Go for broke at the trade deadline?

[TheDunc]

Now that i think of it Ben gordon would look amazing here. Maybe Detroit looks to get rid of him already, id love to have him come off the bench as a 6th man

[Moginly]

Wow man we're really playing that good huh. Well in our case if we get a record like that we're going to be buyers during the trade deadline to make a playoff push. Also where does our DRTG stand now in the league.

According to Nba.com's recent power rankings, we're still last in the league in defence. Also, we went from 12 last week to 14.

-14-
21-20 Pace: 95.4 (13), Off: 108.6 (4), Def: 109.5 (30)
Andrea Bargnani had a nice weekend, averaging 23 points and nine boards while shooting 18-for-30 in wins over the Knicks and Mavs. He's averaging career highs across the board and already has more double-doubles (seven) than he did last season.

[ATLTimekeeper]

reignman - why bring up past raptors post season teams with this one?

there's alot of season left...and unlike those teams, we have a center that can score 20 and a playmaker at sf.

why bring up tj/jose when the team is so much more versatile and different today?

jack + jose are giving us 48 solid productive minutes at the pg spot. there is no dip unlike other teams that go to the bench.

imho, previous pg tandem performance has no bearing on our team today.

has caron butler ever help a team advance other than when wade/kobe carried him?

why commit long term to a sg when demar is developing? i don't want him coming off the bench for the next 2-3 years.

i saw don't trade our top 8 guys and revisit major deals after bosh's future is decided.

Most of these aren't strong points. Butler's got 2 more years left on his deal. That's a season and a half of DD coming off the bench, which isn't too bad considering we can't even play him during the 4th this year. He'll get the same minutes.

You take the ball out of Jose's hands, and give it to Turk. It makes him more effective, and gives you a better return on you investment. Back-up point guard has proven to be pretty insignificant in the NBA recently. The back-up point guards for last year's top 4 teams (Anthony Carter, Anthony Johnson, Boobie Gibson, Eddie House). We can make due with Marcus Banks and, I would say even Marco Belinelli could be groomed for that role.

[J-Roc]

If this team is rolling, we don't really have any glaring weaknesses at any spots. Obviously the crazy scoring 2 guard sounds nice, but the way this particular team is setup, we don't need crazy scoring from our 2 guard. Unlike other teams, we get the bunch of our scoring from PF and C. Other than the SG, your talking bench depth, and with Jose running the bench even the bench is all right.

[timdunkit]

Depends on the trade ... but a sheer talent upgrade where you know your getting the more talented piece, is a trade I make ... Buy Low, Sell High ... If we make a trade like Jose for Butler, it might take time to get adjusted to Butler but come playoff time Butler is going to be a lot more useful then Jose.

[Ari_Emanuel]

I ALWAYS want this team to go for broke and this year it seems we're primed to do just that. We have a pretty good trade asset in Jose due to redundancy at the PG position and I'd love to have a defensive stopper on the wing that's not a complete offensive liability. Also, although DD has been playing great, there is real chance that he is overwhelmed in his first playoff appearance. On top of that he's going to have calls going against him when D'ing up opposing wing stars like (VC/Allen/LBJ/JJohnson).

We need to get Caron Butler for Jose, I think it's just the perfect fit for us. Now it's upto BC to get the job done; hopefully without including Amir.

Can Caron play the 2? Or will we be starting 4 forwards + a PG?

I too want the Raps to go for broke, but acquiring Caron while Hedo is still on this team isn't a home run trade imo. And Kevin Martin doesn't play a lick of defense so it's hard to see that trade pushing us into the 2nd round either.

You know people keep talking about whether Caron can play the 2 and the answer is yes, on the defensive end. On the offensive end he can play like a 3 because we have 3 guys in the starting lineup that bring SG qualities.

- Jack can break down the D and get to the rim, he can shoot and he can pass.
- Hedo has a triple threat game as well
- Bargs is a pretty good shooter as well

I mean, think about it like this, is DD playing like a true SG right now? Of course not, he's basically a SF and it seems to be working fine. Now imagine a guy that can do everything DD can do but better.

