So what's Gordon Hayward's potential

[kd35sneighbor]

Now that you guys have seen him his rookie year.

I was thinking Ginobili?

[Bullet]

That's what I'm hoping for. Between him and Favors, I believe Gordon has more killer instinct. And the Jazz need him to play at a Manu Ginobili level for the team to succeed in the future.

[kd35sneighbor]

BTW, I'm looking forward to good non-bias honest opinion.

[reapaman]

Honestly, I still think his ceiling is Mike Miller. He still has a ways to go to be the consistent shooter Miller was tho but I think he could get there. Actually he's kinda behind Miller in most areas of the game during their rookie seasons and their college career, so its a fair comparison considering they both came out after their sophmore season.

It's no knock on Hayward because Mike Miller was a valuable starter when he was healthy but honestly thats his ceiling IMO.

[Litany]

Gordon has a high ceiling and I think that Ginobili is the best comparison I have heard so far.

Hayward has all the physical tools to become a successful wing player in the NBA. He is 6' 8'' 210 pounds with a long winspan.

He is a great shooter and his numbers from beyond the arc were great in his rookie season. He posted a 48.5 FG% and a 47.3 3p%. I think that if he were to have more 3-point attempts his % would go down, but I think he will be a 40% 3-point shooter his whole career. One of the best things about his shot is is consistent stroke. He has a very similar stroke every time he shoots the ball compared to C.J. Miles who almost always has a different one.

He is also very underrated as far as his defensive abilities. He has good lateral quickness and he has shown his ability to stay with defender and disrupt shots. He guards the perimeter well and he can stay in front of his man.

He has to work on his free throws this offseason. It was odd, he had good FT numbers in college, but he struggled to have consistency from the line during the season only posting 71.1 FT%. I think with time it'll go up.

He is a great playmaker too. He can drive to the basket, create his own shot and he draws defenses to him so he can kick it out to a guy on the wing if he needs too. He is a good passer too.

He is working at getting used to playing off the ball. He was a PG in highschool and learned as a PG, he also had the ball a lot in college kind of running plays. He improved his ability to play off the ball and run off screens, curls etc, and that will improve with time.

He also will benefit by adding about 5-10 more pounds of muscle, which he is working on doing everyday from what I read. He is already good at finishing through contact, and he likes dunking, so thats cool too.

Bottom line is he showed what he is capable of and we think he has enormous potential. If he keeps at it all the time, I think it translates.

Following are some of his highlights vs the Lakers and the Nuggets.

Hayward leads Jazz to win over Lakers:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaiUkuSIVXM[/youtube]

Posted 34 pts vs the Nuggets:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K6w5DnKdfw[/youtube]

[Hoops Addict]

Nice video.....announcer says " He is going to have a nice, nice, career. "

Hayward has good fundamentals....can pass and shoot well....a good team player who can hit the open man.

If Hayward continue to shoot 40% for threes....he could be a pretty solid player. At 6"8 he is fast enough to guard the 2 spot.....very tall and quick.

I was pissed when we drafted him and he has exceeded my expectations.

I would say Ginobili light. Maybe like Kyle Korver with much better defense, strength, and an inside game.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

I have a hard time labeling him as potentially being the next Manu since Ginobli has been one of the best SG's in the league (right up there with Kobe) for the past 8 years, but they do have some similarities.

Hayward's game reminds me a lot of Jeff Hornacek but at the same time I feel like he is a far more complete player than Hornacek was. He is taller/longer, more athletic, plays better defense and is a better play maker off the dribble. His shooting and movement off ball sure has the smoothness that Hornacek had.

I think his potential is somewhere between Hornacek and Ginobli for now but with his size and unique skill level and athleticism he could be as good as he wants to be.

It's hard to come up with an accurate comparison for him since he has such a unique skill set for his size.

[reapaman]

Hayward has all the physical tools to become a successful wing player in the NBA . He is 6' 8'' 210 pounds with a long winspan.

He is also very underrated as far as his defensive abilities. He has good lateral quickness and he has shown his ability to stay with defender and disrupt shots. He guards the perimeter well and he can stay in front of his man.

