...there's little hope it will change all that much.

2) When the talent base is insufficient to contend to begin with, and we're facing losing the biggest part of that base with, at best, a 60 or 70 cent return on the dollar (and likely a lot less) AND we are locked in to many medium to large contracts which will restrict our ability to change much whether Bosh stays or leaves, it's bascially looking at which option we want: lower end mediocrity or upper end mediocrity.

3) When we're AGAIN talking about 'years and years' down he line, WITHOUT any significant move towards the patience it would take to infuse significants amount of young talent, and we're AGAIN talking about losing another franchise player after AGAIN wasting his years with us by trying to rush the job, it gets worse.

4) And, for me, there's the whole Cassandra thing. ****! And, more, wait until 4 or 5 wins from now, if they happen soon enough, when all the problems that exist will still exist, but will be overlooked in the attempt to whistle past the graveyard for another season or three.

Since BC doesn't seem like the rebuilding type you never know, a move here and there and he might luck into a combination that works.

I see our tradeable assets as Jose/Bargs/DD/Picks. We already have Bosh and Hedo on the roster so that's decent 1-2 punch or maybe even a 2-3 punch. We just need another high-impact player maybe at the 1 or 2 and a defensive C like Haywood.

TBH, if BC can just alter his philosophy slightly I don't think we're that far off but it all depends on what kind of value we get for the assets I mentioned above.

For eg. if Shinn would just cough up CP3 (unlikely) for the above package we're gold and we just built a contender over night. Even if we don't get a player of that calibre, maybe we go for two above average players.

Bottom line, I think there is an opportunity to turn this thing around without completely blowing it up. I mean, we even have decent bench guys in Beli, Jack and Amir. We just need that cherry on top.

[Jakay]

Harry, your (2) sense amended and my (2) sense are the ultimate double edged sword; they even share that one FANtastic commonality between the two of them.

[Harry Palmer]

Harry, your (2) sense and my (2) sense are the ultimate double edged sword.

Shall we fall on it together? (NOHOMOOKMAYBEHOMO)

[Jakay]

Maybe after breakfast.

I'm not sure I feel like taking on the masses on an empty stomach.

[Harry Palmer]

Someday we have to stop procrastinating.

[Jakay]

I've been meaning to do that too.

[Harry Palmer]

It's just never a good time. There's always other stuff to do that's easier/more fun, like watch Hell's Kitchen, or sign Hedo.

(DOVETAILHOMO!)

[Gold Chain]

Does anyone seriously get depressed over NBA basketball?

This is the same mid-40 win team it was in August.

[Jakay]

Well yeah, for the most part you're right. The mid-40 win team in August is a lot better than the mid 30 win team in July though. But what's your greater point? Or do you have one? My guess is you read enough of this thread and decided there wasn't enough pure hating of the team going on.

(good omelet)

[carlosey]

Good points DH

[Harry Palmer]

Does anyone seriously get depressed over NBA basketball?

I think you're already on a sliding scale of absurdity when discussing the degree to which we should and should not have emotional reactions to warching other grown men in shorts bouncing a ball and putting it through a hoop. The fact that we do it at all seems odd to the rest of the population who don't, so drawing lines within that rubric is probably a little arbitrary.

This is the same mid-40 win team it was in August.

Yeah.

[Double Helix]

Resigning Chris Bosh to the max is a better prospect by a wide margin than not doing it and that's from somebody who doesn't even think Chris is capable of winning a championship on his own.

Make no mistake though: Players like Chris Bosh do not grow on trees. The top players from Lebron's draft class bizarrely have become some of the best players in the entire league and will stay there for many more years to come not because there's a rotating door of talent in every draft class that always rises to the top 15 but because that draft class was one of the best of all time.

I've heard the argument that he's not a max player. My response to that is that the market dictates that. I've heard the argument that he's not the type of player who can win you a championship on his own and I agree with that assessment but that still doesn't mean that it's a better strategy to wait and wait and hope that somebody else will come along who has that ability. Signing him still puts us closer to winning than not and here's why:

We actually have some assets for once that could be moved for more talent/better fits. Say what you want about Calderon but there are GMs in the league who like him and see him as a fan favorite type. Bargnani, I'm sure, has admirers outside of Toronto now and more than a few GMs wondering if he could be a Dirk-lite in a situation where he was playing with a slashing 2-guard and not a slashing 4. Derozan was liked by enough people that I'm sure he's an asset.

Now, consider Bibby's impact on the Atlanta Hawks, KG/Ray Allen's impact on the Celtics, or Billups impact on the Nuggets. Sometimes, one extra all star can make all the difference and take a team from bottom of the playoff standings to top 4. It's entirely possible that a team might be looking to unload a big-time player for a comination of players that would include Andrea Bargnani and I think BC will consider that move if we make the playoffs and sign Chris Bosh. It's the next logical step towards building something if we sign CB4.

We brought Andrea in as an insurance policy/BPA for development into an asset. He's become that and if we sign Bosh he could easily be cashed in.

[Boogie!]

OR, as Doug mentioned today, "at least we aren't the Nets".

As bad as the Nets are, I wouldn't mind switching our roster for theirs. At this point you can see who the contenders/pretenders are. We definitely fall under the pretender category. At best our season will be over 1/2 weeks after the Nets.

What the Nets have we don't is hope. I actually don't mind seeing bad team play if there is light at the end of the tunnel. You get to see young players make mistakes but also them grow. And you have next season to look forward to. Right now as Raps fan what exactly can you look for to? Bosh might bail next season leaving us with mediocre players with guaranteed contracts. Even if he doesn't bail, we sign him to long-term contract which guarantees mediocre 3-5 seasons.

lol.

we have a young all-star pf, a young center putting up 17/6.5, a rookie sg, a solid pg and a veteran sf with championship experience along with young developing role-players off the bench and a sophomore head coach. not to mention we've had a tough schedule so far are still trying to find our groove and are 7-9.

the nets have a young center putting up 18 and 9 and a former all-star pg who is currently only putting up 13 and 6 along with young wing players a rookie and a bunch of other mediocre role-players, are currently 0-15 and are on the verge of firing their head coach.

and you would rather have their roster because there's light at the end of the tunnel? this is what you call being a hater.