I agree completely regarding your stance on Caron, although I would have some reservations about our play at the 1 with just jack. We are currently getting allstar production from Cack, and it will be an advantage as long as they continue to accept their current roles.

My position regarding other trades is this:

Unless we are getting Caron, we should stay the course. Demar = Caron in 2 - 3 seasons and Bosh isn't going to walk away from $30m regardless of whether we make it to the second round or not.
We are literally Demar's development, a healthy reggie evans, and further development from Amir away from being a contender. We need to play the best we can with what we have, play with consistency and convince Bosh to be patient for a few more seasons. By then many of the current powers will be too old to hang with us anyways.

[elitehunter99]

Most fans here could care less about the luxury tax...... BUT, trading Derozan would be a massive gamble right now...... Calderon + Amir Johnson is the most value I would be willing to give up.. If Derozan is included with those two, it better be DAMN GOOD VALUE.......

I'm thinking someone like Iguodala, maybe OJ Mayo (if Memphis loses their mind.....), maybe Monta Ellis..... Guys like that who have the potential to push this team to the upper echelon .... Not Kevin Martin (oft-injured, massive contract, redundant strengths), Butler (not as explosive offensively, his game may have started to decline)

[Dalek]

My only move would be to trade for Dantay Jones. He has a cheap contract, is an upgrade (defensively), and could be had for expirings like Wright, Rasho, POB. Indy may do it because they ahven't been playing him too much lately.

[Ari_Emanuel]

Most fans here could care less about the luxury tax...... BUT, trading Derozan would be a massive gamble right now...... Calderon + Amir Johnson is the most value I would be willing to give up.. If Derozan is included with those two, it better be DAMN GOOD VALUE.......

I'm thinking someone like Iguodala, maybe OJ Mayo (if Memphis loses their mind.....), maybe Monta Ellis..... Guys like that who have the potential to push this team to the upper echelon .... Not Kevin Martin (oft-injured, massive contract, redundant strengths), Butler (not as explosive offensively, his game may have started to decline)

On secodn thought, Caron may not be worth it either. My value floor for a deadline trade is Iggy/Monta. Pretty high standards, I know, but I am very bullish on this team with the young pieces we have now.

PATIENCE.

[Ari_Emanuel]

In this league... you can't be content... you need to show tough love.... and keep improving your team.... even if things are going well at that point in time.
I would explore all trades are an ace defensive swing (especially if we can keep DD out of the trade).... abosolutely anyone from our current bench is available in my books.

Playoffs is a different kind of game

I believe that was Orlando's mantra and look where it has gotten them...
Having said that though, we aren't as good as Orlando was last year by a long shot so i'm okay with certain trades depending on who we give up. Yes, anyone on the bench is available (including Cack), but we need to keep DD or we will regret it for decades.

[careful]

> BTW, this team is NOT playing like an elite team right now. At home they are good, but their
> performances on the road are still a problem.

Exactly. As much as I'm encouraged when I see them destroy middle of the road teams, I look at the Boston losses and realize we are still far from an elite team. We're definitely playoff caliber and we might be able to push a team to 6-7 games, but I still don't see us getting out of the first round.

The Dallas game was a step in the right direction, if we can hang close with the Cavs and Lakers, and beat the majority of those other teams in our upcoming stretch then maybe I might change my tune.

[Brinbe]

Yeah, don't think we should. We're not at that level yet.

[BigShotBob13]

I don't really see a realistic deal out there that provides a piece that makes Toronto a championship contender this year.

You guys DO know what "go for broke" means, right? I keep seeing "yeah but don't trade DD". Sorry, that's not going for broke. Going for broke means doing something like trading Bargnani and Derozan for a star player who is producing highly now, but who's contract is expiring and unlikely to resign. For example, getting Wade for half a season. THAT is going for broke. Basically you know that you'll fall off the end of the earth after the season one way or another, but in the meantime you get one good shot at winning it all.