Not hating but for future information his wingspan is 6'7.75. The average for some who is listed at his height which is 6'6.75 w/o shoes (6'8 w/ shoes) is a 6'11.4 wingspan. In his lane agility test (lateral quickness) he got a 11.73 and the average for SF's is 11.38 while SG's is 11.31 (the lower the better). On the other hand, he did slightly above average for wings in his sprinting test (end to end speed) and vertical leap.

Just wanted to clear all that up so theres no misconceptions because while he has a above average basketball IQ which he used well at times, he didn't show any good defensive physical ability to me. A good IQ is only gonna take you so far without the right physical tools.

[Litany]

Hayward has all the physical tools to become a successful wing player in the NBA . He is 6' 8'' 210 pounds with a long winspan.

He is also very underrated as far as his defensive abilities. He has good lateral quickness and he has shown his ability to stay with defender and disrupt shots. He guards the perimeter well and he can stay in front of his man.

Not hating but for future information his wingspan is 6'7.75. The average for some who is listed at his height which is 6'6.75 w/o shoes (6'8 w/ shoes) is a 6'11.4 wingspan. In his lane agility test (lateral quickness) he got a 11.73 and the average for SF's is 11.38 while SG's is 11.31 (the lower the better). On the other hand, he did slightly above average for wings in his sprinting test (end to end speed) and vertical leap.

Just wanted to clear all that up so theres no misconceptions because while he has a above average basketball IQ which he used well at times, he didn't show any good defensive physical ability to me. A good IQ is only gonna take you so far without the right physical tools.

Can we see the #'s for Ginobili? It appears they move the same, looking for numbers to confirm. Also do you have a link to these averages you are referring to so we can have a reference. Thanks.

[Jazzfan12]

Hedo Turkoglu (Better defense)

[reapaman]

Can we see the #'s for Ginobili? It appears they move the same, looking for numbers to confirm. Also do you have a link to these averages you are referring to so we can have a reference. Thanks.

Unfortunatly Manu didn't go to the draft combine so he doesn't have any measurements but I'll use Rudy Fernandez as a suitble athletic (not playwise) comparable replacement for Manu since Rudy went to the draft combine. The numbers are on Draft express but I'll post it here:

Gordan Hayward
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Gordon-Hayward-5514/
Rudy Fernandez
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Rudy-Fernandez-22/
Average wingspan
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=averages&year=All
Average Measurements
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All

Rudy's agility is top notch at 10.48 which I assume Manu's is too. His sprint numbers are not as good as Haywards is tho, so end to end Hayward may possibly faster than Manu but its Manu's ability to change direction so fast that makes Manu look like a blur and very hard to stop when he's driving to the basket. Rudy's max Vertical is well above average and Haywards which shows he has a more explosive first step (but Rudy can't jump straight up without a step that well).

[Jazzfan12]

Athletic testing numbers mean nothing. Hayward doesn't have great athleticism, but it's not terrible either. Pretty average to good athlete.

[kamazilla]

Can we see the #'s for Ginobili? It appears they move the same, looking for numbers to confirm. Also do you have a link to these averages you are referring to so we can have a reference. Thanks.

Unfortunatly Manu didn't go to the draft combine so he doesn't have any measurements but I'll use Rudy Fernandez as a suitble athletic (not playwise) comparable replacement for Manu since Rudy went to the draft combine. The numbers are on Draft express but I'll post it here:

Gordan Hayward
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Gordon-Hayward-5514/
Rudy Fernandez
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Rudy-Fernandez-22/
Average wingspan
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=averages&year=All
Average Measurements
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=avepos&year=All

Rudy's agility is top notch at 10.48 which I assume Manu's is too. His sprint numbers are not as good as Haywards is tho, so end to end Hayward may possibly faster than Manu but its Manu's ability to change direction so fast that makes Manu look like a blur and very hard to stop when he's driving to the basket. Rudy's max Vertical is well above average and Haywards which shows he has a more explosive first step (but Rudy can't jump straight up without a step that well).

Have you seen the combine testing? Honestly, those numbers are completely meaningless once a player reaches the floor in the NBA. Everything you need to know is right there in front of you in the context of true game action. Basketball IQ actually does go a very long way in enhancing effectiveness on the defensive end in the form of anticipation. If you know where a player is going, you make up for a great deal more than 7 one hundredths of a second. Seriously, to put any weight on that small of a difference is counter-productive. Hayward has excellent tools and the game understanding to implement them effectively.

