Chris Bosh is going to leave Toronto because of this man...

[darth_federer]

I don't think Bargs is all that bad. Next to a defensive and rebounding big, a playmaking pg, and a scoring/slashing wing, he'd be pretty ideal at the 4 spot.

Also, considering his contract, he's actually a bit of a bargain when you consider what other centers are overpaid.

But yes - like other have mentioned - it's the fit that's messed up.

Why do we have to change our team up to accommodate one person? If that person is the problem, get rid of him. I dont even think Bargnani is the main problem. We need better perimeter defense because we re giving up drive by's too much. I think Bargnani defense would improve if he didnt have to help on almost every possession.

[B-Ball Freak]

Chris Bosh is going to leave Toronto because of MANY THINGS, this franchise is going down the drain and BC did the flushing

A BIG F*CK YOU TO YOU BRYAN

[Randle McMurphy]

Actually, it will mostly be because of Colangelo and his terrible team structure.

[ska]

Chris Bosh. Put any picture you like of him here.

[Kid Vicious]

I said it way back in June 2006....

This team should have drafted Aldridge with the #1 overall pick.

Imagine where we would be with a legitimate lowpost presence to help out Bosh...

[Dam]

Lowpost presence???
LMA???

LOL.

Please Colangelo...trade Andrea..

[Too Late Crew]

Bosh will leave becuase of THESE men


No Bargs was not the right guy to pair with Bosh. Bosh has always needed a tough low post guy to help him on D and rebounding..BUT if you really love Bargs like these guys do you can still make it work.

If you MUST have a non rebounding weak team defending perimiter center next to Bosh then you need a strong rebounding athletic SF. They went and got Hedo.

Well if you MUST have a weak rebounding defending SF then maybe you still have a shot at overcoming those issues by creating an athletic stomg defending creative backcourt. Nope didn't fo that either.

These guys have not built AROUND Bosh. Heck they have not even built around Bargs.

They didn't NEED to trade Bargs to save this thing (althought it wouln't hvae necissarily been bad). They could have kept Bargs and Bosh together and had some success. But they didn't do what was needed to compliment that pairing either.

Players for the most part are who they are by 24-25. its kinda silly to blame players for not being what you want them to be. Its entirley reaonable to blame the GM for picking the wrong players when everyone KNOWS what those players are.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Bosh will leave becuase of THESE men


No Bargs was not the right guy to pair with Bosh. Bosh has always needed a tough low post guy to help him on D and rebounding..BUT if you really love Bargs like these guys do you can still make it work.

If you MUST have a non rebounding weak team defending perimiter center next to Bosh then you need a strong rebounding athletic SF. They went and got Hedo.

Well if you MUST have a weak rebounding defending SF then maybe you still have a shot at overcoming those issues by creating an athletic stomg defending creative backcourt. Nope didn't fo that either.

These guys have not built AROUND Bosh. Heck they have not even built around Bargs.

They didn't NEED to trade Bargs to save this thing (althought it wouln't hvae necissarily been bad). They could have kept Bargs and Bosh together and had some success. But they didn't do what was needed to compliment that pairing either.

Players for the most part are who they are by 24-25. its kinda silly to blame players for not being what you want them to be. Its entirley reaonable to blame the GM for picking the wrong players when everyone KNOWS what those players are.

I agree with everything above. A tough, defensive minded SF would have been the ideal compliment to a Bargs/Bosh frontcourt. BC went 180 with the hedo signing and overpaid him to boot.

[whoknows]

you are the same guy who used to explain in numerous threads why we should keep Mike James.....

Guess what, you are wrong again.

It is time for this team to stop patching around a soft core player and instead change the core. This is the only way to have a chance at success.

[dacrusha]

All Bargs needs to do is play average defense and be an average rebounder... but he's not even close.

His help defense is possibly the worst in the entire league and everyone knows where he stands as a rebounder.

After watching last night's game, I would easily do a Mehmet Okur for Bargnani swap...

[Southward1]

I said it way back in June 2006....

This team should have drafted Aldridge with the #1 overall pick.

Imagine where we would be with a legitimate lowpost presence to help out Bosh...

Well that's not LaMarcus Aldridge I can tell you that much.

[Undefeated]

Colangelo should be thrilled but at the same time, he shouldn't have forgotten that he is the second coming of 'Mr. Inconsistent' or 'The Disappearing Man' a la Charlie Villanueva--in other words, he should have traded him at his peak for a glaring weakness that we oh so needed. Instead, we now see Bargnani struggling during the most important time in Raptors recent history and yet, we still continue to see a disturbingly unbreakable relationship between BC and Bargnani--something that will last for undoubtedly a long time with this Italian-driven franchise.

Why it that we think a defensive C is going to cover all the weaknesses? As long as the Raptors have poor defenders out on the perimeter, nothing is going to change one bit.

Don't you think Bargnani struggling goes hand in hand with the fact that he isn't getting as many touches? Bargnani is only averaging 12.3 FGA this month, lowest of the season. It doesn't help the fact that the coaching staff doesn't run plays for him if the Raptors have any chances of succeeding.

