Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception

Moderators: FJS, Inigo Montoya

mavsaddict
Ballboy
Posts: 21
And1: 2
Joined: Aug 23, 2008
Location: Kingsville, Ontario
Contact:

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#61 » by mavsaddict » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:03 pm

Congratulations on picking up Al Jefferson. I've always been a fan of his especially in recent years and think way too many people are selling him short after one "bad" season that was more watered down then anything, after coming off an injury. The Jazz won't miss a beat as Jefferson will fill the role Boozer did and give you some things Boozer didn't have. A lot of people knock his defense which isn't as bad as his reputation and there are plenty of PFs who are 20/10 guys who aren't the best defenders...Boozer, Dirk, Bosh, Z-Bo, etc.
"I can be bought. If they paid me enough, I'd work for the Klan."
-Charles Barkley
User avatar
spoonhoops
Pro Prospect
Posts: 760
And1: 8
Joined: Apr 02, 2010

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#62 » by spoonhoops » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:11 pm

I am still on the fence about the Al trade, but the Jazz had to do something and that something was probably the best option out there currently. I hope Al can come in and actually play D and grow as a player since he is only 25 years old.
User avatar
DelaneyRudd
Senior Mod
Senior Mod
Posts: 104,137
And1: 9,340
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
         

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#63 » by DelaneyRudd » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:14 pm

I think the Jazz system will suit him well.
HolyToledo
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,110
And1: 1
Joined: Feb 08, 2006

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#64 » by HolyToledo » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:34 pm

dosborn_11 wrote:Does anyone have the text for Hollinger's article on the trade?


OK, let's start right from the top: Would you trade Carlos Boozer for Al Jefferson?

You'd at least have to think about it. Jefferson is three years younger and had better numbers over the past three seasons. He can play center -- Boozer cannot -- which allows the Jazz to paper over Mehmet Okur's expected absence and move Andrei Kirilenko up to power forward in stretches, where he's more effective anyway.

Jefferson's not a great defender, but neither was Boozer. Yes, he's probably worse than Boozer in this respect, but last season's particularly lead-footed performance was partially a result of his still recovering from knee surgery.

And the price is less. Jefferson has only three guaranteed years left on his deal; keeping Boozer would have cost at least five. Would you rather pay Jefferson until he's 28 or Boozer until he's 33?

Apparently Utah thought the same thing, because they effectively completed a Boozer-for-Jefferson swap Tuesday, using the trade exception from Boozer's sign-and-trade to Chicago to acquire Jefferson from Minnesota. The Timberwolves, in return, get two first-round draft choices.

As you can probably tell, I consider this a pretty solid endgame for Utah. Jefferson can coexist with both Paul Millsap and Kirilenko offensively, and while the former pairing might have some rough nights on D, they'll be a hellacious combo offensively. Jefferson will have to get used to more pick-and-rolls and fewer post-up isolations, but he can handle it.

The deal leaves the Jazz over the luxury tax, but not intractably so -- $1.7 million, according to the Salt Lake Tribune. Utah is close enough to the line that they can probably engineer a deal at the trade deadline, if not sooner.

There's also a good chance they could trade Okur for a wing player, especially if Kirilenko shows he can thrive at the 4. With Jefferson at the 5, Millsap at the 4 and Kosta Koufos and Kyrylo Fesenko in reserve, it would seem to be the next logical move. His injury status, however, could prove an impediment to such a swap until the trade deadline.

What it does likely mean, however, is that Wes Matthews is headed to Portland. I can't imagine Utah matching the Blazers' offer sheet and swallowing the luxury tax hit. They may also choose to pull Fesenko's qualifying offer, since that extra $500,000 could really matter when it comes to tax avoidance.

The picks Utah gave away are of modest value. While the "Memphis pick" sounds alluring, it will never be in the top nine, and if unused by 2015, it reverts to cash. The protections are top 14 in 2011, top 12 in 2012, top 10 in 2013 and top nine in 2014 and 2015.

The Jazz's own pick, obviously, is likely to come late in the draft … especially now that they have Jefferson. But the Wolves now have a decent stable of first-round picks -- the one from Memphis, the one from Utah and their own. This should make Minnesota fans feel slightly better when I remind them that the long-ticking time bomb called the Marko Jaric trade may cause them to owe the Clippers a completely unprotected pick in the 2012 draft.

For Minnesota, I can't argue with the idea of trading Jefferson. There was no way he could coexist in the same frontcourt as Kevin Love, and I'm a huge Love fan. Additionally, wiping away Jefferson's $13 million opens the door to substantial cap space -- they'll have it right away but may not choose to use it until next summer. Alternatively, they can adopt the Oklahoma City model and rent out their cap space in return for more assets. And two first-rounders never hurt.