BTW, this team is NOT playing like an elite team right now. At home they are good, but their performances on the road are still a problem.

Stats have said we are playing like an elite team and we have been performing much better on the road, only game is the IND disaster. Only team we've lost to in the nice stretch is BOS but we've been notoriously bad against them.

I agree with your going for broke sentiments though. It would take a killer deal and I don't think there's one out there. Even remotely close to being out there. We don't want to take a gamble like Shaq to PHX, we want more of Gasol to LA territory.

[plainballing]

Trade deadline date is Feb. 19. These are the teams we play before the deadline:

@ Cleveland Cavaliers
@ Milwaukee Bucks
Milwaukee Bucks
Los Angeles Lakers
Miami Heat
@ New York Knickerbockers
Indiana Pacers
@ Indiana Pacers
New Jersey Nets
Sacramento Kings
Philadelphia 76ers
Memphis Grizzlies

During the recent stretch, we've played like an elite team. If we continue to play good defence (DRTG: 105.4) while still overpowering teams offensively (ORTG: 113.3), we could possibly go 9-3 or 10-2 in that stretch, for a record of 30-23 / 31-22. The next 2 games after the deadline are New Jersey and Washington, so most probably we can expect a record of 32-23 / 33-22. At that point, we'd be heading to a 50+ season.

In such a scenario, should the Raptors break the bank (go over the luxury tax) at the deadline to make a push beyond the first round? Or play it safe to see where Bosh lands next year?

I just love the return of supersub! Always love his mathematics/stats post!

Anyways, I think we should add in more valuable piece and continue to ensure we ARE a elite team...hopefully...

[HighOctane]

Going for broke isn't necessarily an all or nothing shot. We can still try to make back contracts for the future which would be important if Bosh was here or not.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

I APOLOGIZE FOR THE CAPS BUT SOME OF THE THINGS SAID ARE BUGGING ME. SAYING WE TRIED THE TWO HEADED PG AND IT FAILED IS JUST DOWN RIGHT WRONG.

WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED WAS TJ CAME BACK, HE WASN'T READY TO PLAY, JOSE GAVE UP HIS STARTING GIG AND THE TEAM WAS IN TURN PUT OUT OF SINK. ANY RAPS FAN COULD TELL YOU THAT

P.S. I PERSONALLY FIND WE LOST THAT SERIES THANKS TO THE INJURIES TO GARBO. HE WASN'T A 20/10 PLAYER OR ANYTHING BUT HE GOT INTANGIBLES, HE DEFENDED HIS POSITION AND HE GOT REBOUNDS. HE LITERALLY DID ALL THE DIRTY WORK FOR A TEAM WITH SHOOTERS (IE) JOSE PARKER BOSH BARGS
HONESTLY JUST TRY TO ARGUE THAT, TRY AND SAY IT WAS ALL THE PG'S FAULT. THAT IS LAUGHABLE

NOT TO MENTION JACK/CALDERON IS FAR BETTER THAN TJ/CALDERON BECAUSE THEY COMPLIMENT EACHOTHER FAR BETTER.

OH YEAH WHO'D OF THOUGHT ONE OF THE BEST PG (KIDD) WOULD GIVE ANYONE TROUBLES. HE TROUBLES A LOT OF PEOPLE BECAUSE HES EXPERIENCED AND KNOWS HOW TO PLAY IN PLAYOFFS

NOT TO MENTION THAT WAS THE FIRST RAPS PLAYOFF SERIES WITH CALDERON BARGS BOSH AGAINST VETS LIKE CARTER KIDD AND RICHARDSON LIKE HONESTLY DID YOU GUYS EVEN WATCH THE RAPTORS.