[The_Hater]

Bargnani is not the problem. It's BC completely misusing his assets and overpaying for guys like Calderon, Hedo etc. and terribly misjudging how this team would work. Horrible vision.

I hate to tell you but Bargs is one of those overpaid assets and being a rebounding/defensively challanged Center, probably the biggest flaw in BC's overall vision.

You're theory on what went wrong is correct but you're incorrect to exclude Bargs from blame.

[Dam]

Andrea with Sloan???...if only it were true

[Schad]

Bargnani is not the problem. It's BC completely misusing his assets and overpaying for guys like Calderon, Hedo etc. and terribly misjudging how this team would work. Horrible vision.

I hate to tell you but Bargs is one of those overpaid assets and being a rebounding/defensively challanged Center, probably the biggest flaw in BC's overall vision.

You're theory on what went wrong is correct but you're incorrect to exclude Bargs from blame.

Agreed...Bargs definitely isn't the source of all of our ills, but he's one of the biggest contributors. Right now, when you weigh for the players on the court for both teams, we outplay (not relative to our own performance...we actually outscore in absolute terms) our opponents with three members of the roster on the bench. One is a rookie, another is our big free agent signing, and the other is our former #1 pick.

When we're better off DNP-CDing two of our top three in minutes and three members of the starting lineup, we have one hell of a flawed roster.

[strangespot]

Ah yes, the blame Bargnani tirades continue...

Ever stop and remember back to when we had JO? Life was great back then, wasn't it? We were contenders, we had a real defensive big who was a perfect match next to Bosh. Oh wait, we weren't contenders, and JO was never really a great fit with Bosh.

Bargnani isn't the problem, he's not perfect, but he's not the problem. Ever think what would happen if we put Bargnani next to a defensive C? Cause I think it would work out better than it has when we tried doing so for Bosh.

Bosh plays inside but can't defend. Put another defensive big who plays inside next to him and he clogs the lane for Bosh and things don't work out too well.

Bargnani plays more from the outside and also can't really defend. Although, I think he'd do better defensively at the 4 (his natural position). Put a defensive big next to him, and he doesn't clog the lane, but instead he allows Bargs to be more offensive-orientated (take more shots) while he helps Bargs a lot more on defense.

Both these things point to Bargnani's strengths - more offensive focus and less defensive focus. Currently Bargnani is doing the opposite. He's forced to focus a lot more on defense (something he's not very good at, nor does he have the potential to ever be great at, or at least not to the extent that Bosh does - Bosh being more athletic) and focus less on offense (something that he's quite good at, especially for a 7-footer).

We tried accommodating for Bosh and it didn't work. Perhaps we can try and accommodate more to Bargs - not fully, but more so - and see what happens.

I agree with the above, Bargs is not being used to his strenghts. But, as I mentioned several times before, I am pretty sure Bosh/Bargs could have worked out IF the Raptors actually had the guts to start Bargs from the very beginning and let him develop as C next to CB. who cares about winning record... let him play through mistakes, let him get used to NBA as soon as possible, let him play against the other big guys. You had two young talented BIG guys (its rare to have just one nowadays) and you waste almost 3 years with Bargs playing him in different positions. Thats something I never undestood and probably never will...

[dacrusha]

Ah yes, the blame Bargnani tirades continue...

Ever stop and remember back to when we had JO? Life was great back then, wasn't it? We were contenders, we had a real defensive big who was a perfect match next to Bosh. Oh wait, we weren't contenders, and JO was never really a great fit with Bosh.

Bargnani isn't the problem, he's not perfect, but he's not the problem. Ever think what would happen if we put Bargnani next to a defensive C? Cause I think it would work out better than it has when we tried doing so for Bosh.

Bosh plays inside but can't defend. Put another defensive big who plays inside next to him and he clogs the lane for Bosh and things don't work out too well.

Bargnani plays more from the outside and also can't really defend. Although, I think he'd do better defensively at the 4 (his natural position). Put a defensive big next to him, and he doesn't clog the lane, but instead he allows Bargs to be more offensive-orientated (take more shots) while he helps Bargs a lot more on defense.

Both these things point to Bargnani's strengths - more offensive focus and less defensive focus. Currently Bargnani is doing the opposite. He's forced to focus a lot more on defense (something he's not very good at, nor does he have the potential to ever be great at, or at least not to the extent that Bosh does - Bosh being more athletic) and focus less on offense (something that he's quite good at, especially for a 7-footer).

We tried accommodating for Bosh and it didn't work. Perhaps we can try and accommodate more to Bargs - not fully, but more so - and see what happens.

I agree with the above, Bargs is not being used to his strenghts. But, as I mentioned several times before, I am pretty sure Bosh/Bargs could have worked out IF the Raptors actually had the guts to start Bargs from the very beginning and let him develop as C next to CB. who cares about winning record... let him play through mistakes, let him get used to NBA as soon as possible, let him play against the other big guys. You had two young talented BIG guys (its rare to have just one nowadays) and you waste almost 3 years with Bargs playing him in different positions. Thats something I never undestood and probably never will...