Regardless, a frontcourt with Love, Michael Beasley, Nikola Pekovic and Darko Milicic will be a considerable improvement on last season's unit at both ends of the floor. The Wolves likely will spend another year in the basement, but one can at least see the kernels of a foundation taking shape.

The Jazz, however, are the big story here. They've kept the window open on the possibility of the Deron Williams era producing a conference championship. They've managed to come away from Boozer's free agency none the worse for wear.
Top 4 seed in the West!!! Guaranteed!!!
dosborn_11
Ballboy
Posts: 19
And1: 0
Joined: Jul 14, 2009

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#65 » by dosborn_11 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:50 pm

thanks.0
neverrelaxed
Ballboy
Posts: 21
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 12, 2009

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#66 » by neverrelaxed » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:38 pm

Image
User avatar
Ming Kong!
RealGM
Posts: 24,480
And1: 31
Joined: Nov 21, 2002
Location: Jazz fan in Miami, FL.

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#67 » by Ming Kong! » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:53 pm

Can he play center?

2009-10
PF: 16.3ppg 8.5rpg 1.6apg 1.6bpg (36 games/31mpg)
C: 17.8ppg 9.9rpg 2apg 1bpg (40 games/33mpg)

2008-09
PF: 20.9ppg 10rpg 1.6apg 1.7bpg (9 games/35mpg)
C: 23.6ppg 11.2rpg 1.6apg 1.7bpg (41 games/37mpg)

I'd say so, his best year, 08-09 he played center most of year, and last year he split time between both positions.

Al Jefferson's PER36 numbers last year at center: 19.2ppg 10.7rpg 2.2apg 1.1bpg

That's pretty impressive considering he had to be the first option, now defenses wont because able to focus on his so much, and he'll get the ball in much better position with Williams. The pressure of doing everything will be gone, and hopefully he'll be capable of playing like he did in 2008-09 with the 6 months of rest of the off season.

I just would love to see if he can get the blocks back up to 1.7bpg, anything better would be icing on the cake. He's more than capable of getting Boozer's rebounding numbers next to Okur, but next to Millsap he'll probably get around 10.

Regardless, this is the kind of center we've been looking for years. Offensively active, a great rebounder, and big body for defense. While he might not be a great defender, he certainly has the tools to improove in that area with his 7' 2.5" wing span.
User avatar
The59Sound
Head Coach
Posts: 6,363
And1: 917
Joined: Jul 01, 2010
   

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#68 » by The59Sound » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:17 pm

Holy Toledo gets all kinds of grief from all of us, so I feel compelled to praise the sound and articulately described argument of that post.

And thanks for the statistical breakdown, Ming.
R-DAWG wrote:Look guys, no matter what happens we know Fegan is a man of his word and Dwight Howard doesn't change his mind once he makes a decision.

The Quantifiable Connection: An Interstellar fan site.
http://www.quantifiableconnection.com
User avatar
DByrne86
Pro Prospect
Posts: 974
And1: 101
Joined: Jul 09, 2009

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#69 » by DByrne86 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:25 pm

AQuintus wrote:
Jefferson's style of play isn't conducive to ball movement (he tends to take 8+ seconds off the shot clock to set up his post movest)


You ever hear of one Karl Malone?
User avatar
The Sheik
General Manager
Posts: 8,466
And1: 0
Joined: Jul 01, 2006
Location: Irvine, Ca
         

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#70 » by The Sheik » Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:28 pm

The59Sound wrote:Holy Toledo gets all kinds of grief from all of us, so I feel compelled to praise the sound and articulately described argument of that post.



You want to thank John Hollinger for the argument and HT for posting it.
User avatar
horaceworthy
Head Coach
Posts: 6,650
And1: 250
Joined: Jan 17, 2006
Location: Ruining Fuddrucker's for everyone

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#71 » by horaceworthy » Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:38 am

Good move for you guys (Wolves fan here).

I understand the rationale behind Kahn trading him, but I'm a big Jefferson fan. Might have the best low post footwork in the league, few are better at creating something out of nothing on the block (although this ability sometimes leads to bad, forced shots). He's not a #1, but he should be a solid #2.

Coming off a poor season, but he was recovering from injury and playing in a system that was a bad match for his skills. He hasn't had much talent around him, playing with Deron should help that. He's only had a decent perimeter player next to him for short parts of two seasons. Once was 35-40 games when Pierce was healthy the year before the KG trade, and Jefferson put up about 18 and 11 and a couple blocks with a 58.5 TS% as a 22 year old. The other time was a span of time when Foye got hot, and Jefferson put up something like 25 and 13, and a couple blocks on a 55.6 TS% while leading the Wolves to a .500 record over that span.