OUR CORE IS A LOT MORE EXPERIENCED NOW AND WE KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT IN THE PLAYOFFS

[Raps in 4]

It's hard to make any move that would "push us over the top". The only ones that come to mind are for Martin or Butler. A healthy Martin might be able to make an impact, but at what cost? No way we give up DD or Amir at this point. Butler is more attainable, but he's been terrible this season. He'd barely offer an upgrade over DD.

[timdunkit]

I APOLOGIZE FOR THE CAPS BUT SOME OF THE THINGS SAID ARE BUGGING ME. SAYING WE TRIED THE TWO HEADED PG AND IT FAILED IS JUST DOWN RIGHT WRONG.

WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED WAS TJ CAME BACK, HE WASN'T READY TO PLAY, JOSE GAVE UP HIS STARTING GIG AND THE TEAM WAS IN TURN PUT OUT OF SINK. ANY RAPS FAN COULD TELL YOU THAT

P.S. I PERSONALLY FIND WE LOST THAT SERIES THANKS TO THE INJURIES TO GARBO. HE WASN'T A 20/10 PLAYER OR ANYTHING BUT HE GOT INTANGIBLES, HE DEFENDED HIS POSITION AND HE GOT REBOUNDS. HE LITERALLY DID ALL THE DIRTY WORK FOR A TEAM WITH SHOOTERS (IE) JOSE PARKER BOSH BARGS
HONESTLY JUST TRY TO ARGUE THAT, TRY AND SAY IT WAS ALL THE PG'S FAULT. THAT IS LAUGHABLE

There was a lot of reason we lost during that time ... it was mainly because of talent level. The raps team that won 47 games didn't have a lot of talent but had great depth and depth wins games during the season. During hte playoffs its a different story. Nobody is blaming the PG's but ideally, 1 great pg + back up PG > 2 good PG's. I'm not sure why people are so enamoured with having decent PG play for 48 minutes. During playoffs most superstars and starters play 36-40 minutes anyways.

NOT TO MENTION JACK/CALDERON IS FAR BETTER THAN TJ/CALDERON BECAUSE THEY COMPLIMENT EACHOTHER FAR BETTER.

TJ/Calderon > Jack/Calderon til further notice . Those earlier combo lead the Raptors to 47 wins with a roster that is a lot less talented then the one we have this year.

OH YEAH WHO'D OF THOUGHT ONE OF THE BEST PG (KIDD) WOULD GIVE ANYONE TROUBLES. HE TROUBLES A LOT OF PEOPLE BECAUSE HES EXPERIENCED AND KNOWS HOW TO PLAY IN PLAYOFFS

Again, talent > depth during the playoffs ... thats all it was. We saw the same thing happen against Orlando where Jameer broke out against us.

NOT TO MENTION THAT WAS THE FIRST RAPS PLAYOFF SERIES WITH CALDERON BARGS BOSH AGAINST VETS LIKE CARTER KIDD AND RICHARDSON LIKE HONESTLY DID YOU GUYS EVEN WATCH THE RAPTORS.

OUR CORE IS A LOT MORE EXPERIENCED NOW AND WE KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT IN THE PLAYOFFS

The nets had Jefferson/Carter/Kidd ... that was it! The rest of there roster pretty much sucked. I agree that experience was the case but so was talent. We simply had no answer for that trio ...

[deck]

The nets had Jefferson/Carter/Kidd ... that was it! The rest of there roster pretty much sucked. I agree that experience was the case but so was talent. We simply had no answer for that trio ...

You forget about Mikki Moore. If there was one factor that lost us that playoff series it was Moore absolutely shutting Bosh down.

[timdunkit]

The nets had Jefferson/Carter/Kidd ... that was it! The rest of there roster pretty much sucked. I agree that experience was the case but so was talent. We simply had no answer for that trio ...

You forget about Mikki Moore. If there was one factor that lost us that playoff series it was Moore absolutely shutting Bosh down.

Moore was a scrub ... but thats were experienced played in ... He did a decent job of holding Bosh but it was really JKidds double teams that made things difficult for Bosh.