I, too, see him as a bigger, much more athletic Jeff Hornacek. He's already a better playmaker and defender than Miller or Korver, and his shooting was great once he felt comfortable in the league. Next season he will really establish himself as a difference maker in the outcome of games.

[MeestR]

hayward is good enough to eventually be the leader of the team. while it does offer a little perspective, i'd rather not get caught up in comparing him to other players. when kobe was new to the league, people were comparing him to jordan. he tried to play like kobe, not like jordan. people didn't start giving him his own identity until a few years down the road. really, all it did was make a fool of the haters. (personally, i dont like kobe, but i can respect his game)

comparing hayward to hedo, or gino might give a little perspective, but to get caught up in comparisons only limits your view and understanding of the player himself.

this will be hayward's team. he is good enough.

[schneiderjazz]

Just wanted to clear all that up so theres no misconceptions because while he has a above average basketball IQ which he used well at times, he didn't show any good defensive physical ability to me. A good IQ is only gonna take you so far without the right physical tools.

Were we watching the same games? Hayward was by far our best perimeter defender. He made some rookie mistakes at times and didn't get a lot of respect from the refs, but he was great at staying in front of his man. Can't say the same for Raja, CJ, AK or even Harris, who was supposed to be great at it.

[babyjax13]

I don't think he'll be as good as Ginobili - but that certainly isn't a slight. My opinion is that he develops into one of the better third options in the league: someone who puts up around 16 4 and 4.

[retiredcoach]

The Jazz rate each player defensively by the game. Those ratings are given to them so they can clearly see where they stand defensively. After mid-season, once Hayward was getting playing time, he was consistently at the top of the defensive ratings--even with the refs and the rookie mistakes.

Hayward is aggressive. He doesn't take crap, physical or verbal from anyone. He dishes it out just as hard and a lot of times harder than he gets it. In the next three years he will become an excellent consistent defender like Stockton, Kirilenko or maybe even Andre Iguodala. I don't see a problem with Hayward and his defense. One of the best things about Hayward's defense is it doesn't reduce his scoring ability.

Hayward will be exactly what the Jazz want him to be. If they want Ginobili, that's what they'll get. If the Jazz want Hayward as a first, second or third scoring option, he'll put up a lot of poinst consistently.

If it were my decision, I would play him 32 to 38 minutes a game starting at the SG and moving to the SF periodically. I would have him as a the second scoring option from the outside in with the inside paint guys being the first option. I would be looking for Hayward to average 13 to 16 pts pg, 4 assists, 4 rebounds and a combination of one block or one steal per game in his second year. By his 3rd or 4th year I'm expecting his scoring numbers to be 16 to 20 pts pg, 4 to 6 assists and 4 rebounds.

Yeah, he that good!

[reapaman]

Were we watching the same games? Hayward was by far our best perimeter defender. He made some rookie mistakes at times and didn't get a lot of respect from the refs, but he was great at staying in front of his man. Can't say the same for Raja, CJ, AK or even Harris, who was supposed to be great at it.

Well we will agree to disagree I guess because I don't see it at all. I mean we can look at this statistically between him and Miller rookie seasons. To make it a fair comparison, I took his last 12 games which was his best stretch of games where he played 25+ min (except one was 20 mins) and his average Defensive rating was 116. He has 113 for the season although thats kinda skewed in his favor because he was pulled out of games early in the year before he can make too many mistakes. In comparison, Mike Miller was 108 which is the same as his season average for his last stretch of 12 games his rookie season. So Statistically and based on the eye test, he is far behind Mike Miller in his rookie season (both were the same age) let alone Manu. Yea he had some nice games defensively here and there but so does monta ellis. And I have to see him perform good offensively on a more consistent basis before I can say he would be a good contributor on offense in the future instead of a good or ok games here and some bad games there.

I hope he does prove me wrong but I seriously dought it.

[retiredcoach]

The Jazz use their own personalized system for defensively rating players. It's based on a number of factors the Jazz consider important and on the player's defensive assignments.

On that system Hayward did very well.

[Paper Face]

Hayward's ceiling is Gheorghe Muresan with a dash of Mookie Blaylock.

Anyone who doubts me can look up the numbers.