He isn't a good passer, and his game sometimes requires him to be a ball stopper (he prefers to see how the defense reacts to him getting the ball before he goes about making his move), but he showed he was willing to try to buy into a system last year. He'll have to work on that and his jumper to fit in with Sloan, but I don't think he's the lost cause in this area some make him out to be.

Utah is the perfect situation for him, as it will provide structure on both ends of the floor, a legit perimeter stud to play off of, and having a chance to win most nights may keep him focused on defense throughout the entire game.

Aside from his DUI last year, he's largely been a solid citizen, he's done a lot of stuff around his hometown, and left money on the table when negotiating an extension because he didn't feel he was worthy of max money yet, so he just told his agent to get a fair deal done. He's also got a cool rolling thunder type voice, but that's just a fringe benefit.

More than just about any player I've seen, Jefferson looked to have been beaten down by all the losing he's had to endure (and I saw the post WCF KG years). All indications are he has a lot of pride, and getting traded to a competitive, stable team like the Jazz is the absolute best thing for him in terms of giving him a chance to reach his ceiling.

You guys have gained a ton of casual fans with this move, as fans in both Boston and Minnesota respect Al's game and (for the most part) the manner in which he's conducted himself. I'm really looking forward to seeing him play on a decent team for the first time, and I'm even somewhat glad he'll get to try and rub Kahn's nose in it a few times a year.


EDIT: Oh, and just an added tidbit about what Jefferson's supposedly been up to this summer. By all accounts he's determined to bounce back, and has been working out with his old trainer from Boston to get in the best shape he's been in, and during the season it was said that he'd spend time this summer working out with Olajuwon and Idan Ravin ('Melo's trainer).
"A while back,'' Cardinal said, "I took a picture of the standings and texted it to Love, just to bust his chops,'' Cardinal said. "He sent me a picture back of a snowdrift.''
User avatar
emo
RealGM
Posts: 10,765
And1: 4,732
Joined: Jul 28, 2008
Location: Carmelo Anthony's thoughts about ESPN: "It
     

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#72 » by emo » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:02 am

Two of my favorite players on one team (Deron/Al Jeff) :nod:

When my Knicks aren't on, I'll be tuned in for sure. :nod:
Image
Guano wrote:Will be interesting to see how this place transitions from killing Melo to turning on KP. I'm hoping Frank shows out so we can divide into Frank vs KP factions. That should be fun.
8305
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,412
And1: 602
Joined: Jun 11, 2009
     

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#73 » by 8305 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:18 am

I'm not a fan of either team and really haven't watched Jefferson much. When I've read about the problems Jefferson had in Minnesota it sounds like it centers around his inability to function in the triangle offense. My understanding is the triangle is built around ball movement and Jefferson doesn't pass effectively. I would think that would be a problem in Utah too. It always looked like Boozer was a pretty good passer.

Am I right in understanding that as a team one of Utah's biggest problems is its lack of length and athleticism defending the basket? If all that is true its hard for me to see how this move makes Utah better.
User avatar
Ming Kong!
RealGM
Posts: 24,480
And1: 31
Joined: Nov 21, 2002
Location: Jazz fan in Miami, FL.

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#74 » by Ming Kong! » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:38 am

I'm glad to hear about him working out with Olajuwon and Ravin. Dumping Koufos is GREAT, he was horrendous, and now we could retain Fesenko for a little cheaper too. How ever you look at it though, we have to dig into the luxury tax to complete the roster.
3960HOOD
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,912
And1: 79
Joined: Jul 20, 2006
     

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#75 » by 3960HOOD » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:49 am

HolyToledoot wrote:
dosborn_11 wrote:Does anyone have the text for Hollinger's article on the trade?


OK, let's start right from the top: Would you trade Carlos Boozer for Al Jefferson?

You'd at least have to think about it. Jefferson is three years younger and had better numbers over the past three seasons. He can play center -- Boozer cannot -- which allows the Jazz to paper over Mehmet Okur's expected absence and move Andrei Kirilenko up to power forward in stretches, where he's more effective anyway.

Jefferson's not a great defender, but neither was Boozer. Yes, he's probably worse than Boozer in this respect, but last season's particularly lead-footed performance was partially a result of his still recovering from knee surgery.

And the price is less. Jefferson has only three guaranteed years left on his deal; keeping Boozer would have cost at least five. Would you rather pay Jefferson until he's 28 or Boozer until he's 33?