His strengths? OK... his shooting and... what? Nothing else comes to mind.

If we really wanted to play to Barg's strengths, we should've worked on his handle and passing skills and turned him into an 'instant offense' 6th man SF off the bench.

[gangstaff]

#1 overall pick
4 year career averages: 29mpg, 13.5ppg, 4.7rpg, 1.1apg, 1bpg, .439fg%, .375 3p%, ~$5.5 mil
Current season averages: 35mpg, 17ppg, 6rpg, 1.1apg, 1.3bpg, .476fg%, .368 3p% ~$6.5 mil

He has been babied by the GM, babied by our current coach, got a coach fired for "being hard on him".

He has played with an All-Star in every season in the league. He had a COTY in 2007. He has been given chances to play at SF, PF, and C at various times. He has played almost 30 minutes a game over the course of his 4 year career...plenty of time to develop and adjust.

And yet, he still sucks. His best skill is his shooting and yet his percentages are average. His nickname is "Il Mago" but he averages 1 assist a game. He plays Center and is 7 feet tall but pulls down 6 boards. And now he's going to be getting paid 10 mil a year for the next 5 years, when salaries after next year are going to go way down with the new CBA.

From the minute Colangelo got here, he has focused on Bargnani to the detriment of Bosh and our team. And now it is likely that Bosh will leave in FA. And even if he doesn't, the past 4 years have shown that the current combo of players are barely competitive let alone championship caliber.

I don't hate Bargs. I never have. He's just a basketball player, and I don't know what kind of a person he is. What I do know is that his play for the team I cheer for is detrimental to winning. I supported him fully in his first year and a half, until I had seen enough to believe that he didn't play hard, wasn't a C, and didn't fit in the starting lineup with our best player. He needed to be moved to a 6th man role or traded, and that still holds today.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Probably. I think Andrea's enormous regression in year 2 led to the terrible JO trade, and then Andrea's spotty beginning to year 3 led to the Mitchell firing, and then Andrea's strong play later on in year 3 led to the second terrible JO trade. A lot of assets out the door and a lost season.

All that could have been saved if Bargnani took another next step forward this year, but he didn't and even regressed in some aspects (3 point shooting way down, defensive rebounding and blocks slightly down). That being said, if Bosh really didn't want to play with Andrea he would've let it be known, but I think Bosh is probably an optimist and probably had some faith in Il Mago to make those improvements.

[strangespot]

Ah yes, the blame Bargnani tirades continue...

Ever stop and remember back to when we had JO? Life was great back then, wasn't it? We were contenders, we had a real defensive big who was a perfect match next to Bosh. Oh wait, we weren't contenders, and JO was never really a great fit with Bosh.

Bargnani isn't the problem, he's not perfect, but he's not the problem. Ever think what would happen if we put Bargnani next to a defensive C? Cause I think it would work out better than it has when we tried doing so for Bosh.

Bosh plays inside but can't defend. Put another defensive big who plays inside next to him and he clogs the lane for Bosh and things don't work out too well.

Bargnani plays more from the outside and also can't really defend. Although, I think he'd do better defensively at the 4 (his natural position). Put a defensive big next to him, and he doesn't clog the lane, but instead he allows Bargs to be more offensive-orientated (take more shots) while he helps Bargs a lot more on defense.

Both these things point to Bargnani's strengths - more offensive focus and less defensive focus. Currently Bargnani is doing the opposite. He's forced to focus a lot more on defense (something he's not very good at, nor does he have the potential to ever be great at, or at least not to the extent that Bosh does - Bosh being more athletic) and focus less on offense (something that he's quite good at, especially for a 7-footer).

We tried accommodating for Bosh and it didn't work. Perhaps we can try and accommodate more to Bargs - not fully, but more so - and see what happens.

I agree with the above, Bargs is not being used to his strenghts. But, as I mentioned several times before, I am pretty sure Bosh/Bargs could have worked out IF the Raptors actually had the guts to start Bargs from the very beginning and let him develop as C next to CB. who cares about winning record... let him play through mistakes, let him get used to NBA as soon as possible, let him play against the other big guys. You had two young talented BIG guys (its rare to have just one nowadays) and you waste almost 3 years with Bargs playing him in different positions. Thats something I never undestood and probably never will...

His strengths? OK... his shooting and... what? Nothing else comes to mind.

If we really wanted to play to Barg's strengths, we should've worked on his handle and passing skills and turned him into an 'instant offense' 6th man SF off the bench.

as hektor mentioned, Play bargs to his strenght would mean play him along side a defensive C and let him focus on Offense more then on Defense. Because he is first and foremost and offensive minded player.

and as for your second point, you could have, yes. But, since I dont believe that you waste a no. 1 pick for a 6th man, BC's did draft BArgs to play him at C, since he already had a PF. But that project really began only after Bargs 2nd year.