Apparently Utah thought the same thing, because they effectively completed a Boozer-for-Jefferson swap Tuesday, using the trade exception from Boozer's sign-and-trade to Chicago to acquire Jefferson from Minnesota. The Timberwolves, in return, get two first-round draft choices.

As you can probably tell, I consider this a pretty solid endgame for Utah. Jefferson can coexist with both Paul Millsap and Kirilenko offensively, and while the former pairing might have some rough nights on D, they'll be a hellacious combo offensively. Jefferson will have to get used to more pick-and-rolls and fewer post-up isolations, but he can handle it.

The deal leaves the Jazz over the luxury tax, but not intractably so -- $1.7 million, according to the Salt Lake Tribune. Utah is close enough to the line that they can probably engineer a deal at the trade deadline, if not sooner.

There's also a good chance they could trade Okur for a wing player, especially if Kirilenko shows he can thrive at the 4. With Jefferson at the 5, Millsap at the 4 and Kosta Koufos and Kyrylo Fesenko in reserve, it would seem to be the next logical move. His injury status, however, could prove an impediment to such a swap until the trade deadline.

What it does likely mean, however, is that Wes Matthews is headed to Portland. I can't imagine Utah matching the Blazers' offer sheet and swallowing the luxury tax hit. They may also choose to pull Fesenko's qualifying offer, since that extra $500,000 could really matter when it comes to tax avoidance.

The picks Utah gave away are of modest value. While the "Memphis pick" sounds alluring, it will never be in the top nine, and if unused by 2015, it reverts to cash. The protections are top 14 in 2011, top 12 in 2012, top 10 in 2013 and top nine in 2014 and 2015.

The Jazz's own pick, obviously, is likely to come late in the draft … especially now that they have Jefferson. But the Wolves now have a decent stable of first-round picks -- the one from Memphis, the one from Utah and their own. This should make Minnesota fans feel slightly better when I remind them that the long-ticking time bomb called the Marko Jaric trade may cause them to owe the Clippers a completely unprotected pick in the 2012 draft.

For Minnesota, I can't argue with the idea of trading Jefferson. There was no way he could coexist in the same frontcourt as Kevin Love, and I'm a huge Love fan. Additionally, wiping away Jefferson's $13 million opens the door to substantial cap space -- they'll have it right away but may not choose to use it until next summer. Alternatively, they can adopt the Oklahoma City model and rent out their cap space in return for more assets. And two first-rounders never hurt.

Regardless, a frontcourt with Love, Michael Beasley, Nikola Pekovic and Darko Milicic wilbe a considerable improvement on last season's unit at both ends of the floor. The Wolves likely will spend another year in the basement, but one can at least see the kernels of a foundation taking shape.

The Jazz, however, are the big story here. They've kept the window open on the possibility of the Deron Williams era producing a conference championship. They've managed to come away from Boozer's free agency none the worse for wear.


Trading Okur for a wing would be great imo.
User avatar
OMagic1989
Pro Prospect
Posts: 896
And1: 0
Joined: Jul 05, 2007
Location: Altamonte Springs

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#76 » by OMagic1989 » Wed Jul 14, 2010 2:55 am

Magic fan in peace:

Congrats on a GREAT trade! IMO he brings alot more to the table than Boozer did for you. Sloan will coach him up and this will make you much tougher to beat.

I wish we could have got him.

Have a great season!
Magic fan since Inaugural 89 season.
HolyToledo
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,110
And1: 1
Joined: Feb 08, 2006

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#77 » by HolyToledo » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:07 am

no word or reaction from Jefferson worries me...unhappy??...he did ask to be traded...team a nice fit but some players never want to play in utah so im a little worried about this!!
Top 4 seed in the West!!! Guaranteed!!!
User avatar
DelaneyRudd
Senior Mod
Senior Mod
Posts: 104,137
And1: 9,340
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
         

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#78 » by DelaneyRudd » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:09 am

He is in Mississippi I think.
Worm Guts
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Forum Mod - Timberwolves
Posts: 26,101
And1: 10,529
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
     

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#79 » by Worm Guts » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:15 am

I don't think so. He was on local TV on Sunday, and Kahn mentioned how he had breakfast with him on Monday. I don't think he really requested a trade, but I think he'll fine with Utah.
User avatar
DelaneyRudd
Senior Mod
Senior Mod
Posts: 104,137
And1: 9,340
Joined: Nov 17, 2006
         

Re: Yahoo: Jefferson to Jazz done for 2 1sts and Trade Exception 

Post#80 » by DelaneyRudd » Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:23 am

Oh, so he was in Vegas because Kahn was there yesterday.

Return to Utah Jazz